HanahGoodness

Last week, after a summer of rollercoaster riding through dry spells and binges with my AH, my husband passed out in the backyard while he was mowing the lawn. AFter rolling around in the crap and taking me and my brother in law to move him into the shade for the afternoon, I packed my bag and left for a friend's house for overnight. The next day I gave him an ultimatum....either go to 2 AA meetings this week, see the therapist, make an appointment with med. dr., or I was done. Luckily I could say this because all 3 of my kids who still live at home were in their respective college dorms at the time. Otherwise, they make it harder because I am so worried about their reactions to the whole craziness.

In the meantime, I saw a lawyer this week who really spelled out what I would get and what I wouldn't get in our state. When he heard my AH's latest trick about missing my birthday (that happened to be the day he decided to mow the lawn) he was very direct with me about filing papers and sending my H a message.

The problem now is that my daughter has all of a sudden taken up the mission of trying to help him. If I file papers, it will not only send a message to him, but I fear it will adversely affect her. She is giving him letters everyday on his windshield...she drives here from school before going to classes and then goes back to campus. She bought him a keychain with the prayer of serenity on it....she has printed out AA meeting times and places for him. She has picked up where I left off when I began detaching from him. He loves the support and the focus on him. I'm still mixed up. I want a home for my kids to come to when they come home from college. If I file papers, that home will more than likely have to be sold. Where do they go? I know this sounds like I am mixed up....more than my AH.

He knows what he wants...he wants to drink when he feels like it so ease his pain, and he wants us all around to pick up the pieces when he does. I think more than anything, I need to figure out what is my next course of action.

I left the lawyer with the idea that I've given him an ultimatum already. Now he needs to live up to it. I guess that I've got to see if he can do it this week and the next. If not, then I'll file papers. I feel like I at least took a step by seeing a lawyer and telling him about my marriage. Why do I feel like I'm still caught in quicksand?

ANEWAUGUST

(((Hannah)))

It was a wise move to see a lawyer., you gained some valuable information.

What prompted your daughter to become so involved with trying to save him?

Has he quit drinking..is he attendiing meetings?

Sorry, but, I don't remember if you attend Al-Anon, do you?

HanahGoodness

I have attended and need to get back into the routine of going. I've read Codependent No More and have felt fairly good about my detachment this summer. I think my daughter has gotten so involved because she knows I am serious about filing for divorce and she wants her dad to get his act together. When we have talked in the past, she has said that she knows I can't live like this and she knows how it has hurt me. Recently, she doesn't want to lose her home, she thinks her dad can get better. I think he can too, but he doesn't really want to face reality. In my opinion,he is doing all of this so that he can keep us...not so he can really face his drinking and his need for drinking.

He is totally fine when he works...I wish he could work 24/7. It's the weekends and evenings when he feels he needs to be able to relax that are struggles for us...and those are times when we are together.

ANEWAUGUST

If he doesn't do this for himself, because he believes alcohol is causing problems in his life, and he needs to change, then, you are right, you are standing on quicksand.

Your husband will need to get well and be the father he needs to be if you stay together, or if you aren't together. He needs to be sober.

But..only he can decide that.

A house is a house...a home is someplace that is safe, sane and serene. Staying together for a inanimate object..well, that is your choice, but, is it truly worth living with someone that rolls in poo and doesn't say he has a problem

It took me a long time to realize that my mental health and my emotional well being are what is most important to me, especially as a parent. I want to teach my children healthy coping skills. I want my daughter to see how a husband should treat his wife. I want my son to see a man being a father and husband to his family.

I am sure this is personified with your children away, and it is just the two of you.

Is he still drinking? Is he doing anything to be sober?

Please get back to the Al-Anon meetings...your life has been so affected by this disease, and you need the support of others that are in your shoes.

Bernadette

Well your daughter grew up with an alcoholic father - so she (like me) probably has been given all the free gifts of that life (tendency towards raging codependence! control issues! magical thinking! denial!). What does your daughter know about alcoholism - other than what she's lived? Has she ever spoken to a counselor about her childhood? Gotten some perspective?Therapy helped me to separate what was good in my childhood (much!) from what was bad (much!). And how those experiences might be shaping my present behaviors for good or ill.

AlAnon really turned my head around, Once I got the concept that enabling was going to help alcoholism kill my brothers I wanted to knock that behavior off immediately. Alas, it turns out it is a lot to learn and a long process - but your daughter - if she is in college I am assuming she is 18- is an adult and she is now navigating the river of life and will have to figure these things out for herself. But it was a friend urging me to go to an AlAnon meeting with her that finally got me to give it a serious try - so maybe you can ask her to go with you - or suggest she look into on-campus meetings. Then you gotta let it go.

You cannot control all outcomes and manage everyone's experience through this difficult time. You can only make the best decisions for you and your life. And it sounds like you are on the right track - getting legal advice and moving forward.

A divorce and moving house are major life changes, they can't happen seamlessly or without any ripples. There will be sadness, reluctance, grief. But that doesn't mean you should avoid doing the right thing.

I want a home for my kids to come to when they come home from college.
We all want things to be a certain way - we carry an image in our minds-- but if you focus on the emotional elements of the image of home - a space, filled with light and warmth, and love enough that it can hold the joys and sorrows of this life-- that is a home! The people I love, I would visit them in a shack, the actual "building" is simply not as important as a person's mental health!!

Try to keep the focus on you, you have been giving and doing for everyone else in your family for so long it might feel unnatural but it is the healthy way forward to freedom and a much better life.

peace-
b

HanahGoodness

Bernadette,
Thank you so much...your post really makes me feel that I have the potential to do the right thing. I would like my daughter to go with me to a meeting sometime. Luckily, she is a very smart girl and if her home (and my other 3 kids') changes, I know they will eventually accept it as for the best.

Again, I appreciate your insight and encouragement!

Barbara52

I too wanted to save my alcoholic parents. Never worked of course.

Pointing your daughter toward books on Adult Children of Alcoholics and Alanon meetings might help her. But remember her struggles with all this are her struggles, not yours. You can't make her understand anymore than you can make your AH understand. We all have to deal with the long terms effects of a dysfunctional alcoholic family in our own way and in our own time.

I would not let a child of mine deter me from the course of action I had decided was the right one for me. I would proceed as I needed to with the knowledge that improving my situation and way of living would begin to provide a healthier role model for my children.

Learn2Live

Hanah,

Please don't read this post as me being mean to you in any way, because I am not feeling or trying to be mean. I am just trying to get you to look at all this from a different perspective.

I am still seeing a lot of Denial in your posts. It sounds like you may be still focusing on what the alcoholic is and is not doing, what the alcoholic thinks and feels, what the alcoholic needs to do about himself, and what you should do about the alcoholic.

You also have now further complicated things for yourself by adding to your worries and choices what your daughter is now doing and why, and what you should do in response to that.

When might you start wondering and working on what to do about yourself?

Not what to do about the house, the husband, the divorce, the dog poop, the children, not what to do about ANYTHING but YOU.

Oh, what a SMART and CARING lawyer (sarcasm). I'm glad he was so direct with you. Do you suppose the function of his directness may have been to get you to do what HE wants you to do, for instance, PAY him to write and file divorce papers for you?

And, your last straw according to this lawyer is that your husband ignored your birthday, so you should definitely file for divorce? Does this sound strange to you?

And you agree with the lawyer that you should pay him to file divorce papers for you and send your husband some message that he hasn't been sent before?

Or, if the COURT tells your husband to shape up or you're leaving, then your husband is going to shape up?

Does this lawyer also tell you that filing for divorce will "stick it to him where it hurts" (meaning his wallet) and THAT will magically cure his alcoholism?

How have you detached from him?

Is this what he said to you in person? Did he say to you, "I love all this support and focus on me"? Or do you just assume that this is what he is thinking, feeling, and wanting? I can guarantee you that your husband is not loving ANYTHING right now.

You HAVE a home for your kids to come home to. By following what your lawyer is saying (and NOT what I believe your heart is saying) you will create even MORE questions, dilemmas and worries for yourself.

How do you know these things? Did he tell you these things directly? Did he say, "I drink because I have so much pain and I want to do this whenever I feel like. And, oh, by the way, I want you and the kids to take care of me and pick up the pieces behind me."? Or are you just assuming these things?

If he has not "done" whatever it is you have been expecting and wanting him to do all these years, what makes you think he's going to do them just because you gave him an ultimatum? Let me guess, you are hoping and praying he gets scared of losing you and real quick turns "normal"?

Is this you waiting to see what HE does about HIMSELF? What should YOU do about YOURSELF?

A step towards where exactly? Why does it sound like you are not happy with the destination you are now heading towards?

Because:

(1) You won't let go of what you want from your husband;

(2) You continue to have expectations of your husband that are too high for him to meet right now;

(3) You are planning on and threatening to do something you feel will cause another human being to hurt in some way. And that behavior is in direct opposition to how you see and define yourself and your kind, loving, and caring nature.

(4) You are taking steps toward making a choice that you feel will hurt your children in some way. That too is in direct opposition to your self-image. You do not know what to do because now you see how this choice has worried and caused your daughter to accept responsibility for "helping" her Dad.

(5) You are taking steps toward making a choice that you feel will deny to your children something you value strongly (your marriage to their father, and the family home). These behaviors go very much against your very strong personal values and the commitments you have made to your loved ones.

ALL of these things (#3-5) erode your own self-esteem; and

(6) ALL of #1-5 also make it much more difficult, and much more painful, to look at yourself.

I hope something here helps to lift you out of some of your confusion.

dothi

Alcoholism is a family disease. As the family breaks down, pressure intensifies on the most codependent members. Things may look worse for a while before they get better. The problems your marriage and AH have passed on to your children will not evaporate right away in light of a divorce.

I don't mean to come down hard on you, HanahGoodness, but the damage to your children is already done.

You say you fear news of a divorce will adversely affect your daughter. What is worse? Promising your children change and following through with it, or breaking another promise? I assume your children are aware you were planning to do this (the divorce or a separation at least?). What else is worse... How about telling your children to make healthy life choices and then reverting back to an unhealthy life choice?

I've been through this. My sister and I have watched this with our own codie mom, who is still with AF. I still wish she would have stepped up, been a parent, and made an adult choice instead of constantly waffling and inadvertently blaming us for her decision to stay in a marriage that makes her so unhappy.

Well you know what mom? It was still your choice. Did you ask me if I wanted you to stay? Have you asked your daughter about this? Or are you assuming?

Sure your daughter may want to help her dad. She still loves him as a father, and probably even wants to see if she can figure out something mom missed in trying to "fix" dad (some nice codie habits there). Letting go of an alcoholic spouse is tough. So is letting go of an alcoholic parent and accepting that it is truly their decision to keep drinking, no matter what you do to help them.

IMO let your daughter grow up for herself. Let her go through the learning experience herself and realize what she can and can't control. She has already learned how to deal with an addict by watching you. Hence, she's picked up where you left off. Now she is on her own journey with un-learning codependent habits and re-learning how to live her own life. Of course it doesn't have to all be done the hard way. Point her towards some resources - especially books for Adult Children of Alcoholics - to help accelerate her learning. Let her have a headstart at unravelling her ACOA issues... issues that are already there, regardless of whether you divorce or not.

And listen to the other good people on here. You need to take care of you. It's a hard habit it seems, especially for moms who devote so much of their life to taking care of others. But you're at the end of the line now, HanahGoodness. Let's stop finding any more excuses to put off focussing on you.

Thumper

dothi: Holy cow. That hit me like a ton of bricks. I read this forum all the time. I read the AOCA forum too. I'm desperately trying to find my way and do the right thing and there are so many words of wisdom here. Thank you (and all the others).

HanahGoodness, I've recently accepted that I am also an adult child of an alcoholic. I was in a little denial there Really, I loved both my parents more then anything in the world, and I wanted them both happy. Your children are not blind. I used to wish and wish for my parents to separate, to find happiness. I wanted that for *both* of them. Your children are adults now. Find your way. Find peace and happiness. I know that sometimes that is a tall order.

Move forward with honesty and sincerity in your pursuit of that mission. Your children will see that. They will see the results. It is a gift you will be giving them. They might even surprise you and not only accept it but embrace it with relief in their eyes.

Barbara52

Amen to that! I am still dealing, at the age of 54, with all the dysfunctional lessons I learned so well as a child and young adult. I learned that a wife sacrifices her all for others regardless of what she wants or needs. I learned that love means hiding the pain my parents' alcoholism caused me because it was forbidden to talk about it. I learned that alcoholism was "normal" and abuse was acceptable. I learned to marry an alcoholic.

I didn't have a parent. I had 2 disfunctional adults whose priority was alcohol. At your daughters age, I thought it was my responsibility to "save" both my parents. I wondered what I did or was doing wrong since I wasn't sucessful. I wondered what was wrong with me as a person that my parents wouldn't give up alcohol because it was bad for them, why I couldn't make them understand.

I did manage to find my way back then to some degree by majoring in psychology and thru the help of one of my professors. I learned I was not responsible and could not make anyone change. I at least learned to let go and detach. Its been way too many more years that I began dealing with the rest. Your daughter too can begin to learn new behaviors, new thinking, and unlearn all she has already soaked up.