Pelican

Hi all,

I often respond to threads here. Today I thought I would start a thread. I had a light buld moment this morning and wanted to share with you.
I caught myself in codie mode! Yep, I broke a rule: Say it once, anything more is obsessive. I caught myself while replying to "whyamistaying's" thread. I have said that I thought it would be healthy to legally seperate and allow her AH to sink or swim (in a lot more words). Then I thought I had not conveyed my thoughts as clearly as possible, so I expounded more, then more, etc.... (i've also done this with other threads). I try to share from the heart, and I hope to contine to do so. But I really wanted my words to make a difference in their lives. My words, their lives. See the light buld?

This is a daily reading from Hazleden's website. It really spoke to me and I'd like to share it with you:
Today's thought from Hazelden is:

What I said never changed anybody; what they understood did.
--Paul. P.

How often have we given our all to change somebody else? How frantically have we tried to force a loved one to see the light? How hopelessly have we watched a destructive pattern - perhaps a pattern we know well from personal experience - bring terrible pain to someone who is dear to us?

All of us have.

We would do anything to save the people we love. In our desperation, we imagine that if we say just the right words in just the right way, our loved ones will understand.

If change happens, we think our efforts have succeeded.

If change doesn't happen, we think our efforts have failed. But neither is true. Even our best efforts don't have the power to change someone else. Nor do we have that responsibility. People are only persuaded by what they understand. And they, as we, can understand a deeper truth only when it is their time to grow toward deeper understanding. Not before.

Today, I will focus on changing myself and entrust those I love to the Higher Power who loves them even more than I do.

My words never changed anybody. Their understanding is what changed them.

A favorite quote is by **** Dioum:

"In the end we will conserve that which we love,
we love that which we understand,
and understand that which we are taught."

I so appreciate the wisdom shared here. I have understood and learned so much about myself from the wisdom and experience expressed by GiveLove, Bernadette, LaTeeDa, Freedom, Freya, Ann, Ago, ToughChoices and many more.

Thank you for teaching others through your experiences, so that we may understand, and learn to love ourselves.:ghug2

laurie6781

Pelican, lol, you are not alone. I have caught myself doing that, w3ith several on here and have really been trying to 'curb' it.

I have found that if I start repeating myself to the same poster I get frustrated. I, am still learning, like everyone else, and most of the time do understand that they just might not be 'ready' to take the next step yet.

My biggest 'repeats' are when I see 'danger' (physical abuse and children).

But I sure do understand this one real well, lmao

Thank you for bringing it to light.

Love and hugs,

GiveLove

Physical abuse and children trapped in alcoholic relationships are definitely our two biggest triggers here on FFA....and when we see the most "repeats", people trying to drive home their point first by explaining, then sometimes by shaming, and then even by personal attacks. It's a difficult situation to try to manage (for both staff and other members), because we see damage being done and want to help stop it.

And believe me, as a victim of BOTH situations in my younger days, there's no one here who has a stronger craving to repeat (and repeat and repeat and repeat) than me. No one.
It is my burden as a codie that I think: If I just say the right thing, or say it differently, or say it more powerfully or more cleverly, it will squeeze through the armor of denial this person is wearing, and I can save them.

Thanks for this reminder today, pelican. It's good for a few more weeks of keeping my itchy fingers off the keyboard when I have already done the best I could: shown a different way, offered a way to get there, and given a boost of energy & self-worth to help them on their way.

Say something once, I'm doing it for them.
Say it again and again, I'm doing it for me.

Thanks for a lot to think about this morning.

KittyTET

That is EXACTLY what I needed to read today. Thank you so much for sharing this.

Gypsy Feet

I find practicing some of my newly found detaching skills the hardest here on SR haha.

In my 'real" world, I am ever vigilant to not try and control my daughter or my (ex). I stay in my own business pretty well. Here on SR, some days I have the answers for everyone

Thanks for the reminder:ghug2

Ago

I have NO idea what you are saying and don't relate at all, and think this is a SILLY topic

/tries to sneak away















/heaves a big deep heartfelt sigh from the depths of his idiotic soul



My "light bulb" moment this week has concerned this exact issue, first, learning that standing in front of someone who can't or won't "see" or "hear" me and saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over is not in fact, "enforcing a boundary", which is the basis of my "failing" for the last five years and ultimately lead to me being here.

I couldn't figure it out, I literally didn't understand where I was "doing it wrong" that was causing so much wreckage.

I walk up to person A, B, or C and say "when you ____ I feel ____" and the situation is resolved with a minimum of fuss

I walk up to person D, E, and F and say THE SAME EXACT THING and it's World War III, it's armafrickingeddon, so rather then just let it go, I'll say it again 5-10 times, obviously I am not being clear, the first five or six times, I get more and more "gracious", then I just get angrier, and angrier, and ultimately can be pretty nasty, to coin a phrase that some here will recognize:

He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the "situation" does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying.

Then I cross the invisible line:

What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

So. F'ing. Tedious.

I mean this is IT, the root issue that has caused untold havoc in my life and incredible pain and suffering, not only to me, but to those around me ultimately for the last five years.

I don't want it any more.

bb1sted

blessed4x

Oh my, Pelican! You have opened up a whole big can of worms for me. The title of the thread: I never changed anybody with my words... is the epitome of my marriage. I spent 22 years....22 stinkin' years!!!....trying to change STBXAH (yup, still married) with my words. I quit talkin, started walkin, and just like that he quit drinking. It's been about 3 months now. I don't know if he's in recovery or not, and for the first time in my life I don't have to be the judge of that, nor be his saviour if he falls.

For his sake, and for our kids that will be spending time with him, I hope he can find peace and contentment within himself. I pray for him often....I'm pretty sure those are the ONLY words I have to say that could make a difference.

MeHandle

awesome pelican!!!! Totally agree. My short view of the way I try and practice this is before I push the send button I considered whether I just want to be heard or I have a heart to serve in love, or open to receiving.

It is one of the reason I sign love. Once I push the button I know I have a God who is a higher judge then anyway who reads what I write. He knows my heart and brings me peace or deals with me.:-)

Even in changing myself I really have to entrust myself to God and let God change me. I get the directions from Him.:-) I am in a great place right now with this. I am smiling these days when I call out I surrender God. It is awesome to be set free!!!

love tammy
Jesus said: "know the truth and the truth will set you free"

Still Waters

Yeah, I can relate to that. But why is it that we blame ourselves when person D takes it totally differently than person A (and blames us)?

One nice thing about "being done" for me is that I'm just flat DONE - and that means in general, not just with the AH.

"Oh? Your life is a mess because your sister in law is a meddler and won't invite you to a family gathering? I see. So, we're getting a lot of rain lately aren't we?"

Gypsy Feet

I giggled

DesertEyes

bump. For everybody who wants to help.

Mike

trapeze

Great thread.

When I first came here, I noticed how some folks (don't remember who, not talking about anyone in particular) posted like they had everyone's problems figured out. I was a bit put off, then I remembered that this particular forum likely has a lot of codies. Heck, just look at the number of posts compared to the other forums. So I decided to lighten up. It also made me look at myself and contemplate a bit more before i hit the post quick reply button. I'm trying to practice restraint with RAH, but boy, is it a hard habit to break!

We are all works in progress. Thanks for the reminder.

honoryourself

I enjoyed reading this for a second time. Slipped back into trying to change someone with my 'reasoning' today.. feeling crummy about it, decided to stop trying to change them and stop feeling crummy now. No good in any of it!
THANKS!

Redux

Pelican I am so much like that too! I am a lawyer and that's what I've been trained to do - when writing a brief or an argument, you put forth all plausible arguments.

I think when you're talking to an alcoholic, that tactic is useless because there is no reasoning with them. But when you're talking to someone reasonably together, maybe one thing out of what you post will sink in with them.

I see what you mean about your words not changing people, their understanding of your words can change them though. You have to state your case and leave it alone so they make their own decisions.

SecretLife

Thanks for starting this. I am not a new codie, but rather new at trying to change it. Some days I think I've pretty well got it all figured out. When in reality, it's going to be a lifetime of conscious effort for me.

Learning to use the skills I'm trying to gain, is going to be a hard thing. I'll have to STOP, THINK, and REMEMBER to put these skills to use in EVERY situation.

And stop feeling guilty for having my OWN needs, and letting them be known. My boundaries will be tough for me to get going on the right track, so I can have more peace of my very own....

12stepnchick

What a GREAT thread and just what I needed to hear today! Thank you all sooooo very much

iloveme

I think in the end if you are okay with the situation you can sit well with silence, but when something about their issue magnifies your own it may be a challenge. I always think to myself, "why am I concerned" "just mind my own business" " have I walkd in theses shoes" blh blh blh. The reality here is it is about us, really..... in that WE NEED TO BE HEARD.

Acceptance is huge here. Being okay with things that WE HAVE NO CONTROL over are not..

Just my humble opinion...


Soberiety allows me to chose what matters... yeah not sooo much..

SecretLife

I was just beginning to trust my A's recovery efforts, when he admitted to me that he had had a rough time with it the whole day. Thinking of "old ways" for himself, he called his sponser, went to a meeting, yet still was wrestling with his sobriety all day... couldn't even get to sleep.

We talked last night, yet I remembered this thread. I'm going to keep in mind that ultimately the decision to use again is something I can not talk him out of. Neither can his sponser. But I can listen when he's struggling.

He never said a word to me till he could not sleep late last night.
It has me worried, but not feeling responsible to keep his promise to himself to stay sober. I'm glad I'm working my program, for it has taught me that much. And I apreciate it!

Thanks for the thread!
Kim

Jadmack25

Oh dear!!!! I must plead guilty to sometimes thinking I should do another post, as I may just have a comment, that "speaks" to the person I am answering.

Quite often, I only post my reply to a thread, and don't post again, as I figure I have said all I need, and now just leave it be.

Mind you, having plenty of time to read threads, can cause me to go overboard sometimes......don't mean to.....just happens.

God bless

kittykitty

I'm guilty of it as well, i find myself still saying things to people and thinking i'm getting a message across, even though I'm not. When I'm most suseptable to making these bad choices is when I'm hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. Thats when i slip right back into my "i know everything" mode. So much work to do....