queenie88

Had a good weekend. Some old friends came into town and we spent the entire weekend together catching up. Then Monday rolls around and xabf calls me and leaves me a voicemail about how his sister’s wedding went well, and I feel like I’ve taken a few steps back. I was going to go to the wedding with him before everything fell apart. Of course I called him back, and he didn’t answer. Is this just a game to him?

Can’t help but feeling lonely, sad and nostalgic now. I thought I was doing better but sometimes the bad stuff creeps in and you feel like you’re right back to where you started.

Is it unhealthy or abnormal that I just want to talk to him and tell him how much I love and miss him?

BS08

Ya queenie, it is.

You really shouldn't take any calls from him. These reminders that you are no longer part of his life in that way are painful. Right after my exABF broke up with me, I had to see pictures of a river trip we were supposed to go on together (I got booted off) and of his time with his family back in PA (I was supposed to go home with him. Had to cancel those plans too). It hurt me a lot to see something I should of been to. It reopened the wounds everytime I heard about it or saw the photos.

I fight now still to not look at his FB page. It's a big draw, but so far I've been successful at it, but it's a real fight to not look. Everytime I have contact, I find I go emotionally south. That's the payoff everytime you have contact with him. You're emotions are going to go south.

And why is he telling you this? To rub it in and make you feel bad? You're not part of his life anymore so you really don't need to hear about it. You had a great weekend until he called. That tells you right away you need to stay away. Anyone that has that much control over your emotional wellbeing is someone you don't need in your life. He doesn't make you feel good about yourself.

I think it would be better for you emotionally to let him go in ever aspect. There is pain ahead in the grieving, but there is no way around it. It's just something you'll have to go through to get to the other side.

Block him out. He's just a painful memory...

bluejay6

Queenie,
"Better" doesn't mean "numb".

You will be emotionally reactive to him for a long time. Our feelings are automatic, out of our immediate control, so instead of assuming we can stop them, we have to find ways to avoid letting those feelings control our lives.

Instead of avoiding the feelings, I think it's always a good idea to write them out. "I feel .....because...." While you have pen in hand, be sure to make a list of all the ways he failed you and of the reality of who he is (he is what he does).

Then accept that you are emotionally wounded, your lacerations will take a long time to heal, and seek out any healing environment available to you. A beautiful park with a pond, a drive through farm fields, a massage or a facial, an empty beautiful church, a walk with a dog. God allows us to learn through pain, but He also offers to bear us up until we are through it.

You do not right now have to do anything for anyone else. This is your time to grieve. This is your time to ask for help. Later you can minister to others. But for all of us there is a time when we need to take, not give. (one of the messages of Ecclesiastes..... a season for everything).

You are getting better, queenie. That he triggers you is not a sign that you are in trouble. You are getting much better and it is completely all right that you still love him and are hurting.

As we all know here, you cannot be with him because his addiction will control the relationship and you. It does not mean you do not still love him.

His calling you was an extremely selfish act.

So take good care today, and stay in reality,

Bluejay

leelee5675

It may not be a conscious "game" to him, but there's definitely a motive there. And I bet it involves you getting hurt somehow.

Muster all your strength and keep him in the past where he belongs.

queenie88

thanks for the replies everyone. i just have a question for the seasoned posters here: does it drive you absolutely crazy when you come across some newbies here asking the same questions, and going against your sage advice? do you ever think, "well, my advice to that person was to stop calling, to stop picking up the phone calls, to change the phone number, but that person didn't...argh!"

i understand it must look so crystal clear to you all since most of you have the benefit of time and distance. you're well along the path to your own recoveries...and i know i ask the same questions over and over again and i end up talking to xabf when i know i'll just get sucked into the same cycle of obsessing...so thanks for still listening and replying. it's much appreciated.

Cath

hey queenie,

I get the same feelings too...and you posted on my earlier thread about how my ex is now calling again. I ignored his call, his text, his facebook message. Time to start blocking him on facebook, change the phone number too maybe...I know that its hard. I still have moments of loneliness and sadness and yes sometimes I do want to talk to him but then I just remind myself of all the things he has put me through and how far I have already come now that I am on my own and focusing on ME.

I would take BlueJay's advice...write down how you feel and it is normal to grieve. I think its good to feel your emotions...that is something I have started to do...cry when I need to cry, write how I feel, write him letters that will never be sent. It helps. Don't feel bad that you still have feelings for him..its not like once you break up the feelings disappear. I still have feelings for my ex and they're just going to just have to fade over time...I know that I feel better about myself today by not giving in and responding to him and for once taking care of myself.

Hang in there...If I can do it so can you! You are doing so well, don't let this set you back...

Cynay

*chuckles*

Sure today it looks crystle clear.... I only had to do it for 20 years over and over before I finally "got" it. In answer to this question NO... it does not drive me crazy.... Im blessed to be able to stand on the other side of that bridge .... and that is a gift that I do not take for granted, I still have bridges to cross and Im sooooo thankful for the people standing on the otherside that keep encouraging me and picking me up when I fall.

That is the beauty of the program....

peaceteach

You are too cute, Queenie.

As a mother, sure I want to TELL you what to do, save you from future pain. As a woman, I want you to know that through my own experience with pain I learned great lessons about life and inner strength. But I learned them only through my own battles with codependency and loved ones' addictions, and they "stuck" only because I suffered enough pain to successfully teach me "no more." So watching newbies go back to their A's several times more before these lessons stick for them makes the mother bear in me come out, but the inner woman more resolved in my daily efforts to stay away from the dramas of addiction myself.

It works both ways -- you get to have support while you learn YOUR lessons, and I gain support that my decision to separate myself from the insanity is still what was the right one to make.

I walk proudly with each one of you members, seasoned vets, newbies, and those in between. I feel your pain sometimes too much as a codie, but get better at turning it off also, at saying a prayer to HP's that they know what is best, and at keeping the focus on me, where I do have a chance at peace and serenity and happiness. It's a daily thing still. Keep your chin up, Queenie. You are doing fine.

queenie88

ARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH I’m just getting so angry now!!! Xabf called me on Monday about how his sister's wedding went well and for me to give him a call back. Well I did. twice. And he hasn’t picked up or phoned me back. WHAT IS GOING ON? WHY am I playing into his manipulation???? It’s just a game to him!!!! Every time he calls I feel some twinge that MAYBE he feels remorse, MAYBE he misses me, MAYBE he wants to right his wrongs. But it’s NEVER the case. He calls, I call back and NOTHING. I’m tired of this! I just want to send him a furious email saying that YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC, GET SOME HELP AND GET THE H*LL OUT OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!

Cowgirl1265

Queenie, I feel your frustration. All I can say is that wondering why he is doing what he is doing isn't going to help you get better. Calling him back only feeds into the sense that you are going to be able to understand this man and somehow have a normal relationship with him.

It might be healthier for you to just not listen to his messages or take his calls. Do you think you could do that? Put him out of your mind for a while and see if you start feeling less anxious and frustrated?

sandrawg

I would suggest you do send him that email. But not with the intention that it'll have any effect on him or help him but to simply tick him off enough that maybe he'll stop bothering you.

Although, he's not really the problem here-your inability to be reactive to him is the problem.

Have you read Codependent No More, btw?

Learn2Live

Hey Girl,
Here's what I've got to say today. Hope something here is helpful.

There’s really no way to tell unless you ASK him. My guess, based on my experiences is, NO, he's probably not intentionally playing a game with you. He may want to be in a relationship with you but he apparently cannot operate in a relationship in the way you would like him to. Remember too that he is half of the Codependent equation, meaning he is just as, if not more, Codependent than you are.

Please intellectualize that you are aware of your feelings and recognize that this is probably not right back where you started. Additionally, Queenie, ask yourself if you have LEARNED anything in the last 6 months. You are never right back where you started to tell the truth because EVERY DAY we are changed people, based on all the days before today. This is why it is very important to keep a journal and write down the dates, what you did, how you felt, how you behaved. You will begin to see trends and you will be more aware each day how far you really have come.

No, it is not unhealthy or abnormal. But it appears that you have not chosen a “good” candidate to share, respect, and reciprocate these feelings of yours. I’m willing to guess that most of us want the same things as you do from this man. However, please understand that getting what you want will not make you happy.

No, what you describe does not personally make me angry or crazy (I am ALREADY crazy, LOL). When you practice the 12 Steps and participate in 12-Step meetings, you learn very quickly that everybody goes at their own pace. They get there when they get there. Please don’t feel that by repeating yourself on SR, or at Al-Anon, bothers anyone. We have all been EXACTLY where you are. I cannot tell you how long my family and friends have had to listen to me about these SAME exact things. But most importantly, please recognize that YOU are being very impatient and judgmental of yourself.

I can’t speak for anyone else but for me, nothing is crystal clear. I think crystal clear would mean that we understand everything all the time. For me, clarity comes in VERY small doses. Each time I reach clarity on a SINGLE issue, I try to add that to all the “clarities” (or “Ah-Ha’s”) I’ve gotten before. It’s like a jigsaw puzzle. You learn piece by piece and eventually the big picture is developed. THIS IS A LIFELONG PROCESS. NONE of us has a completed puzzle. If we did, we would be DEAD.

Queenie, the more people I meet, talk to, become acquainted with, the more I realize we ALL obsess about something. There are “good” or healthy obsessions and there are “bad” or unhealthy obsessions. Try obsessing about something good, like cleaning your kitchen, or clearing out that basement room you’ve been meaning to work on. Right now, I am obsessing about posting on SR and reading as much as I can about people during World War II. The life I choose to live right now may not be the healthiest for me, but it is healthier than many other ways I have chosen to live in the past.

Queenie, this is good for many reasons. Just don’t harm or destroy yourself, any objects or people with your anger (that would be unhealthy). Please recognize that anger is the expression of any underlying feeling. Ask yourself what is the feeling beneath my anger? Then, try to allow yourself to respond to that feeling. Look for what it is you WANT, or your EXPECTATIONS that are causing the feeling and then, change your mind about the want or expectation.

Tell yourself the following two things (fill in the blanks):
(1) "Getting _______ (what I want) will NOT make me happy"; and
(2) "My expectation that this person does this: ______ (what you expect), is TOO HIGH for him (or her) to meet at this time."

It is healthier to NOT keep dwelling on whether or not he is manipulating you. You are NOT playing into what HE is doing. You are playing into what YOU are perceiving, thinking, and feeling. You are CHOOSING to focus on HIM, instead of YOURSELF. You have CHOICE here, Queenie and you continue to not choose wisely. You have personal power that you have given away to this person that you had NO BUSINESS giving away. YOU are responsible for your feelings, behaviors, and attitudes NOT HIM.

Queenie, these are HIS feelings and he has a right to decide on which are right for him, not you. Did HE say or otherwise indicate directly to you that he feels remorseful, missing you, or ready to change? If not, you are just wishing to get what YOU want, which will NOT make you happy.

My interpretation of this is that you are STILL wanting to control him, still expecting him to do what YOU want him to do, and still giving the responsibility for your feelings over to another person instead of taking responsibility for them YOURSELF.

TakingCharge999

I just want to send him a furious email saying that YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC, GET SOME HELP AND GET THE H*LL OUT OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!

You can say this WITH YOUR ACTIONS... not answering... blocking him from everything.... at least the GET THE H*LL OUT OF MY LIFE part will get across...

People around here have got apologies and none of those people have felt good about it. So even if he came saying "I am sorry" you .. honestly? would not feel any better. I asked for an apology and I got it, it was totally empty. It was almost like an insult, in his attitude and words he was really saying "just get off my back, I will say anything for you to shut up and leave me alone". Now other people around here have got more heartfelt apologies, and no, that did not "make up" for any bad moment, bad week, or years of misery.

No words from anyone will erase the tears you have shed and the bad moments, but its only up to you not to let anyone hurt you again this way... and that includes this guy!

Ceridwen

better doesn't have to mean all better, or back to square one. Black and white.
It can mean better than I was.

progress not perfection

I have a huge tendnecy towards black and white thinking, all or nothing. At work I can laugh about it and my boss uses me in situations where she needs black and white, pass and fail.

But I have found that there are few situations that benefit from this approach or analysis in our real lives.

although as others have said actually doing that won't get him out of your life it will just continue the conversation, and he'll respond with some other abuse or attempt to reel you in.............

I found writing down all my anger and hurt and frustration in minute detail saying all the things that I'd LIKE to say but would no doubt regret at a later date really therapeutic. And then burn it, or whatever just don't send it to him.

queenie88

oooooooooooohhhhhh the regret. that's the only thing that seems to be stopping me. i've gotten better at recognizing my codie tendencies...earlier today i was beginning to get SO angry...fuming almost, i started writing out a vitriolic email to send to him about how he's a selfish, narcissistic alcoholic, how he's never looked at himself or his problems in this relationship or others, how he could never love me the way any person in a healthy relationship deserves to be loved. just typing it out felt good, but i know if i sent something so spiteful i'd immediately regret it.

i recognize...why am i getting angry? because my expectations of him are not being met...i'm expecting him to call me back after he sees i've called, after he's asked me to call him back. i don't think those expectations are necessarily unrealistic, but many have said that it's unrealistic to expect these things of someone who can never meet those expectations. really, i'm the one that's causing my anger, not him. if only i'd had this realization before i had my blow up and accidentally broke his tv!!!!

taking time out from anger is a good idea. identifying that i'm feeling angry, pausing, and asking myself, what is underneath my anger and frustration?

i know i can stop the madness if i really work hard at it, but i also know that, when i least expect it, when i've gained a bit of footing and some serenity and understanding, he'll be calling again, and it will be the same merry-go-round.

queenie88

and then i have those brief moments when i think.....but i'm letting him take advantage of me by not telling him how i really feel!!! i shouldn't have to walk on eggshells any more!

it's so frustrating.

sandrawg

I think the only apology that would mean anything to me, from my xabf, would be the one that comes from making an amends as part of a 12-step program. One that's heartfelt and sincere from someone sober.

sandrawg

I'm sorry, I had to laugh at something you said about "blowing up his TV." One time, I broke a painting against a wall. My xabf freaked out and decided he was going to "walk home" (from my house to his was about 15 miles???) I ended up chasing after him....

Oh lord, the messes we get ourselves into when we can't keep our reactionary anger under control..!

TakingCharge999

It won't be the same merry go round IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE (if you got a caller ID!). OR if you answer, hear his voice, hang up. Or if you delete the text messages...

You can gain a bit and LOTS of footing and serenity and understanding and KEEP ON THAT TRACK the rest of your life / you do not have to listen to what he wants, when he wants it, or how he wants it from YOU... the ONLY way to win this is NOT TO PLAY as someone else said around here... if you play you automatically lost.

YOUR RECOVERY IS NOT UP TO HIM.

I enganged and enganged and sometimes keep engaging, its just not worth it, queenie.
The suffering. It is not worth it. There is nothing new in them. Every bad trait you remember? Its still there. Nothing has changed for them. There has been no looking back and learning. There has only been numbing and drinking.

Denial is there, tons of enablers are there, their gigantic egos are there... the person you may have known before is gone and it is ok for you to mourn him... but you have to accept he is gone. Right now he chooses to be someone else. Addiction or moral choice, I don't know..he is just gone.

I did what you want to do. I sent a spiteful email, telling him everything i felt, about lack of support, our friendship, etc etc how betrayed I felt, well his response later was "you shouldnt have sent that email". I could have answered "and you shouldnt have betrayed my friendship, what we had, criticized and lied, manipulated, verbally abused me and badmouthed me with common friends" but at that point a lightbulb came on and I realized it was futile to make him see my pain, see my side. It hurt but I realized I was infront of a total stranger that had nothing but pain to share.

The good thing about SR is that you can see what happened in different scenarios... and no.. an email is tempting but if EX did not realize my pain when he threw his venom in words and made me cry complete nights, if he was oblivious to it.. why would he ever "get it" via email? I am sure you also had instances where your ex could have seen your sadness or anger, did he ever acknowledge your feelings the way you want him to do it now? (FOR REAL?)

Write all you want just dont send it... don't give him the benefit of knowing you are so hurt... I did, and ex used it against me and boosted his ego even more... that is why I am convinced, if you play you lost already... there is no way to "win" over alcoholics/narcissists/ jerks/immature people... stop trying... it won't work. EVERYTHING you do will be used against you if you keep engaging.

You are very young and there is so much waiting for you, great people you will meet, that will make you go and realize there are lots of worthy people out there that behave like human beings, not like wounded animals... (sorry for the gross analogy but lately I can see how I myself behaved that way too, and see how true it is that people only give others what they have inside)

queenie88

oh man sandrawg, i second that!!! i just couldn't believe how i just exploded...i've never been that angry before. it's taken me a long time to admit this act to others and to accept it for myself. i was just so ashamed and embarrassed.

but when i finally did, i was really surprised that the majority of reactions were "cmon, that's not that bad, relationships have suffered worse transgressions and have survived, you're not a terrible person." took me a while to actually believe them instead of thinking "oh they have to tell me that they're my friends/family."

and while i do take responsibility for the unhealthy things i did in that relationship, i don't think behavior like that just exists in a vacuum. i was obviously reacting unhealthily to his unhealthy behavior, but xabf chooses to see everything as being all my fault. i was just so ungrateful and immature and selfish and an angry person! i was horrible!

at least all your xabf did was walk away...mine kicked me out of his house!!!!