Christians, I have a question.
Galatians 5:13
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
Christians, I have a question.
Question:
If someone believes they have always turned their will and their lives over to the care of God as they understood Him, is this step necessary? <or>
Can this step simply be then that the person turns their sober life over to God?
I believe in God. I surrender to Him. I trust Him. I know that He has put sobriety in my path for a reason/purpose. I am accepting sobriety. Each night that I lay my head down to sleep I am smiling up at God before my prayers start - and the best part is (or the best feeling is) that I know He is smiling right back down.
If someone believes they have always turned their will and their lives over to the care of God as they understood Him, is this step necessary? <or>
Can this step simply be then that the person turns their sober life over to God?
I believe in God. I surrender to Him. I trust Him. I know that He has put sobriety in my path for a reason/purpose. I am accepting sobriety. Each night that I lay my head down to sleep I am smiling up at God before my prayers start - and the best part is (or the best feeling is) that I know He is smiling right back down.
Miracles Happen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,977
For me even though I believed I had already turned my will over, and surrendered, I never followed any direction. It was suggested that if I wanted to stay sober I needed to take the steps in the order they were in. With Step 3, I started saying the 3rd step prayer every day. It was at that time that I realized that I hadn't really completely turned my will over. So to your question, for me it would have to be yes, it is necessary.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Tammy,
I started working with a new guy last night. He said he understood that he was powerless and life was unmanageable, so he had that first step down cold. I asked him to humor me and see what the BB said about it.
After an hour and a half, I got to witness this guy visibly resonate with a force of realization he had never experienced before. Magic.
In your case, are you free of what's talked in the book for Step 3? Have you experienced that, or have you just read the step and agreed with it? What is Step 3 about? There is real benefit to having an experience with the steps.
I'm not a fan of cliche's, but taking the steps off the wall tends to have off the wall results.
Please let me know if I can help.
I started working with a new guy last night. He said he understood that he was powerless and life was unmanageable, so he had that first step down cold. I asked him to humor me and see what the BB said about it.
After an hour and a half, I got to witness this guy visibly resonate with a force of realization he had never experienced before. Magic.
In your case, are you free of what's talked in the book for Step 3? Have you experienced that, or have you just read the step and agreed with it? What is Step 3 about? There is real benefit to having an experience with the steps.
I'm not a fan of cliche's, but taking the steps off the wall tends to have off the wall results.
Please let me know if I can help.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
Step 3 does not say to turn your will and life over to God. It says made a decision to do this. The actual turning your will and life over to your HP comes as we work the rest of the steps.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
As a Christian I had made that decision to turn my will over...many years ago and quite a ways before learning about recovery. For me it wasn't a one time event that would cover all the bases...so to speak.
For me Step One will forever be about making that decision on a continual basis; to as a former pastor said..."know it in my knower" and to learn from others who have ESH exactly how to apply it to my life in order to experience changes in myself.
If I'm totally honest with myself (and with others) I need to recognize that there are areas, situations and times of my life where I fail to make the decision to turn over my will---I start with Step One every day.
For me Step One will forever be about making that decision on a continual basis; to as a former pastor said..."know it in my knower" and to learn from others who have ESH exactly how to apply it to my life in order to experience changes in myself.
If I'm totally honest with myself (and with others) I need to recognize that there are areas, situations and times of my life where I fail to make the decision to turn over my will---I start with Step One every day.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
There is some really great advice here...the book gives specific directions for each step, I would hate to see someone die of alcoholism because they "got the God thing down".
as keith said -- the experience is much different than the "idea"
dg said - "the decision"-- what does the book say about this? If you cannot answer, I would suggest reading it very closely.
Tommy said - do what the book says.
All are aboslutely right.
Christian or not christian, I would pray that you become open to god's will..even if its not what you "think" it is. The set aside prayer was critical for me until I was making a list of people I had harmed....
I have seen too many people get drunk because they thought they knew god ~ that knowledge or perceived knowledge is very dangerous. They didn't want to look at the possibility that they had been wrong all along, that god wasn't "out there".
I found it true that god was found deep down inside me, not on a cloud smiling down. (I am not belittling the picture you painted, it was quite nice ~ I just think its a little off from what AA's third step is about).
as keith said -- the experience is much different than the "idea"
dg said - "the decision"-- what does the book say about this? If you cannot answer, I would suggest reading it very closely.
Tommy said - do what the book says.
All are aboslutely right.
Christian or not christian, I would pray that you become open to god's will..even if its not what you "think" it is. The set aside prayer was critical for me until I was making a list of people I had harmed....
I have seen too many people get drunk because they thought they knew god ~ that knowledge or perceived knowledge is very dangerous. They didn't want to look at the possibility that they had been wrong all along, that god wasn't "out there".
I found it true that god was found deep down inside me, not on a cloud smiling down. (I am not belittling the picture you painted, it was quite nice ~ I just think its a little off from what AA's third step is about).
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
I sponsor a priest. A Jesuit with two masters degrees and a pHd in subjects like sacred scripture. Yet he couldn't stay sober.
After he took the steps he says that he used to know about God but now he knows God.
After he took the steps he says that he used to know about God but now he knows God.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Good point Jim.
I'd first like to welcome the OP and then ask a question; how long are you sober? Why are you sober? I'd like to get an idea of what kind of drinker/alcoholic you are. In otherwords, are you like me? Identification.
So... if you're an alcoholic of the hopeless variety... let's say... and you seek sobriety, how do you plan to go about achieving and maintaining sobriety. Sorry about using the word "maintaining" there. I don't like the word so much, but just couldn't think of a better one.
I believe A.A. to be a set of instructions... to get and stay sober and as Jim says, to know God. I think God loves me sober or drunk. I don't believe that I'm any different than most people. I have free will and when I'm not in A.A. doing steps, I cannot get and stay sober.
I haven't been able to just go straight to God and get and stay sober. Not even close. So... despite all of my convictions about God prior to A.A., how effective could they have been if I was killing myself with booze?
To me, the 3rd Step is me taking responsibility for my own sobriety, the path to get there, the decision to seek God from here on out, and to do each and every one of these 12 steps as the A.A. book spells them out.
Hope that's helpful and at least has you considering some things.
I'd first like to welcome the OP and then ask a question; how long are you sober? Why are you sober? I'd like to get an idea of what kind of drinker/alcoholic you are. In otherwords, are you like me? Identification.
So... if you're an alcoholic of the hopeless variety... let's say... and you seek sobriety, how do you plan to go about achieving and maintaining sobriety. Sorry about using the word "maintaining" there. I don't like the word so much, but just couldn't think of a better one.
I believe A.A. to be a set of instructions... to get and stay sober and as Jim says, to know God. I think God loves me sober or drunk. I don't believe that I'm any different than most people. I have free will and when I'm not in A.A. doing steps, I cannot get and stay sober.
I haven't been able to just go straight to God and get and stay sober. Not even close. So... despite all of my convictions about God prior to A.A., how effective could they have been if I was killing myself with booze?
To me, the 3rd Step is me taking responsibility for my own sobriety, the path to get there, the decision to seek God from here on out, and to do each and every one of these 12 steps as the A.A. book spells them out.
Hope that's helpful and at least has you considering some things.
Galatians 5:13
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
There were a lot of questions and feedback in here that will have me thinking for a few days. I appreciate everyone's well thought out and caring responses.
These replies have helped me realize the 12-steps aren't just sentences that I read and apply as I see fit. There is a real program. Please don't throw tomatoes at my ignorance. I have the "Big Book", but could barely get past the first 2 chapters - yawn.
McGowdog:
1. What is an OP?
2. I have been sober 5 days (this time).
3. I am sober because after 6 months of sobriety in 2008 (I went to Schick Shadel Hospital in Seattle), I relapsed although I didn't think of it as a relapse at the time. I just thought I could moderate.
4. What kind of drinker am I? I couldn't tell you the last day I didn't have at least 6 - 8 glasses of wine (besides the last 5 days). I don't think I had a sober day this year - if I did it was just one or two. I never remember going to bed. I wake up and the last (however many) hours are just gone. I can't believe I manage to put PJs on every night!
5. I plan to maintain sobriety with free will, AA meetings (which I haven't started yet, first one is Saturday at 8pm), one-on-one counseling, independent learning, and surrendering every day (maybe hour) to God.
These replies have helped me realize the 12-steps aren't just sentences that I read and apply as I see fit. There is a real program. Please don't throw tomatoes at my ignorance. I have the "Big Book", but could barely get past the first 2 chapters - yawn.
McGowdog:
1. What is an OP?
2. I have been sober 5 days (this time).
3. I am sober because after 6 months of sobriety in 2008 (I went to Schick Shadel Hospital in Seattle), I relapsed although I didn't think of it as a relapse at the time. I just thought I could moderate.
4. What kind of drinker am I? I couldn't tell you the last day I didn't have at least 6 - 8 glasses of wine (besides the last 5 days). I don't think I had a sober day this year - if I did it was just one or two. I never remember going to bed. I wake up and the last (however many) hours are just gone. I can't believe I manage to put PJs on every night!
5. I plan to maintain sobriety with free will, AA meetings (which I haven't started yet, first one is Saturday at 8pm), one-on-one counseling, independent learning, and surrendering every day (maybe hour) to God.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by jimhere 
After he took the steps he says that he used to know about God but now he knows God.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by tammy711
I have the "Big Book", but could barely get past the first 2 chapters - yawn.
Originally Posted by tammy711
McGowdog:
1. What is an OP?.
1. What is an OP?.
Cool dog btw.Thank you for coming in here and giving us some back story. Your qualifications are good enough for me. But they need to suit you. For someone with just 5 days sober, you've got a heck of a good start. I'm going to tell you something that I saw RobB mention earlier; it's something I haven't heard in a while, but very true; You never have to drink booze ever again.
I hope you check out this path and I hope it works for you. You may come from a religious background and that's fantastic. Hopefully in sobriety, you'll be able to utilize that and get so much more from it and have a helpful and happy life.
There is work to be done though. If you look at my book, you'll see that the pages from title page to about 88 have dirty edges... almost black. The pages from 89 to 164 are pretty used up too. You ought to read Dr Bob's Nightmare too. You may really relate to that one. I think it's on about page 171 or 192 for the 1st edition.
Welcome! Got a brother out in Bradenton.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by dgillz
Step 3 does not say to turn your will and life over to God. It says made a decision to do this. The actual turning your will and life over to your HP comes as we work the rest of the steps.
Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
"I believe in God. I surrender to Him. I trust Him. I know that He has put sobriety in my path for a reason/purpose. I am accepting sobriety. Each night that I lay my head down to sleep I am smiling up at God before my prayers start - and the best part is (or the best feeling is) that I know He is smiling right back down."
Big difference between belief and experience.
God is more than an abstract idea, more than an imaginary friend. God has to be a little bigger than MY Little Buddy HP who watches out for me and who lives up there and out there and whom I'll get to meet somewhere down the road and who bails me out of a jam now and then.
Big difference between belief and experience.
God is more than an abstract idea, more than an imaginary friend. God has to be a little bigger than MY Little Buddy HP who watches out for me and who lives up there and out there and whom I'll get to meet somewhere down the road and who bails me out of a jam now and then.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central California
Posts: 3
"Each night .......". This seems to be a very important key for me. I have long beleived in God. Even when I drank, I found myself pounding on the bar, crying out to God. But it wasnt until I learned about step three, that the light bulb came on. And now, even 14 years later, "Each night", I make a renewed decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God.....
And thank you for reminding me of that.
It doesnt matter if you have five days, or five years, I remind myself that this is a one day ata time program and I try to live it that way. Thats how it works for me.
May God bless you and may he give you the peace and serenity you are looking for.
Sam B.
And thank you for reminding me of that.
It doesnt matter if you have five days, or five years, I remind myself that this is a one day ata time program and I try to live it that way. Thats how it works for me.
May God bless you and may he give you the peace and serenity you are looking for.
Sam B.
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