Thanks for the help you've given me!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Thanks for the help you've given me!
Hello:
I've only been on this site for about a week, and I have found it enormously helpful. I don't know where I picked up the quote "pay attention to their actions, not their words", but it REALLY meant a lot to me and I used just that comment today when talking with my daughter. She called me this morning, and was blathering on as usual about how she's doing better, moving on with her life, identifying goals, blah-blah-blah. So I politely heard her out (wondering if she thinks I believe this story she's delivered time and time again), and then I said, "You know, your dad and I are paying attention to what you are doing, not what you are saying". There was a brief stunned silence on her end of the line, which told me that phrase really hit home.
And then, she agreed that of course, we'd be wanting to see actions, not words.
Now I'm not so naive or self-deluding as to think that this remark will constitute any sort of epiphany for her, but it certainly gave her pause and hopefully will have put her on notice that we are not going to continue being passive receptacles for her baloney.
Thanks to all of you who are helping me move forward, giving me the wherewithal to start dealing with my daughter in a pro-active, open and forthright way. Once, she distressed me so that I actually avoided speaking with her when at all possible. Now I have the courage to take her calls and to speak with her from my mind, not my bruised and aching heart. I know what she is doing, and why she is doing it. Armed with his knowledge, I can both protect myself, and, perhaps, even, make some small moves toward helping her, simply by disengaging from her efforts to manipulate me
and perpetuate her fantasy.
Knowledge can give one incredible power and resolve.
I've only been on this site for about a week, and I have found it enormously helpful. I don't know where I picked up the quote "pay attention to their actions, not their words", but it REALLY meant a lot to me and I used just that comment today when talking with my daughter. She called me this morning, and was blathering on as usual about how she's doing better, moving on with her life, identifying goals, blah-blah-blah. So I politely heard her out (wondering if she thinks I believe this story she's delivered time and time again), and then I said, "You know, your dad and I are paying attention to what you are doing, not what you are saying". There was a brief stunned silence on her end of the line, which told me that phrase really hit home.
And then, she agreed that of course, we'd be wanting to see actions, not words.
Now I'm not so naive or self-deluding as to think that this remark will constitute any sort of epiphany for her, but it certainly gave her pause and hopefully will have put her on notice that we are not going to continue being passive receptacles for her baloney.
Thanks to all of you who are helping me move forward, giving me the wherewithal to start dealing with my daughter in a pro-active, open and forthright way. Once, she distressed me so that I actually avoided speaking with her when at all possible. Now I have the courage to take her calls and to speak with her from my mind, not my bruised and aching heart. I know what she is doing, and why she is doing it. Armed with his knowledge, I can both protect myself, and, perhaps, even, make some small moves toward helping her, simply by disengaging from her efforts to manipulate me
and perpetuate her fantasy.Knowledge can give one incredible power and resolve.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
welcome electra-
another saying that has helped me in many a sticky situation is:
say what you mean but don't say it mean.
it's helpful to move into a mode of dispassioned observer with our addicts and face the emotional aspect through self-work/therapy/communication with those who understand.
another saying that has helped me in many a sticky situation is:
say what you mean but don't say it mean.
it's helpful to move into a mode of dispassioned observer with our addicts and face the emotional aspect through self-work/therapy/communication with those who understand.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Hello Naive:
Thanks for sending me this useful quote. It's good to have these succinct but intensely instructive phrases in one's mind when communicating with our beloved, but very dysfunctional children.
Electa
Thanks for sending me this useful quote. It's good to have these succinct but intensely instructive phrases in one's mind when communicating with our beloved, but very dysfunctional children.
Electa
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
That's wonderful that you are now able to step back a bit and hear the sub context of her proclamations about her life.
It is a very useful skill to have. When you are able to do this you can avoid taking the promises of change less personally. That doesn't mean that everyone in your life will require this detachment or that everyone should be thought to have ulterior motives or not be believed just the person or persons who have 'earned' this distinction through their behavior.
When I began doing this with my XABF I found that I was able to hear his ramblings and converse with him in a more relaxed way because I spared myself the emotional results. When I stepped back and could see how hard he was working at convincing me he needed money for something or other or needed me to save him from some consequence or other I was also able to see how hard he was working to convince and rationalize it for himself. Now, when I didn't buy in or I told him I was watching the actions and not the words by saying "We'll see" or "I'll see how that works out before I pitch in on it" etc, he would get rather agitated. All that effort for nothing you see.
You hang in there! Recovery can be slow and plodding at times but anything worth getting through can be, right?
Alice
It is a very useful skill to have. When you are able to do this you can avoid taking the promises of change less personally. That doesn't mean that everyone in your life will require this detachment or that everyone should be thought to have ulterior motives or not be believed just the person or persons who have 'earned' this distinction through their behavior.
When I began doing this with my XABF I found that I was able to hear his ramblings and converse with him in a more relaxed way because I spared myself the emotional results. When I stepped back and could see how hard he was working at convincing me he needed money for something or other or needed me to save him from some consequence or other I was also able to see how hard he was working to convince and rationalize it for himself. Now, when I didn't buy in or I told him I was watching the actions and not the words by saying "We'll see" or "I'll see how that works out before I pitch in on it" etc, he would get rather agitated. All that effort for nothing you see.
You hang in there! Recovery can be slow and plodding at times but anything worth getting through can be, right?
Alice
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 14
Electa, Thank you for sharing your experience. I am in this position currently... except with my mother. I don't know how to move past it, but I have hope that I will. I would love to "have the courage to take her calls and to speak with her from my mind, not my bruised and aching heart." Thanks for giving me hope.
Once, she distressed me so that I actually avoided speaking with her when at all possible.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I know what LAC means. I've done it so many times, gone no contact with one person or another. My brother, my ex-BFs, other family. It's so hard when you love someone and they cause you so much pain...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Hello 'Alice!
Wonderful words from you. I get daily encouragement from this site, it's postings, and the messages from folks like you. Its as though I am struggling through a wilderness, in search of a green and wonderful place, and people are handing me drinks of cool water and telling me to "keep up the fight".
And I loved your phrasing (because it SO describes my feelings) about your conversations with you XABF, how you could hear out his ramblings in a calm, detached way. I still hadn't gotten to the point where I could speculate on what my daughter was thinking or doing when she was shoveling out her line of baloney, but of course you are right, she is saying what she wants to believe herself as much as she wants me to believe it. It is as though, if I believe it, somehow that reinforces her own belief, which of course is fragile and in constant need of "shoring up".
Even before I joined this forum (and what a blessing it has been for me) I thought to myself that our daughter is living in a fantasy world. Your message to me has validated that observation. I have found that this "fantasy world" is perhaps the most if not one of the most, salient characteristics of addiction-such a standard and well known attribute of addiction that it amazes me I didn't put two and two together before I found this site, and it's members.
Thanks again!
Electa
Wonderful words from you. I get daily encouragement from this site, it's postings, and the messages from folks like you. Its as though I am struggling through a wilderness, in search of a green and wonderful place, and people are handing me drinks of cool water and telling me to "keep up the fight".
And I loved your phrasing (because it SO describes my feelings) about your conversations with you XABF, how you could hear out his ramblings in a calm, detached way. I still hadn't gotten to the point where I could speculate on what my daughter was thinking or doing when she was shoveling out her line of baloney, but of course you are right, she is saying what she wants to believe herself as much as she wants me to believe it. It is as though, if I believe it, somehow that reinforces her own belief, which of course is fragile and in constant need of "shoring up".
Even before I joined this forum (and what a blessing it has been for me) I thought to myself that our daughter is living in a fantasy world. Your message to me has validated that observation. I have found that this "fantasy world" is perhaps the most if not one of the most, salient characteristics of addiction-such a standard and well known attribute of addiction that it amazes me I didn't put two and two together before I found this site, and it's members.
Thanks again!
Electa
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Hello LAC:
Step by step, you can get to this place. There will be setbacks, and regrets for things you said, or didn't say, but you'll move forward. Look for a link on this site, someone posted, on "detachment". It's a lengthy piece, that requires careful reading so as to absorb it fully. It goes very deeply into the subject of detachment and requires the reader to look into their own reasons for their attachment, why they are thinking, and acting, they way they do. I loved this article, and copied it off so I can return to it time and time again as I practice my new skills.
Keep hanging in there. Remember that your love for your loved one can cripple you both if not deployed in a positive way. I really feel for you, because I have been through horrendous struggles with my mentally ill mother. It's a long and tawdry story, but it all worked out in the end. We have as good a relationship as I could ever have hoped, now.
Electa
Step by step, you can get to this place. There will be setbacks, and regrets for things you said, or didn't say, but you'll move forward. Look for a link on this site, someone posted, on "detachment". It's a lengthy piece, that requires careful reading so as to absorb it fully. It goes very deeply into the subject of detachment and requires the reader to look into their own reasons for their attachment, why they are thinking, and acting, they way they do. I loved this article, and copied it off so I can return to it time and time again as I practice my new skills.
Keep hanging in there. Remember that your love for your loved one can cripple you both if not deployed in a positive way. I really feel for you, because I have been through horrendous struggles with my mentally ill mother. It's a long and tawdry story, but it all worked out in the end. We have as good a relationship as I could ever have hoped, now.
Electa
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Good job, Electa!! Isn't that wonderful to be able to breathe again!? It's so empowering when you realize that detachment is really the only thing that works for EVERYONE concerned. Not only are you given 'permission' to detach, you are encouraged to do so! Then you are given the tools to do it right now....today! It's not EASY but on many levels it is easiER than the alternative. The hard part comes when you see the addict realize they've hit a NEW brick wall. Get ready for some new & improved quacking!!
(((Hugs))) to you.
Oh, and I"m with you 100% on the gratitude part of your post. SR is the BEST.
(((Hugs))) to you.
Oh, and I"m with you 100% on the gratitude part of your post. SR is the BEST.
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