whyamistaying

I posted before how my AH lost his license for 1 year (due to DUIs). There is no public transporation that will get him to work at 6:00 a.m.

A driver was hired, but the driver stopped showing up.

So, I am for several weeks now taking AH to work. We pack the kids up in the car and I drive 45 minutes to get to his work at 6:00 a.m. When we get back, the kids are awake.

I went to an Alanon. I talked to someone afterwards and told her I was being codependent by driving him, but that there was no "solution" and he'd lose his job. But I knew I was being codependent. It was recommended to not drive him.

I thought about it for several days, that I wanted to do it, but I was scared. We have a mortgage. We havekids.

So Thurs he came home and flipped out that he had no beer. Flipped out. He was ranting and starting a fight that he never has any money, and he took the credit card and bought beer. He drank the entire 18 pack in one night.

The next morning I had work. Half way to work I noticed he had taken the car seats out of the car. (He was planning on driving my kids unlicensed and uninsured) to get beer-I assume. I came home and once again disabled my car since my keys had yet again, nowhere to be found. So he couldn't drive with the kids.

I came home from work and he had walked to the store with the kids to buy beer.

The horrible part is that when he was sober once when I drive him to work, I told him I was working on my own 12 steps and that I can't continue to do everything for him, because maybe if I hadn't done what I had done, he wouldn't be in this place now. Anyways, he threw it in my face and it is so hurtful. That I confided in him and he used it against me.

So...I told him I wasn't going to drive him to work. That yet again, he had chosen beer before his family and he can find his own way there. That it is really hard on the kids.

I am scared to death of this boundary I have made, but I do think I need to make it. Does anyone agree? He has 2 DUIs. He is unemployable in his field if he loses his job. I work and make enough to pay the mortgage...but I feel like this is a big turning point. A make it or break it. Because he values his work and thinks he is wonderful at it. That if his job in jeopardy...I don't know. I'm scared and I want to drive him, but I shouldn't. I need reassurance.

Today he is not drinking. We are still not talking. Should I remind him today or do you think I should still drive him?

Still Waters

Get used to it, it's a well worn tactic. Sad to say.

Only you can say what works for you. Heck, if I knew I was making plans to leave him and it would only be a few more weeks of me driving him to keep the peace...I'd probably do it. Codie or not.

ItsmeAlice

Boundaries are big formidable things. They have to be. Now there are some chihuahuas out there than could guard Fort Knox, but they are not the norm. To get the job done you need something with some teeth. Something that drips with consequences if it's challenged...for both of you.

My XABF could not stand not having access to the bank accounts and brought it up in snide little ways on a regular basis, but that dog was not going anywhere no matter how many cookies you threw at it. He received his allowance as agreed. Sometimes, he'd run short of cash and work me over for more. Sometimes, he'd get money from me for some essential thing he had to have, and sure enough that item just wasn't as important when he rolled by the liquor store. I had to learn how to react to these challenges of my boundary, but that boundary was not removed. That dog worked for me and gave me the financial security I needed to get out of the relationship.

I think your next boundary ought to bark something like this....No job, no residency. Find a way to get there and keep your job or go.

I think you're doing great!! You are working through this as best you can and trying to find ways to get control over your life without continuing to try to control him.

I've been reminded that my XABF is a grown man and not a child. I have to act like an adult and take care of my business. He has to do the same for himself whether he likes it or not.

Keep working at it, you're getting there!!

Alice

splendra

Be very gentle with yourself and do what is best for you and your children.

Perhaps you think that not taking him to work would make him wake up and want to stop drinking. If this is what your motive is you might want to rethink it.

Boundaries are not about making them do something they are about protecting you and your children.

For me my top priority would be that my children not be left alone with a drunk...

Freedom1990

Whoa there! Back up the truck, hold the mayo please!

My experience has been when I put the weight of the world on my shoulders and assume responsibility for another person's actions, I'm in for a world of hurt.

In your case, not only have you been carrying guilt that isn't your own, he threw it right back in your face because he knew you already felt guilty.

None of us are God. None of us have the power to 'make' someone else end up in a situation where consequences have caught up with them.

Have we enabled in the past? Certainly.

In my books, the Creator is the only one who knows what the future holds.

How do you know he hasn't had to go through every thing he's been through as a part of his total life experience?

You don't.

Put the big stick down.

Carrying around guilt that wasn't mine drove me to make some pretty poor decisions in my life.

:ghug2 :ghug2

laurie6781

His problems are NOT your fault!!!! You didn't pour the booze down his throat, you didn't force him into the car, start the engine and make him drive. He CHOSE to do these things and now he has consequences.

They are HIS CONSEQUENCES not yours. 1) If your motives for setting the boundary of not driving him is because it is too disruptive to the children and it is not your responsibility if great. 2) If your motive is that this might wake him up, then as said above, time to 're check' your motives for setting this boundary.

I personally think your motives are basically #1, and if so, then you have every right to set that boundary. It is for you and the children.

I too, would not leave my children with a drunk that would walk them to the beer store and back just to get beer.

Only you can decide what will make you more comfortable. I M H O disabling the car was a very good decision, and should the 'keys' mysteriously reappear I would certainly take custody of them and hide them in the future.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

naive

whyamistaying-

i think its important that you stop driving him to work. we have been around this issue once or twice before, no?

i feel a control struggle going on and i also feel your good sense of knowing your own limits. i would drop the control struggle and realize that you are powerless over alcohol. it doesn't have to be a fight. you are powerless. you can't stop him from drinking and i know you know that. so, you have to set some limits because you are carrying the bulk of the work burden on your shoulders and if you don't say no, you will perhaps collapse.

so fine. he gets himself to work or he doesn't. you can keep the house going on your job.

he might force you into a situation of calling the police with the driving with the kids potential.

you are in a bad spot and something has to budge. you shouldn't have to make rules for your husband to follow but that unfortunately is what is happening in order to ensure the children's safety.

i personally don't see how you two are going to be able to co-exist if you stop driving him. i think there will be too much tension in the house. it doesn't feel healthy.

it's a tough spot. i wish there was somewhere else you and the kids could go to. is there?

my thoughts are with you. stay safe, stay alert and stay sane. i sense some confusion in you and remind you to turn it all over to your hp. i pray you find divine guidance in these troubled times.

naive

whyamistaying

Thanks everyone. My motive is mixed, to be honest. This past week, it was really hard on me and the kids driving him. I had a ton of work to do and usually do it at night and couldn't complete it because I had to get to sleep since I knew I would be up early to drive him. Also, the kids' schedules are messed up because they are up so early and by Wed they were really cranky.

Also, I have extreme resentment and hate driving him. Have hated it in the beginning. I don't want to drive him. So, when he drinks it makes me mad because why should I wake up early and adjust my job and kids when he hasn't changed?

I've always said I don't want to drive him. People "in real life" think I should suck it up and I don't want to. But I did.

Thurs when he did this, after work, he wasn't alone with the kids. Then Friday I worked part day so he had the kids then. When I got home and my daughter told me that daddy bought beer and put it in her backpack, I asked my mom if she would watch the kids on the days I work. So, that problem will end.

As for a place other than home to go to, he won't leave. I leave (with kids) when he drinks. Now we are never home and it is hard. We were gone last week Friday (swimming), Saturday (beach), and Sunday (bday party). Then, this Thurs, I left and took the kids out to eat. Friday, after work, I took the kids and did errands while he slept. Today, I am home with them. The problem is, without a license and without a car...he goes no where. He doesn't leave the house. So we continually have to leave.

As for the keys, they still haven't showed up. I have 2 fuses locked, along with the only credit card we have, in safe. Once I find the keys, I will put them in there too.

As far as the hurtful comments, he has had said stuff in the past, but to say that he thought I was working on myself, and throw stuff back in my face...it really hurt.

Still Waters

In my opinion, he wants it to hurt so you'll doubt yourself. Takes the focus off of him.

splendra

I think if it makes you feel like this then you ought not drive him. It is not fair that you and the kids always have to be the one who has to leave it is your house too right?

What would you say to your best friend or your sister in your situation?

LaTeeDa

You named yourself 'whyamistaying,' but I don't think you have honestly answered that question yet.

I don't see it as a problem of driving him, or not driving him. Disabling or not disabling cars, unable to trust him alone with his own children, 'choosing' beer over his family....

These are all symptoms of a dysfunctional alcoholic/codependent relationship. You are in the middle of a power struggle. You still believe, either consciously or subconsciously, you can get what you want. Him to stop drinking and be the husband and father you want him to be. He is proving to you every day that he is not willing to do that, so you ratchet up the pressure to make it more and more difficult for him to keep drinking. Yet he continues drinking.

So, honestly, why are you staying? I'll know you'll say you need his income, you don't want to break up the family, etc. These are all the things I said, too. The real answer is you still think you can win. You believe that if you just hold your ground long enough, he will finally break and do things your way. Until you are willing to give up the idea that you have any control over him at all, you will continue reacting, struggling, and resenting.

I say all this not as a judgment, but from my own experience. I know how it feels to be where you are and it very much sucks. I hope you get to the acceptance stage sooner than I did.

L

whyamistaying

AH called his boss and asked if he can be 10 minutes late to work, which was fine. I didn't drive him to work this morning. AH rides his bike 5 miles to the train and then takes the train to work, then bikes to his work from the train station.

I woke up refreshed. The kids are not grumpy. But I feel horrible. I feel so guilty for making him bike ride in the dark at 4:30 a.m.

He told me he can't drink and he was going to try harder. I asked him what his plan was and he doesn't have any. That's quacking, right?

LaTeeDa-I don't want to drive him because I feel resentment when I find out he drinks. I feel how can he do this to us, plus it disrupts our schedule. So that is my main reason for not wanting to drive. However, I think, honestly, there is a part of me that thinks the more I stop doing the quicker he will reach his bottom. Which is probably wrong too.

ItsMeAlice-I took your advice. I gave him his weekly allowance in one shot (before he would spend it w/in a few days). I told him if he borrowed or ran out of money, it wasn't coming from our account. He thought this was "fair."

So now I don't have to hear about him telling me he doesn't have any money and now I don't have to drive him to work. But I am riddled with guilt... a feeling of how could I do that to my husband?

Tonight is my Alanon meeting. My parents will watch the kids. I am going to ask about a sponsor. I have no idea how many times you have to go before you get one, but I do think I need to work on my anger. As much as he has done to us or I have let him do to us and how emotionally, financially, lying he has done....and here I feel bad because he had to ride a bike in the dark. That's crazy. I guess I'm thinking of a "normal" relationship, where the wife would do things like that for her husband.

Thanks everyone.

Learn2Live

Hi whyamistaying

Congratulations! You have now seen the positive effects of setting your personal boundaries. You also have the extra benefit of seeing the great results of setting boundaries for your children! This is AWESOME!

Everybody's going to say, "Ohhhhh, don't feel horrible. Don't feel guilty!" Easier said than done, right? Feel whatever you feel but connect the feelings to what you KNOW.

But, here's what my big sister taught me:
NO GUILT!
Stay aware of yourself and your feelings. Whenever you start to feel guilt, or whenever you notice you are acting out of guilt, stop and say NO GUILT! Start saying it out loud to yourself. Yell it when you're feeling really guilty. I'm being serious here.

GUILT IS POISON.

Also, you are not MAKING anyone do ANYTHING! You do not have the power to control anyone. The person you are married to is not your 5-year old who you make wash his hands before dinner. The person you are married to is a GROWN adult whose responsibility it is to ensure he has transportation to work. And that's what he is doing-he's riding his bike and taking the train. He's fulfilling his responsibility. Let him. It doesn't sound like anything to feel guilty or bad about.

You choose to keep your license. He chose not to. He chose this type of transportation for himself. How does this have anything to do with you? You are his spouse, not his fairy godmother. Nor is his transportation to work your responsibility. You know what my brother told me when I felt guilty and tried to "help" him? "Mind your own business!" Wow, that hurt, but he is right.

Anyway, riding your bike 5 miles to the train doesn't sound unhealthy to me at all. Believe it or not, there was recently a time when EVERYONE walked and rode bikes long distances to get to work. In fact, practically EVERYONE in the Netherlands still does this same exact thing.

It's not going to kill your spouse and is probably more healthy for him to do this than drive. He's getting exercise; it's good for his heart!

Oh, and about the anger thing: I have been working on mine too. Mine is very severe and abusive. Anyway, start with this: When you find yourself angry, stop and breathe. Then, ask yourself "What are my expectations of others that are not being met?"

ItsmeAlice

Ok, now you got me....here comes the tough love....opt out now if you can't bear it...

This guilty crap has to stop!! You married an alcoholic. You made a vow that you would support him in sickness and in health, NOT that you would suffer all consequences of his illegal actions. Your 'support' is already coming to him in the form of raising his children, working and adding to the family income, managing the household, and emotional encouragement for him to turn his life around. His license was taken away from him as punishment for committing a crime. It is a crime in this country to drive while intoxicated. We do not allow stand-ins for punishment. The person who committed the crime has to face the consequence. Leave him to face it for cripes sake!!!! Obviously, he has a way to get to work on his own power in his own way. Just let him do it and serve his time.

The reasons he felt justified in driving while intoxicated were just not good enough and that's that. You did not put him in this situation. Had you been the one to tell him that it was okay for him to drive while intoxicated, I could understand you owing him a ride to work and feeling bad about his circumstances, BUT YOU DIDN'T, so it does not fall on you. What is it going to take to get you to let go of this guilt. If he committed a murder and had to do time for it, I suppose you would sit in the jail cell for him because you felt bad for not stopping him somehow.

Now, I'm getting fired up, so I need take a breath here....

Keeping him from the family finances and giving him his weekly lunch money, travel cash, etc in the form of allowance may be just what you need to do. It worked for me in that I could be certain the bills were paid and no one went without utilities and food. I had to do that because he drained the account and left us without groceries. Oh, and the complaining about having nothing he liked to eat in the house for a week made me want to decapitate the man. Looking back, I did what I had to do to bring some security to my life, but in a relationship with two grown adults, that should not be an issue. Some folks like to shop and others can be frugal so in many relationships money is a sticky issue, but when all go hungry so one can be wasted on beer is in no way acceptable to me. Remind yourself of this if you start feeling guilty because he spent all his money and can't afford his drug of choice or can't afford lunch and wants whatever cash you have. Once you draw a boundary, that's it, it's drawn. I had to learn and relearn this lesson myself. It's hard to do.

Get yourself to that meeting, and I think a sponsor is a great idea!! You are scrambling to get your footing in recovery and once you do you are going to start feeling a lot stronger.

I am rooting for you 100%...even if I bark my tough love at you, honey...rooting 100%!

Alice

Thumper

We are going through so many of the same things. I filed for divorce to force my husband to leave. At that he decided to go to detox and treatment instead. That was two weeks ago. He's still there and everything is still a mess.

I read here and gain understanding everyday. I've started Al-Anon. I know I'll get strong and clear someday. I must. So will you. :ghug3

LaTeeDa

More tough love coming--I warned you.

The point I was making was you haven't let go. Until you do, you will continue to suffer. BTW, letting go doesn't have to mean leaving. It just means you let go of the idea that you have any influence or control over a grown man who is making his own choices.

You didn't make a boundary, you are trying to manipulate him into doing what you want him to do. How can I tell? Because you are still resenting him for drinking and feeling guilty about his consequences.

When you start making decisions based on what is the best thing for you and your children, and stop concerning yourself over how those decisions will affect him, then you will be setting boundaries. Until then, you are just dancing the alcoholic-codependent tango. And on and on it goes.

Next you will say you have to consider how your actions affect him because you're married. The norms of marriage don't apply to alcoholics. Realizing that is also part of letting go.

L

whyamistaying

LaTeeDa--I think I need to process this a bit. AH came home complaining that he was going to die riding his bike at 4:30 a.m. in the dark, that he can't see anything, that he almost fell off, and that people were honking on him. I felt so horrible. I didn't say anything, but I feel upset.

I went to my Alanon meeting tonight. I guess I don't understand and am confused. I set a boundary --- which is I am not driving him to work in the a.m. But then I started thinking, what if he is right? What if it really is dangerous? Then, if he stayed at a hotel, we can't afford that.

Okay, so I need to rethink this. I thought I had admitted I am powerless over alcohol. I know I can't stop him. But I do think somewhere if I don't keep driving him, then maybe he will face what he has done.

LaTeeDa

Blatant manipulation.

How does his lack of driving privileges have anything to do with you? Are you his mommy? Honestly, your post sounds like you are writing about a child. Poor little guy. Has to ride his bike in the dark. People are honking at him. Are they making fun of his clothes, too? If you really feel so guilty about it, then go to the bike shop and buy him a shiny new headlight and some reflectors for his bike. Give them to him and tell him to GROW UP.

L

Ago

I actually "get this" because it's "not me"

It helps to know what the problem is, when I bring something to my support group, I'm looking EXACTLY for answers such as these from LTD, where there is solution.

I am a sober alcoholic, when I was drinking, no matter how much I tried to control my drinking, no matter how much I struggled, no matter how hard I tried, the harder I fought, the more I got hurt.

I didn't Cause it
I couldn't cure it
I couldn't control it

If I "engaged" with alcohol I lost.

Every time.

If I tried to control it, the fallout was horrific, it would literally grab me by the throat and throw me down and "punish" me, truly, when I tried to control my drinking the backlash was awful, I would uncontrollably periodically binge, I learned not to mess with my drinking, it was bigger then I was, meaner then I was, and smarter then I was, and it punished transgressions ruthlessly.

Sound familiar? It does to me from reading here in F and F, and being involved with my family (alcoholics) and an XAGF.

I had to "surrender", to "give up", surrender meaning "going over from the losing side, to the winning side"

As long as I tried to control the ALCOHOLic the EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED.

LTD's post resonated in my head all night long, I think it's as simple as "I have a drivers license, you USED to have a drivers license, but you lost it from being irresponsible.

If it was one of your children, what would you do?

I suspect it would look something like this:

Well, you lost your license because of _______, you will just have to ride your bike to school, and no matter how much your kid stomped their little feet, b1tched, moaned and whined, you'd just smile, roll over, and go back to sleep.

It's a no brainer. You'd lose no sleep over it, not have any confusion about it.

430

The alarm goes off, he asks you for a ride:

Lost your license being stupid?

burst into laughter and say something like, "it's 430 in the frickin morning, no way am I getting up AND getting the kids up, Sucks to be you, you have a bike light? have a nice day at work Hon"

Roll over and go back to sleep

The thing is, for me, when I am in the middle of it I literally can't see it, it's CONFUSING, i get SO hung up on the details, when in truth, the answer is blindingly simple.

You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it

Step 1 admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives were unmanageable

As long as I engage with ALCOHOLism I lose.

Every time.

I have the power to change that, by making different decisions, and making different choices. You've proven beyond the shadow of a doubt you can't cure him, you can't control him, why not surrender?

Here is your answer:

I look for people who say things like this to sponsor me and be in my support group by the way, I look for people like LaTeeDa, people who are observant and aren't afraid to tell the truth.

For me, that's where true growth lies, in finding out what I can change about ME, not "them", it's simple, but not easy, it's frequently uncomfortable making those changes but the payoff is worth it. It really is.

Learn2Live

I'd just like to point out to folks who are "new" to all this that the awesome, intelligent, and helpful responses from La and Ago are reflective of 12-Steps. This is why I always encourage newcomers to go to Al-Anon, AA, wherever they can get it.