Puggrinz

So now instead of hearing the famous "I'm going to change, I'm going to stop this. I'm not going to do this the rest of my life" that we have all heard a million times from our addicted love ones mine has now started saying

"I'm never going to change"
"It's never going to change"
"Haven't you gotten it? Isn't it obvious, I'm never going to stop."

So what now?

Is this honesty? Is it resignation to his addiction, giving in to it completely? Is it a way to try and make me go away and leave him alone?

He wants me to go get a divorce "take a lover" whatever, just leave him alone. Now, HE doesn't want to do the divorce, I mean he doesnt want to do the work of getting the papers, sitting down discussing property division, and all that; he wants me to fill out the papers, and he will "agree to whatever I want". He will pay off the bills, he will give me part of his retirement, just "don't fight me". I take this (as he has pulled this same stunt once a year for the past four years (every year we've been married always the same time of year, almost like clockwork)) as once again the same ol' same ol. This is not what distresses me. In fact, getting my annual "I want a divorce letter" was actually a relief, because it showed me that yes things are progressing along like every year when he leaves.
HOWEVER, what has changed is now these statements about how it's never going to change. Of course it's not going to change for the better, this I know because he is doing nothing to arrest his addiction. IT WILL however continue to change for the worse. He is in his mid 50s, with a 20 year heroin addiction and 40 year alcohol addiction and a 10-15 year prescription pill addiction. I know biologically, his body is going to start crumbling at any point.
So--is he getting close to his bottom? Is he just giving up? What do these statements sound like to you guys? My AAH has never said this before. I am used to the 'oh I'm gonna change' shpeel.
I haven't answered him or said anything to him when he has made these statements on three different occassions. I don't know if he is expecting me to say "oh don't say that, you can change, blah blah blah", I believe in you" or what.
Has anyone had an addict say this to you? What if anything did it lead to?
My AAH and I have been seperated for 13 days now. (He left me)I have no way in getting in contact with him (wouldn't know what to say at this point anyway) and basically the ball is in his court to contact us.
I do know that he is fearful that I will get a divorce or take a lover. He has always been fearful that I will leave him because I never had good coping with his using and until here recently by going to alanon to learn correct coping, I screamed yelled, hit and threatened to throw him out all the time. So I am not giving the letter a whole lot of weight at this point, also he wrote it when loaded, can tell from his handwriting.
I am concerned about this "it's never gonna change" talk. This is very unlike him.
I am welcome to thoughts and ideas. I just don't know if he is really being honest finally, or if it is another type of manipulation, or if I should discount it along with everything else he says because I don't believe anything he says anyway.
Actually in a way it's a relief to finally hear him say this--instead of the regular I'm gonna change thing. But I don't know what it means or how to interpret it.

Ann

Pug, we never know when they will quit, if at all, and neither do they. Addiction just has that kind of hold on them until they find the pain of using is greater than the fear of stopping.

They promise they will quit, and then don't, so saying he will never quit doesn't mean he won't, it just means he is lost in his addiction right now.

Sadly you can do nothing about his addiction, but you can do something about how it affects you. I don't know if you go to meetings, but if not then now might be a good time to try them. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It may be the greatest gift you ever gave yourself.

Hugs

outtolunch

Back when I was consumed with all things addiction and finding the magic cure for my daughter, I happened upon a forum for opiate users.

Some of the more "mature" frequent posters are " lifers". They have quit more times than they can remember and relapsed. They have been to rehab and in and out of 12 step programs. They acknowledge the lying, stealing and manipulation. Most have some prison time. Their lives have been primarily unstable and they lost all relationships that once meant something to them.

They acknowledge they are slaves to it and STRONGLY discourage others from trying it on for size or believing they can be weekend warriers. There is however, sense of dignity. They did it their way and accept responsibility for the outcome.

I respect them for that.

outtolunch

And you have been married to him for the last eight years, right?

Can you accept him for what he is, not what you want him to be?

URMYEVERYTHING

It is what it is Puggs.

So what now? The questions should be so what is in store for YOU now that he has said these things? Are you willing to ride this with him?

He sounds hopeless and helpless as all addicts do. Is this his bottom? No one knows that more than him.

The key phrase is the last statement in which he says "Haven't you gotten it? Isn't it obvious, I'm never going to stop."

Sounds like he's not going to stop. Looks like there are decisions to be made.

I'm sorry you are going through all of this but instead of worrying about HIM and HIS bottom, where is your bottom in dealing with all of this? When will you say enough is enough? How much more will you be willing to tolerate. If he's been in addiction this long... what are the chances he will change?

sailorjohn

IMO, it's just another attempt to manipulate. I'm sure you're going to hear others tell you that they have also heard their addicts make the exact same statements.

URMYEVERYTHING

This is quite simple... translated to.... "I'm not going to stop using and as long as you kept nagging me too.. I will distance myself away from you in order to use." "I'd rather use in peace then to come around someone who doesn't want me to."

Thus, the reason for him being okay with you filing a divorce. Of course, he won't follow through on the paperwork... using is WAY MORE important to him.

You have to remember PUGGS, his drugs are priority now. Nothing he says or does makes sense.

I would get involved in AlAnon or NarAnon and start taking care of you! Leave him be to his own devices... he will find his way... and if not, he chose that for HIMSELF.

You are in my prayers PUGGS. This has to be rough.

Cath1029

I get the same comments, "You knew who I was when you met me," and it's the truth. I tried to make him into something he wasn't and didn't want to be.

RedTailHawk

I did hear this from AH during a long and painful marriage. I had asked him for a divorce over and over and he made my life pretty unpleasant to contain me...and bc I was not in recovery yet, I caved in to avoid his anger and pain....

I will always remember the day that he set me free with the words - "GO, it won't change." I was scared...I was for a moment ready to say. "ah honey you can do it - I will BE THERE FOR YOU!"...but he didn't know what I soon realized...THIS TIME I had been in recovery and THIS TIME I knew where I stood and that I was going to take care of ME...I was strong enough to let go. And I did all the leg work and I am making it happen now for me. What once would have been another call to action (can you hear the trumpet playing and see my savior wings appear?) - and manipulation - THIS TIME his words become my freedom.

I am not saying leave. That is not my call. What I echo - is take care of you. Stand in YOUR recovery. It is through your work on you, that you will be able to answer this question for yourself. Was he trying to manipulate me? I think he was...and I think it was my HP's way of giving me an answer to my prayers.

I hold you close in my prayers today...take care of you. Recover for you. Re-discover you. The answers and the right actions for you will come.

Learn2Live

Hi Puggrinz,
Sounds like normal active addiction talk to me. If I were you, I'd try to stop focusing on him and figuring out what is going on with him, and start focusing more of your energies on yourself. When they are addicted like this, they are delusional. They change their mind every other day. You drive yourself crazy trying to relate to crazy people.

Take care of yourself.

teke

my ah said this too from time to time. i think addicts will do and say whatever they think might work to their advantage.

translation:
never gonna stop so if you not gonna except my drug use, go ahead and get divorced. it think he's quacking. maybe since him saying he's gonna quit stop working, maybe he's trying to come at you from a different angle.

i agree with the others focus on you, i believe if not now, it will come a time that he will change that tune, but how long you wait depend on the choices you make for yourself. the ball is in your court, not his. maybe all of this is gods way of helping you get to the place he wants you to be.

i'm willing to bet that he'll eventually come up with something else if this don't ruffle your feathers. so try to take the time and decide what you want to do and work toward that goal. i'm praying for both of you

outonalimb

Pug,

You can't reason with an addict. And you won't get anywhere trying to climb into their head and figure out what they're doing...why they say what they say...why they do what they do. You'll only drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the 'unfigurable'.

What do YOU want?
Thats the only thing you need to figure out.

IPT

maybe not what you want to hear but a co-worker of mine had a husband with addiction issues. She told him "drugs or me". He told her he wasn't going to change and that he was going to die doing drugs. They are seperated now and she is happier.

Puggrinz

Thanks everybody. You have given me some real insight and all of you are right. It doesn't matter what he means by it, probably some manipulation, but what does matter is WHAT am I going to do. I do need to get focused on me--don't try and figure out his crazy thinking, cause you're right--who can??
So I am new to this recovery for me thing. I have one Alanon meeting under my belt, will go again this monday. Doing lots of reading, trying to educate myself. I just get outta balance, as much progress as I am making, I have a lot more to go. But, I am doing better, because usually when he pulls this crap I end up in bed in the fetal position unable to function or move, waiting for his call so I can beg him back. Didn't do that this time, found a meeting, found this site. So I am determined to get well FOR ME.
Thanks guys for helping me get my head back on straight, to realize that it doesn't matter what he meant by any of what he said. It's only important what he does and right now he's using. He left his family to use, that was HIS choice. Now I get to choose when and if I will ever be ready or willing to live again like that. I don't think so. I'm glad to be out of that part of it. I know it's not over, I know I have a long way to go, but I am thankful I get the chance to do it. I get a second chance at a sane life. I just have to reach out and grab it! Thank you all again so much, you guys all rock! And you have no idea how much you help me. Keep up the honesty! I need it!

Learn2Live

Don't worry about spending half the day, or all day for that mater, in bed. Your brain and your body have probably been so stressed for so long, they are telling you to STAY in bed. After all that stress you have to withdraw. Just make sure you are aware of what you are doing and you'll be okay.