rmm

My husband is still not drinking, but he's not going to AA or in any way dealing with his alcohol abuse (which he doesn't see as alcoholism). We have been seeing a counselor together for a few weeks who he saw alone for a few months prior. This past week she was grilling me (I really dislike her fyi and she has said straight out that she is not knowledgeable about alcoholism/addiction) about why it is if I'm wondering about how my husband is doing/what he's thinking/how he feels/if he's tempted to drink, why it is I don't just ask him. I tried explaining to her that it seemed to me that it should not be up to me to constantly check in with him and try to force his hand into thinking about his issues/getting help. She went around and around with me on this and ended up saying that I was being passive aggressive and that if I was worried/concerned about his actions or lack of actions I should be telling him that. I don't see it this way. I think that as hard as it is for me to say nothing, that's best because that way he's not going to AA or seeking out help "for me" which is how he functions. I feel like the only way his not drinking and eventual (hopefully) getting help for his drinking is going to be really useful is when he decides to do it for himself. My badgering him or even making gentle suggestions seems to me not to be a good idea. In the meantime however it is killing me to say nothing because it is all I am thinking about. I wonder constantly if he's still drinking secretly, I wonder what he's thinking, I desperately wish he'd talk to me about something besides the weather and surface stuff but I don't think it's a good idea for me to fall back into the pattern of playing 20 questions and constantly trying to drag info out of him.

What do you all think? If I'm off and this counselor is right and it's fine and good for me to ask him about all of this, please tell me, but the sense I get is that he needs to take some of these steps on his own first. The counselor's take is that even if I ALWAYS, 100% of the time am the one who asks how things are and he never ever offers info, that's fine. Like I said, I really am not liking her and am not sure she knows what the hell she's talking about. Then again maybe I'm the one who's totally off. Years of being told by my husband that I'm imagining things, overreacting, ridiculous etc... has left me with no faith in my instincts.

LaTeeDa

If I were you, I would find a new counselor, ASAP. You cannot really expect to get anything productive from someone you "don't like at all."

L

rmm

I went at my husband's request last week for the first time. He thought it would be him talking to her about his drinking/family issues (his growing up family) and I'd listen and observe and she had in her mind that it would be marriage counseling and said quite clearly that she didn't think our marital issues were related to his drinking. I don't want to start a huge fight by telling him that this woman who he is comfortable seeing seems useless to me, but I guess I should because in my estimation, what she's doing is validating his thought process that his drinking isn't problematic at all and that now that he's stopped actively drinking, the root of every other problem is me.

LaTeeDa

If he is comfortable seeing her and feels she is helping him, it is not your place to tell him anything.

That is why I say finding a counselor of your own, who you are comfortable seeing, who can help YOU, would probably be best. For you.

Did I mention--YOU?

L

rmm

So even if I think that she's causing more harm than good (she's making it okay for him to put blame everywhere else for his drinking) I should say nothing? That seems so un-familiar to me but if that's the "healthy" way to deal with him right now then I guess that's what I have to do. I just think that's going to be one way, fast track ticket to my leaving. The last thing he needs right now is someone to give him more excuses for his drinking and I'm not convinced he sees that that's what is happening. I guess I'm trying to be in control and I can't be huh? You're right- time to focus on me.

LaTeeDa

HoopNinja

rmm I went through a similar situation. AH went to someone who told him he had impulse control problems not alcohol and drug addiction problems. He told AH that he is too easily swayed by peer pressure. I was floored--the man was 40 years old, not 14. When he did go to treatment they flat out told him the other therapist was clueless and should not be counseling people about alcohol and drug addiction. But, AH still likes to return to what that original therapist told him. Makes him feel much more comfortable.

He is going to a therapist now too. I have no idea if he is telling the truth--but it does seem a senseless waste of money to go somewhere to get help and lie--which I know he is because if he is telling me he is not drinking he is probably telling the therapist that too. A few years ago I would have wanted to call the therapist and say--he, do you know he's pulling the wool over your eyes. But their relationship is just that and I butt out.

You are right--badgering him will do you no good.

I agree--go see your own counselor and do what you need to do for you. Also, go to AlAnon. It has helped me. I don't go as often as I should but when I do go it helps me not question myself so much.

Ago

I agree with LTD to find another therapist that YOU trust

I will however, point out that the one thing therapists and sponsors do is:
Get used to that if you really want to get into recovery, searching and fearless aren't idle words if you decide to go into recovery.

The focus will be on you, but this therapist will get nowhere with you unless she earns your trust, I am not saying this therapist is "wrong" or even "right", I do think she is a bit "unskilled" as she has alienated you so rapidly and it may behoove you to find your own therapist that will build some trust with you before she starts in the deep work and you don't feel "ambushed" and "ganged up on".

I suspect that this next quote is not exactly what was said in your session, I suspect she was just trying to get you to see that a relationship has, in fact two parts, as in It takes two to Tango, and I suspect she was just trying to get you to see "your part" albeit she moved a bit fast IMO:

But I know it can feel that way when you get "ambushed" and feel "ganged up on", which is why I suggest finding a therapist WITH experience with codependency, alcoholism etc that YOU feel comfortable with.

I actually have a TON of experience with this dynamic, both with myself and sponsees, nothing worse then going to a therapy session expecting to hear about how "someone else" is "the problem", that he is the sick one that REALLY needs "help", not you, and suddenly the therapist pulls out the big blinding searchlight of "The mirror of your soul" and exposes your every issue to scrutiny.

It's pretty uncomfortable.

Doesn't going to a therapist qualify with dealing with his Alcohol Abuse?

I actually went to both AA and therapy, but how does that not fit your criteria for "dealing with his alcohol abuse"?

EnoughisEnough7

From personal experience, going to a counselor not trained in addiction was a huge mistake and in the end created far more problems and resentments. Since my husband initiated the contact, I don't think the counselor wanted to offend him as she felt he would walk out and she would lose a paying client. Please remember they are getting paid for that time - and discourages them from doing the right thing - sending you to a counselor with addiction training.

The last thing an alcoholic needs is someone else giving them "excuses" to drink - such as 'bad' childhood ...etc. Alcoholics come up with enough excuses on their own without someone feeding them more. Most people have some type of trauma in their lives and they don't end up alcoholics or addicts because of it. My background growing up was much, much more challenging and traumatic than my husband's ... his background was reasonably normal, but he was the one that became an alcoholic after years of abusing alcohol. He would find every excuse under the sun to drink... not enough sleep, someone at work being uncooperative ...same kind of problems everyone else had, but to him these issues just gave him another excuse to drink.

My AH swore he wasn't drinking when he went to a marriage counselor ... and I believe that he just wanted someone else to blame (me) for his problems once again - to divert attention from his alcohol issues. It turned out he was secretly drinking, and wasting our time and money when what he needed to do was stop finding excuses to drink and face his addiction. It doesn't seem like your counselor is asking her client, your husband, to look closer at his own issues-and is jumping on his band wagon trying to find someone else to blame to his self destructive behavior. Someone actively addicted should be working on their addiction issues with someone that can see through the manipulation that is classic with alcohol abuse ... and focus on the kind of issues known to make long term improvement in their quality of life.

Someone in a relationship with an alcoholic has enough challenges without having an untrained counselor misdirecting blame and giving the alcoholic more false excuses to justify drinking.

rmm

Ago- I just feel like I need to clarify a few things... No, I don't think that seeing this therapist constitutes dealing with his Alcohol abuse because as far as I can tell she is saying that his drinking, lying, manipulating etc... is not at all related to his drinking and seems (like him) to want to find another reason to explain why he was drinking. He thinks that now that he has stopped actively drinking, there are no issues left to discuss related to his drinking and she is fully supporting that. So, going to talk to someone who tells you what you want to hear and allows you not to look at reality is not dealing with the problem in my book.

I am aware of the fact that it is a counselor's job to ask tough questions-- however, having the past 2 sessions turn into "what have you done to cause your husband to drink as a coping mechanism" is not helpful, healthy or professional in my estimation.

I take full responsibility for my contributions to the strains in our marriage but quite honestly those strains have come as a result of the drinking. I am irritable and angry because of the lies, the deceit etc... I think that it would do my husband a world of good to see someone trained in alcohol addiction and who can help him deal with the issues behind the drinking.

rmm

Thank you Enough is Enough 7-- It helps to know I'm not crazy for thinking that this dynamic with this therapist seems odd. It is a waste of everyone's times in my book to sit and look for other places to put the "blame" for the alcoholism. And I couldn't agree more about the manipulation of facts that seems to be a theme with alcoholics.

Ago

I absolutely understand the "irritable and angry" part of trying to deal with someone in active denial, and I understand the frustration in trying to get them to see things "your way", I have more experience with that then I care to admit to.

Rather then focus on what kind of therapist your husband needs, could you look to what kind of therapist serves YOU best? One that could help YOU?

If she is in fact co-signing his BS he will hang on to her as a therapist like a pit bull hangs on to a tire swing in a trailer park.

However, as I stated previously, I have no opinion on what this therapist is saying, as I am not there to actually hear it, so I don't KNOW if what she is saying is right or wrong, what I was saying is it's uncomfortable to get "ambushed" and "ganged up on" like it sounds happened to you, and that it may behoove you to find a therapist of your own to help YOU.

Not drinking and going to therapy actually IS dealing with his "alcohol abuse", it may or may not be "enough" for him, but it certainly doesn't seem to be enough for you, how can you address that?
I don't quite follow this line of thought, are you saying she doesn't view the "satellite behaviors" that accompanied his drinking aren't related to his drinking? Have these behaviors continued after he has stopped?

Thing is, the difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic quite often is if a heavy drinker quits drinking their problems go away, if an alcoholic quits drinking their problems get really bad. Time will tell. You have diagnosed him as an alcoholic. Does any one else share this diagnosis? It can be tricky.

keithj

Hmmm.

This kind of logic doesn't work for the codie any better than it works for the alkie.

cassandra2

When I first went to see my therapist she asked if I would be bringing in my SO for couples counseling. I asked if she thought that was a good idea and she said it could be beneficial to both of us BUT it would have to be BEFORE her and I had too many visits together under our belt. My therapist felt that my SO would feel like WE were ganging up on him and that she would be happy to recommend someone else that we could both see together from the getgo.

Secondly, if the counselor does not have experience with addiction then it would be hard for her to understand the hampster wheel we as codies get on when trying to "discuss" the addiction with our SO's. You go round and round about the problem but you never get anywhere because they dont see logic or reason. So the conversations become pointless. THAT IS WHY WE STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

I think its far better that each SO go to their OWN therapist. Codies contribute ALOT more to the situation then some of us are willing to admit. Trying to control another person brings alot of damage into a relationship. I freely admit that that is exactly what I was doing to my SO. Trying to make him be. Trying to make him see. Trying to prevent worse things from happening. Trying to reason with him. Etc.....Those things done in the extreme case of codependence can help to destroy a relationship. That is my ownership and where I take responsibility is getting help for MYSELF. Trying to fix me. Trying to make me see that I cannot nor do I have the right to control another.

I didnt agree with some of the things that my SO's rehab group were telling him but that is my OPINION. I am not the expert. I am NOT an addict. So I kept those things to myself and allowed the chips to fall where they may.

If your husband is gonna go along with the counselor and say that drinking is not a problem for him then thats on HIM. That is also a sign that he just isnt done yet.......