about visitation...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: AL
Posts: 34
about visitation...
It's only been a week but ah is pressuring me to take our 4 year old overnight. I can understand that he misses her. And I also understand he has a right to see her, spend time with her, etc.
With that said, we are coming off the heels of a pretty crazy month. She has been a witness to some pretty scarey things he's pulled. I told her today, "daddy wants to come get you and have you spend the night with him, that'll be fun" (my attempt at being encouraging) and she said, "no thank you." I said, "I'm sure he'll take you to the park and it'll be just special time between you guy's." she asked if I would be going and I said no but you can still go. She started crying and said she didn't want to go if I didn't because what if he gets mad....broke my heart. I hugged her and said, "Daddy has been very angry, he shouldn't ever scare us like that but he didn't mean to scare you"....again, I was trying to be encouraging and the counselor told me to address it but not to harp on it. she still said no.
I told ah that she wasn't ready, to give it a week or two that we were just coming off the heels of some pretty tramatic stuff. that maybe he should come here for an hour or two and see if she warms up and then ask her and if she says yes, great.
he flipped, "you're going to let a 4 year old decide visitation....you need to make her." I calmly said, "if this were a normal situation like the first day of school or something I lovingly would. However, she has been a witness to some pretty crazy stuff, respect what she is saying for now." he started yelling, "oh so it's all my fault and you think i'm a horrible parent....."
I calmy said, "I didn't know we were talking about you, I thought we were discussing our 4 year old." he starts yelling more and I said he could call me when he could talk calmly.
am I off base? of course this situation has him telling me i'm "holding her over his head" and "using her as a pawn."
he sent a text a bit later telling me he'd never hurt her and how dare I suggest he would.
it's hard to walk away from that....when it comes to the kids, hard not to trigger the "mommy button" inside of me. I want to lash out and say, "what are you talking about? you have been hurting her....you bully her mother, you scream and cuss and throw things in her home, wake her from sleep because of your drunken rages."
I look at that and see myself saying "you" "you" "you". Truth is, *I* stayed in a home where this went on too. I realize my part. I have had enough.
I will not engage, I will n ot engage, I will not engage.
You cannot reason with the unreasonable. You cannot reason with the unreasonable. You cannot reason with the unreasonable....I am saying this over and over.
With that said, we are coming off the heels of a pretty crazy month. She has been a witness to some pretty scarey things he's pulled. I told her today, "daddy wants to come get you and have you spend the night with him, that'll be fun" (my attempt at being encouraging) and she said, "no thank you." I said, "I'm sure he'll take you to the park and it'll be just special time between you guy's." she asked if I would be going and I said no but you can still go. She started crying and said she didn't want to go if I didn't because what if he gets mad....broke my heart. I hugged her and said, "Daddy has been very angry, he shouldn't ever scare us like that but he didn't mean to scare you"....again, I was trying to be encouraging and the counselor told me to address it but not to harp on it. she still said no.
I told ah that she wasn't ready, to give it a week or two that we were just coming off the heels of some pretty tramatic stuff. that maybe he should come here for an hour or two and see if she warms up and then ask her and if she says yes, great.
he flipped, "you're going to let a 4 year old decide visitation....you need to make her." I calmly said, "if this were a normal situation like the first day of school or something I lovingly would. However, she has been a witness to some pretty crazy stuff, respect what she is saying for now." he started yelling, "oh so it's all my fault and you think i'm a horrible parent....."
I calmy said, "I didn't know we were talking about you, I thought we were discussing our 4 year old." he starts yelling more and I said he could call me when he could talk calmly.
am I off base? of course this situation has him telling me i'm "holding her over his head" and "using her as a pawn."
he sent a text a bit later telling me he'd never hurt her and how dare I suggest he would.
it's hard to walk away from that....when it comes to the kids, hard not to trigger the "mommy button" inside of me. I want to lash out and say, "what are you talking about? you have been hurting her....you bully her mother, you scream and cuss and throw things in her home, wake her from sleep because of your drunken rages."
I look at that and see myself saying "you" "you" "you". Truth is, *I* stayed in a home where this went on too. I realize my part. I have had enough.
I will not engage, I will n ot engage, I will not engage.
You cannot reason with the unreasonable. You cannot reason with the unreasonable. You cannot reason with the unreasonable....I am saying this over and over.
Only stepping forward
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
I said the same thing....YOU did hurt her when you did this, YOU hurt her for that, YOU, YOU, YOU. And of course it put up his defenses and the conversation stood still.
I'm not sure even wording it would be different. With my xabf everything was a personal attack on him, regardless of what I said or how I put it. He had to be the victim, even if whatever was being said wasn't being directed at him.
I know what you're going through, wish I had some thoughts for you. Like someone else says here--no IS an answer. If there's not a legal visitation set up, simply tell him no. The offer stands to come over for an hour or two and then ask if she wants to go but ultimately it's her decision. He can take it or leave it.
I'm not sure even wording it would be different. With my xabf everything was a personal attack on him, regardless of what I said or how I put it. He had to be the victim, even if whatever was being said wasn't being directed at him.
I know what you're going through, wish I had some thoughts for you. Like someone else says here--no IS an answer. If there's not a legal visitation set up, simply tell him no. The offer stands to come over for an hour or two and then ask if she wants to go but ultimately it's her decision. He can take it or leave it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 530
If he is still actively drinking....why would you let her go with him anyway? Would that even be safe?
The whole purpose in divorcing these alcoholics is to get away from the madness. Yes, we can as the exspouse, but we also have a job in protecting our children from it as well. I will fight tooth and nail for my daughter to never, ever have to witness her father drinking ever again. She is almost 18 months old and he will be asking for unsupervised time soon, so I will be put to the test.
The whole purpose in divorcing these alcoholics is to get away from the madness. Yes, we can as the exspouse, but we also have a job in protecting our children from it as well. I will fight tooth and nail for my daughter to never, ever have to witness her father drinking ever again. She is almost 18 months old and he will be asking for unsupervised time soon, so I will be put to the test.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Somewhere in there your daughter offered the solution.
she asked if I would be going
It is a lot to ask of her to go from not living with him - to seperating completely from you - and spending time alone with him overnight. Why not transition into visitation.
When he calms down, offer to meet one day at a park or playground. Both of you stay at the play date. You are there for moral support and he will be there to push swings, hold hands, and play. She will see that you are not leaving her alone with him.
You can even meet at restaurants with playgrounds and sit at seperate tables. As long as she sees that you are not abandoning her, she will feel safer. Then eventually she may be ready to go to his house for dinner one night. Two hours maximum and straight back home to you. Increase the time slowly. Overnight is a big deal to a 4 year old. Let her transition.
she asked if I would be going
It is a lot to ask of her to go from not living with him - to seperating completely from you - and spending time alone with him overnight. Why not transition into visitation.
When he calms down, offer to meet one day at a park or playground. Both of you stay at the play date. You are there for moral support and he will be there to push swings, hold hands, and play. She will see that you are not leaving her alone with him.
You can even meet at restaurants with playgrounds and sit at seperate tables. As long as she sees that you are not abandoning her, she will feel safer. Then eventually she may be ready to go to his house for dinner one night. Two hours maximum and straight back home to you. Increase the time slowly. Overnight is a big deal to a 4 year old. Let her transition.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: AL
Posts: 34
that's a good idea pelican.
to whoever asked about his drinking, he isn't actively drinking right now. he wasn't an everyday type of drinker....he'd binge drink a few weekends a month...never during the week, he wouldn't have been able to handle the withdrawl and function at work, he has managed to be successful in his buisness life.
i know he won't drink for a while (he's gone months at a time in the past), he can manage that while he's trying to put everyone back in their little box. whether or not he's really serious this time? I have no idea, until I see it, I won't believe it.
to whoever asked about his drinking, he isn't actively drinking right now. he wasn't an everyday type of drinker....he'd binge drink a few weekends a month...never during the week, he wouldn't have been able to handle the withdrawl and function at work, he has managed to be successful in his buisness life.
i know he won't drink for a while (he's gone months at a time in the past), he can manage that while he's trying to put everyone back in their little box. whether or not he's really serious this time? I have no idea, until I see it, I won't believe it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: AL
Posts: 34
yes, saw one and retained one. He told me all about father's rights, etc. He said the best way to win a custody battle is to put the children first (i assume there will be a custody battle, don't know). And putting them first means making sure they have a relationship with their dad regardless of the problems, etc. He said I can't keep them from him, etc. That's for a judge to decide, not me and keeping them from him will make me look bad.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Freedom1990 
"I must put my child's safety and emotional well-being first."
Click.
End of phone conversation.
Click.
End of phone conversation.
Grand Slam.
A+
Putting young children in hands and care of known drunks is as dumb as letting the kids play on a highway.
Why would you (or anyone -- not picking on Rainbow) do that?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Good thoughts Rainbow.
My personal experience has been that the addicted parent will loose interest in visitation as the addiction progresses. If you acuse and blame the addicted parent for being a lousy parent, not showing up on time, disappointing the children, etc......; you are forcing your will onto the addicted parent and the children will suffer.
If you continue to respond to your estranged spouse in healthy, non-emotional ways (business like), you will be doing what is best for your serenity and your daughter's well being. The addicted parent may even see your positive changes and decide to choose a path of recovery.
If you are reacting to his outbursts, then you are continuing the cycle of chaos you were trying to escape in the first place. Listen to your lawyer and your daughter's counselor.
Freedom is 100% correct. Your childrens safety and emotional well being are your priority. Keep your responses healthy and businesslike, avoid knee-jerk reactions. You need to keep your actions above reproach for any upcoming legal actions.
My personal experience has been that the addicted parent will loose interest in visitation as the addiction progresses. If you acuse and blame the addicted parent for being a lousy parent, not showing up on time, disappointing the children, etc......; you are forcing your will onto the addicted parent and the children will suffer.
If you continue to respond to your estranged spouse in healthy, non-emotional ways (business like), you will be doing what is best for your serenity and your daughter's well being. The addicted parent may even see your positive changes and decide to choose a path of recovery.
If you are reacting to his outbursts, then you are continuing the cycle of chaos you were trying to escape in the first place. Listen to your lawyer and your daughter's counselor.
Freedom is 100% correct. Your childrens safety and emotional well being are your priority. Keep your responses healthy and businesslike, avoid knee-jerk reactions. You need to keep your actions above reproach for any upcoming legal actions.
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
he sent a text a bit later telling me he'd never hurt her and how dare I suggest he would.
In my experience with my AH he faught me tooth and nail to have unsupervised visits with the kids. I have not allowed it. I will not budge. My children's safety is too important. He tried like crazy in the beginning. It took a while (after the seperation) to work our regular visitation schedule out. I am the one supervising visits most times. One time I let his parents (I trust them).
When I think about it this way, that alcohol is his first love. He has not shown me that it isn't (actions). Then it will be put before the children whether he means to or not. You never know when a binge will start...
You must stand firm and keep your boundries in place. If your AH is anything like mine, he will know just what to say to try too make you bend. Remember your children's safety is your ultimate responsibility.
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
Originally Posted by rainbow123
that's a good idea pelican.
to whoever asked about his drinking, he isn't actively drinking right now. he wasn't an everyday type of drinker....he'd binge drink a few weekends a month...never during the week, he wouldn't have been able to handle the withdrawl and function at work, he has managed to be successful in his buisness life.
i know he won't drink for a while (he's gone months at a time in the past), he can manage that while he's trying to put everyone back in their little box. whether or not he's really serious this time? I have no idea, until I see it, I won't believe it.
to whoever asked about his drinking, he isn't actively drinking right now. he wasn't an everyday type of drinker....he'd binge drink a few weekends a month...never during the week, he wouldn't have been able to handle the withdrawl and function at work, he has managed to be successful in his buisness life.
i know he won't drink for a while (he's gone months at a time in the past), he can manage that while he's trying to put everyone back in their little box. whether or not he's really serious this time? I have no idea, until I see it, I won't believe it.
My AH was able to hold his job for a long time too. He was very well respected, well educated.
When I came to these boards someone told me that it will get worse, that the disease will progress. I didn't believe, how could it get any worse?
I KNEW my AH would never do anything to jepardize his work. It was very important to him. Then just a month ago the bottom fell out. He is now suspended from work, and probably facing jail time (I would never have imagined this man going to jail).
This disease is sad and full of surprises ((((hugs))))
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