Wascally Wabbit

Mom and I got into a conversation about burials.
background: She's 30 yrs sober, AA old timer.

She kept feeling guilty about the headstone of her mom and dad. "it's too small".
I say, "why spend money on the dead?". They've already been buried decades ago. why the need to spend more?
She said the bible says we should. We are supposed to care for graves of loved ones.
I said, What? Where?!
She said, I DON'T KNOW exactly where! But I know it says that!

If the hand of God Almighty came down out of the sky and handed her a personally written note that NO, you don't have to take care of a grave according to the bible, she would argue with Him.

Another conversation came up about my estranged sis. Sis left a long time ago to get away from mom. Sis HATES mom with a passion.
Mom doesn't see that her alcoholism had ANYTHING to do with how my sister turned out.


Why do alcoholics believe they can do no wrong? "I am sorry" is not part of their belief system. This is so baffling. The whole idea that they are sociopaths grows truer each time I have to have a stupid conversation with her.
Sigh.

GiveLove

Aww, Wascally. I'm sorry you're going through this poop with your mom again. Still. Forever.

But it hasn't been my experience that all alcoholics in recovery are like your mom (or sociopaths, or chronically must be right, or narcissistic...)

There are many who are good people trying hard, and nothing all all like you're describing. Some of them work here, and I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world.

Don't you think your mom might've turned out this way no matter whether she ever had a problem with alcohol? She's just...like that.

Can you let this go? If she thinks the bible says her folks should have a bigger stone, and she wants to buy them one, let her. Why does that matter? Give her the number and let her figure it out. (she wants YOU to buy it, that's a different story) Me? I'd think "caring for the grave" means going there and tending it lovingly, not the size of the stone, but whatever. It's not about who's right.

If she's harping on you to fix it for her, then she's just whining again, and maybe that's a conversation you should just say "pass" on. Ditto the one about your sister. Not your life, not your problem, if you just walk away. Your mom isn't going to change, and you'll just drive yourself nutso trying to make her into the mother she can never be.

Hugs,
GL

discontentmiser

I really like the title

I was homeschooled 10 years, so Dad's word being the law is nothing new.

I hate (ooo! strong word, but accurate) that I always have that nagging doubt that he is right
that I am wrong

But now I'm happy that I'm in touch enough with my feeling that I can resent him and be angry
later maybe I'll learn to be angry at the alcoholic and not him, eventually

I just have trouble walking away, but now, despite his good intentions
I repel everything my dad says, even if it could be partially right.

I'm pissed that he has sponsees: if he can't help his own kid how is he allowed to "help" others?

Wascally Wabbit

GL, you have the spirit of a saint.
It' easy for me to see only what I know. Yes, indeed there are others who are good after drinking.

It's hard to let something go GL, when it's yelling in your face!!
She was insinuating that she expected me to take care of her grave.
I could have kept quiet, but, in doing that I am feeling like the old ACOA who has to endure all the BS and crap that I have worked so hard to get over.
I could agree to anything and she would never know after she's dead.
But, I do get tired of all the I AM RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT, and having to bow to the almighty complainer. I guess I am not willing to be the brunt of any more abuse from her.
I do love her.
Thanks GL.

tromboneliness

Ooooh -- the temptation would be SO great to say, "Uh, sorry, but you're gettin' cremated and sprinkled all over Seattle (or wherever she grew up)." But that wouldn't be very helpful, now, would it? :uzi2:

T

GiveLove

Nor should you, wabbit. Not one minute. If she wants to put it in her will that she's left you some money to buy her a 14-karat gold headstone, well then, that's great. Unless she does that, she gets whatever you decide to give her LOL Again, if she wants something specific, it's HER job to pay for it and tell you exactly what it is. I'm sure the mortuary has a nice catalog you can send her (ohh, that's not nice is it.....)

Do you see? You're allowing yourself to be guilt-tripped over nothing. She wants it? She wants to choose it? She wants to pay for it? Fine by me.

Is she afraid you're just going to let her grave get all weed-covered and forgotten? What a terrible fear to have. I like your plan to just agree to her whatever. When she's gone, she's gone. And anyway, I know you'll do right by her when that happens.

I've observed that these things usually come up when you're spending way too much time letting her yammer at you Maybe limit your conversations with her, or practice your "I'm not going to talk about this right now" and hanging up if she persists?

Hate to see you upset.

dothi

Hey WW, just a reminder that if she's the one carrying this fear then she is the one who can do something about it. Not you. Her.

She can make a will, say simply, "please maintain my grave," or do any number of things to prevent this fear from happening. She is not helpless; she is a grown adult responsible for her. There are many, many other options available in addition to "manipulating children emotionally to meet one's needs".

It seems to me that parent-induced guilt and entitlement go hand-in-hand. Whenever you find yourself picking up that old familiar guilt again, ask yourself if your mom is really entitled to it. Is she entitled to shuffle off her responsibilities onto her adult child and cash in a few credits of your sanity? Because she finds it too difficult/inconvenient/unorthadox to consider any other alternatives, is it somehow justified that she cast the perceived burden onto her children? ("perceived burden" because, as you described, there is not really any factual problem with the headstone situation, aside from your mom verbalizing guilt for actions she refuses to take to improve the situation)

Quote:

I guess I am not willing to be the brunt of any more abuse from her.

I'd bet she doesn't even realize how what she's doing makes you feel, and is just going through the motions of repeating learned behaviors from her own upbringing. So why go through all the pointless guilt when she is not even aware of how you performing this task will actually improve her life? (if it does actually improve anything, in the end)

There will always be another thing - often material - that keeps them from being happy... as if there was one magical thing out there to cure all their ailments. Don't buy into it, WW. Stay off the crazy train.

dothi

I concur

Prozac

This echos the first thought that entered my mind when I read your post. Some of the most honest thoughtful people I know are those who have embraced full recovery. For them it wasn't just about not using and attending meetings. One stands out in particular for me (as I'm currently doing an ethnographic study on his recovery for a research project). Long before I started this study I knew that he was everything that I strive to be in a human being and this project has confirmed it. He is well. Healthy. And while I have never struggled with demons like his (he is an ACoA as well as a recovering addict along with many other demons) I can relate to him so well and he provides me with hope that I can be completely healthy someday too.

At the same time, I know your frustration as most of my family members who are in "recovery" are just as selfish as ever, just not using. I watched my "dry drunk" "I don't need no stinkin' meetings" dad for years and he continued to be selfish. And drinking again, even more so. And today I recognize that even if he accepted AA, he has so many other issues he would just twist it to suit his own needs. Essentially, AA might age him from being 13 developmentally to 15 or 16, but there would still be a long way to go.

Freedom1990

The 'never wrong' syndrome is not unique to alcoholics. My mother qualifies for that one too, and she's a flaming untreated codependent, not an alcoholic.

tromboneliness

This is why double-winners often describe Al-Anon as "the graduate program for AA."

And -- in my estimation -- what is the graduate program for Al-Anon?"

ACoA.

T

Prozac

I wish we still had ACoA meetings in my area, once my life settles down some I'm more than ready to drive the hour it takes to get to the closest one. Having never been to one, I can't really know, but I just feel that it would be the right fit for me.

tromboneliness

Do you have a copy of the ACoA (or actually, they seem to prefer ACA) Big Book? Both of the meetings I go to use the book -- one meeting is reading it cover-to-cover, while the other one is just going over the parts of the book that cover the 12 steps. The book helps a lot in terms of keeping the meeting on-topic, so it doesn't turn into just rambling sharing/whining about how tough life is, and all that stuff we know very well.

I think the big book is only about 2-3 years old -- people who have been in the program a long time say that the number of ACoA meetings has gone way down from what it was 15-20 years ago. The book may be helping spark renewed interest....

Urb