well, you were right.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
well, you were right.
We’ve started talking again. Xabf is back from mexico. It’s been three months since he kicked me out of his house and two months since he strung me along and broke up with me. We weren’t talking while he was away, and I took that time (after crying and being destroyed and blaming everything on me) to sort through things, analyze my behaviors and identify the crazy, unhealthy things I did in the relationship, and tried to take responsibility for those actions. I also looked at what he was doing and realized that the demise of the relationship wasn’t, in fact, entirely my fault, despite what xabf might have said. I’ve been trying to untangle myself from my enmeshment with him. that one I haven’t been so successful with. I find myself obsessing a lot, still. I’ve gotten better, but it’s still there.
He called me almost immediately when he got back, and I didn’t answer. Then he sent me two emails saying he had called me. I let about a week go by, then I caved and called him. I think initially I wanted to talk to him to get some kind of validation. I also wanted to know if he had an apology for me. I also just missed talking to him. so I called. Of course I didn’t get any validation or apology, just as everyone had said. The beginning part of the conversation was fine. We caught each other up. And then we started talking about “the problems.” And just like that, it was the same old same old. In his mind, “We tried” and “I was treated poorly” and “I think that if you were happy with me and the situation, those things wouldn’t have happened” and “I think there are just some people that like to have drama in their relationships” (meaning me, I guess) and “I just think you want someone else.”
Sometimes it’s just so frustrating, trying to talk to him. apparently he has all the answers about me and what I want. What about him??? why can’t he just say “I want someone else”? is this his way of turning everything around and putting the blame on me?
We’ve spoken on the phone twice since he’s been back. I’m trying to remain as indifferent as I can. I ask him why he calls. He says “because I just want to see how you’re doing, because I care.”
Is this all a load of bullsh*t? if he’s trying to manipulate me, what is he getting out of it from me? I’m not groveling, I’m not begging for him to take him back, I’m no longer blaming myself for everything that happened – is it possible he’s genuinely concerned, or is something else going on? I feel like I can’t figure this one out.
He called me almost immediately when he got back, and I didn’t answer. Then he sent me two emails saying he had called me. I let about a week go by, then I caved and called him. I think initially I wanted to talk to him to get some kind of validation. I also wanted to know if he had an apology for me. I also just missed talking to him. so I called. Of course I didn’t get any validation or apology, just as everyone had said. The beginning part of the conversation was fine. We caught each other up. And then we started talking about “the problems.” And just like that, it was the same old same old. In his mind, “We tried” and “I was treated poorly” and “I think that if you were happy with me and the situation, those things wouldn’t have happened” and “I think there are just some people that like to have drama in their relationships” (meaning me, I guess) and “I just think you want someone else.”
Sometimes it’s just so frustrating, trying to talk to him. apparently he has all the answers about me and what I want. What about him??? why can’t he just say “I want someone else”? is this his way of turning everything around and putting the blame on me?
We’ve spoken on the phone twice since he’s been back. I’m trying to remain as indifferent as I can. I ask him why he calls. He says “because I just want to see how you’re doing, because I care.”
Is this all a load of bullsh*t? if he’s trying to manipulate me, what is he getting out of it from me? I’m not groveling, I’m not begging for him to take him back, I’m no longer blaming myself for everything that happened – is it possible he’s genuinely concerned, or is something else going on? I feel like I can’t figure this one out.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
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He is trying to keep the door open with you so he has a handy enabler if he needs one.
Go no contact, don't answer his calls anymore, delete him from the email, Facebook, etc. Change your number so you know for sure it will never be him.
Block him and ask anyone who knows him not to mention him infront of you. Or don't talk to anyone who knows him for a while.
I know you may not follow this advice. I wish I had followed it when it was given to me. I kept engaging and engaging. Most of what he said to me was a lie. When he asked about my plans it was not because he was interested, it was because he wanted to know I was still single to feed his ego. And countless examples....
Its not worth it, queenie. Big mistake, believing his words. What does his actions tell you? that is where the truth is.
"Because I care" yeahhh right.... sorry queenie.. none of his actions before show any care for you at all.
Go no contact, don't answer his calls anymore, delete him from the email, Facebook, etc. Change your number so you know for sure it will never be him.
Block him and ask anyone who knows him not to mention him infront of you. Or don't talk to anyone who knows him for a while.
I know you may not follow this advice. I wish I had followed it when it was given to me. I kept engaging and engaging. Most of what he said to me was a lie. When he asked about my plans it was not because he was interested, it was because he wanted to know I was still single to feed his ego. And countless examples....
Its not worth it, queenie. Big mistake, believing his words. What does his actions tell you? that is where the truth is.
"Because I care" yeahhh right.... sorry queenie.. none of his actions before show any care for you at all.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
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Ditto that to the enabling observation.... I'd chill for a while; hang out with other friends, alanon etc. Focus on other stuff that makes you happy now not vague possibilities that likely will never materialize if you continue to enable.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
He is trying to keep the door open with you so he has a handy enabler if he needs one.
Originally Posted by Still Waters
I agree, pure manipulation. He's just stringing you along, beating you down emotionally so he can get what he wants.
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His behavior is extremely narcissistic, queenie. Google "narcissism", read about narcissists requiring their "supply" of attention, read about what they do when that attention is denied them.
Whether the narcissism is addiction-related or just wired in, he is looking to you to puff him up.
My advice: stop it.
Love,
Bluejay
Whether the narcissism is addiction-related or just wired in, he is looking to you to puff him up.
My advice: stop it.
Love,
Bluejay
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
You might want to give this a read:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ain-stops.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ain-stops.html
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 119
First......((((queenie)))
It is really hard for us to let go of someone we love, even if they treat us badly. This time last year, I was packing my belongings and waiting for a friend to fly into town to help me move out of my A XBF's house. I was so devastated and heart broken. I could not figure out why he would say and do some of the most hurtful things to me. Even as I was packing and crying, I really believed that if I left that he would miraculously get better and we would get back together and be togehter forever. I believed that because he told me time and time again as I was getting prepared to move, that he just needed to be alone so that he could get his life together and then he would come running back to me. He even asked me not to date anyone for a year. I moved out Sept. 1, 2008 and continued talking to him every day. I was so torn because I could tell that even though I had left and was trying to detach and work on myself, it was really hard to move forward with him constantly calling and talking about all of his drama. By Sept. 20th, I suspected that he really wasn't working on himself, but instead was drinking more than ever. On September 23rd, I found out that he had been cheating on me the last 4 months of our relationship with a waitress at his favorite bar. I was devastated, but that was the day that I decided I was done with him. Everyone has a different threshold for pain and being done with something, mine was the infidelity with another woman. But let's be honest....he was cheating on me the whole time with a bottle of vodka. I know you are in pain, but I also know tht someday you will decide for yourself if having someone in your life whom causes you this kind of pain really deserves to be a part of your one wild and precious life. You'll figure out in your own time.
It is really hard for us to let go of someone we love, even if they treat us badly. This time last year, I was packing my belongings and waiting for a friend to fly into town to help me move out of my A XBF's house. I was so devastated and heart broken. I could not figure out why he would say and do some of the most hurtful things to me. Even as I was packing and crying, I really believed that if I left that he would miraculously get better and we would get back together and be togehter forever. I believed that because he told me time and time again as I was getting prepared to move, that he just needed to be alone so that he could get his life together and then he would come running back to me. He even asked me not to date anyone for a year. I moved out Sept. 1, 2008 and continued talking to him every day. I was so torn because I could tell that even though I had left and was trying to detach and work on myself, it was really hard to move forward with him constantly calling and talking about all of his drama. By Sept. 20th, I suspected that he really wasn't working on himself, but instead was drinking more than ever. On September 23rd, I found out that he had been cheating on me the last 4 months of our relationship with a waitress at his favorite bar. I was devastated, but that was the day that I decided I was done with him. Everyone has a different threshold for pain and being done with something, mine was the infidelity with another woman. But let's be honest....he was cheating on me the whole time with a bottle of vodka. I know you are in pain, but I also know tht someday you will decide for yourself if having someone in your life whom causes you this kind of pain really deserves to be a part of your one wild and precious life. You'll figure out in your own time.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London
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Oh Queenie Queenie Queenie. I want to sit here and say the same as TC999 et al because they're all right. And I know they're right. It's so clear from an outside point of view. So clear it's frightening. And yet I know I'd be like you if my xabf called. In your words I would 'Keep going back for more'. I don't know if you do it already, but the one thing I find really helpful as well as Al Anon is AA. I went to my second AA meeting last Friday and at the end of the meeting I exchanged numbers with two RAs - both men. Both had spoken at the meeting and listening to them was frightening. Both showed traits and similar experiences of my xabf. As I wanted to learn and understand a bit more about everything that had happened to me I exchanged numbers with them and met one of them last night for a (non-alcoholic) drink. I listened to his story. He listened to mine. Listening to my story he believed my ex believed he really did love me, but couldn't because how can someone who shows such self-disrespect and self-loathing project respect and love to anyone else. I asked whether he would have any feelings for this other woman. This lad told me she would be offering him something I hadn't. The one advantage she has over me is she has her own place where he can stay - or move in as he seems to have done - and it's in the same village, not 30 miles away like me. This lad said if she's putting a roof over his head practically for free and he's getting company 24/7 (xabf can't be on his own for long) then that would be all he sees in her.
And he warned me that if xabf rang, it wouldn't be long before the requests / demands / manipulation began.
I'm seeing the other RA this weekend.
You have to thank these guys for their honesty don't you. They're trying to help me save me from myself! Respect to that!
And he warned me that if xabf rang, it wouldn't be long before the requests / demands / manipulation began.
I'm seeing the other RA this weekend.
You have to thank these guys for their honesty don't you. They're trying to help me save me from myself! Respect to that!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Queenie have you ever listened to the Madonna song "The Devil Wouldn't Recognize You?" Great song. Download it if you can. It was hard for me to listen to at first but now it gives me strength and I think it's should be the recovering codie theme song! Not sure if that's what Madonna was going for, but...
On a serious note.
Aren't you tired of the pain, yet? He is playing alcoholic games with you so he can continue his drinking career. It really is that simple. I read the things he says to you and he IS my ex (just like most of the men I read about on here) and my ex was the manipulator of all manipulators. I think you deserve so much better than that.
I think you know good and well that nothing he says has any real meaning while he is an active addict and that most everything he does has no real motive or reason outside of protecting his addiction. You just have to find a way to accept it.
It's hard.
You will be done when the pain overrides the curiosity and the hope and the everything else.
Or when you're good and pissed off (like I was).
On a serious note.
Aren't you tired of the pain, yet? He is playing alcoholic games with you so he can continue his drinking career. It really is that simple. I read the things he says to you and he IS my ex (just like most of the men I read about on here) and my ex was the manipulator of all manipulators. I think you deserve so much better than that.
I think you know good and well that nothing he says has any real meaning while he is an active addict and that most everything he does has no real motive or reason outside of protecting his addiction. You just have to find a way to accept it.
It's hard.
You will be done when the pain overrides the curiosity and the hope and the everything else.
Or when you're good and pissed off (like I was).
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
Hi Queenie, again, your initial post talks about figuring him out. What he says, how he says it, why he says it. Are you tired yet? It's exhausting trying to get answers where none will be found. You can stay on this merry-go-round forever and you won't be able to move on until you will be able to stop trying to live in his head.
You need to examine within yourself why you keep engaging. He can say something as simple as the sky is green and you will mull that over for days, wondering why he just couldn't admit the sky is blue, just like in your world, or why he sees it that way when clearly, it's blue. The thing is, he's allowed to think it's green, or any other colour, and really it shouldn't matter to anyone why he feels that way. That's his reality. What's yours?
Remember, you have a choice. You can end it right here, right now, despite anything he says or does. Or, you can stay on the merry-go-round and drive yourself up the wall every time he does something that you don't understand. Can you imagine a lifetime of what's going on right now? Do you really want to live that way?
You need to examine within yourself why you keep engaging. He can say something as simple as the sky is green and you will mull that over for days, wondering why he just couldn't admit the sky is blue, just like in your world, or why he sees it that way when clearly, it's blue. The thing is, he's allowed to think it's green, or any other colour, and really it shouldn't matter to anyone why he feels that way. That's his reality. What's yours?
Remember, you have a choice. You can end it right here, right now, despite anything he says or does. Or, you can stay on the merry-go-round and drive yourself up the wall every time he does something that you don't understand. Can you imagine a lifetime of what's going on right now? Do you really want to live that way?
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
Hi queenie,
I am new to this board, and reading your post, gives me so much insight to my own life. Seriously.
What you are doing, is referred to N dipping. Trust me, I do it, and currently am. A narcissist can be just a horrible person. They really don't have the ability to care about us, or see us for anything more than someone who gives them what THEY want. Hmmm, sounding like my RAH. Anways the best thing to do is no contact. I have had to do this in the past, with the N in my life.
The problem with N dipping is it serves you no purpose what so ever, and builds the N up even more. (again what I have most recently done with my RAH.)
You will be going along just fine in your life, then start thinking what ifs. You contact them or vice versa, and then you have just N dipped, and you walk away feeling like someone just sucked the life right out of you. They walk away with self gratification that their supply level has been met.
Try to stay away from N dipping. If you have the opportunity to look up anything on Narcissism it is really interesting, and you will find there are quite a few in this world. Including my RAH. As I have just determined.
Hang in there.
I am new to this board, and reading your post, gives me so much insight to my own life. Seriously.
What you are doing, is referred to N dipping. Trust me, I do it, and currently am. A narcissist can be just a horrible person. They really don't have the ability to care about us, or see us for anything more than someone who gives them what THEY want. Hmmm, sounding like my RAH. Anways the best thing to do is no contact. I have had to do this in the past, with the N in my life.
The problem with N dipping is it serves you no purpose what so ever, and builds the N up even more. (again what I have most recently done with my RAH.)
You will be going along just fine in your life, then start thinking what ifs. You contact them or vice versa, and then you have just N dipped, and you walk away feeling like someone just sucked the life right out of you. They walk away with self gratification that their supply level has been met.
Try to stay away from N dipping. If you have the opportunity to look up anything on Narcissism it is really interesting, and you will find there are quite a few in this world. Including my RAH. As I have just determined.
Hang in there.
May it be
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A new day. Today I just see bright colors, in the small world of my dreams.
Posts: 384
look up anything on Narcissism it is really interesting, and you will find there are quite a few in this world. :rotfxko
it took a long.................... while...................... to figure this out, when they say "looking for a Few good men"... well they weren't exaggerating...
it took a long.................... while...................... to figure this out, when they say "looking for a Few good men"... well they weren't exaggerating...
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
Have you ever read any Melanie Beattie books about co-dependency.
Here is a link to her website HOME
I have not looked at all of it. It might be worth your time to get one of her books--I highly Codependent No More. I saw myself in almost every page. It woke me up and made me realize I needed to back away from the alcoholic and start healing myself and taking care of my kids. I needed to learn how to stop being co-dependent. It is hard when you have been doing it so long.
Here is a link to her website HOME
I have not looked at all of it. It might be worth your time to get one of her books--I highly Codependent No More. I saw myself in almost every page. It woke me up and made me realize I needed to back away from the alcoholic and start healing myself and taking care of my kids. I needed to learn how to stop being co-dependent. It is hard when you have been doing it so long.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
I actually read the other day that many addicts are narcissist. Obviously while they are actively using that makes sense, however many remain to be narcissist even after they stop using, seek treatment, and work a program.
I spoke with one of my friends, who I attend Al Anon with, who is also a counselor at the treatment facility here in my hometown that my RAH attended.
The reason we think that they remain narcissist, is because most started using and or abusing at a young age. Many lacked some degree of social upbringing, and between the disease, and the age at which their brain stopped maturing, they started functioning on a level of poor me, and learned the manipulation skills to achieve only what they want. I suppose its part of the addiction process in the brain, but it truly is devastating to those of us around the N.
I guess the question I have been holding on to recently is the "why does he do this to me?" "why can't he see how hurt I am?" and I already know the answers. Because I allow him to. Because he is so self centered he cares for no one but himself. Now I just need to apply it.
I suppose a good analogy to dealing with an N would be as simple as this.
You are at a busy intersection, during rush hour, and the light is red. If you choose to run the red light anyways, your odds of having/causing an accident are probably close to 99%. Right? Are you really going to make the decision to run the light anyways, throw yourself into oncoming traffic, and take the chance of getting injured? And whose decision is it? Completely yours/ours right?
Most sane people are going to say, well no of course I wouldn't do that,that is just asking for it.
However in our personal lives, we can apply that same scenario, already knowing the outcome, and yet.......we still do it. We still put ourselves right into the way of oncoming traffic and injury. And then try to blame the other person. Crazy eh?
Its the madness I'm telling ya.
We can't control another person speeding out of control, anymore than we can control oncoming traffic. We can only control ourselves, and protect ourselves from the injury we are sure to suffer if we don't detach and disengage sometimes.
Alrighty, now I am going to try to take some of my own analogy and apply it today. Geesh.
I spoke with one of my friends, who I attend Al Anon with, who is also a counselor at the treatment facility here in my hometown that my RAH attended.
The reason we think that they remain narcissist, is because most started using and or abusing at a young age. Many lacked some degree of social upbringing, and between the disease, and the age at which their brain stopped maturing, they started functioning on a level of poor me, and learned the manipulation skills to achieve only what they want. I suppose its part of the addiction process in the brain, but it truly is devastating to those of us around the N.
I guess the question I have been holding on to recently is the "why does he do this to me?" "why can't he see how hurt I am?" and I already know the answers. Because I allow him to. Because he is so self centered he cares for no one but himself. Now I just need to apply it.
I suppose a good analogy to dealing with an N would be as simple as this.
You are at a busy intersection, during rush hour, and the light is red. If you choose to run the red light anyways, your odds of having/causing an accident are probably close to 99%. Right? Are you really going to make the decision to run the light anyways, throw yourself into oncoming traffic, and take the chance of getting injured? And whose decision is it? Completely yours/ours right?
Most sane people are going to say, well no of course I wouldn't do that,that is just asking for it.
However in our personal lives, we can apply that same scenario, already knowing the outcome, and yet.......we still do it. We still put ourselves right into the way of oncoming traffic and injury. And then try to blame the other person. Crazy eh?
Its the madness I'm telling ya.
We can't control another person speeding out of control, anymore than we can control oncoming traffic. We can only control ourselves, and protect ourselves from the injury we are sure to suffer if we don't detach and disengage sometimes.
Alrighty, now I am going to try to take some of my own analogy and apply it today. Geesh.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
you guys have brought up some interesting points about narcissism. this site in particular has been enlightening: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) : Traits discussed
i find the section on "disappointing gift givers" pretty hilarious - xabf gave me a book about the history of hockey (a sport HE likes) and a dvd of HIS favorite movie for my birthday. :wtf2 perhaps because he never really cared about me or what i like?????
now here's my question: how can you tell the difference between someone who's self-centered and selfish, and a narcissist? i know what some of you are thinking - what's the point in labeling him? shouldn't all that matter be the fact that he treated me poorly? shouldn't that be enough?
i guess i have a hard time figuring things out so i guess it makes it easier for me to understand if i try to label something. it was a struggle for me to even come to terms with him being an alcoholic. sometimes i wonder if my perception of him really is true, or if i'm just grasping for something to label again.
i find the section on "disappointing gift givers" pretty hilarious - xabf gave me a book about the history of hockey (a sport HE likes) and a dvd of HIS favorite movie for my birthday. :wtf2 perhaps because he never really cared about me or what i like?????
now here's my question: how can you tell the difference between someone who's self-centered and selfish, and a narcissist? i know what some of you are thinking - what's the point in labeling him? shouldn't all that matter be the fact that he treated me poorly? shouldn't that be enough?
i guess i have a hard time figuring things out so i guess it makes it easier for me to understand if i try to label something. it was a struggle for me to even come to terms with him being an alcoholic. sometimes i wonder if my perception of him really is true, or if i'm just grasping for something to label again.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
For me, the biggest defining factor of the N's I know, is that they start out being perfect. A perfect friend, they love all the same stuff you do, they listen to you talk, they treat you like a Queen, no pun intended, and then once they have you hooked they start the D&D. (devalue and discard).
Basically you find yourself thinking, if they would just act like they used to. What happened to my best friend? Where is the man I fell in love with? Wtf did he just say to me, the man I fell in love with would never treat me this way.
Ya, well the reason why, is because you fell in love with "your image". The true Ns of the world do what is called mirroring. They listen to every word you say, they are like a chameleon and become the perfect person, the bait to catch you. Then after you are hooked the real N comes out.
If you can step back from the situation, and truly see that in a person then there is a strong chance they are an N.
Many people have N traits, if not all of us. However someone lacking in compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, rarely if ever apologizes, is usually an N.
It is so very destructive, because not only do you not recognize this person you fell so hard for, but you discover they never felt the same, it was all a sham, and the person you thought you loved, was a ghost. That person doesn't really exist. It is simply an image you fell in love with, that the N uses as a smoke screen to get the narcissistic supply they need to make themselves feel empowered, grandiose, and perfect in their twisted worlds. They prey on the ability to make the victim feel hopeless, out of control, crazy, because that is how they feel, but they must project it on to someone else so they don't ever have to face up to it, or deal with it, because quite frankly they really don't have the ability to see it in themselves anyways. It is a serious personality disorder.
Basically you find yourself thinking, if they would just act like they used to. What happened to my best friend? Where is the man I fell in love with? Wtf did he just say to me, the man I fell in love with would never treat me this way.
Ya, well the reason why, is because you fell in love with "your image". The true Ns of the world do what is called mirroring. They listen to every word you say, they are like a chameleon and become the perfect person, the bait to catch you. Then after you are hooked the real N comes out.
If you can step back from the situation, and truly see that in a person then there is a strong chance they are an N.
Many people have N traits, if not all of us. However someone lacking in compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, rarely if ever apologizes, is usually an N.
It is so very destructive, because not only do you not recognize this person you fell so hard for, but you discover they never felt the same, it was all a sham, and the person you thought you loved, was a ghost. That person doesn't really exist. It is simply an image you fell in love with, that the N uses as a smoke screen to get the narcissistic supply they need to make themselves feel empowered, grandiose, and perfect in their twisted worlds. They prey on the ability to make the victim feel hopeless, out of control, crazy, because that is how they feel, but they must project it on to someone else so they don't ever have to face up to it, or deal with it, because quite frankly they really don't have the ability to see it in themselves anyways. It is a serious personality disorder.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
TC…so you’re saying he’s trying to keep lines of communication open just in case he doesn’t find someone else? Because he thinks I’m so hopeless and desperate and I’ll just be here waiting for him? I guess I have been. I’m taking his calls. I keep going back for more. I don't know why. Hanging on to the good times, all the fun and happy things we did together, his good side...
Yes.
Oh yes, even if I parted, it has been months of hanging on to the good times and seeing reality in disbelief.
A common friend told me "of course" ex had felt something for me. That one day he cried at the office and asked this friend to go out and he cried. It hurts to know some of that may have been real. Or perhaps he was crying just like he did after the verbal abuse. Crying his heart out. Al Pacino would pale in acting skills. Then he goes, doing the same exact thing. Madness.
By now I have learned i have been the same way, falling on the same mistakes. Just as this is my bottom in my own time, their bottom will come one day. If they are lucky. That is a law of life, you don't learn a lesson? well, here goes another test, and this time if you don't learn, there will be more at stake you lose and much more pain.
Today I prefer to go for the N version above. It was all a show to attract an enabler. People just don't change that fast. I think its a mix between N, alcoholism and just being a jerk. I recall him being a jerk totally sober, so alcohol was no longer my excuse....
I realized I was addicted to this person that no longer exists. So its just like AA. JUST FOR TODAY I won't contact ex. JUST FOR TODAY I will be patient with myself if I feel blue or miss the good times. JUST FOR TODAY I will accept whatever God-HP sends my way. JUST FOR TODAY I won't accept invitations to engange in things that make me feel bad. JUST FOR TODAY I take care of myself.
After going crazier than I am trying to figure him out, I started seeing him as a madman. He does not know either why he does what he does. He is crazy. If I see a crazy person I know he is gone somewhere. I don't try to figure him out. I just walk away. This has helped me stop trying to find out the why's... the only answer to that is "he is an addict and addicts destroy, its the only thing they know and will keep doing, they are experts".
Queenie all I can say is enough will be enough.
And that there are many WONDERFUL MEN waiting for you, who can offer friendship and romance if you decide to be free
I hated to listen to this, I wanted my ex, no one else!! but now I know I was settling for nothing, and there are people that can offer you many wonderful gifts.
But you need to allow yourself to receive them first....
Yes.
Oh yes, even if I parted, it has been months of hanging on to the good times and seeing reality in disbelief.
A common friend told me "of course" ex had felt something for me. That one day he cried at the office and asked this friend to go out and he cried. It hurts to know some of that may have been real. Or perhaps he was crying just like he did after the verbal abuse. Crying his heart out. Al Pacino would pale in acting skills. Then he goes, doing the same exact thing. Madness.
By now I have learned i have been the same way, falling on the same mistakes. Just as this is my bottom in my own time, their bottom will come one day. If they are lucky. That is a law of life, you don't learn a lesson? well, here goes another test, and this time if you don't learn, there will be more at stake you lose and much more pain.
Today I prefer to go for the N version above. It was all a show to attract an enabler. People just don't change that fast. I think its a mix between N, alcoholism and just being a jerk. I recall him being a jerk totally sober, so alcohol was no longer my excuse....
I realized I was addicted to this person that no longer exists. So its just like AA. JUST FOR TODAY I won't contact ex. JUST FOR TODAY I will be patient with myself if I feel blue or miss the good times. JUST FOR TODAY I will accept whatever God-HP sends my way. JUST FOR TODAY I won't accept invitations to engange in things that make me feel bad. JUST FOR TODAY I take care of myself.
After going crazier than I am trying to figure him out, I started seeing him as a madman. He does not know either why he does what he does. He is crazy. If I see a crazy person I know he is gone somewhere. I don't try to figure him out. I just walk away. This has helped me stop trying to find out the why's... the only answer to that is "he is an addict and addicts destroy, its the only thing they know and will keep doing, they are experts".
Queenie all I can say is enough will be enough.
And that there are many WONDERFUL MEN waiting for you, who can offer friendship and romance if you decide to be free
I hated to listen to this, I wanted my ex, no one else!! but now I know I was settling for nothing, and there are people that can offer you many wonderful gifts. But you need to allow yourself to receive them first....
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Hi Queenie. I am you and you are me. It's scary how we are ALL going thru the same things in our lives.
Yes.
The same thing he is trying to get out of every relationship with every other person in his life: Assurance that you will provide him with support, familiarity, comfort, someone to fall back on if his other enablers and possible enablers fall short of what he needs.
I am glad you are in this place in your life. But do you realize you have jumped back onto HIS rollercoaster and you're not enjoying the ride?
Yes it's possible, but consider your experience with this person and ask yourself "Does it even matter what he is feeling?"
In all life and with all people there is ALWAYS something else going on. All of us have more than one motivation for everything we do. Some of our motivations and reasons for doing the things we do are stronger than others. His behavior probably stems from many different feelings and needs and wants.
Try to think of it this way: his addiction does not define him, it affects him. In other words, his addiction is not necessarily the only thing that motivates him but it is the STRONGEST influence in his life. At this point in his life, he has to mold EVERY part of himself (his feelings, his desires, his behavior, his environment, and his choices regarding who he associates with) around his addiction. He may in fact love you and care about you, etc but his addiction is DEFINITELY the stronger influence behind his behavior and the choices he has to make.
Is this all a load of bullsh*t?
if he’s trying to manipulate me, what is he getting out of it from me?
I’m not groveling, I’m not begging for him to take him back, I’m no longer blaming myself for everything that happened
is it possible he’s genuinely concerned?
or is something else going on?
Try to think of it this way: his addiction does not define him, it affects him. In other words, his addiction is not necessarily the only thing that motivates him but it is the STRONGEST influence in his life. At this point in his life, he has to mold EVERY part of himself (his feelings, his desires, his behavior, his environment, and his choices regarding who he associates with) around his addiction. He may in fact love you and care about you, etc but his addiction is DEFINITELY the stronger influence behind his behavior and the choices he has to make.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by aboutdone 
For me, the biggest defining factor of the N's I know, is that they start out being perfect. A perfect friend, they love all the same stuff you do, they listen to you talk, they treat you like a Queen, no pun intended, and then once they have you hooked they start the D&D. (devalue and discard).
Basically you find yourself thinking, if they would just act like they used to. What happened to my best friend? Where is the man I fell in love with? Wtf did he just say to me, the man I fell in love with would never treat me this way.
Ya, well the reason why, is because you fell in love with "your image". The true Ns of the world do what is called mirroring. They listen to every word you say, they are like a chameleon and become the perfect person, the bait to catch you. Then after you are hooked the real N comes out.
If you can step back from the situation, and truly see that in a person then there is a strong chance they are an N.
Many people have N traits, if not all of us. However someone lacking in compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, rarely if ever apologizes, is usually an N.
It is so very destructive, because not only do you not recognize this person you fell so hard for, but you discover they never felt the same, it was all a sham, and the person you thought you loved, was a ghost. That person doesn't really exist. It is simply an image you fell in love with, that the N uses as a smoke screen to get the narcissistic supply they need to make themselves feel empowered, grandiose, and perfect in their twisted worlds. They prey on the ability to make the victim feel hopeless, out of control, crazy, because that is how they feel, but they must project it on to someone else so they don't ever have to face up to it, or deal with it, because quite frankly they really don't have the ability to see it in themselves anyways. It is a serious personality disorder.
Basically you find yourself thinking, if they would just act like they used to. What happened to my best friend? Where is the man I fell in love with? Wtf did he just say to me, the man I fell in love with would never treat me this way.
Ya, well the reason why, is because you fell in love with "your image". The true Ns of the world do what is called mirroring. They listen to every word you say, they are like a chameleon and become the perfect person, the bait to catch you. Then after you are hooked the real N comes out.
If you can step back from the situation, and truly see that in a person then there is a strong chance they are an N.
Many people have N traits, if not all of us. However someone lacking in compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, rarely if ever apologizes, is usually an N.
It is so very destructive, because not only do you not recognize this person you fell so hard for, but you discover they never felt the same, it was all a sham, and the person you thought you loved, was a ghost. That person doesn't really exist. It is simply an image you fell in love with, that the N uses as a smoke screen to get the narcissistic supply they need to make themselves feel empowered, grandiose, and perfect in their twisted worlds. They prey on the ability to make the victim feel hopeless, out of control, crazy, because that is how they feel, but they must project it on to someone else so they don't ever have to face up to it, or deal with it, because quite frankly they really don't have the ability to see it in themselves anyways. It is a serious personality disorder.
Many people have N traits, if not all of us. However someone lacking in compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, rarely if ever apologizes, is usually an N.
i just feel like none of it ever existed. him, the relationship, his love for me, none of it seems real. i guess that's because it wasn't. it really hurts me to think back over everything and realize that it was all a sham.
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