Peaches04

Hi all! It's been a LONG (years) time since I got back on here to read posts and to post, but it feels good to be back! Short history - I was married to an alcoholic and have 2 children - with Alanon, counseling and God bless this web site - I divorced him and grew so much spiritually, and was truly at peace. I remarried since then to a great man - we've had our adjustment issues, with children, step children, building a new house, and the list goes on, but we're still standing. However, I seem to be finding myself falling back into some of my old ways of thinking and I HATE it! I smoke cigarettes (I know, it's bad) - and, I did when I met and married him. After we got married, he suddenly got very controlling and just started beating me down about smoking... Thankfully, I was so centered and at peace, it didn't get to me for a long time. I planned to quit, and honestly, I think it would have died a natural death due to I don't like that I do it and it's inconvenient really - but, he was so controlling about it and he used drinking to punish me. In other words, since I hadn't stopped smoking, he would get drunk and be mean to punish me. His thinking was that since he thought smoking hurt him, he would hurt me with drinking. Now, I am open to honest feed back please. But, when you have endured being married to an alcoholic and finally found peace and freedom - is it really a fair correllation to compare cigarette smoking to getting drop dead drunk and mean and angry? Also, I don't even smoke in front of him EVER. I don't even go outside at home and smoke. I feel silly writing this, but it is such a huge ordeal - every single thing he gets mad about somehow comes back related to the fact that I smoke. He doesn't do the get drunk and angry thing anymore - he replaced it with playing poker for a while, but he just quit that too (and not because I asked him to quit either drinking or poker). That's just the background - now is what I am posting about...

Even though he rarely drinks anymore, when he does, I feel so much anxiety, I have to leave. Last night at my daughter's soccer game, I kept thinking one of the dads had been out drinking, and then I realized it was him. I had asked about his day, and he didn't mention anything about going out drinking, so to me - that was even worse because it was a lie by omission. When I asked him about it, he told me he had met one of his employees and they just had a couple of margaritas - and I believe that. The issue was I couldn't believe how anxious I got - and that feeling like I was going to throw up... I haven't felt that way since I used to be married to my ex AH. So, I thought I better get back on here and get back to business.

I read a post on here about doing the steps - I never did those because I really had reached a very peaceful, happy place. I'm not angry or resentful at my ex - in fact, we get along great now. But, I'm wondering if anyone has any insight or understanding as to that feeling of anxiety when my new husband smelled like alcohol. And I hate that I feel that way, when he really didn't even do anything horribly wrong. Although, he did NOT tell me about it, which is wrong to me.

Jadmack25

Hi Peaches, and yes I do think it is the right time to begin working your steps. Can you do so and attend Alanon meetings?
If so, would your husband be ok with this and support your efforts?
This is really unfinished business from your previous marriage, and could impact on your new one, as your old feelings on alcohol are surfacing again.

Seems your H really has a problem with HIS response and reactions to your smoking.
His getting drunk or going out and playing poker was supposed to cure YOU of it?
Does this remind you of some actions by those folk living with A's, trying to cure their A partners? Didn't work for them either.

His becoming controlling as soon as his ring was on your finger, may become a problem for you unless it is handled now. Just how you can do this, I don't know, but I am sure that someone here will be able to give some good suggestions.

God bless

Freedom1990

Is it just me, or does anyone else see big red flags with husband #2?

ItsmeAlice

I agree on the red flags, lots of controlling going on and angry drunk behaviors. Not good.

To the question at hand....I can totally get the anxiety and the stress over the new hubby and alcohol. There is a term for such a visceral reaction to stimuli...PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder).

I never in a million years thought I would consider myself a sufferer of this at all. I was not beaten by my EXABF, but I was verbally harrassed by him and emotionally put thru ringer. Now, there was a lot of emotional trauma that I put upon myself by being addicted to his drama in my own way (codependent).

Once we separated, I found myself having panick attacks, at certain times of the day especially, that really freaked me out. I realized that it was at the time of day when, during our relationship, he would be getting off work and would come home angry and mean if he didn't have money for beer, or he would be out drinking and would come home drunk and looking for an argument later. Either way I had anxiety then every day at a certain time and that feeling just lingered long after we separated.

I commend you for coming back for a tune-up so to speak. The twelve steps are a great place to get reaquainted with that peace and serenity you enjoyed before. Check out the Step Study threads posted on here by CatsPajamas. I believe she has steps one through three going on and I heard step four was coming.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-step-one.html

Welcome back!
Alice

Peaches04

To the question "does anyone see any red flags here"? Yes - I do, and did the minute he had his first freak out about my smoking and got drunk to punish me. I see lots of red flags, and if I had known what I do now - I wouldn't have married him. I met him at a class we were taking and my sister was there too (and his sister) and we all hung out and absolutely adored him. He had been through a bad experience with a wife that cheated on him, so we talked allot about that and the similarity to the effect of that and the pain of being married to an alcoholic. We immediately clicked and hung out every day, and I thought THIS is what love is like. So, if this serves any purpose at all, maybe it's to be an example of how careful we should be in picking someone to spend our lives with and how well you should know somebody before you marry them. I worked so long and hard on finding peace after my first marriage, I am incredulous that I find myself in a similar situation as before - clearly, God still has a lesson for me to learn. I feel better already having posted on this site and regaining my clarity. It is amazing to me how I had started to slip back into that codie space of second guessing myself and doubting my reality. He is a tricky character though, because he rarely drinks, so I struggle with him being an "alcoholic" (not that I have a problem labeling him as that, if he is - I'm just pointing out how that convolutes my perception, because it's so much easier to see clearly when someone is drunk, cheats on you, or does something you just can't ignore and pass off as something else). Back to the red flags - there was a point when he was doing the drinking/punishing me - and I still had my serenity - when I simply told him one day that just to make sure he was clear and understood where I stand - I broke up my family and left the father of my children over drinking, and that I had NO problem doing that again with him, and that he would just be a bad choice I had made. After that, he stopped drinking except on occasion, and there is no more of the craziness that ensued because of that, BUT there is still this controlling and manipulating, and I am just not at peace. My soul tells me it's time to get back to serenity. I don't know how or what that means, but I'm here and that's the first step!

Peaches04

OH - and Alice - thank you! I am getting my masters in psychology, and I would have thought I would have thought of that, but it had never entered my mind. It MAY be PTSD! It certainly presents itself with all those symptoms. I am going to see a counselor and I am going to ask her about that... very interesting. It is the same as the anxiety I used to get when I was young and would see my Dad's car at home (he wasn't an alcoholic, just controlling and abusive) - pattern anyone? LOL!!

Jadmack25

Yes Von, I saw a big red flag and thought " oh God, not again."
Peaches, going to a counsellor is a good step, and I think your feelings do mirror how you were with your dad, and there isa pattern.

You saying to your H "I broke up my family and left the father of my children over drinking, and that I had NO problem doing that again with him, and that he would just be a bad choice I had made", was well done, and he got that message loud and clear.
Now he needs another one re the controlling, and I hope you and your counsellor can put one together for you to let him know that is not acceptable to you.

God bless

GiveLove

Counseling's a wonderful idea. Nothing can clear the waters as well as some time spent with a good healer. It would be wonderful to see you serene and peaceful again, lady!!

And as for red flags...well...controlling behavior always brings up the red flags. Just out of curiosity...was the margarita employee a man or a woman?

ItsmeAlice

Isn't that the way it happens Peaches? If someone else was telling you about the very same issues, you would have considered PTSD being a contributing factor right off the bat, but when it's happening to us and we're right in the middle of it, all the time spent in school goes right out of our heads.

It's kind of like the saying physician heal thyself, right? LOL.

Working things through with a counselor sounds like a great idea. Two heads being better than one and all.

Alice

Peaches04

Thanks everyone for your input. It's so nice to have a place to post my feelings and thoughts and get honest feedback. Yes Jadmack - to your comment, "oh God, not again"...believe me, it is not an easy thing to do to find yourself in the same position I had worked so hard on getting out of and then realizing exactly what you said "oh God, not again"...in fact, those were the exact words in my head I think. Even though this board is anonymous, it took some courage for me to get back on here and post about it! Which shows how horrified I am/was to face the fact I might be back on the roller coaster. And even though he doesn't drink now or get crazy - this control business is just as unhealthy for me!! For example, we had a great night tonight with the kids, etc.. GREAT night. I had not had a cigarette and hadn't even thought about it all night, and then for some reason, he starts in on it again. I said 3 times "you know, this is a discussion we can have with the counselor, because we don't seem to have this conversation well" - and then I found myself having the conversation. I caught myself, but not until I had engaged and was feeling the frustration. I read an article the other day that talked about people who control, and it was very similar to interacting with an alcoholic. No matter what you say, they are not listening and it's like talking to a drunk. They are not open to any other view point or opinio. One other thing I will note that is intersting to me - it is as if God is showing me the other side of my relationship with my ex AH. I am mortified at the way I treated him, now that I see what it feels like when someone treats me that way, as if I am a horrible person who should be so ashamed of myself for smoking. AND it really does just trigger me and make me want to smoke more. I did make ammends with my ex AH a long time ago, for the way I treated him about his drinking, thankfully. But, if I had not already done that, I would be calling him and saying how sorry I was. Even though he was an alcoholic and created and caused me so much hurt, pain, stress, drama, etc....it sickened me to think how my reaction to that fed his dysfunction so much and certainly was in no way part of a solution. It's interesting how life or God works to teach us these lesssons. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with controlling people?? Thanks again!

SHAMAN

Peaches,

In my experience, personally and in relationship, control is the expression of fear... fear of loss, fear of abandonement, fear of all kinds dynamics of the ego. What I've learned about myself is if I find myself being controlling, it really tells me more about my fears. It's also helped me in relationship because I know the same applies for others. If I perceive others to be attempting to control me, it suggests to me their fears rather than something 'mean spirited' about them... and understanding fear is a much more loving state in which to nurture open, honest, gentle dialogue.

With that being said, it's much like addiction in relationship. An individual has to be willing to face their fear. All my perceptions about what someone else may be feeling or fearing has no bearing unless they are ready for their own resolution. Continued efforts to 'nurture' them through the fear, if they remain unwilling, is just as controlling. Just an opinion, but my perception is that your husband's efforts to control you are founded in his fear of losing you and, more deeply, his fear of being abandoned again. So often, it's about our fear of what MAY happen that will result in our feeling of great pain and we strive to avoid that feeling. Again, just an opionion... could be more or less to it.

I think in many cases, control is about fear of vulnerability. It's all about how I think about vulnerability... and I choose to think there is great strength and insight to be gained from making myself vulnerable to my fears. Not always easy, but I remove the strength my fear has over me by facing them.

Many Blessings,
Shaman



Thanks for letting me share this.

Many Blessings,
Shaman

tjp613

Sorry to hijack this thread but I just gotta say this to someone who understands!... My husband's ex-wife has a PhD in Psychology and she is the craziest, most miserable person on the freakin' planet. Seriously. Even her three grown children say it!!!


Ok.... back to the topic at hand!

Zak68

I found myself trying to quit smoking for years. I would do well and then my XAW would drink again and I would "punish" her by smoking since I knew she hated it.

Now that we are split up I tried to quit again and let me tell you it was so much easier. Even after our fight last night I felt this urge to go out and get a pack and I fought it off. I am so much happier that I have that strength now and realize how much of my past smoking was due to stress in my relationship.

Here's to a happy/healthy you and me in the future!

Peaches04

Shaman - I JUST read an article that said pretty much exactly what you said about control and fear. I believe that to be true. In my experience though - it is very much like my ex AH used to be in some ways - although, and GULP - but, I almost think it is worse than my ex AH!!! You know that expression - "it's like arguing with a drunk" - it is very much like that with my new husband when it comes to discussing anything, because it always comes back to it's my smoking. It's the weirdest thing - no matter he does, says, how he acts, it's always attributable the fact I smoke. The correlation sometimes is so far out there, I just look at him like "what in the world??". And of all the irony in the world - we just got some new neighbors and she is a "recovering" alcoholic, who has relapsed 4 times in the 2 months I've known them. God love her - and I mean that - she is the worst case I have ever been exposed too - I pray for her that she finds lasting help, because she is not on a good path. And God love her husband too, beause I know the hell he is living. It's like watching an old scary movie I've lived before. But, the reason I bring this up is that he befriends the husband (and I'm very glad he does, because he is a very good man) - but, then he'll actually compare the fact I smoked a cigarette to my alcoholic neighbor who was found so drunk she could barely stand with her 2 small children at home and had to be whisked away to treatment again. He tries to impart on me how similar I am to her and how much pain he has to go through because of me. Crazy!

Peaches04

OH - and sorry I got side tracked, but thanks Zak68 - I actually bought into his story a couple of times throughout this marriage, and did quit smoking because I started to think that really was the issue. Needless to say, nothing changed while I wasn't smoking, and I started again because of the stress. Not that that is a good excuse, and I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just saying that my smoking is not his issue. I am going to quit smoking, and it's funny you say that because sometimes I think the best way for me to do it is to get away from him and all his drama!

Jadmack25

I was going to ask if you had ever stopped smoking for a while, and if so, had there been any change in his controlling behavior. Your answer came before the question, but it does show that your smoking is Not the trigger, just something he has chosen to pay out on.

If you weren't a smoker, he would have picked something else for a target, your hairstyle, how you drive, cook, clean your teeth even.
For whatever reason, he is as addicted to controlling behavior as much as your XAH was addicted to drink, and like any addict, it is up to him to deal with HIS problem. Of course his problem is also yours since he is putting you under stress and the aggravation does not help you to stop smoking, it keeps it going.

Your mind has been programmed to have reactions to alcohol, and tho you are not with your XAH, or living totally involved with it in your life, the memories and program are still imbedded in you. Perfectly normal and natural, and I would have been surprised if you didn't feel this way when you are faced by events, smells etc that remind you of past trauma. And IT IS trauma.

Perhaps counselling for yourself would help you cope, and later on joint counselling for you both, would be a benefit in that there would be a "neutral umpire" there, instead of just words between yourselves, that have not been much good so far.

You could give Alanon a go also, and this time work the steps and see if that can give you a chance to learn new ways of dealing with his behavior.

Whatever happens, you have come to a place here where you will find concern, help and support.

God bless

Peaches04

Thanks Jadmack - yes, he is very much addicted to controlling - I think that is exactly the proper way to define it. I have suggested to him many times to go to Alanon. He does the behavior where he'll act like a circus animal, and then be so sorry, tell me he's going to a counselor, blah blah - he'll read a book for about 2 chapters.. you know, just long enough for me to see him reading it. I swear to you - I think he has been selling himself this story for so long, he actually believes it. Which is horrifying to me, because I know until he 'gets' that this is not about the smoking - he is never going to change. We've been to see 5 counselors already (I may have mentioned this already), and they have all said the same thing "this is not about smoking - you may hate it, nobody is disputing that, but, your issue is not about smoking". One counselor sent him to an anger management counselor. He did go see him for a while, and then I went to see him together, and he was so inauthentic and his ego was so big - the counselor said that if he couldn't stop the insanity about smoking, he should get a divorce, and he told the counselor that he was. So, I was sitting there and said "you want a divorce then?" and he said "yes". So, I said "I guess we're done here" and left. And of course 10 minutes later once he leaves the counselors, he's on the phone to me saying "I don't know why I said that - I never want to leave you, blah, blah...". He's 100% ego. He gets so intense about it - one counselor even said "Just sitting here listening to you - I want to go have a cigarette, and I don't even smoke". It is that stressful. I'm so not adept at dealing with this anymore, I am starting over from codependent 101 and detaching. We had a great week this week - I've been working on not reacting, etc. and doing a pretty good job. But Sunday, just out of the blue, he has another episode about how my smoking is ruining his life... then ofcourse, he was so upset he had to leave and go play poker and maybe drink - I don't know because I locked the bedroom door and went to sleep at about 10:30, so I didn't see him when he came in. But, I do know the "I'm going to start a fight, so I can have an excuse to go play poker (used to be go drink)" trick. He just left here giving me a big speech about how he is just as guilty as me about not changing. Of course, the only change from me he is interested in is to quit smoking. It's as if that happens, he thinks the sky will open up, a big rainbow will come out, birds will sing - and he will no longer, be the resentful controller anymore. He just said again "does Alanon help you to deal with things you just f*** hate?". And I said "well, do you think people who are married to alcoholics live a happy go life and don't hate that every day of their life is unpredictable?" I think it's fair to say they hate dealing with an alcoholic. So, why don't you go and find out for yourelf".
You are dead on with the if it weren't smoking it would be something else. I believe if I remember correctly at one time when I had quit, it was the way I was dressed and that I was flirting with my ex husband, among whatever else it was. As for me - I've been to Alanon many times - it was my second home during my first marriage. I have tried to find a meeting around here, but the only ones I have found are in the evenings, which doesn't work for me because my kids have activities every night. This board helps allot, and I am going to see a counselor. If I need to though - make no mistake about it, I will find a way to get to some Alanon meetings. I feel like I am on the other side though, with him raging at me that I have a problem with smoking (like I am the alcoholic). And again, I'm not defending it, but seriously - I smoke about 5 cigarettes during the day, when he is not even here. I do not smoke in front of him, my mental state doesn't change obviously, I don't smoke in front of my children, I don't even smoke at my house! All I know is something is seriously messed up in this marriage, and I have to get right. Thank you for all your wisdom - I really appreciate it!!

CAPTAINZING2000

5 smokes huh? A nuisance smoker is what I call that

Wish, I could give you some friendly advice. I just stopped smoking a couple of weeks ago. I'd stopped for several years since, I've stopped drinking.



It would appear though, there's a lot more beneath the surface that needs to be addressed here!!

Peaches04

LOL!! A nuisance smoker would be the right way to describe it... and the only person I think in a normal relationship I would be a nuisance to is me!

CAPTAINZING2000

shh


I'm at work here so, I can't really read every post.

Communication is lacking here I take it. Can you reach an understanding of acceptance??