EndOfPinkCloud

Ago – you are a mind reader. I cannot believe this - this VERY topic has been on my mind for the last two days. Because I am doing the same **%&!!? thing right now. Somebody stop me! I seriously do need help on this topic, so rather than hijack Ago’s very well written thread on this, I started my own. PLEASE tell me how to stop this behavior. How do I stop having expectations from people to act like normal, helpful, healthy human beings when to do so is beyond their capability? What is wrong with me? I WANT to stop going to the hardware store for bread, want to stop pushing that square peg into the round hole, but how do I stop this behavior of mine??

I finally left my "in faux recovery for five years" dry drunk RAH. I lived abroad, so it was no easy task to leave and it took me a very long time to find the courage to do this, which is part of the reason why I stayed so long. Anyway, I have finally returned to my home country and I am having to live with my mother for the short term. I didn't expect much help from her and I try to tell myself every 5 seconds how grateful I am for the free roof over my head. But WOW, I am experiencing alot of the same behaviors from her that I received from my RAH. My mother is not an alcoholic, nor was my father – but I am pretty certain now that her father was an alcoholic just based upon some of the behaviors she exhibits. But, does it really matter what the underlying causes of her behavior are?? The bottom line is I would never treat my daughter, or any other human being the way she treats me.

Anyway, I can SEE, CLEARLY, by me having to put up with my mother's behavior as a child, how and why I stayed in such a bad marriage alcoholic situation with my RAH for so long and how I got into the situation in the first place. SHE taught me to put up with bad behavior and a rollercoaster emotional situation, she loves drama, and she expects me to stick around and be a good kid while she throws me crumbs – just like AH. Her words say she will help and then her actions are that she pulls the rug out from underneath me. Again, just like AH. For the short term I have no place else to go (until I get a job, then I’m leaving skid marks out of this joint) so I am indeed forced to put up with this.

Here’s where I need help. I got the detachment thing down by practicing with AH, so I'm OK on that. But, how do I drop my expectations of not only my mother, but my sister as well (also local) of providing me any sort of help with this awful, painful, excruciating situation I am in. I have spelled it out for them (mother and sister): I am grieving loss of a relationship, loss of living in a place that I loved, loss of the incredible and supportive friends that I had (and still do, but they are far away), leaving my possessions behind, looking for a job, looking for a car, looking for a place to live, trying to still be a balanced parent to our daughter (who is with me). I am crying all the time. Dammit, I NEED help to navigate this &^*%!? season of my life. I KNOW I will make it through this, but can’t someone at least hold my hand while I cry? So again, how do I drop my expectations of having any sort of help during this awful time in my life? I feel like if I could get rid of any expectations on my part I would stop being so disappointed in them. As I mentioned, this is the same behavior I repeated with AH ad nauseum. Does this make sense?

What is wrong with me for wanting and needing help? For so long, FOR SO LONG, my needs went unmet in my alcoholic marriage. I am seeking to change my life. It was giant step forward to finally leave my 14 year marriage. Please tell me how to stop going to the hardstore for bread. I must stop being disappointed in those around me so I can focus my energy on myself to heal and move on and to find a job!! This toxic situation is destroying me even further and i didn't think that was possible.

P.S. Yes, I go to counseling and Al-Anon so I am actively seeking help this way. Yes, I am a little bit crazed right now. Please send practical suggestions I so that intellectually my heart can align with my mind.

Thank you for reading my post.
Pink runs to go get another tissue and a towel to wipe off the keyboard. Sniff.

HanahGoodness

EndofPinkCloud,
I am definitely going through my own issues right now about whether to leave my AH and file for divorce, or stay and watch him try to pick up the pieces of his toxic behavior. However, I find myself getting better when I read books about how to detach and find my own happiness again on my own. I understand your feelings of how unfair it is that you were there for people and now where are your supports? But, it seems to me that you can start to build relationships that will support you now. Apparently those you guided all these years are unable to help you. Find a support in Al-anon, find a support in a church group (easier said than done, I know) find a support in a local volunteer organization. Sometimes family can't help because they are ill equipped to share their emotions even with people they love.

You mention counseling. Does your counselor have a support group rather than individual counseling? Maybe you could have one session a week with support group and one with just him/her.

Keep posting here...even this is a support group. I care about you!

Chrysalis123

When I was crying non-stop and had no one to support me where I lived, and was under tremendous stressors like divorce and grieving my counselor recognized I was depressed. I went on anti-depressents for awhile and they helped me tremendously.

You will get through this bit by bit and day by day. I know I had behavior that I was trying to change that I had developed as a child. I had coping mechanisms that worked well when I was a child but as an adult were dysfunctional. I took time for me to change. The first thing I had to develop was awareness. It seems you are doing that.

What can you do today that will be fun for you?

sandrawg

You say you're in al-anon-do you have a sponsor?

I would also suggest...yoga and/or meditation.

Meditation will give you some tools to remain peaceful and calm when things start feeling out of control for you.

With me, what escalates that out of control thinking are me letting my negative thoughts scamper around like little roaches.

Practice meditating, to keep those scampering thoughts in line and shut off your brain. It's amazing how much it helps!

gowest

Pink what a great post.

I too repeated many patterns of my childhood relationship with my mother in my marriage (will soon be divorced but hitting a major legal snag so I'm sort of stuck for the moment) and other relationships.

I have great friends but they also are not always near to hold my hand.

One thing I will say, is to give yourself some time. I have been separated for over a year and a half and I will say it has taken my until recently to find my balance. In the beginning I was so angry at myself and I had to learn to be able to change my expectations of myself too. To accept that it was ok to not be where I wanted to be, that I am a work in progress.

I am a very psychologically aware person according to my shrink, but putting what you know into action can take time and is hard to do when you are in a middle of a crisis.

I will say to please budget for some long distance telephone calls. One of my biggest pillars of support is a friend who I see rarely but talk to almost every day. It does help.

Posting here will help.

Focusing on a small task that you feel you can get done vs. all the huge roadblocks in your life can help too.

Reminding yourself before you go to someone and ask for a need to be met:
Do I think this person can meet this need?
If the answer is maybe, ask but be prepared for disappointment.
If the answer is a definite no, don;t even bother asking.

I have found that some "strangers" have been more helpful in a crisis than family, event hough they "mean" well.

I'll post again if I come up with any other suggestions.

Oh, and I did learn how to bake my own bread, literally.
An Aunt who has been in AA for 23 years gave me a very simple recipe for no-knead bread which you can find on the NYtimes web-site. My home smelling of freshly baked bread really helped relieve stress.

Aromatherapy at it's best. -- cheap too!!

sandrawg

Me too-I read a lot, too-I keep reading Melody Beattie's book OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER lol

freya

My practical suggestion: Step work -- especially prayer and meditation so that you can feel safe and at peace in the midst of all this change and chaos.

So:

Where are you in your Step work?????

What's up with your sponsor? Have you asked her the same questions you are asking strangers here on SR? If not, why not?

How is your relationship with your HP??????

Working the Steps consistently and thoroughly with a good sponsor (i.e. someone whose story you relate to and whose recovery work you admire and whose life seems to be pretty much at where you are looking to go and who will not co-sign b*llsh*t) will result in your learning "how not to go to the hardware store for bread"....actually, in my experience, it eventually result in your having no desire whatsoever to go to the hardware store for bread. There is no easier, softer way. There are different ways, but if they are ways that are going to work, they will, at some point and in some fashion, require the same kind of work that the Steps require.

And doing this work will also result in your having a strong relationship/connection with your HP. This is a connection that is always available to you for strength, wisdom, love, support and protection -- so that you do not need to try to get it from sources that do not have it to give -- and a relationship that allows you to truly appreciate your own value and preciousness, and thus, know that you deserve to be treated right and that you have every right to distance yourself from people who are incapable of treating you that way.

freya

Ago

What a great question...I mean truly...How DO I stop going to hardware stores?

I have given this a lot of thought, and a lot of answers have gone through my mind, work on myself etc as I get healthy I attract healthier people blah blah

What does that all mean though?

Practicing alcoholics have a thing where in order to practice their addiction they feel "unique", they feel "special" and that "the rules" may apply to other people but not to them.

They are "terminally unique'

I think this is the basic premise of "going to a hardware store for bread" is every time I do so it's because I feel "special", I feel they may treat others this way. but not me, they will change for me because I am special, I am different, the rules don't apply to me, our relationship is special.

Me, or this particular relationship, is terminally unique for some reason, so I go to the hardware store for bread again and again.

My father told me when he was five, his father stood below him with his arms stretched out and said "Jump. jump to me son" and when he jumped his father stepped aside and let him hit the ground, looked at him on the ground crying and said "never trust anyone" and walked away

My father said to me he would change that, he would say "trust everyone"

"trust everyone to follow their nature, what they do to other people they WILL do to you, guaranteed, you need to remember you aint special"

When I went a few years ago to "help" my family, or "rescue" them, I KNEW my mother ran her life like a business, that she would take from people around her in order to support her alcoholic husband and junkie daughter, that she was ruthless in this, so when she called and asked for my help I sold my business, gave up my home, my girlfriend, all for some promises my mother gave me, all my friends said "Andrew, get it in writing, go to a lawyer and get all this writing"

I said "This is my mother she would NEVER do this to me, she may do X, Y, and Z but she will NEVER leave me high and dry, she will stand by my side, she won't drop me, it may not be how I think, but bottom line is she is my mother, our relationship is special, so I don't need anything in writing"

Well, what do you know, after working for a few years, running her business while supporting her, her husband, her daughter and her granddaughter until she retired, after she didn't need me any more she cut me loose.

She dropped me. She treated me as she treated everyone else in her life including her brothers and her own mother. I was not, in fact, special. When she was done using me, I was no longer important.

Trust everyone.......to follow their own nature.

Even my own mother.

Bitter lesson.

So, according to Dr Phil, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

They ALWAYS give you the information if you listen closely, not the lies they tell you, but their past actions with others, and they ALWAYS give you the information by watching their actions, not what they say.

for example, If I am with a spouse that repeatedly promises to quit drinking but doesn't, I have the information, she chose alcohol over me, it's clear cut and right there, in "black and white"

or

I am with a GF/BF that has a history of cheating on her husband, and she stays out all night once a week(end) every week, she is unavailable until 1AM on weeknights, what information is she giving me? Do I believe I am different and special, and that she loves me more then she loved her husband? What conclusions do I draw from this? Do I listen to what she says or watch her actions, which is she stays out all night once a week and out until after midnight on weeknights.

or

If I am with a spouse that is unable to tell the truth, which I have experience with, trying to get these things is like trying to get a Pig to sing, Pigs can't carry a tune, all they do is get frustrated with you and you get angry at the pig.

It's not their fault, it's mine for repeatedly going back to a dry well when the truth is I know better.

So bottom line I think is to learn to trust our gut, learn to watch someones actions rather then listen to their words, watch for "red flags" and LISTEN and PAY ATTENTION to those red flags, take action according to the red flags.

I have finally begun to learn that setting boundaries is NOT standing in front of someone telling them my boundaries, or telling them what I need or want in a relationship, but setting boundaries to MYSELF, and then acting on them.

That, for me, is why going to a hardware store for bread over and over was no different then the active alcoholic picking up a drink and saying "it's going to be different this time and here's how" As an active alcoholic you always think if you do it differently somehow the results will be different this time, that is IDENTICAL to my thinking when I "go to the hardware store for bread' it will be different this time, because I am special, because this person loves me, If I can only say it correctly they will be able to hear me, if I only try harder, if only I am nicer, if only I push them harder, if only I "set a stronger boundary" if only if only if only if only

When an alcoholic picks up a drink, they always lose, when I go to the hardware store for bread I always lose.

This person will treat me exactly the way they treat everyone else in their life.

If they are a drinker, they will keep drinking, if they take advantage of people, they will take advantage of you, if they cheat on others, they will cheat on you.

I am not special

The rules apply to me

You stop going to the hardware store for bread by not going to the hardware store for bread, not by trying harder, or differently....no matter who it is.

I divorced my family.

My sister, my mother, my grandparents, my uncles

As it stands now I will never talk to any of these people for the rest of my life.

They don't know where I live, and I intend to keep it that way.

There are some people that are just plain harmful, people with an inability to tell the truth.

Some people aren't just a dry well, they are a poison well.

Every time I go to the "hardware store" or go back to the poison or dry well, it's easier to go back the next time, my self respect is less, my self esteem is less, I get addicted to the poison well and the hardware store.

So I stop going to the hardware store the same way I quit drinking.

One day at a time

Sometimes, one minute at a time.

If I drink, I not only go insane, I lose, the same is true of the hardware store, the thing I have learned is I am not trying to NOT go to the hardware store, I am trying to win.

I am trying to get bread there.

Just give up hardware stores I think is what I need to do. They are harmful to me. Not go to hardware stores and try to win.

Bernadette

Acceptance. Acceptance. Acceptance.

Like Ago said, when people show me who they are and how they operate I strive to accept that. Not change it, or think I it will be different this time, I must accept it.

So if I find I am struggling with expectations, with thinking people really should be doing this or that, etc, it is a red flag for me that there is something I am refusing to accept. Back to acceptance!

I also must accept myself, as I am, and accept the responsibility of caring for myself. If I am surrounding myself with people who have shown me they are unable to support and help me in they way I want or need then I must accept that I have to create the support system I need to heal myself and not make my progress difficult and dramatic by continually bemoaning the reality that the people I wish would help me are unable to.

Serenity prayer really helps with this!

Good luck Pink - and be gentle with yourself, you've made a big change physically by moving back home but the mind takes so much longer to change!

peace-
b

coyote21

Thanks Ago, boy is that ever a swat in the head I needed! It 'splains A LOT.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Ago

I think another aspect of this is when we say the word "love" it conveys a concept individual to us, and we want the other person to give us that concept of love. We want the bread we learned growing up, we want our own concept of bread.

Like, I go to the hardware store for bread, but what I have in mind is a baguette of fresh sourdough, but the "hardware store" gives me a loaf of nine grain.

Then I say but I wanted bread, they say, "this is bread" and I say but I want bread MY WAY I want a loaf of sourdough, and then we fight bitterly.

The truth is the person IS giving me a loaf of bread the best way they know how. They ARE saying "I love you" with that loaf of nine grain.

When my mother told me she loved me, she does, she absolutely loves me, but she is constitutionally incapable of giving me the love I wanted, I needed.

For 15 years I was able to keep her at a distance using boundaries, although she was an extremely sick alcoholic human being, she loved me the best she could. We had a great relationship.

It was when I lowered my boundaries and placed her in a position of power over me that our dynamic changed.

We are powerless over alcohol, people, places and things

I am powerless over anything or anybody I give my power to.

So the moment I NEED bread from a hardware store or anywhere else for that matter I am powerless over that, or the moment I NEED someone else to conform to my definition of love I am in trouble, Love has to be something you give, not something you get.

The 3 C's, one is "we can't control it" when I am trying to get a loaf of bread from a human being incapable of giving me MY version of bread, I am trying to control them.

The only way to get bread is from within, is to make it ourselves. The answer is always found from within, never from other people or "hardware stores"

Maybe that's why that prayer says "Give us now our daily bread", because we fo sho aint gonna get it from "somewhere else" and trying to do so just causes me suffering.

sandrawg

Can someone make this a stickie?? There is so much wisdom in this post that it hurts. lol

DesertEyes

Done stickied under "Classic Reading"

Mike

Gypsy Feet

Ah, I get it!! Now if only the funnies were funnier. . .

Cath1029

WOW!!! I mean WOW!!

Ago, that was wonderful!! My AH has used the exact word "unique," but I did feel that I was "unique" enough to change him.

And love the "dry well" analogy.

Thank you so much!!

EndOfPinkCloud

I must say, you people are so smart.....I feel like my soul has been uplifted.

I thank you for your replies, really, from the bottom of my heart.

I've been talked down off the ledge once again!! Am feeling less crazed now. I am printing this one out and keeping it nearby.

God Bless all of us that are trying to recover from the effects of another's alcoholism.

Inquisitive7

This thread reminds me of this Aesop Fable:

The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


AesopFables.com - The Scorpion and the Frog - General Fable collection