Couples Counseling and Recovery

Old 07-20-2009, 11:22 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Couples Counseling and Recovery

I know.... I am going to ask a question that is impossible to answer....

So, my the treatment team for my AGF has come to me to see if I am willing to participate in Couples Counseling. My AGF now has 60+ days of continuous / intensive treatment completed. I guess I am not so much asking a question as I am looking for people's experiences.

On the one hand, it seems very early in her recovery process to introduce Couples work... but on the other hand... the entire family system (including my codependence) is one of the things that both she and I need to work through.

Thoughts? Experience?
TrainWreckAgain is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 11:26 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
MycoolFitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here, Now
Posts: 4,268
Well, I'm 105 daze today but my wife and I have been doing couples work (for better or worse) for awhile now--certainly by 60 days. We don't have the luxury to wait for the ideal time because of serious issues that need to be addressed now or it might turn into never. Just my reality.
MycoolFitz is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 11:33 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Forum Leader
 
Astro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 22,950
Just my two cents worth.....there's no such thing as too much recovery, support, counseling, therapy, etc. The more knowledge and insight the better.
Astro is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 11:42 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
To thine own self be true.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I'd just go. Find out what it's like. If it harms you, apologize, and politely request that it be postponed until you feel ready. I bet you go and you actually benefit from it.
Learn2Live is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 11:52 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Heathen
 
smacked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
I don't think it's too early to incorporate her life partner into recovery goals and counseling. While her recovery really is all hers, her life has a lot to do with you, as does her future.. it's great that you'll be part of the process, I think. My hubby and I started seperate couples counseling as I worked on my recovery with a different addictions therapist, it was awesome, and really helped bring us back together.
smacked is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 12:11 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Su**endering...
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 102
I would go.
FSquared is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 04:39 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
mergirl
 
Gypsy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
My husband wouldn't do it and he's now a bit sad that he's an ex. Don't know if it would have helped, but I don't think it could have hurt
Gypsy Feet is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:15 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
I have been asking for couples counseling since my RAH started his program but was warned by everyone to wait while he had his head cleared. It took awhile for me to realize all that he had to deal with getting sober.

He has 5 1/2 months and we just started counselling and it is good b/c RAH is able to think things through more clearly. I also have had time to learn more about his recovery process, and how his drinking caused problems for us. As a result of just this part, we had less to discuss.

However, since we are planning to move back in together and spending more time together, old issues creep up. These are the things we can talk about in therapy and resolve. - which is what can happen now that my RAH can think and see clearly.

I guess what I am saying that there is much to learn from your RAS - believe me I thought I did my research but I still learned a lot from my RAH. If you can take things slowly and see a therapist who is familiar with Alcoholism and recovery go for it.
Kassie2 is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:11 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
I would hope to get a couple's counselor with training in addictions and codependency.
Chrysalis123 is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:55 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

I talked to my AGF's case manager and said that yes, I am willing to participate.

Having said that, I am not sure that it is going to happen.

My AGF sent me an e-mail last night, that upon reading this morning struck me as kind of odd. The tone and content of the e-mail was really flat and made no mention of counseling, trying to work things out, or anything about the future really at all.

The e-mail did have some sentences in it in which she accepted some responsibility for all that had happend. But 2 things jumped out at me. First, she spoke about caring for me, but not once did the word love appear. Second, she said, "... I hope that one day you will listen and accept my apology."

In other posts, you may have seen me commenting on how I feel I live in limbo. A voice in the back of my head said... is the whole idea of counseling just a way to string me along?

So, I sent my her an e-mail today bluntly asking her two questions:

1. Do you love me? and
2. Do you want to build a life with me?

She repsonded, but did not answer. She essentially said, please give me time to respond correctly. I will respond tomorrow evening.

I may be wrong... but it seemed to me that these are fairly fundamental questions that can be answered either yes, or "not yes" (with a maybe or I don't know falling into the not yes category along with an outright no).

I am doing my best to give it to God, but it seems to me that the "I'll answer in a day" is a Not Yes in and of itself.
TrainWreckAgain is offline  
Old 07-20-2009, 11:36 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Being Silent so I can Hear
 
Still Waters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Counseling is absolutely useless unless those participating are being honest with themselves and the counselor. It has been my experience that those in early recovery (and later in my situation) are either incapable of being honest, or unwilling.

In that case, it only serves to cause more pain, confusion, and manipulation.
Still Waters is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 05:30 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
To thine own self be true.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Hey TrainWreckAgain

Are you in recovery too? Are you going to Al-Anon? Are you working on yourself? Are you in therapy? Everything I say in response to your post are all the same things I have been saying to myself for the past two years. So, please don't take my response personally. Your post helps me tremendously because it reminds me of who I am and what I do.

I don't want to sound mean but it sounds to me like you are still reading into her words and behavior (trying to figure her out, trying to avoid getting used again, trying to avoid being hurt again) when what might be more helpful is for you to look at yourself and your life.

It really doesn't matter whether or not, right now, she SAYs she loves you, or whether or not she SAYs she wants to spend the rest of her life with you, or whether or not she accepts responsibility for your relationship. It sounds to me like you want her to focus on your relationship, your feelings, allaying your anxiety, deciding the rest of your lives, her commitment to you, etc but that is not her job right now. Her job right now is to get and stay clean and sober, and to work on HERSELF.

Listen to what she said in response to your demands: "please give me time to respond correctly. I will respond tomorrow evening." You are forcing her to take care of YOUR feelings. Now she's worried that she won't respond correctly. How is this helping her recovery? You are asking a person to make major, anxiety-producing decisions, when the person is hardly capable of taking care of herself. She's in an institution, right? People are not institutionalized in a medical facility except when they cannot take care of themselves and/or are in danger of harming themselves or others.

You can't hear "tone" in an email. I have had many fights and lost friends by people (including me) reading the "tone" of an email.

You are letting your anxiety and your fears get the best of you. If you are willing to continue your relationship with this woman, then go to the counseling and see if it helps you. It really doesn't matter whether or not the counseling helps HER. The counseling is not going to change her.

You live in limbo because you CHOOSE to live in limbo, regardless of whether or not she's stringing you along.
Learn2Live is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 06:37 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Su**endering...
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 102
"1. Do you love me? and
2. Do you want to build a life with me?"


In my experience, those can be tricky questions when they are early in recovery. You're expecting one of two answers and you're getting neither. Its your expectations that are out of whack here. In my case, the more I realized I was "needing" THE ANSWER...the more I realized that I needed to focus on myself and what was going on with me.

Yes, I'd really love the answers to those questions. But I'm working on letting the answers come in her time...and being certain of my own answers to them. It is a real struggle.

But she is a human being with her own will and life. Letting go of any control and trusting that I will be ok whatever happens is hard.

I would caution against seeking any answers at the couples counseling. Expectations of outcomes only sets the stage for disappointment. A session or two is not going to break through the years of insanity, miscommunication, distrust, etc. that comes with alcoholic/addict relationships. Try to go with an open mind and accept whatever happens. Regardless, treat it like an opportunity to grow in your own recovery.
FSquared is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 06:46 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Learn2,

Thanks for your very candid response. Part of what is truly valuable SR is the willingness of people to share openly and honestly from their experience. I value what you said more than you know.

In response to a couple of your points, I am in recovery myself. I go to Al Anon meetings and have a therapist once a week who is well versed in both addiction and co-dependence. Having said that, I am still early in my recovery.

Much of what you say is true. I am trying avoid being hurt more than I have been. It is fueled by my own fears and insecurities. I am trying to figure out if I am at the point where I walk away. I understand I am the one who choses to live in limbo.

My thought process, however flawed, was basically if she doesn't want a relationship, why are we doing counseling. I am going to talk to my therapist today.
TrainWreckAgain is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 07:11 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
GiveLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
TrainWreck,

Sending you hugs to get through the next few hours. Like you, I am a pretty rational, linear thinker, and I find it very hard to be in suspense. You want to know if she wants to build a life with you -- that's a huge thing to be hanging out there, waiting for someone else's response. Just wanted to acknowledge that and send you my support....I'm glad you have a therapy appt today. It always helped me.

Remember too that if you choose to separate for your own mental health right now, she is still walking this earth and you are still walking this earth, and there is nothing keeping you from exploring a relationship at some other point in your lives, when perhaps you're both in a better, more stable place emotionally. This is not the end of the world; this is just doing the "next right thing" for yourself.

Hugs,
GL

Last edited by GiveLove; 07-21-2009 at 10:44 AM. Reason: preposition trouble...
GiveLove is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 08:06 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Givelove,

Thanks for the reply and the encouragement. It may be that the answer if for us to go our separate ways and if in the future, we find our way back when we are both in a healthier place, then so be it.

It is made harder and more complicated by the fact she has kids, and for the last 18 months, as she slid further into her addiction, I have been taking care of them full time. She is in not capable right now of caring for them and none of her family members or the members of the bio-dad are in a position to care for them as well.

I am struggling with how I go my separate way and still take care of those kids. None of this is their fault. And, for me, putting them in the foster care system is just not an option.

Time for more prayer.
TrainWreckAgain is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 09:03 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
To thine own self be true.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
For two years now (two years of dealing with a man who is addicted to EVERYTHING: crack, booze, gambling, food, money, women, porn, you name it) my mother (who NEVER tells me what to do in my life but who is a very strong and happy woman) has been telling me:

1. always follow your heart.
2. always follow your morals and your values.

And she is right. It got me through these past two years and I'm a better person for it.

You don't need to make these decisions right now and you shouldn't. In fact, all you need to do is follow rules 1 and 2 above. You are a good person and it is very rare that you find a person who will take care of someone else's children just because they care. Try not to worry about what will happen in the future. One day at a time baby!
Learn2Live is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 09:12 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
To thine own self be true.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Oh, just thought of one more thing. Whether she loves you or not, and whether she wants to build a life with you or not, she may not be able to give you the kind of relationship you want. These things really have nothing to do with one another. Believe me, she already hates herself enough and bringing this up time and again only points out to her how much of a "loser" she already feels she is. Just one more thing she can't handle.
Learn2Live is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 09:50 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Learn2,

I have a very hard time with the live one day at a time. I hear at at Al Anon and read it in their literature, but I am not there yet.

Your mom's advice is sound.... she sounds like a terrific lady.

It is an interesting point about her not being able to give me the kind of relationship I want.... or even that she wants for that matter.

I hear what you are saying about making her feel worse. What I will say is that she has been gone in treatment for almost 4 months now. Durning that time she has said on numerous occasions that she hates me, doesn't want to be with me and that we are through. I have said nothing in return. Durning the last 5 weeks, she has been pretty much in a no contact mode.

As I look back on my feelings and emotions, the thing that really got to me in her e-mail to me was the use of the word "caring" and not the word "love." She tends to be very deliberate in her choices of words.

As I try to follow my heart, I am willing to give her time to sort things out. What my FEAR is, is that she (a) has figured out that she does not want to be with me and is not telling me or (b) that she will never really figure it out.

More for me to ponder...
TrainWreckAgain is offline  
Old 07-21-2009, 10:13 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Su**endering...
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 102
Hmmmmm....

For me, the REAL fear is not that she doesn't want to be with me...but that I am not lovable, not good enough, etc. After all...haven't we invested every ounce of ourselves in "making" these relationships work? If that isn't good enough...and we are rejected by this other person....we fear that we don't have enough to give anyone.

THAT is REAL fear.

And it is irrational.

We are basing our worth, our lovability, our sense of wholeness on the acceptance of another human being...who has their own will, wants, needs, desires, issues, etc.

Unfortunately for me, I've ingrained this thought pattern so much that it is going to take A LOT of work and help to change. Even knowing the above, every perceived rejection turns into "See, Brian...you really do SUCK!" in my head.

Its maddening. I'm wearing a rubber band around my wrist right now that I snap whenever I recognize negative thoughts like that. I think I might have a permanent red mark by the end of the week!
FSquared is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:53 AM.