KittyTET

I have been posting all week trying to convince people that the best thing they can do for themselves is to keep educating yourself about alcoholism in order to fully grasp the concept that it is a disease, not a choice. Just yesterday, in a thread about leaving alcoholic husbands I posted a reply that not all alcoholics behave the same and that I have absolutely no intention of leaving my husband. This morning, however, my car is loaded down with a suitcase full of clothes and shoes, my electronic piano, my cameras, and my computer's hard drive.

My husband had 34 days yesterday. His friends from rehab all live in Columbus, which is almost three hours away. He has spent a lot of time driving out there to see them since he got out of rehab because he said they are the only people he can really relate to right now. I got it, even though it was causing me to deal with a lot of unwanted feelings of jealousy and insecurity. I knew how much having those people in his life was helping him get through the hard times of early recovery, though, so I was trying to deal with my feelings myself and not make him feel guilty about wanting to spend so much time with them.

So, when he told me on Sunday that he was going back to Columbus to help one of his rehab friends, Kerri, move out of her boyfriend's house (her bf still uses drugs), I was okay with it. He and some of the other people from his new support group spent all day helping her move, then decided to grab some dinner in a restaurant at the end of the day. It was during dinner that Kerri suddenly slid underneath the table, curled into a ball and started yelling, "Please don't let me use again!" (Her drug of choice was crack and I've heard that episodes like this are not uncommon for crack addicts in recovery.) My AH said Kerri had to be physically removed from the restaurant. They then took her back to her new apartment and were trying to calm her down. My AH had planned to drive back home yesterday evening, but he didn't feel comfortable leaving Kerri. He said he called two other guys from their group and if they came he would leave. That was at 8:30 PM.

I didn't hear from him the rest of the night, so I just assumed things were still intense over there and that he wasn't able to leave. When I was ready for bed around 11:00 PM, I decided to call just to say goodnight, but his phone was turned off. A few minutes later, though, he called and I could tell instantly that he had been drinking.

I have no idea what happened between 8:30 PM and 11:00 PM that lead to his drinking. When I asked that very question, he basically just told me that it was the most difficult day of his life and he just couldn't fight it anymore. I mean, I do understand enough about the disease to know that this is how it works. The disease will constantly try to convince the alcoholic that under THIS circumstance, it is okay to drink. The disease also constantly tells the alcoholic that NOW they've got their drinking under control. And while I fully understand that his defenses were down last night, I just cannot stop being angry with him for believing that kind of ******** thinking. Not only that, but as we were talking on the phone he actually said, "But, you will be happy to know that I didn't drink HALF as much as I usually did...." I cut him off by saying, "Stop trying to rationalize this. It doesn't matter how MUCH you just drank." This, of course, almost caused a fight between us because he immediately got defensive and started telling me that I had NO IDEA what I was talking about right now, so I just told him we'd talk about it in the morning and hung up.

I've been surprisingly numb since last night. I still haven't even cried, and I'm SHOCKED that I was able to sleep at all, but I did. When I got up this morning, something just told me to pack, so I did. I'm not even sure if I really want to leave. I have absolutely no plans about where I will go or what I will do. Maybe part of me just wants him to realize that I'm seriously at my wit's end? Or maybe I really do feel like it's time for me to separate myself? I honestly have no idea what to think or feel at this moment.

Oh, and I just got off the phone with him a minute ago. He said he hasn't slept and has been up all night dealing with the other people in his group who are also still there at the apartment. He makes it sound like he's only struggling with the stress of dealing with THEM, though. He hasn't really said much about his own drinking last night, other than to say that he's angry about it. I kept telling him to just come home because that is a very poisonous environment right now, but he keeps SWEARING that he NEEDS to be there and that it's not a poisonous environment. In fact, he said it is "far from it."

Again, I don't know what to think. Right now I feel like saying, "It's them or me." I just don't see how this supposed "support" group can still be considered supportive when he sat and drank with two of the other alcoholics in the group last night and apparently right now there is some guy in the bathroom taking his fifth cold shower while some other girl is "strung out" in the next room. I can barely handle my own husband's alcoholism, let alone knowing he's hanging around a bunch of strung out crack addicts now. And he said himself last night that it was being in that situation that "caused" him to drink, so A) how can he expect me to be okay with him continuing to hang out with these people, and B) why the hell would we want to in the first place??!?!?

Sorry for the long post. I'm just terribly confused.

bookwyrm

:ghug3

Take a deep breath sweetie - you sound so upset. Its a kicker - but you need to calm down. Is this what you really want? Cos if you leave, you have to consider that it will be for good. Ultimatums won't work. You cannot control him (and the other 2 C's). What you can do is decide what is best for YOU. From your posts, it seems that your husband has made it clear that, for now anyway, the needs of his 'support' group outweigh your needs. Can you live with that? Can you live with the possibility of relapse (if he sobers up again that is)? What sort of life do YOU need to live that will make YOU happy, based on how you both are right now? It is interesting that your first reaction was to pack up and leave. You might want to consider that.

I really feel for you and wish I could give you an actual hug - a virtual one will just have to do.



Take care.

KittyTET

Thank you so much, bookwyrm, for that very kind reply. You are right, I forgot that by giving him the "them or me" ultimatum I am trying to control him and I can't do that.

As far your question, "Is this what you really want?" The answer is 100% NO!!! I do not want to leave!!!! I wanted to grow old with my husband. How freaking ironic is it that during our first 15 years when he was drinking our relationship was great? Only NOW that he's been through rehab have we begun to have problems!

However, in stepping back for a second, I realize that I do not want my feelings and needs to always come last for him. I do not always want to be told to just "go with the flow" and "chill out". Also, after his first relapse last month I'd said that I honestly did not think I could go through that again, and now here I am. Again, not that I BLAME him for the relapse. I actually feel sorry for him. However, his attitude on the phone this morning just turned me off in a big way. He's still focusing on those other people and not what HE did wrong last night. Furthermore, he was "warning" me not to be mad at him, telling me he was thinking "some really crazy thoughts right now", which I know is his way of telling me he's feeling suicidal. He has threatened suicide in the past before and while I do take it seriously, I also realize how ****** it is for him to hang something like that over my head. It is just his way of manipulating me into not giving him a hard time over something wrong that he's done.

Oh, wow. This is truly the first time I've taken an inventory on all the things I DON'T want to live with. Up until now, all I ever thought about was that I DO want to stay married because I loved our relationship up until a few months ago when this mess got started. But, as they say, love is blind. Thanks, again, for helping me open my eyes a little wider today.

MissFixit

Kitty,

So sorry for your situation. You have been very optimistic about his recovery and I imagine that his dishonesty must be hurtful. It is NO reflection on you though. Please remember that. His actions (even the selfish ones) are about HIM not you.

Active alcoholics are known for lying. He has proven to you that he has lied to you and is drinking again.

One thing that has stuck out in your posts is something that I did for years and at times upon relfection, still do, which is to expect an active alcoholic to make rational choices. This includes being honest with me and it comes down to the control issue. You cannot control him. You cannot make him not drink, tell the truth, be faithful, put your needs first or act in a consistent fashion. No amount of talking with him or stating your case will "make" him see the light. Threats and ultimatums do not work either in my experience...I tried many times.

There is an excellent pamphlet from al anon that describes the various relationships with an A. Provoker was one and there are 3 or 4 others. Personally, I took on each role dozens of times by trying to modify his behavior. It didn't work. At the time I never thought about what I was doing. I honestly thought that I was the good girlfriend helping him. It deflated my sense of self worth and esteem each time he drank or lied as I felt that I failed and I wasn't good enough or doing enough or supportive enough to make him put me first. That was not the case.

You have been married for 15 years. This problem was identified recently and you write that you are trying to figure out how to deal with it and him. As was stated in another post, he is the only one who can deal with himself, his choices, etc...in this.

SR, al anon and therapy helped me to deal with MYSELF. I still allow myself to get sucked into drama when I hear about it and the good folks here help me to see that.

Given your current situation, what can you do to make yourself feel better?

Hugs,

Miss

naive

hi kitty-

i'll second bookwyrm's counsel: BREATHE! deep inhale, slow exhale, until you calm and center yourself.

it's very tempting to spring into action, but best to calm yourself and make your move after reflection.

it is good that you are seeking input from here. there is a lot of good people with much experience here. perhaps wait a wee bit and get some perspective on this situation.

that said, it might not be a bad idea to separate yourself from this situation, perhaps by going and staying with a trusted friend for a few nights and take some time to figure out what it is that you want.

naive

GiveLove

Kitty,

I still have my journal from the first days where I'd first started realizing what I wasn't willing to accept any more. In my case, it was drinking, drugging, suicide threats, infidelity covered up by careful lies, and always putting other people and things' needs before my own. There are many pages of me putting that down on paper for the first time. I was holed up in a small hotel with my dog and my laptop, eating take-out Chinese, and I had packed up the essentials in my car just like you. And our situations are remarkably similar. I too thought I would grow old with that man. I too loved the early years of our relationship when feelings were smoothed by booze. I too wanted to believe what I was being told.

I can't tell you what to do, but I CAN tell you that those painful days of realization were ultimately responsible for the person I am now: joyful, stable, self-protective, and in control of my life and happiness. Let yourself feel these feelings. Spill them out here if it helps...we'll be your journal

Big hugs this morning Breathe deeply and consider giving yourself some time and space away from this situation to get it all sorted out in your mind. This is your life you're talking about....with him or without him, you've got a few decades left here on this planet to fill with joys. It's worth giving yourself some breathing room to settle down and make a plan.

I'm sorry this is happening, but I can only think it's happening for a reason.

sojourner

Reminds me of when my then husband was newly out of rehab and starting to go to 12-Step meetings. He very quickly decided he had been cured enough to start a table for Adult Children of Alcoholics. He co-chaired this table with a woman also in recovery. Well, they got to be friends and one day the then-husband told me he was going to help her move because her boyfriend (still using) couldn't help her for some reason. So he takes our only car (which i had maintained during his using days), leaves me with the two babies, takes our older son (probably age 4), and leaves for the day. When i asked him her name and where he was going to be, he told me he could not divulge that information because of the anonymity of the 12-step program. Well, i'd sat at too many tables for too many years to buy into that. When he got home that evening, i sat him down and told him that what he had done was disrespectful to the marriage and that if that happened again it would be the end of our relationship. The marriage did eventually end because of that kind of disrespect. Funny thing was some months later I was sitting at an Alanon table and one of the gals started telling her story - and from that i realized this was the woman my then-husband had helped move. And i had sat at enough tables with her in the past to know that she was really messed up in her relationship life - had a history of being in relationship with men who were not "available" (married, using drugs, etc.).

After the shock of this, you'll find your way. May i suggest "Love Must be Tough" by James Dobson. It seems like you're struggling with where to put up boundaries because of your husband being in recovery - you want to give him a lot of slack because of that (oh, poor, poor husband, he's trying so hard) and yet you're being victimized by that... am i on the right track with that?

Still Waters

That group sounds like a train wreck in motion. Nothing like a room full of "King Babies" all trying to keep the attention on themselves.

My AH was "the fixer" in rehab and afterwards. He had all the answers and needed to "be there" for the other guys who, of course, weren't as smart or as strong as my AH.

Kitty - how about focusing on you while he's busy focusing on him? You can't control the direction his focus takes, but you can control yours.

KittyTET

Again, THANK YOU MissFixIt and naive. First of all, you are right. I need to calm down and REALLY think about whether or not I really want to leave. I need to calm down. I have always been a reactionary and tend to jump off the deep end before taking the time to even look to see if there is water in the pool.

I was thinking of writing my husband a letter. Not really for him, though, but for me. I thought I might write to him as though it were my "good-bye" letter and tell him all the reasons why I feel like I simply HAVE to leave. I may find that as I write this letter I'm not really able to come up with enough reasons to justify leaving, or maybe I will think of so many reasons that I will wonder why I didn't consider leaving sooner? Either way, at least it will help me clear my head a little. I think. I guess it's worth a try. Here goes:

"I'm leaving because I have finally come to the realization that I have been giving more than I have been receiving in this relationship for a very, very long time. This realization was brought on by recent events, but my overall decision is based upon the way I have been feeling and the way I have been treated throughout most of our relationship.

Most recently, you have decided you need to be around your new friends from rehab right now more than you need to be around me. I have accepted that decision and I was even thankful that you had a supportive group of people you could turn to when you needed help, but I have also been very open and honest with you about the feelings I have developed as a result. I hate feeling so left out of your life. It makes me feel useless, ignored and unwanted whenever you leave for Columbus at the drop of a hat and make a point to tell me that I will probably never fit in. As a result, I am left feeling jealous, resentful, guilty, ashamed, insecure and lonely. These awful feelings torment me 24 hours a day. Rather than acknowledge my feelings, though, let alone make any efforts to comfort me, you become angry and threatening whenever I try to talk about it. I am left feeling like my needs have just been put on hold while you decide whether or not there is even a place for me in your life anymore. Furthermore, I'm expected to be okay with this 'hold status' or else be accused of not being supportive, patient, or understanding.

I think I have proven over our 15-year relationship that I am VERY patient, supportive, and understanding, so I do not think it is fair to 'blackmail' my feelings this way. I have finally admitted to myself that it is not okay for you to expect me to just accept whatever hand it is that YOU deal to me. No matter what happens or what you do, I am supposed to just swallow my feelings and not react. I have reminded you many times in recent weeks that I am ALLOWED to have feelings and react to my emotions, but you continuously tell me to 'just chill out' or else I may cause you to relapse (again, emotional blackmail).

I no longer accept your stance that your feelings count more than mine and your constant reminder that what you are going through is so much worse than anything I could ever experience. You belittle my feelings and my emotional needs. You take me for granted. You overstep the boundaries of our marriage. You manipulate me. You are dishonest with me, as well as with yourself and others. You treat me like I'm your daughter rather than your wife, your partner, your EQUAL. These are all things that I no longer find acceptable, so I am choosing to cut them out of my life. In doing so, I am finally choosing to take care of MYSELF for once.

I want you to know that this is the hardest decision I have ever had to make because you are still the love of my life. I also want to be perfectly clear that I am NOT leaving because of your relapse. I DO believe you can overcome your alcoholism. I believe in you 100%. I have always supported and encouraged you and that hasn't changed one bit. As I mentioned above, I have made this decision because I am emotionally, physically, and spiritually exhausted from neglecting my own needs for far too long. I used to think that taking care of myself and putting my own needs first would just be selfish, but now I realize that not only is it okay, it is actually a necessity.

I am still here for you and I still love you with all my heart. I am not 'leaving you', I am leaving all of the negative things listed above. I am not mad at you and I do not blame you for anything. You are who you are and your decisions are yours to make. I just finally realized that, as I said before, no matter how much effort I put into this relationship MY needs are never fully fulfilled. So, now I need to work on myself for a while. I hope you can be as supportive and respectful of me in this decision as I have been with you. I also hope that you continue to work on your addiction recovery because I want that for you more than anything and I know you can do it. I truly do love you with all my heart."

KittyTET

I was writing that last post while GiveLove, sojourner, and Still Waters were writing your replies. I just wanted to thank you all, as well, for your insight. These replies have meant the world to me this morning.

TakingCharge999

Hi Kitty just offering some hugs :ghug3 and encouragement....

sandrawg

Honey, I'm sorry you're going through this.

You will drive yourself crazy, though, trying to be rational, when this is a disease that causes its victims to be COMPLETELY irrational.

So many times my head has spun from the irrational things my exabf did.

I think you need some time away from him, with no contact-just tell him you're taking space. You need to sort this out, without feeling like you gotta worry about him, and figure out what's best for you.

sandrawg

This is such a crucial point! We can't make decisions on how we HOPE things will be in the future-we have to accept the way things are.

So many times, I based my decision to stay with my ex on his potential. His potential to get clean...his potential to finally make me feel important...etc.

Can you live with the here and now? Is it what's best for YOU, not what's best for him.

You can't love others until you first love yourself--how can you love yourself in a given situation? This is what I'm asking myself from now on. Thanks for this!!

LaTeeDa

On another post you said you were considering finding a counselor. Maybe now is the time?

L

sandrawg

Good for you, for calling this for what it is -- emotional blackmail.

You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.

A friend of mine in AA, 2 yrs sober, said addicts will look for any excuse to use. Just like my exabf. It's July 4th?? Time to get drunk! He'd probably use Canadian Boxing Day as an excuse! The sun is up! Time to drink...see what I am saying??

The thing is, healthy people deal with the stress and conflict they feel from relationships in healthy ways, not destructive ways like drinking or using. If I got into a fight with my xBF, I would go work out. Or meditate. Or take a yoga class.

Nobody can CAUSE anyone to do anything. We make our own choices about how to react to a given situaton-there are always multiple paths to take. An active addict will use, regardless. That's one of the most insidious, horrible things about this disease, is that it makes the A place blame on people who love him, because he/she can't just admit he/she IS an addict, so they need an excuse. This makes the loved one feel ashamed, or guilty, or worthless, or makes them walk on eggshells in an attempt to MAKE the A stop using. So sad.

KittyTET

Thank you, sandradawg and LaTeeDa.

I have an update. My husband has called me twice today and he is still in Columbus. He keeps talking like he and this group of people are "working things out" and keeps trying to convince me that this is the best group of people in the world. He needs them and they need him. All that stuff. I'm not buying it, though.

The thing is, he is sounding upbeat and will say things like, "Talk to me. Talk to me about something nice and happy." I can't think of anything, of course, so then it turns into a mini-argument and we just get off the phone. So, now I'm starting to wonder if I should go ahead and tell him while he is there in Columbus that I probably won't be here when he returns home???? I just hate the idea of blindsiding him, especially when he's obviously trying to be in a good mood today. I also feel like I'm being deceitful now by not telling him what I have planned. What do you guys think?

sandrawg

Hon, I wouldn't make any decisions while you're still angry and upset.

The way your husband is behaving reminds me of people who are in cults.

The month or so after getting sober, or so I heard, can be a precarious, shaky time for people. It sounds to me like he's latched onto this group of people as his new addiction.

I wish I had more answers for you, but maybe going to a therapist who specializes in addiction issues? This is uncharted territory for me.

KittyTET

Oh yeah, forgot to mention earlier that I have an appointment to start seeing a therapist next week.

I hear what you are saying about not making decisions when I am angry and upset. The thing is, I thought my mind was made up and I was just asking you guys if I should tell him now or let him just find out when he gets home. However, I think I realize that I'm really just looking for a reason to call him so that hopefully I will be convinced NOT to leave.

LaTeeDa

Good for you on the therapist appointment. It was the best thing I ever did for myself.

About the leaving. Probably not a good idea to make a life-changing decision about your marriage while you are upset. On the other hand, going somewhere for a couple of days to clear your head and sort out your feelings could be just the ticket.

Check your motives. If you are doing it to try and control him or get a reaction from him, then it's probably not a good idea. If you need time away for yourself, to sort through your own thoughts, without his chaos, then maybe it's a good idea. Only you know what your motivations are.

L

sojourner

When you are ready to leave or stay, you won't ask anybody if you should. You'll just do it. You won't wonder if you should tell your husband what you are doing. You'll just do it. I agree you should sit tight until your emotions settle down. It does not sound like you are in any kind of danger so you have nothing to lose by staying put for a while.