Uncertain times...
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Uncertain times...
Seems I started my post in the wrong place. Someone should have told me.
Seems to be a lot of information to absorb.
Story in brief, I married but separated from H who has 5 months of sobriety. We have only been married 2 -1/2 years. Separated twice b/c of his drinking. Planning to move back in together this fall.
MC starts this weekend - can't wait to see how that will go. Wonder what to cover realistically? Wonder what to expect when we are under the same roof. After reading some threads - I am feeling a little scared.
H seems to be good - handles things differently now, shows and verbalizes appreciation, is happy (never was before), really wants to change old behavior.
I don't even know what to ask...
Seems to be a lot of information to absorb.
Story in brief, I married but separated from H who has 5 months of sobriety. We have only been married 2 -1/2 years. Separated twice b/c of his drinking. Planning to move back in together this fall.
MC starts this weekend - can't wait to see how that will go. Wonder what to cover realistically? Wonder what to expect when we are under the same roof. After reading some threads - I am feeling a little scared.
H seems to be good - handles things differently now, shows and verbalizes appreciation, is happy (never was before), really wants to change old behavior.
I don't even know what to ask...
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Hi Kassie,
Welcome to SR and the Friends and Family forum.
MC = Marriage Counseling, right?
Marriage counseling might be helpful to you in learning to communicate with each other (w/o alcohol). It will really be helpful if the counselor has some background in addiction counseling.
H = husband, right? We often refer to our alcoholic spouse as AH or AW here. If they are sober and working a program of recovery, we refer to them as RAH or RAW. I'm a RAXW! I'm a recovering alcoholic ex wife. My husband and I seperated after I got sober and he continued drinking. I began to work on my recovery. Then I began to attend Al Anon meetings to begin to deal with my issues of co-dependancy. I'm a former fixer upper! If you were broken, I'd try to help you fix yourself, then I'd become upset if you didn't fix like I wanted you to. And I became furious if you didn't appreciate my efforts. Whew! I'm exhausted just repeating what a mess I was.
I found lots of information and support here at SR. I also find help and support throught face to face meetings of AA and Al Anon. Please make yourself at home here and read, read, read and post as much as you need. I learned so much about myself and my situation by reading the "sticky" posts at the top of the Friends and Family forum page. I also learned that I am not alone. There are many alcoholics, and for every alcoholic there is a friend or family dealing with the fallout of the addiction.
Welcome to SR and the Friends and Family forum.
MC = Marriage Counseling, right?
Marriage counseling might be helpful to you in learning to communicate with each other (w/o alcohol). It will really be helpful if the counselor has some background in addiction counseling.
H = husband, right? We often refer to our alcoholic spouse as AH or AW here. If they are sober and working a program of recovery, we refer to them as RAH or RAW. I'm a RAXW! I'm a recovering alcoholic ex wife. My husband and I seperated after I got sober and he continued drinking. I began to work on my recovery. Then I began to attend Al Anon meetings to begin to deal with my issues of co-dependancy. I'm a former fixer upper! If you were broken, I'd try to help you fix yourself, then I'd become upset if you didn't fix like I wanted you to. And I became furious if you didn't appreciate my efforts. Whew! I'm exhausted just repeating what a mess I was.
I found lots of information and support here at SR. I also find help and support throught face to face meetings of AA and Al Anon. Please make yourself at home here and read, read, read and post as much as you need. I learned so much about myself and my situation by reading the "sticky" posts at the top of the Friends and Family forum page. I also learned that I am not alone. There are many alcoholics, and for every alcoholic there is a friend or family dealing with the fallout of the addiction.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 108
Don't let what you read here scare you. There are lots of stories of recovering alcoholics who have made happy marriages with their significant others. Every situation is different and you can't let other people's situations paint your future. But this doesn't mean you can't read all of this info and take it in and gaurd yourself with it. You will learn here to look out for certain signs. You will find support when you are down. You will find lots of advice from experienced posters. This is a great place. Please don't hold back and feel free to rant or even post the great things.
Light and Love,
Sarah
Light and Love,
Sarah
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi kassie-
try not to project into the future. best to take it one day at a time.
as for your counseling session and not knowing where to start, you could start just how you started here....by saying you are scared to live together again and the reasons thereof...
naive
try not to project into the future. best to take it one day at a time.
as for your counseling session and not knowing where to start, you could start just how you started here....by saying you are scared to live together again and the reasons thereof...
naive
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MC went well. Have a question for everyone. I am seeing many good changes, but this week began to wonder if they will last. This is based on the idea that perhaps he is able to make these changes just to get back under the same roof - and then what?
Any comments welcomed!
Any comments welcomed!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
It's hard to see into someone else's heart...especially through the web. If you are seeing positive changes that seem sincere, you may have genuine recovery in action.
There are so many wonderful success stories of alcoholics that make complete recovery and live fulfilling lives. There are a lot of examples of those people here at SR. There are some alcoholics that make great strides in recovery, and they slip and fall back into their addiction. There are examples of that here also. There just isn't a way to predict the future of your alcoholic.
I have spoken with members of Al Anon that have been married for more than 20 years with their spouses sober over 10 years. They still take it one day at a time. They also still have a plan B. They still keep their finances seperate, they keep a set of keys to the car when they are at social gatherings where alcohol is served and some other steps to protect themselves in case of a relapse.
You see, for them recovery is a wonderfully positive thing in their marriages. The alcoholic is continuing to grow in recovery. The normies (non-addicted) of these relationships have also committed to their own recovery. For some people that means accepting that their partner may have a relapse one day. Therefore, they prefer to always have a plan B.
You can take steps to help yourself during this transition. MC is a great step and I am glad you gave us the update that it turned out well. I hope you continue to get the support you need to take care of You.
There are so many wonderful success stories of alcoholics that make complete recovery and live fulfilling lives. There are a lot of examples of those people here at SR. There are some alcoholics that make great strides in recovery, and they slip and fall back into their addiction. There are examples of that here also. There just isn't a way to predict the future of your alcoholic.
I have spoken with members of Al Anon that have been married for more than 20 years with their spouses sober over 10 years. They still take it one day at a time. They also still have a plan B. They still keep their finances seperate, they keep a set of keys to the car when they are at social gatherings where alcohol is served and some other steps to protect themselves in case of a relapse.
You see, for them recovery is a wonderfully positive thing in their marriages. The alcoholic is continuing to grow in recovery. The normies (non-addicted) of these relationships have also committed to their own recovery. For some people that means accepting that their partner may have a relapse one day. Therefore, they prefer to always have a plan B.
You can take steps to help yourself during this transition. MC is a great step and I am glad you gave us the update that it turned out well. I hope you continue to get the support you need to take care of You.
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I have set things up to be separate but there are times when I feel as though I am not able to relax. Is this part of the change?
At the same time, RAH is requesting some changes requiring bills to be in both names and wanting to take responsibility for paying the bills which I think is good and yet scared. Until now, everything had been in my name only. We made such a mess with bank account changes, that I did agree to keep separate accounts and encourage that we each take care of our own personal finances.
I have also had the occassional thought to carry extra keys and money but thought I was being dishonest in having a plan B. Now I am hearing I should?
And while I understand that he could relapse, how does one plan for that?
At the same time, RAH is requesting some changes requiring bills to be in both names and wanting to take responsibility for paying the bills which I think is good and yet scared. Until now, everything had been in my name only. We made such a mess with bank account changes, that I did agree to keep separate accounts and encourage that we each take care of our own personal finances.
I have also had the occassional thought to carry extra keys and money but thought I was being dishonest in having a plan B. Now I am hearing I should?
And while I understand that he could relapse, how does one plan for that?
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Hi Kassie,
Hopefully you and your husband will be a success story. I wouldn't be scared of bad outcomes that are not present in your life. I might view other's stories as education or how life could go when people aren't choosing to be healthy and grow. It sounds like that is not your story. :-)
Hopefully you and your husband will be a success story. I wouldn't be scared of bad outcomes that are not present in your life. I might view other's stories as education or how life could go when people aren't choosing to be healthy and grow. It sounds like that is not your story. :-)
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I don't have the best track record with combined accounts. My personal experience teaches me that I will keep my own accounts and not have joint credit accounts in the future.
You seem to be following your gut and taking steps to protect yourself, then you begin to question your motives. It's okay to take care of yourself. It's okay to be prepared. Living with an addict can cause us to doubt our decisions. I have had to work on that area of my life. I am learning that I can trust my own instincts for my life. I can make good decisions. I can make bad decisions and I can change my mind.
Trust yourself. You can make good decisions, follow your instincts. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of your choices. They are your choices and I hope they bring you peace!
You seem to be following your gut and taking steps to protect yourself, then you begin to question your motives. It's okay to take care of yourself. It's okay to be prepared. Living with an addict can cause us to doubt our decisions. I have had to work on that area of my life. I am learning that I can trust my own instincts for my life. I can make good decisions. I can make bad decisions and I can change my mind.
Trust yourself. You can make good decisions, follow your instincts. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of your choices. They are your choices and I hope they bring you peace!
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Thanks,
When I started my own recovery I decided that my instincts were usually right and during my relationship with RAH I pushed past my gut reactions to please him. Often I tried to rationalize that I needed to try to see things from his perspective. Eventually I realized that I was wrong. Now I try to go with my instincts, and I tried to see things from another perspective as well, and then if my body says it is ok... I go with it. Sometimes I am not ok and this is where I have a problem... an expected one though... learning to trust him again. I have problems with the memories, and then there is the "normal" stuff of Marriages that raises questions. Honestly, I am seeing a different side of him and learning more about his motives etc and I like what I see and hear.
I think that was all jumbled but hopefully people will understand.
When I started my own recovery I decided that my instincts were usually right and during my relationship with RAH I pushed past my gut reactions to please him. Often I tried to rationalize that I needed to try to see things from his perspective. Eventually I realized that I was wrong. Now I try to go with my instincts, and I tried to see things from another perspective as well, and then if my body says it is ok... I go with it. Sometimes I am not ok and this is where I have a problem... an expected one though... learning to trust him again. I have problems with the memories, and then there is the "normal" stuff of Marriages that raises questions. Honestly, I am seeing a different side of him and learning more about his motives etc and I like what I see and hear.
I think that was all jumbled but hopefully people will understand.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Your post made sense to me.
You are learning new coping skills, and so is he.
Your marriage with a recovering alcoholic is like attending a dance.
The partner is the same.
The dance hall is familiar.
The music is familiar.
However, it's a new style dance you will be attempting. Some toes may get stepped on, but you'll figure it out together.
You keep working your recovery, and listening to your inner voice. You can share your feelings and concerns as you become aware of them. That is being true to yourself.
Peace and hugs to you!
You are learning new coping skills, and so is he.
Your marriage with a recovering alcoholic is like attending a dance.
The partner is the same.
The dance hall is familiar.
The music is familiar.
However, it's a new style dance you will be attempting. Some toes may get stepped on, but you'll figure it out together.
You keep working your recovery, and listening to your inner voice. You can share your feelings and concerns as you become aware of them. That is being true to yourself.
Peace and hugs to you!
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Posts: 985
Just read step one and realize that my fear shows up in two places - the first is understanding how to respond to the disease of alcoholism when it shows up, and the second is recognizing that my RAH has his own timing and learning pace.
I don't know if it always makes sense to me to respond to his "illness" as a regular illness. I also am learning to see his symptoms and watch him struggle to figure out how to manage instead of jumping to point it out and tell him what to do - unless he asks if I have any ideas.
Are there times when it doesn't make sense to others? Can anyone help me make more sense out of it? I can tell that my lack of understanding on this matter does lend some toe stepping in the relationship.
I don't know if it always makes sense to me to respond to his "illness" as a regular illness. I also am learning to see his symptoms and watch him struggle to figure out how to manage instead of jumping to point it out and tell him what to do - unless he asks if I have any ideas.
Are there times when it doesn't make sense to others? Can anyone help me make more sense out of it? I can tell that my lack of understanding on this matter does lend some toe stepping in the relationship.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
I understand. But since my stbx is not recovering i don't want to give my thoughts here. In my opinion I think this would be worth asking the thoughts of the RA sponsors on SR. On the Alcoholism 12 step support. They will be able to give you thoughts on what the BB says about "illness" and/or spiritual disease.
I don't know if it always makes sense to me to respond to his "illness" as a regular illness. I also am learning to see his symptoms and watch him struggle to figure out how to manage instead of jumping to point it out and tell him what to do - unless he asks if I have any ideas.
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We are in MC. Last week went great in session. My concerns about husband's complancey came up from the IC. Husband now past the six month mark. Stopped going to meetings, still sober though, keeps up therapy and church and now is running again. Keeps busy and keeps improving his joy in life, and improving his coping. But the IC confronted him on the meetings and he returned. People from the meetings still call and he will talk to them, he just won't initiate calls.
However, this week he has been a little on edge - he has been aware of it - and controlling it. I have my own stuff going on and started to feel "eggshells" again. Tonight the strain of the week ended in an argument. The difference is that we worked it out quickly and are ok.
My concern/question: this happens about once a month - therapist suggests that it is normal and to see/treat it as a relapse without the alcohol and that it will get better with time. True or false?
My RAH has a complicated history briefly described as growing up in a seriously dysfunctional family and spending his adult life in an alcoholic fog. How much change can I really expect? I am talking about things like... the need for instant gratification, taking things so seriously and intensely, the selfcenteredness and lack of concern for others feelings, being out of touch with his feelings, and general disconnectedness to life and normalcy.
I know it sounds like I am expecting a lot - these questions are just meant to gather general information from others and not meant to suggest that these things change overnight or that my RAH is lacking in good qualities or not growing. Just looking for some time table or hope. I think if these things will not change, our relationship and life will be very difficult.
Help wanted!
However, this week he has been a little on edge - he has been aware of it - and controlling it. I have my own stuff going on and started to feel "eggshells" again. Tonight the strain of the week ended in an argument. The difference is that we worked it out quickly and are ok.
My concern/question: this happens about once a month - therapist suggests that it is normal and to see/treat it as a relapse without the alcohol and that it will get better with time. True or false?
My RAH has a complicated history briefly described as growing up in a seriously dysfunctional family and spending his adult life in an alcoholic fog. How much change can I really expect? I am talking about things like... the need for instant gratification, taking things so seriously and intensely, the selfcenteredness and lack of concern for others feelings, being out of touch with his feelings, and general disconnectedness to life and normalcy.
I know it sounds like I am expecting a lot - these questions are just meant to gather general information from others and not meant to suggest that these things change overnight or that my RAH is lacking in good qualities or not growing. Just looking for some time table or hope. I think if these things will not change, our relationship and life will be very difficult.
Help wanted!
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 75
much change
My RAH has a complicated history briefly described as growing up in a seriously dysfunctional family and spending his adult life in an alcoholic fog. How much change can I really expect? I am talking about things like... the need for instant gratification, taking things so seriously and intensely, the selfcenteredness and lack of concern for others feelings, being out of touch with his feelings, and general disconnectedness to life and normalcy.
:But it's also one half of one inch away from this feeling of clarity.
Do I really *want* him to put my needs before his needs? If we have a disagreement, do I really want *me* to put his needs before my needs?
On a really fundamental level, can I rely on myself to make sure my needs are met? I guess that's my idea of plan B. Do I have a plan to make sure my needs are met if this person that I love gets sidetracked in ways that I can't control? Can I pay my bills, can I have dinner parties, can I take classes, can I enjoy my life if he's on an upswing or if he's on a downswing? Can I take care of the basic things I need to be happy no matter what?
And then I try to continue looking at myself, and seeing if the lack or normalcy, or the challenging family of origin stuff comes up for me as well as for him. And then I try to think about those issues in terms of me. It may sound silly, but once in awhile I notice that I have my own issues, like maybe given his background and looking at me from his point of view I'm not normal. Hah! (oh well!)
On a more practical level, because you're moving back in together I think it's really reasonable to respect your gut instinct and keep an eye on what you need. If you need your finances to be in order, I am of the opinion that it is OK for you to be able to control your finances. But then again, each partnership runs according to the rules that are negotiated by the people in it, not the people looking in.
I'm happy for you that if you hit days you're tired and stumbling that you can navigate and step back and recognize what's up and work things out more easily than before.
I hope that the changes and growth you both are going through bring you much peace and much joy . . . and that you find grace in surrendering to a HP that has your best interests at heart.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the big ole' world....
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Originally Posted by Kassie2 
However, this week he has been a little on edge - he has been aware of it - and controlling it. I have my own stuff going on and started to feel "eggshells" again. Tonight the strain of the week ended in an argument. The difference is that we worked it out quickly and are ok.
Originally Posted by Kassie2
My concern/question: this happens about once a month - therapist suggests that it is normal and to see/treat it as a relapse without the alcohol and that it will get better with time. True or false?
Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (Why we don’t get better immediately) Digital Dharma
This site helped me gain a good understanding of what's going on after they stop drinking.
Originally Posted by Kassie2
My RAH has a complicated history briefly described as growing up in a seriously dysfunctional family and spending his adult life in an alcoholic fog. How much change can I really expect? I am talking about things like... the need for instant gratification, taking things so seriously and intensely, the selfcenteredness and lack of concern for others feelings, being out of touch with his feelings, and general disconnectedness to life and normalcy.
Originally Posted by Kassie2
Just looking for some time table or hope.
Originally Posted by Kassie2
I think if these things will not change, our relationship and life will be very difficult.
The courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference."
The next part of the prayer blows me away....
"Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next."
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 43
Where's the fire?? This man seems to be in a real hurry. Hurrying to "finish" AA (although many believe it is a lifelong program), hurrying to move in together, hurrying to get the bills in his name. If he's in a hurry, maybe HE needs to figure out why. In the meantime, YOU go at a pace that's comfortable for Kassie!
If you feel ready, take your big step together and move in together. And if/when enough time has passed that you realize your trust in him has not wavered, then you can consider the next big step. This is a normal way of doing things, whether there is addiction involved or not.
If he is pressuring you in any way, that is a warning to you that he might be having some "once x, y, and z happens, everything will be perfect" thinking, which is a dangerous place for anyone -- especially recovering a's.
On the positive side, six months is a great start, as is his willingness to participate in MC.
best,
at2
If you feel ready, take your big step together and move in together. And if/when enough time has passed that you realize your trust in him has not wavered, then you can consider the next big step. This is a normal way of doing things, whether there is addiction involved or not.
If he is pressuring you in any way, that is a warning to you that he might be having some "once x, y, and z happens, everything will be perfect" thinking, which is a dangerous place for anyone -- especially recovering a's.
On the positive side, six months is a great start, as is his willingness to participate in MC.
best,at2
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Good points everyone!
I know this is the instant gratification stuff... the hurrying... I actually put him off from the beginning many times. I have two older children at home who lived through the past three years with me and my RAH (who was not in recovery at the time). I had decided that I would not allow him to move back in while they were there unless he had developed a very good sobriety and a good rapport with them. As it turns out, both are moving out now on their own- RAH has been spending weekends at my home and the kids told me they were happy that he got sober and I was able to forgive - saying that forgiveness if good. (this coming from the non-spiritual kid) I trust my kids instincts.
Part of the hurry part was about money - he is in an apt and the lease was up - choices were at the time... move or stay for another year. Neither of us wanted to wait another year. While deciding, since I wasn't ready for him to move in with me,(and praying) he gets a notice that the management now offers short term leases but at a much higher cost. I saw this as an answer - and he took them up on it. I saw this as his willingness to work with me.
I guess I have to say that I did feel that he was pushing me at first and I thought that my choices were: A) set a date and change it if needed, B) don't set a date and see what he does with that response, or C) insist on my way. Immediately I felt that if we were going to function as a couple then we needed to compromise so I went with A.
It has been changed for various reasons. I figured if I couldn't learn to trust him then what was the point of trying. So far I feel it is an ok decision. We are struggling once in a while getting to know each other again - and my RAH has his moments, but he is proving to be reliable, thoughtful, helpful, forgiving, and humble. He recognizes his shortcomings and is learning how to deal with them. He is opening up to me more than ever and trusting me. He also accepts that there is work to be done to repair and rebuild this relationship. I can actually say that I admire my RAH. Isn't that great!
MC is going well, its informative and life changing. The C understands my concerns and communicates well with RAH. Earlier issues raised have been answered for me through MC, experience, and readings here. I know things will change and these changes will last as much as I can right now. I am dealing with my own stuff as well to through the steps and this site.
I know this is the instant gratification stuff... the hurrying... I actually put him off from the beginning many times. I have two older children at home who lived through the past three years with me and my RAH (who was not in recovery at the time). I had decided that I would not allow him to move back in while they were there unless he had developed a very good sobriety and a good rapport with them. As it turns out, both are moving out now on their own- RAH has been spending weekends at my home and the kids told me they were happy that he got sober and I was able to forgive - saying that forgiveness if good. (this coming from the non-spiritual kid) I trust my kids instincts.
Part of the hurry part was about money - he is in an apt and the lease was up - choices were at the time... move or stay for another year. Neither of us wanted to wait another year. While deciding, since I wasn't ready for him to move in with me,(and praying) he gets a notice that the management now offers short term leases but at a much higher cost. I saw this as an answer - and he took them up on it. I saw this as his willingness to work with me.
I guess I have to say that I did feel that he was pushing me at first and I thought that my choices were: A) set a date and change it if needed, B) don't set a date and see what he does with that response, or C) insist on my way. Immediately I felt that if we were going to function as a couple then we needed to compromise so I went with A.
It has been changed for various reasons. I figured if I couldn't learn to trust him then what was the point of trying. So far I feel it is an ok decision. We are struggling once in a while getting to know each other again - and my RAH has his moments, but he is proving to be reliable, thoughtful, helpful, forgiving, and humble. He recognizes his shortcomings and is learning how to deal with them. He is opening up to me more than ever and trusting me. He also accepts that there is work to be done to repair and rebuild this relationship. I can actually say that I admire my RAH. Isn't that great!
MC is going well, its informative and life changing. The C understands my concerns and communicates well with RAH. Earlier issues raised have been answered for me through MC, experience, and readings here. I know things will change and these changes will last as much as I can right now. I am dealing with my own stuff as well to through the steps and this site.
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