MaryUK

Hello again,

I've been doing lots of reading since I found this site and am just getting more and more confused about whether my husband really is an alcoholic or not. I know the books say not to obsess on this, and if I think his drinking is a problem then it is. BUT I feel that I need to be able to validate my having an issue with it by labelling the problem, if you see what I mean. Otherwise it's just me being unreasonable and spoiling his fun. I have looked at various "quizzes" to diagnose alcoholism and even if I give him the benefit of the doubt he usually comes out as having a problem.

I am certain he's a heavy drinker.
I am certain he's a problem drinker.
I'm not certain he's an alcoholic.

From reading here and elsewhere though, what I keep thinking is..."he really isn't that bad".

I never find him passed out on the floor
He's never violent
He's rarely nasty (but is this because I'm good at not provoking him/ avoiding him if he's drunk?)
He goes to work
We're not in debt
He does all the family shopping and cooks quite often
He can have a couple of drinks and then stop
He has never been done for DUI (though many times he could have been)
He has never been hospitalised or needed tratment for anything drink related
He never drinks in the morning (and only in the day if there's some sort of event - rarely)

Conversely:

He is drunk several times a week, regularly drinking the equivalent of a bottle (fifth?) of spirits
Most of his drinking is alone
On holidays he thinks it's ok to leave me with the kids every night while he gets drunk
We rarely do "family" things together because he's sleeping
DIY jobs never get finished

I feel like this IS my problem. He's quite happy with the way he lives his life. Says he's always enjoyed his "pop" and I knew that from the start. Which I did. BUT I've changed. We've got 3 young children, I don't get drunk, I have to be responsible and I am. He carries on drinking like he was in his 20s with no responsibilities. I don't feel he acts like a grown-up and I don't respect him. I don't like the person he is when he's drunk. My children are (so far) unaware of the effects of alcohol on him, but my oldest has started making comments about him drinking beer "all the time" (and she doesn't see much because most of it is after she's in bed!). She's said he likes "beer and sleeping" but so far she doesn't link the two.

I will do anything to protect my children. If I was sure that he was damaging them more than what splitting up the family would do I would make him leave. At the moment things aren't that bad. It would devastate them to split. Sometime I wish he was worse so I would feel clearer about what I had to do. I can't face being the bad guy!!!

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I think I'm just trying to get things straight in my head by writing them down. I'm carrying on reading, am thinking about setting boundaries. And am finding myself OBSESSED with the whole issure of his drinking - measuring it, recording it, charting it!!!. Not very detached, I know.

Thanks for reading.

Mary

GiveLove

Mary, it's good to get things down on paper and sort out your feelings about all this.

I too used to think like this:
Trying to find "unassailable proof" kept me from facing the harder issue, which was: Is this how I want to live? (regardless of whether it's a textbook condition) Is this what I would want my children to grow up modeling as "normal" ?

It's not about labeling. It is about what we are willing to accept, and letting go of what someone "should" be in favor of what will best increase our chances to have a happy life. I tried to get him (there were several hims) to see the light, but it never worked.

Counseling, Al-Anon, and this place helped me to see that the answer didn't lie in quizzes. It was inside me all the time, but I couldn't face it for the longest time. The tension in my stomach. The headaches. The blood pressure. The susceptibility to illness. Eventually, I realized that I just didn't want to be around irresponsible, self-centered drunks any more. It made me sick to my stomach,. no matter what others thought or said.

I wish you luck, strength, and clarity to do what's right for YOU. Only you know what kind of life you're willing to tolerate.

bookwyrm

This sounds like typical alcoholic quacking and something my STBXAH would say to me. Yeah, no one else's happiness matters but his....

Does it really matter who's problem it is? You can only change you. Getting the label right doesn't really mean anything. You really don't need external validation of your feelings. From what you've posted here, you do have a problem with his alcohol consumption, alcoholic or not. Does the label mean you would have to act in a certain way? You certainly seem reluctant to assign it, despite the results of all the tests you have taken.

You know that the label isn't really the issue here. Its what you do about how you're living. Are you happy with the way things are right now? Can you live like this with your AH as he is right now? Remember you cannot change him. Having children would make anyone act more responsibly but he seems to have left that all up to you. Have a look at Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic Parents - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information to see what effect this lifestyle is having on your children. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. He will get worse. How much worse it is for you and your children is your own choice.

You do not have to justify your actions to anyone but yourself! Don't buy into the 'bad guy' thing. You sound as if you are almost ready to leave and you don't sound happy. What would it take for you to reach your bottom? Can you get some counselling for yourself? It really helped me think more clearly.

Take care of yourself - you sound so frazzled.:ghug2

greebobeebo

Hi

I have a problem with alcohol. Before I found this site I was drinking 4 lagers a night, nearly every night. I was not falling down drunk, I have never been hospitalised through drink, I never needed to sleep it off. BUT I had a problem because 1 was not enough. If I had 4 and told myself I would only drink 2 I couldn't because the other 2 were burning a hole in my brain.

If you believe he has a problem then you need to sort your side of this out, then maybe one day he will see he has a problem and sort it himself. A person has to admit they have a problem before they can take any more steps. Having a Hissy fit and saying what about me won't make any difference to him.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life treading on eggshells so as not to provoke him?

Live your life for you.

sara1971

dear Mary,
i don't know how old is your husband, alcoholism is a progressive disease. i don't want to be pessimist but i guess you are right to be worried about him. he will continue drinking more since his body will need more and more.
take care of yourself and kids

totfit

Your not the one with the problem. The amount he is drinking will have serious physical effects eventually along with the "family" effects you see now. He is just an example of a "functional" alcoholic. Due to having a tremendous tolerance for alcohol.

Jadmack25

Did you get married to be alone so much? To spend your holidays with your children while your husband is busy getting "smashed every day? Sounds like you have 4 kids, not 3 and are missing having a marriage with a partner, and you recognise this and that you do not feel at all happy as things are.

Not all drinkers are the same or do the same things, eg abusive, violent or get dui's etc, but at some stage the partner is the one who feels miserable, neglected and unhappy.

If his drinking is a problem for you, then it IS a problem. What you do about it is up to you. I wish you all the best for what could be a very bumpy ride.

Gypsy Feet

I find the more I work on me, with the help of this site and books/readings/research on codependency, the more clarity I get. I now have a very clear idea of what I want and don't want in my home environment, and I am taking the appropriate steps to achieve the home I deserve. Stick around and keep reading/posting, this site is pretty amazing.

vicarious

It doesn't matter if he is an alcoholic or not. In fact, it's generally said that no one can say for sure whether someone is an alcoholic except the alcoholic. I'm not sure I subscribe to that idea, but I do think that while it might give you some peace of mind to be able to diagnose him, what you are really doing is at best or pointing a finger at worst.

The net result is that your home life is not good, and there are limited things you can do about it. What you can do is assess the things you have control over and among those things, what the effect of your various actions and reactions would have over your life and the household. This isn't something you sit down with a pen and paper and decide overnight. You need to do your homework, which most likely means getting outside assistance, whether it be AlAnon, a therapist, a member of the clergy, etc.

What you'll probably discover is that pushing your spouse to fix himself will make him resentful and angry, maybe even drink more out of spite (which you shouldn't blame yourself for his dumb behavior, but it could be a boneheaded choice he makes), and will make you frustrated, scared, pissed and possibly indignant. Or you could focus on yourself and remove yourself and your children from situations when he is out of control drinking. Obviously I'm simplifying here -- there is much for you to learn about taking care of yourself and giving yourself the respect and love that you deserve.

The answers others posted here are terrific. It was such a revelation to me when I realized that I could affect change on my own reactions to bad situations. It took awhile for my feelings to catch up with my intellectual understanding of the concept, but now I am able to be around people and situations that used to make me feel sick, confused and unsure about myself.

What my therapist told me was to feel what I need to feel, talk it out with trusted friends and counselors and don't do or say anything drastic. The answers would come to me if I gave myself time, space and breathing room. He was right.

I wish you a good journey and much healing and love. I believe it's possible if you start with yourself.

(sorry so long. i seem to be longwinded today):ghug3

swert

This is amazing. I read your story and I feel like it's my own story. Your words could be my words. This is what I tell myself. If his drinking affect the whole family life he's an alcoholic. His drinking is not my problem. I can't help him because he doesn't think he has a problem. He enjoyes his drinking. If my kids ask questions (they are 6,5 and 3 years old) and to them it's weird their father just drinks and sleeps all the time well than SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT!!!
You think you're confused, I'm confused as well. But more I read, more I know about all the situation more clear is to me what should I do. Try to think what is that you really want. Ask yourself what the future is going to be if you do nothing and ask yourself if you want the future like this. How does it look in your house? Is it: you husband, kids, everything else and finally your needs in the very end? You should be at the first place. You're happy, you think positive, you have goals and achieve them, then you may make everybody around you happy and take care of your life.
It should be: ME, MY KIDS AND everything else.

BlueMoon

One word - AL-ANON.

Al-non is for you if someone's drinking is affecting you. You don't have to be sure or prove that they are an alcoholic.


Blue

crispygolden

I really relate to your story. I don't have children and my husband is both a workaholic and a functional alcoholic. It's not the way I want to live. It's not what I got married for. I just spent a few days away. Now I'm back and it's easy to slip into denial since he's remorseful and for the moment "things are better".

In Alanon I hear a lot about cleaning up my side of the street, and that I'll repeat the same issues in the next relationship. I see my control issues, much more glaring than I realized. I see how my focus has continued to be him, even when i thought it wasn't. I see that ignoring and just doing my own thing while looking over my shoulder at him isn't working. I see that I attempted to get love through control with my alcoholic and workaholic father and wasn't successful and raged at him until he died.

I am working my program. I am working on myself. I have to remind myself that the right solution for me is only for me, not anyone else's solution. I am praying to be guided. I appreciate the posts on this question. I feel very confused and I am grateful for some clarification that maybe if it's truly and deeply not how I want to live, that is enough of a reason.

ItsmeAlice

The need for validation of our feelings and suspicions seems to be a very basic need stemming from childhood. I was invalidated by my parents growing up and I came to believe as an adult that my feelings were just my overactive imagination, weren't important for anyone else to consider, or complete fabrications unless I had some tangible proof or evidence that the trigger of my emotions existed. Not that it ever mattered to my parents. If I could prove someone pulled my hair and made me cry, I was to get over it.

My soon-to-be-ex-alcoholic-boyfriend (STBXABF) started out in our relationship being the validator for my feelings. He backed me up when I felt slighted or hurt by my family or others. He was the source of my truth in many ways. When his alcoholism began to affect me and our relationship, I naturally turned to him to validate my feelings about it. Of course, as alcoholics are known to do, he minimized the problem, made it into something I had to just get over because he's an adult and should be allowed to relax with a beer if he feels like it.

As the years went by, all I could do was try to get over it no matter how hurt or disrespected I felt. I made every excuse for it...he's doesn't need to be carried out of bars, he functions at work, he doesn't hit me etc. etc. In the end, his continued drinking, my need for validation that his drinking affected me, and his complete denial that he had a problem drinking became a viscious circle that took over my life.

When I found recovery I began to understand my need for a source of truth. I began to realize that I have to look inward for that validation and trust what my heart, my eyes, and my own intellect were telling me and disregard anything said by those who minimize and invalidate my emotions and suspicions.

I found the people here to be an invaluable blessing in that they have walked this same path with many different twists and turns, but they all draw from the same strength of self that you must build to make your life better. It can be made better whether you live with your alcoholic husband or not, and that is all you really want, right? To feel better and to be happy for you and for your children.

You are on the right path, you will find that validation here, in Al-Anon or other groups, and with educating yourself on alcoholism and its effects. You will come to truly accept that whether he fits someone's definition of an alcoholic or not is irrelavent. It is the truth within you that matters, and only that.

It's a long journey, but every day is part of that journey and worth facing.

WELCOME!!

Alice

jaguarpcb

Mary, would this kind of behavior be acceptable to you if he never drank a drop? If he left you with the kids every night on holiday to go stare at a wall? If he were sleeping enough that you rarely got to do things as a family? If he never finished projects he started? If he didn't act like a grown up and you didn't respect him? Does the drinking or label of alcoholic really matter? If he drank every day and treated you like gold and acted like a responsible adult would you care that he drank so much? Isn't the issue really how he treats you and your children?

And it IS your problem. You can't change him, can't make him feel the same way you do about it, can't force him to see it as a problem for your family. Even if you decide he should be labeled alcoholic, he still won't believe you. So it becomes your problem......he's going to drink, he's made that clear, now what are YOU going to do to make a happy and healthy life for you and your children?

Sometimes you just have to step back and look at the bigger picture.....is this how you want to live your life? Is his behavior acceptable to YOU? Do you feel loved and cherished? Do your children? Is this the type of life you want for your children? Is this the type of marriage you want them modeling when they grow up?

MaryUK

Exactly what I've been doing! I've kind of thought that I've been detaching (i.e. doing nothing), but it's not the same thing is it? I've been monitoring and recording his drinking and behaviour, I've got a spreadsheet FFS!! Reading about illnesses he might get, worrying about him losing his job, worrying about the kids etc etc etc. Not very detached at all really.

Thank-you all for your advice. I take your point (all of you!) about focussing on his behaviour and not obsessig about whether he is an alcoholic or not. I think I keep trying so hard to diagnose him because if it's just that I find his behaviour unreasonable, maybe that's because I'm unreasonable. Whereas if the behaviour is because he is an alcoholic, other people might find that unreasonable also. If you see what I mean. I know I shouldn't worry about what others think but it's a bit of a habit of mine!

On the other hand, maybe others would find the behaviour a lot more unreasonable than I do! I am generally quite stoical, one of life's copers; I can manage with the kids by myself, I am quite practical round the house, I cope. I can imagine friends of mine not putting up with it at all (they have no idea about all this).

Anyway, I am continuing to educate myself. I have read Marriage on the Rocks, Getting Them SOber, Under the Influence and have just started on Codependent No more. Unfortunately all this reading is making me obsess more than ever at the moment!

I am hoping to go to an Al-Anon meeting on Monday. If I make it that will be my biggest step so far.

Thanks again to everyone for all the time you put into reading and replying.

Mary