a question about confrontation
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
a question about confrontation
have any of you just flat-out called your husbands, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, children, etc. on their alcoholism? i.e. "i think you're an alcoholic, and i think you should get help." ?? i kind of feel like a chump, any time i talked to xabf about his drinking, i always tip-toed around the subject. i'd say things like "it scares me when you drink that much" or "maybe you should slow down." i talked about the lack of a stop mechanism. the closest i got to mentioning the term "alcoholism" was when i first expressed my concerns, i said i was worried about his drinking because i knew his father was an alcoholic and it can be genetic. i was always met with "i'm not that bad" or "i'm just having fun with my friends" and eventually "well, that's just what my dad gave me."
eventually i stopped talking about it. i also stopped picking him up and putting him to bed when he passed out on the couch downstairs.
"why was i on the couch this morning?"
"because that's where you passed out."
he didn't seem too pleased with that. but what i really wanted to say then and even now...
"i think you're an alcoholic and i think you need help."
i know it's probably not my place to say this. and even if i did, he'd probably deny it. but i feel like i've short-changed myself by tip-toeing around the issue and not really confronting him directly by just saying..."YOU'RE AN ALCOHOLIC, GET SOME HELP!!!!"
thoughts?
eventually i stopped talking about it. i also stopped picking him up and putting him to bed when he passed out on the couch downstairs.
"why was i on the couch this morning?"
"because that's where you passed out."
he didn't seem too pleased with that. but what i really wanted to say then and even now...
"i think you're an alcoholic and i think you need help."
i know it's probably not my place to say this. and even if i did, he'd probably deny it. but i feel like i've short-changed myself by tip-toeing around the issue and not really confronting him directly by just saying..."YOU'RE AN ALCOHOLIC, GET SOME HELP!!!!"
thoughts?
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Not yet but I'm thinking about it
Hi!
My sense of whether confronting an alcoholic with your views is that the information will bounce off the strong wall of denial that alcoholics build around them.
On the other hand, I can understand why you want to make this assertion, whether or not it has ANY impact on the user, and that is, I myself am sick and tired of participating in the alcoholic's fantasy (the alcoholic in this case being my daughter) It seems like everytime I hear from her, it is the same ole, same ole, story. She's "getting her act together, going to enroll in school, wants us to be proud of her", ya ya ya. Doesn't want us to worry about her. Isn't doing drugs, and isn't drinking much, either. She's always reassuring us with how she's "pulling her head out", but then, nothing happens. The only thing I can count on is that sometime in the next month or two, I'll get another phone call with the same phony assurances. I'm feeling like Charlie Brown who is always being gulled by Lucy into kicking the football, which she snatches away at the last minute, leaving him to fall on his rear end.
I do know that at some point we (my husband and I) must confront our daughter with our opinion that she has a monkey on her back (if not alcohol,then drugs). I have to recognize that she is not likely to receive our message at all, but then, at least we'll have the cat out of the bag and can forego the nonsense of pretense that all is just ducky with her.
Electa
My sense of whether confronting an alcoholic with your views is that the information will bounce off the strong wall of denial that alcoholics build around them.
On the other hand, I can understand why you want to make this assertion, whether or not it has ANY impact on the user, and that is, I myself am sick and tired of participating in the alcoholic's fantasy (the alcoholic in this case being my daughter) It seems like everytime I hear from her, it is the same ole, same ole, story. She's "getting her act together, going to enroll in school, wants us to be proud of her", ya ya ya. Doesn't want us to worry about her. Isn't doing drugs, and isn't drinking much, either. She's always reassuring us with how she's "pulling her head out", but then, nothing happens. The only thing I can count on is that sometime in the next month or two, I'll get another phone call with the same phony assurances. I'm feeling like Charlie Brown who is always being gulled by Lucy into kicking the football, which she snatches away at the last minute, leaving him to fall on his rear end.
I do know that at some point we (my husband and I) must confront our daughter with our opinion that she has a monkey on her back (if not alcohol,then drugs). I have to recognize that she is not likely to receive our message at all, but then, at least we'll have the cat out of the bag and can forego the nonsense of pretense that all is just ducky with her.
Electa
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 290
I've talked to my ah multiple times about his alcoholism. He knows he's got a problem, he just doesn't want to give up drinking 
When we first started dating he at some point admitted he had an alcohol problem - he had some issues with the term alcoholic (and I think still isn't comfortable using the term now... at least I don't remember him ever saying I'm an alcoholic, he refers to it as a problem drinker and such). But when when we talk about it I now always use the terms alcoholism/ alcoholic and he doesn't seem to have a problem with me using the term.
I think it's different for each alcoholic though... not every a is willing to accept the fact that they are in fact an alcoholic/ have a drinking problem or sometimes they have a wrong picture of what an alcoholic is (my AH for example when we first started dating had this idea of how an alcoholic behaves and only if you do the things people expect an alcoholic to do, are you an alcoholic). All part of denial!
I'm not sure what your full story is... but do you really think it would have made a difference if you had put a label on it and called him an alcoholic? My guess is no. And even if you get an A to admit that he has a drinking problem and is an Alcoholic, that doesn't mean he will get the help he needs. So don't beat yourself up over it...
When we first started dating he at some point admitted he had an alcohol problem - he had some issues with the term alcoholic (and I think still isn't comfortable using the term now... at least I don't remember him ever saying I'm an alcoholic, he refers to it as a problem drinker and such). But when when we talk about it I now always use the terms alcoholism/ alcoholic and he doesn't seem to have a problem with me using the term.
I think it's different for each alcoholic though... not every a is willing to accept the fact that they are in fact an alcoholic/ have a drinking problem or sometimes they have a wrong picture of what an alcoholic is (my AH for example when we first started dating had this idea of how an alcoholic behaves and only if you do the things people expect an alcoholic to do, are you an alcoholic). All part of denial!
I'm not sure what your full story is... but do you really think it would have made a difference if you had put a label on it and called him an alcoholic? My guess is no. And even if you get an A to admit that he has a drinking problem and is an Alcoholic, that doesn't mean he will get the help he needs. So don't beat yourself up over it...
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 215
I am certainly no expert but you sound very sincere and like you really want to do the right thing.
You said: but i feel like i've short-changed myself...
thats where to begin... deteremine what you want and what you need (no more tip toeing around!) and think about what steps to take - even if very small steps to work toward what will feel good to you.
Setting expectations on others can disappoint you - you cannt control another person or even expect a person to "Hear you." You can give it a try but dont expect anything. If by chance he does "Youre right I do need help" then Great! Give him the number of where to call and leave it at that. But the person really needs to find it within himself to get on the right road.
Be good to yourself. Thats the number one priority. You wont be any good at self care if you are spending all your energy on him and worrying about his well being. I know this becasue I am making the same mistake. It gets quite painful before I start to look at myself and consider all the things I want to change.
You said: but i feel like i've short-changed myself...
thats where to begin... deteremine what you want and what you need (no more tip toeing around!) and think about what steps to take - even if very small steps to work toward what will feel good to you.
Setting expectations on others can disappoint you - you cannt control another person or even expect a person to "Hear you." You can give it a try but dont expect anything. If by chance he does "Youre right I do need help" then Great! Give him the number of where to call and leave it at that. But the person really needs to find it within himself to get on the right road.
Be good to yourself. Thats the number one priority. You wont be any good at self care if you are spending all your energy on him and worrying about his well being. I know this becasue I am making the same mistake. It gets quite painful before I start to look at myself and consider all the things I want to change.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Hey hon, it's not like you're trying to tell the man he has spinach in his teeth.
You are talking about a progressive, deep-seated, selfish, and insanely defensive disease that will not tolerate being called out. Your lack of feather ruffling is a self preservation move in my opinion and may certainly be warranted. I have been there and done that more times than I would care to count. But you know what, I finally learned and then accepted that my seeing the problem for what it is does not change anything. It's the person with the alcoholism who has to call themselves out. No one can do it for them. It just doesn't get through.
Trust me, I got bold baby and called him out right to his face after a big binge. He retreated, was repentant, vowed to get help, vowed to make amends and all of that. Within a couple weeks he was back at a six pack a night and binging on weekends. By the next binge I was being called out on everything from ear wax to PMS and being told no one has any kind of 'problem' but me. So my bold move just got me a tongue lashing and didn't make it below his surface at all.
Don't feel like you've wimped out somehow. It's not your job to do in the first place!! I'm not a wimp because I don't change the lightbulbs on the top of the empire state building because I can say with confidence, it's not my job!
He knows darn well why he ended up on the sofa. Try saying 'you slept there' and smile. If he takes offense at that, then he's just trying to fight with you.
Alice
You are talking about a progressive, deep-seated, selfish, and insanely defensive disease that will not tolerate being called out. Your lack of feather ruffling is a self preservation move in my opinion and may certainly be warranted. I have been there and done that more times than I would care to count. But you know what, I finally learned and then accepted that my seeing the problem for what it is does not change anything. It's the person with the alcoholism who has to call themselves out. No one can do it for them. It just doesn't get through.
Trust me, I got bold baby and called him out right to his face after a big binge. He retreated, was repentant, vowed to get help, vowed to make amends and all of that. Within a couple weeks he was back at a six pack a night and binging on weekends. By the next binge I was being called out on everything from ear wax to PMS and being told no one has any kind of 'problem' but me. So my bold move just got me a tongue lashing and didn't make it below his surface at all.
Don't feel like you've wimped out somehow. It's not your job to do in the first place!! I'm not a wimp because I don't change the lightbulbs on the top of the empire state building because I can say with confidence, it's not my job!
He knows darn well why he ended up on the sofa. Try saying 'you slept there' and smile. If he takes offense at that, then he's just trying to fight with you.
Alice
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
Oh yes, I too have confronted STBXAH many times over the past 18 years. It always ended with nothing changing. He'd admit he has problems but its because..quack, quack, quack. Or he'd deflect the criticism and go on about my weight or something I didn't do right etc. Or he'd bargain - I want x if I stop drinking. None of it made any difference. Just made me feel awful afterwards. So glad I'm not in that place any more!
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi queenie-
per AA, no one can really decide if someone else is an alcoholic except for that person themselves.
however, the only requirement to join AA is a desire to stop drinking. one does not have to be an alcoholic to join the fellowship.
as for confronting your husband, i think it's fine to say how you feel. for example,
"your excessive drinking is becoming a problem for me. i want a partner who is sober. i do not want a partner who passes out on the couch every night..."
whether he is an alcoholic or not is up to him to determine. the fact that you are fed up with how much he drinks is you communicating how you feel about it.
if you do feel to speak with him about it, you might want to tell him that AA is not only for alcoholics, its for anyone who wants help to not drink. that is their sole purpose. he does not have to go to a meeting and state "hi, i'm x and i'm an alcoholic" as is so often depicted in the movies. he doesn't have to say anything at all if he doesn't want to.
naive
per AA, no one can really decide if someone else is an alcoholic except for that person themselves.
however, the only requirement to join AA is a desire to stop drinking. one does not have to be an alcoholic to join the fellowship.
as for confronting your husband, i think it's fine to say how you feel. for example,
"your excessive drinking is becoming a problem for me. i want a partner who is sober. i do not want a partner who passes out on the couch every night..."
whether he is an alcoholic or not is up to him to determine. the fact that you are fed up with how much he drinks is you communicating how you feel about it.
if you do feel to speak with him about it, you might want to tell him that AA is not only for alcoholics, its for anyone who wants help to not drink. that is their sole purpose. he does not have to go to a meeting and state "hi, i'm x and i'm an alcoholic" as is so often depicted in the movies. he doesn't have to say anything at all if he doesn't want to.
naive
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Of course.
I tried talking to him about his anger issues not 2 weeks ago and I was called a bitch, so go figure.
We talked awhile back about his excessive pot smoking which was making him so paranoid and abusively jealous and somehow,someway that was my fault.
So eventually you get to the point where you stop talking and you break-up.
Ngaire
I tried talking to him about his anger issues not 2 weeks ago and I was called a bitch, so go figure.
We talked awhile back about his excessive pot smoking which was making him so paranoid and abusively jealous and somehow,someway that was my fault.
So eventually you get to the point where you stop talking and you break-up.
Ngaire
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
aside from me feeling short-changed about tip-toeing around the issue, i guess there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head that says "if you had only said it this way, maybe he would have seen the light and wanted to do something about it."
magical thinking right??
magical thinking right??
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by queenie88 
aside from me feeling short-changed about tip-toeing around the issue, i guess there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head that says "if you had only said it this way, maybe he would have seen the light and wanted to do something about it."
magical thinking right??
magical thinking right??
Why feel short-changed about something you cannot control?
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
"if you had only said it this way, maybe he would have seen the light and wanted to do something about it."
magical thinking right??
Pretty classic codependent thinking!!
Look, if you need to say something for your own peace of mind then say it. Omce. then let it go. Just like you would tell someone "look out!" if a piano was falling from a building toward their head.
But you can't tell him with any expectation of it having any impact on him in the way YOU want it to.
My Mom once handed my Dad the number to local AA and said I think you should call them. He grumbled and quacked and grumped. but appparently he held on to that very piece of paper in his dresser drawer. For seven more years he drank and drank and drank and my mother raged in codie glory and sh*t really sucked for us kids. Finally one day he called that number and a 12th stepper came right away and took him out for a coffee and a chat and so began his long arduos journey towards sobriety. And he was sober/recovered for the next 20 yrs till he died. The day he called AA wasn;t a day following any of his worst episodes. It was a normal hungover Saturday...but I guess HE was finally done.
Do what your conscience tells you to do- but practice letting go of it before you even say anything and try to keep your mind focused on the things YOU need to change and can change in your own life, you have no control over his behavior/choices no matter what or how you say to him what's on your mind.
Also don't beat yourself up. I can't help my A brothers! they are alcoholics. They need help from other recovered alcoholics who have walked in their shoes. Not me!!
peace,
b
magical thinking right??
Pretty classic codependent thinking!!
Look, if you need to say something for your own peace of mind then say it. Omce. then let it go. Just like you would tell someone "look out!" if a piano was falling from a building toward their head.
But you can't tell him with any expectation of it having any impact on him in the way YOU want it to.
My Mom once handed my Dad the number to local AA and said I think you should call them. He grumbled and quacked and grumped. but appparently he held on to that very piece of paper in his dresser drawer. For seven more years he drank and drank and drank and my mother raged in codie glory and sh*t really sucked for us kids. Finally one day he called that number and a 12th stepper came right away and took him out for a coffee and a chat and so began his long arduos journey towards sobriety. And he was sober/recovered for the next 20 yrs till he died. The day he called AA wasn;t a day following any of his worst episodes. It was a normal hungover Saturday...but I guess HE was finally done.
Do what your conscience tells you to do- but practice letting go of it before you even say anything and try to keep your mind focused on the things YOU need to change and can change in your own life, you have no control over his behavior/choices no matter what or how you say to him what's on your mind.
Also don't beat yourself up. I can't help my A brothers! they are alcoholics. They need help from other recovered alcoholics who have walked in their shoes. Not me!!
peace,
b
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
i guess there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head that says "if you had only said it this way, maybe he would have seen the light and wanted to do something about it.
I thought the same way even well into the start of my recovery. Wow, did I ever!
I even debated about telling XABF of my seeking recovery from codependence and my progress with it. When I questioned what my motive would be for that, I realized it was because I still hoped that he would take a cue from my recovery and seek his own.
What if I said this, what if I did that, what if I refused to speak to him, what if I avoided him entirely..... it was all about motive for me.
I knew I was getting somewhere when I actually started doing things because I would benefit from them and not because it would get some sort of epiphany out of my XABF. When any positive change in his drinking became a back burning bonus from what I chose to do or say I felt progress had been made.
Sometimes I saw us benefiting equally from my actions. Like when I went behind his back to get him housing and a job so he wouldn't try to follow me to my friend's house when we separated. I questioned my motives on that because of the high codependent look of it, but folks here reminded me that looking out for myself is not wrong, even if he gets something out of it.
When you feel the need to have a heart to heart with him or 'inform' him of reality, ask yourself what you are looking to get out of it. If it's only for the satisfaction of getting it off your chest or only a way to gain validation from him of your feelings, there are more effective and more healthy ways to get those. (journal writing, Al-Anon, networking, SR etc).
This is all part of recovery. It's good work your doing. Keep it up!
Alice
I thought the same way even well into the start of my recovery. Wow, did I ever!
I even debated about telling XABF of my seeking recovery from codependence and my progress with it. When I questioned what my motive would be for that, I realized it was because I still hoped that he would take a cue from my recovery and seek his own.
What if I said this, what if I did that, what if I refused to speak to him, what if I avoided him entirely..... it was all about motive for me.
I knew I was getting somewhere when I actually started doing things because I would benefit from them and not because it would get some sort of epiphany out of my XABF. When any positive change in his drinking became a back burning bonus from what I chose to do or say I felt progress had been made.
Sometimes I saw us benefiting equally from my actions. Like when I went behind his back to get him housing and a job so he wouldn't try to follow me to my friend's house when we separated. I questioned my motives on that because of the high codependent look of it, but folks here reminded me that looking out for myself is not wrong, even if he gets something out of it.
When you feel the need to have a heart to heart with him or 'inform' him of reality, ask yourself what you are looking to get out of it. If it's only for the satisfaction of getting it off your chest or only a way to gain validation from him of your feelings, there are more effective and more healthy ways to get those. (journal writing, Al-Anon, networking, SR etc).
This is all part of recovery. It's good work your doing. Keep it up!
Alice
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
This has been a good thread for me.
I did tell my ah that he had a drinking problem and he needed to quit and we'd get counseling. At least 3-4 times in the 2 years before I recently filed for divorce. I never left and of course he never quit and I still think now that if I would have been more firm, or actually kicked him out or whatever that he would have sought treatment then - when I still felt like I wanted a future with him. But I didn't actually file for divorce until I really wanted one. I feel so guilty - I know I have a long ways to go. He isn't far enough in his recovery either and blames me for the same things. :sigh: I also think he thinks I filed to force him into recovery - and so now I should be happy. That really wasn't my intent though, I filed because I no longer want to be married to him. I'm such a wishy washy weakling that I agreed to move that back two months, allow him to come home, and we'd do 2 months of counseling before deciding. I don't know who I hate more, him or me.
I did tell my ah that he had a drinking problem and he needed to quit and we'd get counseling. At least 3-4 times in the 2 years before I recently filed for divorce. I never left and of course he never quit and I still think now that if I would have been more firm, or actually kicked him out or whatever that he would have sought treatment then - when I still felt like I wanted a future with him. But I didn't actually file for divorce until I really wanted one. I feel so guilty - I know I have a long ways to go. He isn't far enough in his recovery either and blames me for the same things. :sigh: I also think he thinks I filed to force him into recovery - and so now I should be happy. That really wasn't my intent though, I filed because I no longer want to be married to him. I'm such a wishy washy weakling that I agreed to move that back two months, allow him to come home, and we'd do 2 months of counseling before deciding. I don't know who I hate more, him or me.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 77
This is also a good thread for me. I have confronted him many, many times in the last nine years and may I say to no avail. I have tried being nice, giving ultamatums (sp?)and the classic provoking insults. I needed to read alot of what was said here. I am now in the process of working on me and deciding what I can and can't live with.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I don't know who I hate more, him or me.
Thumper, noooo, please tell me you don't really hate yourself.
Okay, so you realize the decision wasn't the right one. You were trying to give the stars one last chance to align themselves. Can't say later you gave up, right?
Some decisions can be reversed, and thankfully this is one of them.
How far along are you in your two months? Maybe the counseling would be best spent working on forgiveness. Something you need to give yourself sooner rather than later.
Alice
Thumper, noooo, please tell me you don't really hate yourself.
Okay, so you realize the decision wasn't the right one. You were trying to give the stars one last chance to align themselves. Can't say later you gave up, right?
Some decisions can be reversed, and thankfully this is one of them.
How far along are you in your two months? Maybe the counseling would be best spent working on forgiveness. Something you need to give yourself sooner rather than later.
Alice
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Believe me if there really was anything that we could do to make them get sober none of us would be here.
One thing that does help though is when I keep my own side of the street clean. If I work on my own sanity instead of trying to keep my A in line my life runs much more peacefully. The more I focus on them the crazier I will become.
One thing that does help though is when I keep my own side of the street clean. If I work on my own sanity instead of trying to keep my A in line my life runs much more peacefully. The more I focus on them the crazier I will become.
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Should you have potential legal/financial/child custody issues with the alcoholic I would video/photograph/document as best as you can his drinking and behavior.
Confrontation will 99.999999999999999999999999999% futile unless it is in the form of a properly done "Intervention" in which case has a decent chance to compel him into treatment.
Simply telling him about it will lead to
# anger # ignore you #may say he drinks too much and doesn't want to stop #may say he will stop but nothing will change
Confrontation will 99.999999999999999999999999999% futile unless it is in the form of a properly done "Intervention" in which case has a decent chance to compel him into treatment.
Simply telling him about it will lead to
# anger # ignore you #may say he drinks too much and doesn't want to stop #may say he will stop but nothing will change
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Originally Posted by worthyoflove
I was told by a member in AA to never mention the drinking.
opinions and advice vary from person to person. people at aa have given me much advice and great variation. some have said I should confront aw, do an intervention, have her arrested when she drived drunk, etc etc etc. there also exists no lack of "myths" at aa and alanon.
recovering alcoholics that now perform interventions might tell you to try one. IMO, advice from someone experienced in treating alcoholics would be a decent source.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
i guess at this point, nothing i say really matters to xabf. i more wanted to bring it up to him to explain my unhealthy reactions - i did some crazy codie things (going through his email, blowing up one night, throwing a remote and accidentally breaking his tv) and i just want for him desperately to see that those things were an unhealthy reaction to his unhealthy behaviors. i'm not trying to put the blame on him, but that's what he's doing to me - in his mind, i'm the one that did all these crazy things, and i'm the one that ruined our relationship, and because of that i deserve to be kicked out, strung along and dumped. it's just not fair. i can't do anything right.
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