Dadtrying

I am rather new here. It has been a great place to vent and get support. I have appreciated the help.

Now my question. I took some time to check out other areas of this website and came across the alcoholics in recovery posts to see what it is like on their side. I figured it would be helpful to see things as they see them.

I read a few posts and found that the "RA" have been ranting about us. The CODE husbands and wives and one that made me a little angry, CODE daughter who is, "out of control"

It seemed as though all the support was for these RA's and not for the others. Quite to opposite as we see here.

So who is right? Who is to blame? I know I have not done things the right way all the time. I know I have gotten angry with my AW.

Let's say she posts on here and gives "her version" of our life as she lives it. You know what I mean. The blame the code crap.

I would imagine that they would support her and tell her I'm no good and she should run as fast as she can.

I am not saying I am buying into that, I'm just trying to understand this disease and the two completely different outlooks on who is right and who is wrong.

Have I lost you yet?

Gypsy Feet

I am both an ex long time drunk, and the ex of a long time drunk. I don't see it as right and wrong, I see it as sick and dying or sick and trying. We are all here on this site for support, advice and knowledge. One thing people will share with both the addict and the codie, is not to focus on what other people are doing, only on what you are doing.

I found as soon as I started untangling the mess that is "my side of the street", I had more than enough work to do.

Pelican

Hey DadT

Keep venting, it's healthy and allowed.

Actually, the negative posts from A's about recovering codies is usually fear based. We scare the sh!t out of them. Some recovering codies(like myself) use Alanon as part of our recovery and we have tools based on AA principles and don't buy into their BS anymore.

I'm with GypsyFeet. Keeping our side of the street clean keeps us plenty busy. We learn to pick up the mirror and examine ourselves and put down the magnifying glass that kept us focused on their behaviors.

I'm also a double winner like Gypsy, recovering alcoholic and recovering codie of an alcoholic xspouse. Feel free to ask questions.

Dadtrying

Thank you both. Your responses make perfect sense, as I knew they would, hence the reason I posted this thread. Just needed to hear it.

Still Waters

And THAT is what it's really about.

LaTeeDa

I've learned over the years that one of the things that kept me in distress is the need to be 'right.' And one of the hallmarks that codepedents and alcoholics have in common is black and white thinking. Having the belief that in order for me to be right, he had to be wrong, kept me engaged in a power struggle for years.

What if right and wrong are individual, personal concepts? What if I can do what's right for me and allow others to do what's right for them without judgment? What if black and white are only two extremes among the infinite shades of gray? What if we all stopped looking for someone to blame and started taking action to change our lives?

L

Still Waters

I understand what you're saying LTD, and I agree that in these type situations it isn't helpful to dwell on who is "right" and who is "wrong". That said, right and wrong are not personal concepts, there are things that are right, and things that are wrong. Period.

The story of the 11 year old who was kidnapped and kept in that scumbags backyard for 18 years is a good example of wrong.

sailorjohn

Well, the perspective from both sides of the fence, codie, alcoholic.

Might be helpful if everyone just starts owning their own stuff rather than attempting to parcel out blame. When I drank, it was my choice. When I react like a codie, it is my choice.

Admittedly, that second part, owning up to my codie behavior, is a lot tougher.

aboutdone

Reminds me of the words in the song "not meant to be" by Theory of a Deadman. They have some awesome songs.

Anyways, bottom line, "nobody wins when everyones losing"

Still Waters

Really? Is it the owning up or the changing of that is harder?

GiveLove

The more I looked for the answer to this question in every corner -- counseling, coaching, the enneagram, myers-briggs personality types, etc. -- the more I came to realize that, when it comes to relationships & communication styles (not sociopaths) everybody's just operating from their own pain, fear, and skill level, and nobody's right, nobody's wrong.

There are certain quantifiable things: Either I do or I do not honor my clearly-stated agreements. Those certainly go into the calculation.

But gray-area decisions about how to spend money, whether or how much to indulge potentially addictive behaviors, how much to vent to strangers, how much contact to have with certain family members.......I could spend lots and lots of hours of my life trying to prove my own preference right, and someone else's wrong. I just don't any more. It changes nothing.

I stay in any relationship as long as I respect the person's way of living in the world and interacting with others. Where there is no respect, there is no reason for me to be there any more. There's also no reason to prove my way is right, his/hers wrong - it's irrelevant. They can be dead right and I still won't respect them, or dead wrong but working so hard to see truth that I stick around. It's personal.

My life is my life, my choices are my choices. I don't need to prove anything to anyone - if someone thinks I'm wrong, so be it. Not my problem.

TakingCharge999

Both sides suck and have nothing to do with joy and living our heart's dreams

My therapist just told me this:

An alcoholic is defined so because he/she is controlled by the need to drink.

All people have codie tendencies, that is being human, but it gets to be a problem when you stop respecting yourself and don't know where your boundaries are. Those boundaries can be put and defended anytime and can change the better you know yourself.

She said calling myself a "codie" was harmful and not a constructive definition for anyone. We are humans learning how to respect ourselves, all of us. And that we are much more than the patterns we learned, calling myself a "codie" is limiting and unfair to myself.

Addiction is an entirely different Universe and I am not addicted to my boyfriend, I am just going through the normal mourning stages.

And one day acceptance will come and I will move on for good. Unlike alcoholics that have to live One Day At a Time just not to go back to their DOC until their very last day.

I am not a psychologist, but all this sounded true and compassionate to me, so I decided to adopt this view... just two cents

LaTeeDa

Then, the next difficult thing I had to deal with was the payoff I was getting from all this judging. It made me feel better about myself. I was the 'good' person compared to him. He was the 'bad' person. My self-righteousness gave me comfort, because the truth was, I was not very happy or comfortable with myself. Judging other people puffed up my ego and made me feel worthy, because I had no inherent self-worth. I needed to feel 'better' than someone else just to feel good about myself.

I also suspect that when all the facts are revealed, the kidnapper you mentioned, will turn out to be a very sick and damaged person. Not saying that excuses his behavior in any way. I'm just saying I don't have the right or responsibility to pass judgment on anyone. It's not my job. Never was actually.

L

GiveLove

Ouch, LTD, I remember that 'better than' part of my character. I discovered it when I did the steps for the first time. That was such a painful and embarrassing realization for me......but so precious and so freeing to root it out of me.

Ago

Who is "right" is whoever has addressed what it is that "ails" them, The alcoholic that has decided they don't want to live like this any more and recovered, and made the effort to repair the damage they have wrought both in their own lives and others, and the codependent that has given up the illusion of control of those around them and begun healing themselves, learned how to focus on themselves and so seek recovery.

Who is "right" is ALL of the people that have been damaged by this awful and horrific disease that destroys everything it comes in contact with and have drawn a line in this sand and said to themselves, "This I will no longer tolerate" and taken the action for themselves necessary to make it a reality.

Who is "right" in all of this is all of the blameless children who grew up in warped alcoholic family situations and said "no more, this unhealthy pattern that has spanned generation after generation and has destroyed so many lives in my family ends with me"

Who is "right" is you, by deciding to seek help for yourself and not perpetuate these sick patterns that cause harm to yourself and others.

Who is "right" is all those who say to themselves:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them

Although I do have to admit it didn't really work out to well for Hamlet, but I suspect his Uncle was an alcoholic and his mom was definitely the original codie, but by God it sounds cool.

One of the most liberating things I ever learned in therapy was my GF was talking, and telling this story I COMPLETELY disagreed with, and when it was over the therapist said "That's Right", when it was MY turn, MY version of said events was diametrically opposed, and she said "That's right too"

Each of these was how we perceived these events, we had different 'realities", and they were both "right". Once I learned to let go of the notion of if I was right, you were wrong if we had differing perceptions of the same events, I learned how to start navigating those emotional pitfalls with a lot more ease.

To me, and this is only my opinion, but a good look at what recovery from codependency looks like can be found by going back and reading LaTeeDa's Posts, and someone named ToughChoices, maybe read a couple dozen of each of their posts and decide if that's something you find attractive and want in YOUR life.

If so, that can be reached by attending Alanon, getting a sponsor and working the steps and or doing some pretty serious work with a therapist, although personally I find they work in conjunction REALLY well.

sandrawg

No one is to blame. The disease is to blame.

Both the alcoholic and the codie are reacting to the slavery of addiction which can never result in a healthy environment. It's toxic, toxic, toxic, and it makes both the alcoholic and the codie who loves them SICK.

sandrawg

Apologies to those who don't accept the codie word or concept, but to me it seems to fit, mainly because I totally buy into the concept of enabling. Codependent=one who enables.

Still Waters

Oh my. I remember reading about that. Perhaps if someone had made a judgment call, that the guy shouldn't be allowed alone with that baby..

I think we judge every day, in all situations. I judge that allowing my teen to go off to a friends house, who I don't know with no parents home isn't a good idea. I passed judgment on an older friend of hers that wanted to drive her to the mall this past weekend...no sorry, not been driving long enough..too young.

Judgments are a part of life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them. They aren't the same as saying you're better than someone else. They're taking the reality of what is, and deciding if that is healthy for you, or not...in my opinion.

LaTeeDa

Okay, now we're just talking about two different definitions of the word 'judgment.'

One is a reasoned decision. I have no problem with that kind of judgment.

The other is determining I am better than another person for whatever reason I justify in my mind. That's the one I was referring to.

L

Ago

My favorite description of this has always been:

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