For those still living with alcoholics
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For those still living with alcoholics
I found a link on SR that you may not have noticed and might find helpful. One in particular concerns more effective ways of communicating with an addict/alcoholic.
I noticed a lot of people here who are still married or involved with alcoholics, find themselves cajoling, chastising, threatening...etc. Rarely do those techniques WORK. And it makes you stressed out and frustrated. I used to do this too with my ex-abf.
There are less stressful, more effective means of communication, however, that lead the addict to come to realizations about his behavior on his own.
I actually think these techniques are helpful when dealing with ANYONE, not just alcoholics. Seems like they would minimize a lot of conflict and stress.
Motivate Someone To Seek Help For Alcoholism - Stage One: Feedback And Responsibility - Feedback - DryOutNow.com
I noticed a lot of people here who are still married or involved with alcoholics, find themselves cajoling, chastising, threatening...etc. Rarely do those techniques WORK. And it makes you stressed out and frustrated. I used to do this too with my ex-abf.
There are less stressful, more effective means of communication, however, that lead the addict to come to realizations about his behavior on his own.
I actually think these techniques are helpful when dealing with ANYONE, not just alcoholics. Seems like they would minimize a lot of conflict and stress.
Motivate Someone To Seek Help For Alcoholism - Stage One: Feedback And Responsibility - Feedback - DryOutNow.com
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Was thinking it might be helpful to copy the simple list of "Feedback" recommendations from that link.
1. NEVER directly disagree with them – rather walk away if you are about to.
2. DO NOT PRETEND that you do agree with them either.
3. In general, avoid making statements of fact.
4. DO ask open-ended questions (questions which deliver a response other than a simple yes or no) if you can. Closed questions (requiring a yes or no answer) are still much better than making statements.
5. Keep in mind the idea that you are going to ‘Roll with Resistance’. You are not going to become resistant or defensive yourself in response to the person’s statements, but you are not going to give in to them either – you are going to ‘roll
along with them’.
I always say, if something's not working, try a different approach. It can't hurt.
1. NEVER directly disagree with them – rather walk away if you are about to.
2. DO NOT PRETEND that you do agree with them either.
3. In general, avoid making statements of fact.
4. DO ask open-ended questions (questions which deliver a response other than a simple yes or no) if you can. Closed questions (requiring a yes or no answer) are still much better than making statements.
5. Keep in mind the idea that you are going to ‘Roll with Resistance’. You are not going to become resistant or defensive yourself in response to the person’s statements, but you are not going to give in to them either – you are going to ‘roll
along with them’.
I always say, if something's not working, try a different approach. It can't hurt.
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All I will say is that WOULD NOT have worked with me.
Anybody tried any of that with me they probably would have been hit with an empty Jack Daniel's bottle.
You cannot reason with a practicing alkie. If you want to try, be prepared for the tables being turned on you, be prepared for rage, and lots of QUACKING and DENIAL. No matter what you say or don't say, it will be 'your fault.'
I had to learn for me, both in my recovery from addiction and my recovery working on my 'codie half' that the only one I can change is me. And oh yes, I stayed, sober with my AH when addiction once again took over. I stayed, until I realized the 3 C's and that I would rather start over ONE MORE TIME with nothing than continue to subject myself to the emotional and mental abuse, and I could see the physical starting to escalate and just knew that before long it would be me being hit instead of the walls.
So ................................. try it if you can, but there is no 'reasoning' with a practicing addict.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Anybody tried any of that with me they probably would have been hit with an empty Jack Daniel's bottle.
You cannot reason with a practicing alkie. If you want to try, be prepared for the tables being turned on you, be prepared for rage, and lots of QUACKING and DENIAL. No matter what you say or don't say, it will be 'your fault.'
I had to learn for me, both in my recovery from addiction and my recovery working on my 'codie half' that the only one I can change is me. And oh yes, I stayed, sober with my AH when addiction once again took over. I stayed, until I realized the 3 C's and that I would rather start over ONE MORE TIME with nothing than continue to subject myself to the emotional and mental abuse, and I could see the physical starting to escalate and just knew that before long it would be me being hit instead of the walls.
So ................................. try it if you can, but there is no 'reasoning' with a practicing addict.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Yikes.. I'da thrown a bottle or 10 too.
Good god that's horrible LOL
It didn't matter what anyone said, did, what mind games they played or conversational techniques they tried.. I wasn't done til I was done. Period.
Please get help for YOU sandra.. this is seriously fruitless searching I'm afraid.
Good god that's horrible LOL
It didn't matter what anyone said, did, what mind games they played or conversational techniques they tried.. I wasn't done til I was done. Period.
Please get help for YOU sandra.. this is seriously fruitless searching I'm afraid.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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I kinda see where the author is going sandrawg- but to me, it is still way to much in reaction to the alkies behavior and too focused on trying to control or change myself around them in ways that are designed to what? Get them to change? I don't know-- I just don;t go down that road anymore at all - I may just be too cynical but for me any article titled "Motivate someone..." or "Get them to..." etc. I generally avoid...if it's titled "Motivate yourself..." or "get yourself to..." I am more inclined to try the tips!! Just my experience!!
peace,
b
peace,
b
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I don't think the goal is really to get the alcoholic to get sober, but to not play a role in their denial, or feed their tendencies to blame others, or respond to their need for a codependent.
That's what I got out of it, anyway (even though it says "helping to motivate the alcoholic" etc.)
That's what I got out of it, anyway (even though it says "helping to motivate the alcoholic" etc.)
Originally Posted by laurie6781 
All I will say is that WOULD NOT have worked with me.
Anybody tried any of that with me they probably would have been hit with an empty Jack Daniel's bottle.
You cannot reason with a practicing alkie. If you want to try, be prepared for the tables being turned on you, be prepared for rage, and lots of QUACKING and DENIAL. No matter what you say or don't say, it will be 'your fault.'
I had to learn for me, both in my recovery from addiction and my recovery working on my 'codie half' that the only one I can change is me. And oh yes, I stayed, sober with my AH when addiction once again took over. I stayed, until I realized the 3 C's and that I would rather start over ONE MORE TIME with nothing than continue to subject myself to the emotional and mental abuse, and I could see the physical starting to escalate and just knew that before long it would be me being hit instead of the walls.
So ................................. try it if you can, but there is no 'reasoning' with a practicing addict.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Anybody tried any of that with me they probably would have been hit with an empty Jack Daniel's bottle.
You cannot reason with a practicing alkie. If you want to try, be prepared for the tables being turned on you, be prepared for rage, and lots of QUACKING and DENIAL. No matter what you say or don't say, it will be 'your fault.'
I had to learn for me, both in my recovery from addiction and my recovery working on my 'codie half' that the only one I can change is me. And oh yes, I stayed, sober with my AH when addiction once again took over. I stayed, until I realized the 3 C's and that I would rather start over ONE MORE TIME with nothing than continue to subject myself to the emotional and mental abuse, and I could see the physical starting to escalate and just knew that before long it would be me being hit instead of the walls.
So ................................. try it if you can, but there is no 'reasoning' with a practicing addict.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Yeah, I see what you mean Bernadette.
I still see on this forum a lot of people enmeshed with alcoholics who maybe still haven't hit bottom, and maybe this site is for them.
I just thikn about being in the rel'ship with my xabf and how frustrated I would get just trying to deal with his logic, and the rationalizing and the minimizing. There's no escaping it, if you're still in the thick of it.
The only thing you can do is try to change your reaction to it. Maybe change your communication style to avoid landmines.
That's how I saw this, anyway. I could see where, maybe responding to their complaints with questions, such as "do YOU feel like you deserved to get written up at work" might defuse some potential conflict (as opposed to "of COURSE you got written up at work you were late cuz you were hungover! I'm so tired of this" bla bla bla) might avoid a lot of stress and anger.
I still see on this forum a lot of people enmeshed with alcoholics who maybe still haven't hit bottom, and maybe this site is for them.
I just thikn about being in the rel'ship with my xabf and how frustrated I would get just trying to deal with his logic, and the rationalizing and the minimizing. There's no escaping it, if you're still in the thick of it.
The only thing you can do is try to change your reaction to it. Maybe change your communication style to avoid landmines.
That's how I saw this, anyway. I could see where, maybe responding to their complaints with questions, such as "do YOU feel like you deserved to get written up at work" might defuse some potential conflict (as opposed to "of COURSE you got written up at work you were late cuz you were hungover! I'm so tired of this" bla bla bla) might avoid a lot of stress and anger.
Originally Posted by Bernadette
I kinda see where the author is going sandrawg- but to me, it is still way to much in reaction to the alkies behavior and too focused on trying to control or change myself around them in ways that are designed to what? Get them to change? I don't know-- I just don;t go down that road anymore at all - I may just be too cynical but for me any article titled "Motivate someone..." or "Get them to..." etc. I generally avoid...if it's titled "Motivate yourself..." or "get yourself to..." I am more inclined to try the tips!! Just my experience!!
peace,
b
peace,
b
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I am getting help...isn't that a little rude? This has nothing to do with that.
It's just a suggestion-isn't that what SR is for?
It's just a suggestion-isn't that what SR is for?
Originally Posted by flutter
Yikes.. I'da thrown a bottle or 10 too.
Good god that's horrible LOL
It didn't matter what anyone said, did, what mind games they played or conversational techniques they tried.. I wasn't done til I was done. Period.
Please get help for YOU sandra.. this is seriously fruitless searching I'm afraid.
Good god that's horrible LOL
It didn't matter what anyone said, did, what mind games they played or conversational techniques they tried.. I wasn't done til I was done. Period.
Please get help for YOU sandra.. this is seriously fruitless searching I'm afraid.
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This is just my opinion, but I think suggestions are most helpful when they come from a place of experience. As in, here is what I did in a similar situation, and this is how it worked out for me.
Just a suggestion, lol.
L
Just a suggestion, lol.
L
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Not necessarily. I'm a bookworm type and like to do research so often I bring academic evidence into the equation as well! lol
But thank goodness I don't HAVE to try these techniques on anyone anymore!
But thank goodness I don't HAVE to try these techniques on anyone anymore!
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
This is just my opinion, but I think suggestions are most helpful when they come from a place of experience. As in, here is what I did in a similar situation, and this is how it worked out for me.
Just a suggestion, lol.
L
Just a suggestion, lol.
L
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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I'll tell you that this was the part that jumped out at me, because it DID work for me:
...followed closely by walking away and doing something else LOL "Maybe you're right" ended a lot of conversations.
I know that's not funny, and I know that when you are still forced (or choose) to live with an active alcoholic for whatever reason, you HAVE to interact unless you take a vow of silence or something...but I tried to minimize it as much as possible and tried never to engage when they were drinking.
That's why I built my own separate life long before I left my X - I needed something to do, somewhere to go, so I didn't have to engage. Part of my detachment.
Thanks, Sandra. I know your intent was good, and though not technically e, s, & h, it did generate a useful conversation, which I think was part of your point. I'm a bookworm too, and I like talking about things that work, things that don't...
Glad we got to run this concept past some recovering alcoholics here rather than field testing it - not sure I'd want to risk the flying bottles in the name of science
Helper: ‘Maybe you’re right.’
I know that's not funny, and I know that when you are still forced (or choose) to live with an active alcoholic for whatever reason, you HAVE to interact unless you take a vow of silence or something...but I tried to minimize it as much as possible and tried never to engage when they were drinking.
That's why I built my own separate life long before I left my X - I needed something to do, somewhere to go, so I didn't have to engage. Part of my detachment.
Thanks, Sandra. I know your intent was good, and though not technically e, s, & h, it did generate a useful conversation, which I think was part of your point. I'm a bookworm too, and I like talking about things that work, things that don't...
Glad we got to run this concept past some recovering alcoholics here rather than field testing it - not sure I'd want to risk the flying bottles in the name of science
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I think asking an alcoholic how they feel is wasted energy and I only say this because of the couples counseling I went through with my xabf.
The counselor would give us communication suggestions before we both knew (me and her) he was an alcoholic. What that did was give him new and interesting ways to manipulate me. Whatever my response was, it got twisted into something else and, in the end, was always my fault anyway. I have to say that by the end, I nearly had a bald spot on my head from scratching it and trying to find different ways to communicate with him. Ugh! I don't miss that.
The only thing that worked for me was to walk away. That also happens to be when I got my life, health and sanity back.
The counselor would give us communication suggestions before we both knew (me and her) he was an alcoholic. What that did was give him new and interesting ways to manipulate me. Whatever my response was, it got twisted into something else and, in the end, was always my fault anyway. I have to say that by the end, I nearly had a bald spot on my head from scratching it and trying to find different ways to communicate with him. Ugh! I don't miss that.
The only thing that worked for me was to walk away. That also happens to be when I got my life, health and sanity back.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
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FWIW, I believe what Sandrawg is trying to get across is called "motivational interviewing". It's a fairly new technique that alcoholism/substance abuse counselors are trained in and it appears to be working. As far as practicing it at home, hey, in my opinion, it couldn't hurt. You can always walk away.
Last edited by queenteree; 07-29-2009 at 10:14 AM.
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Since I'm still with my AH I just say what I need to (he doesn't get physical if he did I would just call the cops)...and he can quack do what he wants... he blames everyone else for all his problems anyway...so at least I feel I say what I need to...
I don't fight with him anymore...(you know scream)...I feel much better not just shutting up and putting up like I use to... maybe that's what they where trying...????
I don't fight with him anymore...(you know scream)...I feel much better not just shutting up and putting up like I use to... maybe that's what they where trying...????
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Hohoho!! the active one I shared one year of my life with (and it seems another year in mourning) did not react at all and he saw my facial expressions, my tears, my anger and my leaving. I am overhearing him right now really excited about how drunk he got last night. And his friends applaud him! Wow it takes a real hero to drink that much !! Sheeesh
I say my energy is already low..... to be walking on eggshells or watching the way I talk.... that is not life. I mean they can lose a partner and their best friend and a car and a job and their home and their family and a finger and their health and what else is there to lose? only their life and for many -sadly- that is sad, yes but its also a RELIEF. I say that because I know the family of one alcoholic who just passed out and what did they say? "we are going to be able to live in peace.. finally".
Sad disease, the more I know this monster the more I know how powerless I am. I can do nothing. NOTHING.
Just live one day at a time to the best of my ability and be kinder to myself.
I say my energy is already low..... to be walking on eggshells or watching the way I talk.... that is not life. I mean they can lose a partner and their best friend and a car and a job and their home and their family and a finger and their health and what else is there to lose? only their life and for many -sadly- that is sad, yes but its also a RELIEF. I say that because I know the family of one alcoholic who just passed out and what did they say? "we are going to be able to live in peace.. finally".
Sad disease, the more I know this monster the more I know how powerless I am. I can do nothing. NOTHING.
Just live one day at a time to the best of my ability and be kinder to myself.
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I read the suggested conversations on that site yesterday, and ever since i have gone into a funk, beating myself up over missed opportunities to have that kind of detached conversation that is soooo successful. So that's why my son is still using - i'm too out of it to have the "right" type of conversation.
It is a goal to reach for - i could do better with everybody I know (addict or not) in having those kinds of conversations.
But i think for today I have to say that pulling off that conversation successfully with 23 YO AS is a stretch. Maybe if he were in a phase where he was very depleted with his lifestyle. But I cannot think of a time when he even started out with a statement such as was suggested where I could have that type of conversation.
But i'll have to remember to try and go in that direction the next time he comes around asking for some kind of help - ask questions. But it would be very difficult for him to admit to me that what i've been saying all along is true - that drugs and alcohol have played a role in the situations he finds himself in. Maybe it takes all types of conversations to get through that foggy brain - my conversation is one that asserts the truth without being concerned about whether he verbally agrees with me or not. I'm gonna trust his HP has other people in his life who can have the type of conversation suggested on the web site.
All roads lead to Rome, I pray.
It is a goal to reach for - i could do better with everybody I know (addict or not) in having those kinds of conversations.
But i think for today I have to say that pulling off that conversation successfully with 23 YO AS is a stretch. Maybe if he were in a phase where he was very depleted with his lifestyle. But I cannot think of a time when he even started out with a statement such as was suggested where I could have that type of conversation.
But i'll have to remember to try and go in that direction the next time he comes around asking for some kind of help - ask questions. But it would be very difficult for him to admit to me that what i've been saying all along is true - that drugs and alcohol have played a role in the situations he finds himself in. Maybe it takes all types of conversations to get through that foggy brain - my conversation is one that asserts the truth without being concerned about whether he verbally agrees with me or not. I'm gonna trust his HP has other people in his life who can have the type of conversation suggested on the web site.
All roads lead to Rome, I pray.
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So that's why my son is still using - i'm too out of it to have the "right" type of conversation.
(((sojourner)))
Your son is still using because he is choosing to do so. I think it is a common element to most people who come to SR that they are searching for just the right magical combination of words to "get them sober." If I just say this, or do this, or don't do this....everything will be all better.
Those things just don't exist, and it is just another dangerous example of how we try to make ourselves responsible for the choices made by addicts and alcoholics.
They will hit bottom when they do. And as you've read above from our recovering community memebers, this line of conversation could just as easily have backfired on you as benefitted. Please don't beat yourself up over this...it really isn't worth it.
But take care of yourself. If your son is going to choose recovery, he will choose it no matter whether you have just the right conversation with him or not.
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Givelove: I was being sarcastic with that comment.
I think what all of us family/friends have struggled with during our recovery is the pull in us to find the "right" way to say and do things in order for our addicted loved ones to see the light.
I'm not saying i don't get those twinges now and then, it's just that they remain twinges. And i have to beware of people/organizations with their suggestions that, although are good suggestions, can cause me to start my own stinking thinking.
I think what all of us family/friends have struggled with during our recovery is the pull in us to find the "right" way to say and do things in order for our addicted loved ones to see the light.
I'm not saying i don't get those twinges now and then, it's just that they remain twinges. And i have to beware of people/organizations with their suggestions that, although are good suggestions, can cause me to start my own stinking thinking.
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Sorry....hard to see the sarcasm in print 
And believe me, there are plenty of people who truly believe there is One Right Way to handle their A loved one that will solve everything. Even those with strong recovery wish it were so easy.
And believe me, there are plenty of people who truly believe there is One Right Way to handle their A loved one that will solve everything. Even those with strong recovery wish it were so easy.
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