maybe this is a rude thing to say...
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maybe this is a rude thing to say...
...I don't know, but I am tempted to tell everyone who posts up here who is in a romantic relationship with an alcoholic to just get out! get out! get out!
I read all these posts and it kills me, because it's simply insane trying to carry on a relationship with an addict/alcoholic. I'm only 2 days after my bf chose the bar over ME for the LAST time, and I already look back on all the crazy junk I put up with for the last 2 years and go, WHY would I subject myself to all of that? Do I hate myself?
I mean, there was NEw Years eve 2008, when the xabf had a Long Island iced tea-fueled temper tantrium, knocked over some chairs at an outdoor restaurant, and I had to talk TWO police out of arresting him, twice! I realize now I should've let him get busted!!
4-5 months back, he had too many whisky sours at the bar and tried to start a fight over something stupid. I got mad at him, so he broke my phone, and kicked his leg through a plate glass window that was low to the ground. That was probably the most traumatic night I've ever spent, because he was out of control, trying to grab my phone while I was driving, then when I pulled over, he smashed it on the ground.
I think people start adjusting what they consider to be normal and crazy when they're with an alcoholic. What they would have in their right mind recognized as INSANE and INTOLERABLE, they gradually start to look at as normal. Reason enough not to stay in these types of situations.
So, I'm sorry, but I might end up on everyone's post who's in a romantic rel'ship wtih an alcoholic just always say "GET OUT! LEAVE, LEAVE, LEAVE! Don't waste 2+ yrs of your life like I did."
I truly believe that until and unless someone gets sober, trying to have any semblance of a normal romantic rel'ship results in nothing but a merrygoround of pain and misery.
I read all these posts and it kills me, because it's simply insane trying to carry on a relationship with an addict/alcoholic. I'm only 2 days after my bf chose the bar over ME for the LAST time, and I already look back on all the crazy junk I put up with for the last 2 years and go, WHY would I subject myself to all of that? Do I hate myself?
I mean, there was NEw Years eve 2008, when the xabf had a Long Island iced tea-fueled temper tantrium, knocked over some chairs at an outdoor restaurant, and I had to talk TWO police out of arresting him, twice! I realize now I should've let him get busted!!
4-5 months back, he had too many whisky sours at the bar and tried to start a fight over something stupid. I got mad at him, so he broke my phone, and kicked his leg through a plate glass window that was low to the ground. That was probably the most traumatic night I've ever spent, because he was out of control, trying to grab my phone while I was driving, then when I pulled over, he smashed it on the ground.
I think people start adjusting what they consider to be normal and crazy when they're with an alcoholic. What they would have in their right mind recognized as INSANE and INTOLERABLE, they gradually start to look at as normal. Reason enough not to stay in these types of situations.
So, I'm sorry, but I might end up on everyone's post who's in a romantic rel'ship wtih an alcoholic just always say "GET OUT! LEAVE, LEAVE, LEAVE! Don't waste 2+ yrs of your life like I did."
I truly believe that until and unless someone gets sober, trying to have any semblance of a normal romantic rel'ship results in nothing but a merrygoround of pain and misery.
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If everyone's romantic relationships were like the one you just described with your exbf then I would probably agree with you. However, it's always important to keep an open mind.
In my case, I have been with my AH for fifteen years and, as unbelievable as this may sound, both he and I were unaware that his drinking had actually become a "problem" until he started having health problems at the end of last year. My husband and I would have a few drinks together while hanging out at home and, of course, on the weekends, but during those 15 years I never noticed an increase in the frequency of my husband's drinking or the amount that he drank. Furthermore, all of our friends seemed to have the same drinking habits as us and none of THEM had ever declared themselves an alcoholic. My husband never had violent, drunken episodes and never abused me physically or emotionally. Quite the contrary, in fact. We have always been best friends and he has always treated me like gold. What I DIDN'T take into consideration was the fact that my husband's grandfather and many of his uncles are alcoholics and that my AH had been a consistent drinker since he was in his early teens.
When my husband's doctor told him he was going to have to stop drinking in order to get well, we STILL did not realize that his drinking was actually the cause of his health issues. However, when my husband tried to follow the doctor's orders and stop drinking all together, he simply could not. That's when we realized that my AH has actually been a highly functioning alcoholic for all these years and it finally caught up with him.
Ironically, it wasn't until my husband went to rehab that we started having marital issues. I will admit that life after rehab has been extremely difficult for our relationship so far, but I am nowhere close to walking out that door. My husband is the love of my life.
I'm very sorry that your exabf treated you so badly and I don't blame you for having a sour opinion about relationships with alcoholics in general, but I just wanted to suggest that you say open minded to the fact that not all alcoholics behave the same way.
In my case, I have been with my AH for fifteen years and, as unbelievable as this may sound, both he and I were unaware that his drinking had actually become a "problem" until he started having health problems at the end of last year. My husband and I would have a few drinks together while hanging out at home and, of course, on the weekends, but during those 15 years I never noticed an increase in the frequency of my husband's drinking or the amount that he drank. Furthermore, all of our friends seemed to have the same drinking habits as us and none of THEM had ever declared themselves an alcoholic. My husband never had violent, drunken episodes and never abused me physically or emotionally. Quite the contrary, in fact. We have always been best friends and he has always treated me like gold. What I DIDN'T take into consideration was the fact that my husband's grandfather and many of his uncles are alcoholics and that my AH had been a consistent drinker since he was in his early teens.
When my husband's doctor told him he was going to have to stop drinking in order to get well, we STILL did not realize that his drinking was actually the cause of his health issues. However, when my husband tried to follow the doctor's orders and stop drinking all together, he simply could not. That's when we realized that my AH has actually been a highly functioning alcoholic for all these years and it finally caught up with him.
Ironically, it wasn't until my husband went to rehab that we started having marital issues. I will admit that life after rehab has been extremely difficult for our relationship so far, but I am nowhere close to walking out that door. My husband is the love of my life.
I'm very sorry that your exabf treated you so badly and I don't blame you for having a sour opinion about relationships with alcoholics in general, but I just wanted to suggest that you say open minded to the fact that not all alcoholics behave the same way.
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People come here with all different situations. Some are girlfriends who are abused, some are husbands who are confused, some are kids who don't know what to do about an alcoholic parent. And they are all in different stages of acceptance and denial -- and not all are open to - or able to - "just leave!!" But if you read around, you'll notice there is a lot of JUST GET OUT!! nonetheless, because that is the best advice that some can offer...we are compassionate people and we're trying to save others from the suffering we went through. When I first came here, it was the first thing out of my mouth LOL
So I understand 100% how you feel. But it's not always the best thing when you're dealing with very damaged, fearful people who are still in deep denial about how bad things are. And shouting "just get out" at some people just chases them away, makes this a hostile and uncomfortable place to come for help as they work through their own issues. So that's why it's not always the best idea.
Hang in there, sandrawg!
After reading your story, I'm so glad you "just got out." Sounds like your life will get better and better now.
So I understand 100% how you feel. But it's not always the best thing when you're dealing with very damaged, fearful people who are still in deep denial about how bad things are. And shouting "just get out" at some people just chases them away, makes this a hostile and uncomfortable place to come for help as they work through their own issues. So that's why it's not always the best idea.
Hang in there, sandrawg!
After reading your story, I'm so glad you "just got out." Sounds like your life will get better and better now.
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I would never suggest that anyone abandon their alcoholic parent or child. I'm referring mainly to romantic relationships-that's why i specified that. In those situations, we have more of a choice-we can choose to move on to a healthier situation and find someone who isn't addicted.
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This puzzles me. How could everything have been so seemingly normal with you and your husband, then all of a sudden out of the blue, the doctor says your husband has to quit drinking?
So...there were never any binge drinking episodes? Never any blackouts?
I mean, I know people who can drink a couple glasses of wine a day, and they're not alcoholics, and their doctor never tells them to stop drinking.
I'm sorry-I don't mean to seem like I don't believe you, but I find it hard to believe that the drinking didn't negatively affect you or your relationship in any other way than wham, all of a sudden, 15 yrs later, his doctor says he needs to stop for his health.
My xabf is a functional alcoholic as well. He hasn't lost his job. He hasn't been arrested (although, as I said, he could've been that one night). He hasn't gotten a DUI.
He doesn't drink alone...he doesn't sneak alcohol in to work...he binge drinks, though, probably on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, and he blacks out probably once a month.
He didn't abuse me and wasn't violent towards me other than the phone episode.
Still, his drinking has ruined our relationship.
I guess what i'm asking is...come on. Haven't there been any harmful effects of his drinking suggesting a potential problem well before this...that maybe you're repressing?
So...there were never any binge drinking episodes? Never any blackouts?
I mean, I know people who can drink a couple glasses of wine a day, and they're not alcoholics, and their doctor never tells them to stop drinking.
I'm sorry-I don't mean to seem like I don't believe you, but I find it hard to believe that the drinking didn't negatively affect you or your relationship in any other way than wham, all of a sudden, 15 yrs later, his doctor says he needs to stop for his health.
My xabf is a functional alcoholic as well. He hasn't lost his job. He hasn't been arrested (although, as I said, he could've been that one night). He hasn't gotten a DUI.
He doesn't drink alone...he doesn't sneak alcohol in to work...he binge drinks, though, probably on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, and he blacks out probably once a month.
He didn't abuse me and wasn't violent towards me other than the phone episode.
Still, his drinking has ruined our relationship.
I guess what i'm asking is...come on. Haven't there been any harmful effects of his drinking suggesting a potential problem well before this...that maybe you're repressing?
Originally Posted by KittyTET 
If everyone's romantic relationships were like the one you just described with your exbf then I would probably agree with you. However, it's always important to keep an open mind.
In my case, I have been with my AH for fifteen years and, as unbelievable as this may sound, both he and I were unaware that his drinking had actually become a "problem" until he started having health problems at the end of last year. My husband and I would have a few drinks together while hanging out at home and, of course, on the weekends, but during those 15 years I never noticed an increase in the frequency of my husband's drinking or the amount that he drank. Furthermore, all of our friends seemed to have the same drinking habits as us and none of THEM had ever declared themselves an alcoholic. My husband never had violent, drunken episodes and never abused me physically or emotionally. Quite the contrary, in fact. We have always been best friends and he has always treated me like gold. What I DIDN'T take into consideration was the fact that my husband's grandfather and many of his uncles are alcoholics and that my AH had been a consistent drinker since he was in his early teens.
When my husband's doctor told him he was going to have to stop drinking in order to get well, we STILL did not realize that his drinking was actually the cause of his health issues. However, when my husband tried to follow the doctor's orders and stop drinking all together, he simply could not. That's when we realized that my AH has actually been a highly functioning alcoholic for all these years and it finally caught up with him.
Ironically, it wasn't until my husband went to rehab that we started having marital issues. I will admit that life after rehab has been extremely difficult for our relationship so far, but I am nowhere close to walking out that door. My husband is the love of my life.
I'm very sorry that your exabf treated you so badly and I don't blame you for having a sour opinion about relationships with alcoholics in general, but I just wanted to suggest that you say open minded to the fact that not all alcoholics behave the same way.
In my case, I have been with my AH for fifteen years and, as unbelievable as this may sound, both he and I were unaware that his drinking had actually become a "problem" until he started having health problems at the end of last year. My husband and I would have a few drinks together while hanging out at home and, of course, on the weekends, but during those 15 years I never noticed an increase in the frequency of my husband's drinking or the amount that he drank. Furthermore, all of our friends seemed to have the same drinking habits as us and none of THEM had ever declared themselves an alcoholic. My husband never had violent, drunken episodes and never abused me physically or emotionally. Quite the contrary, in fact. We have always been best friends and he has always treated me like gold. What I DIDN'T take into consideration was the fact that my husband's grandfather and many of his uncles are alcoholics and that my AH had been a consistent drinker since he was in his early teens.
When my husband's doctor told him he was going to have to stop drinking in order to get well, we STILL did not realize that his drinking was actually the cause of his health issues. However, when my husband tried to follow the doctor's orders and stop drinking all together, he simply could not. That's when we realized that my AH has actually been a highly functioning alcoholic for all these years and it finally caught up with him.
Ironically, it wasn't until my husband went to rehab that we started having marital issues. I will admit that life after rehab has been extremely difficult for our relationship so far, but I am nowhere close to walking out that door. My husband is the love of my life.
I'm very sorry that your exabf treated you so badly and I don't blame you for having a sour opinion about relationships with alcoholics in general, but I just wanted to suggest that you say open minded to the fact that not all alcoholics behave the same way.
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Originally Posted by sandrawg
I would never suggest that anyone abandon their alcoholic parent or child. I'm referring mainly to romantic relationships-that's why i specified that. In those situations, we have more of a choice-we can choose to move on to a healthier situation and find someone who isn't addicted.
We have kids together. A divorce affects them. Whereas a parent of a child who is an adict can walk away without legal consequences. A spouse has legal consequences to stay married and damage to the kids either way. I'm on the hook for whatever my AH does.
This was just my thinking at that moment. I now would not wish this life on a parent or a spouse.
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You can't divorce your child, but a child who is 21, 22 is responsible for their actions and has no legal reprecusions. You can "kick" your child out like many have done in order for them to "hit rock bottom" and there are no legal proceedings. No custody situations to work. No paperwork. You can't do that when you are married. You are still "on the hook" for your spouses' actions as it relates to creditors. You can't just "kick someone out." You still have CCs, a house, ect. all in each others name.
My point was, it isn't so easy when you are married. While you might love someone as a child, a spouse, a parent....there is more legal "crap" to deal with it. I noticed in rehab that was a common theme when the parents (as there were only a handful of us who had spouses there) and it just isn't true. It isn't easier. Period.
My point was, it isn't so easy when you are married. While you might love someone as a child, a spouse, a parent....there is more legal "crap" to deal with it. I noticed in rehab that was a common theme when the parents (as there were only a handful of us who had spouses there) and it just isn't true. It isn't easier. Period.
Last edited by GiveLove; 07-06-2009 at 10:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by sandrawg
This puzzles me. How could everything have been so seemingly normal with you and your husband, then all of a sudden out of the blue, the doctor says your husband has to quit drinking?
So...there were never any binge drinking episodes? Never any blackouts?
I mean, I know people who can drink a couple glasses of wine a day, and they're not alcoholics, and their doctor never tells them to stop drinking.
I'm sorry-I don't mean to seem like I don't believe you, but I find it hard to believe that the drinking didn't negatively affect you or your relationship in any other way than wham, all of a sudden, 15 yrs later, his doctor says he needs to stop for his health....
I guess what i'm asking is...come on. Haven't there been any harmful effects of his drinking suggesting a potential problem well before this...that maybe you're repressing?
So...there were never any binge drinking episodes? Never any blackouts?
I mean, I know people who can drink a couple glasses of wine a day, and they're not alcoholics, and their doctor never tells them to stop drinking.
I'm sorry-I don't mean to seem like I don't believe you, but I find it hard to believe that the drinking didn't negatively affect you or your relationship in any other way than wham, all of a sudden, 15 yrs later, his doctor says he needs to stop for his health....
I guess what i'm asking is...come on. Haven't there been any harmful effects of his drinking suggesting a potential problem well before this...that maybe you're repressing?
I DO realize NOW that my husband was, in fact, a binge drinker. The thing was, as I mentioned earlier, he was a CONSISTENT binge drinker. The amount of alcohol he consumed never really increased so I never felt like he was "going downhill" or anything like that. What I failed to notice was that it wasn't exactly normal for a man to be able to drink 6-12 beers every single night. To be honest, though, I didn't even realize he was drinking that much because I never kept track of how many beers he consumed per night. Furthermore, he was so highly functional as an alcoholic that his behavior barely even changed while he was drinking. You could never tell if he'd had two beers or twelve. He didn't stumble around or slur his speech or have blackouts or anything like that. He never even seemed hungover in the mornings, which are all reasons why I honestly did not think that he had a "problem" until we learned that his drinking was affecting his health. That is the point at which I realized that I never really paid attention to HOW MUCH he drank each night.
As for the negative effects of his drinking on our relationship, of course we'd had our share of marital arguments after a night of drinking, but we would also have occasional arguments when we were both NOT drinking as well. I honestly cannot recall a single time when I wished he'd stop drinking because I was tired of the way it made him treat me or tired of the fights that it caused. Ironically, only now that he is in early recovery am I feeling like I am experiencing negative effects of his drinking because life after rehab has proven to be much more difficult than either of us had bargained for.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some of your questions. I know you said that it's not that you didn't believe me, but I would understand if you didn't believe my story. I still have a hard time believing it myself.
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Ohhh dear....
Whyamistaying......Is this even about your husbands alcoholism or is it about financial and otherwise survival?
You can kick your kid out to aid in them hitting bottom, but you can't kick your emotionally abusive home wrecking husband out, because of some credit cards, and a house.
Perhaps speaking to a lawyer may help with dispelling some of these financial and legal issues/myths. I'm not sure how much better you are protected financially by living with your husband than being apart.
Whyamistaying......Is this even about your husbands alcoholism or is it about financial and otherwise survival?
You can kick your kid out to aid in them hitting bottom, but you can't kick your emotionally abusive home wrecking husband out, because of some credit cards, and a house.
Perhaps speaking to a lawyer may help with dispelling some of these financial and legal issues/myths. I'm not sure how much better you are protected financially by living with your husband than being apart.
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Kitty, I get that totally.
I've come to understand that my ABF has a baseline, or rather tolerance, to alcohol and seems to function without hangover or without withdrawal symptoms when he lays off it for a spell.
I think this has led to my being in denial for so many years that he had a problem. He just didn't act drunk (in a way I would have expected) unless he really over did it at a party or drank too much one night and just passed out on the couch. When he did get agitated while intoxicated over something minor, it was so much easier to blame myself for starting a fight with him because he just didn't seem like the alcohol affected him all that much.
Fast forward a decade together and he had a few too many binges strung together making me wonder what the heck was going on with him. I started educating myself about alcholism and started healing my self esteem, and it all started to make sense. Now I look back on our many years together, and I see it with new eyes. I see how he his drinking has gone in phases and how I've just not really looked at him compared to a healthy male. He does stumble and slur his words. He does drink way too much on a daily basis.
They say it is a progressive disease and always gets worse. That progression doesn't have to happen in a day or week or month. It my ABF's case, it's been decades in the making. Up and down use over a lifetime that has finally taken hold to where he just can't shake it any longer and his inner turmoil over it has become apparent.
I get what you're saying.
Alice
I've come to understand that my ABF has a baseline, or rather tolerance, to alcohol and seems to function without hangover or without withdrawal symptoms when he lays off it for a spell.
I think this has led to my being in denial for so many years that he had a problem. He just didn't act drunk (in a way I would have expected) unless he really over did it at a party or drank too much one night and just passed out on the couch. When he did get agitated while intoxicated over something minor, it was so much easier to blame myself for starting a fight with him because he just didn't seem like the alcohol affected him all that much.
Fast forward a decade together and he had a few too many binges strung together making me wonder what the heck was going on with him. I started educating myself about alcholism and started healing my self esteem, and it all started to make sense. Now I look back on our many years together, and I see it with new eyes. I see how he his drinking has gone in phases and how I've just not really looked at him compared to a healthy male. He does stumble and slur his words. He does drink way too much on a daily basis.
They say it is a progressive disease and always gets worse. That progression doesn't have to happen in a day or week or month. It my ABF's case, it's been decades in the making. Up and down use over a lifetime that has finally taken hold to where he just can't shake it any longer and his inner turmoil over it has become apparent.
I get what you're saying.
Alice
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I know you're going through a rough time and don't feel ready to leave, but a lot of people have commented on your other threads about what a tough life it is for the kids of an alcoholic. I am not sure the trauma of divorce is worse than the trauma of staying in a totally toxic, dysfunctional environment.
Do you think your kids don't feel your anger? They don't see you pouring out your husband's beer?
I sent you a link to an article, "how to live (or not live) with an alcoholic." The kids end up thinking they caused it somehow, and try to be perfect to keep the peace...there's a whole host of deleterious effects on kids of living w/an alcoholic parent.
Just something to consider.
And i'm by no means trying to come off as judgmental. I know how hard divorce is. I've been through one.Luckily,there were no kids involved. But I survived it. I'm better off for it, cuz I found out after the divorce that my exh cheated on me. He's not who I thought he was.
You have inner reserves of strength you don't even realize,when you finally decide to do something for yourself for once.
Do you think your kids don't feel your anger? They don't see you pouring out your husband's beer?
I sent you a link to an article, "how to live (or not live) with an alcoholic." The kids end up thinking they caused it somehow, and try to be perfect to keep the peace...there's a whole host of deleterious effects on kids of living w/an alcoholic parent.
Just something to consider.
And i'm by no means trying to come off as judgmental. I know how hard divorce is. I've been through one.Luckily,there were no kids involved. But I survived it. I'm better off for it, cuz I found out after the divorce that my exh cheated on me. He's not who I thought he was.
You have inner reserves of strength you don't even realize,when you finally decide to do something for yourself for once.
Originally Posted by whyamistaying
I think people have a choice in either relationship. When my AH was in rehab, parents were there saying how easy it would be if this was their spouse who was an addict because they could just divorce them? And in my mind, a wife of an alcoholic, I kept thinking just the opposite.
We have kids together. A divorce affects them. Whereas a parent of a child who is an adict can walk away without legal consequences. A spouse has legal consequences to stay married and damage to the kids either way. I'm on the hook for whatever my AH does.
This was just my thinking at that moment. I now would not wish this life on a parent or a spouse.
We have kids together. A divorce affects them. Whereas a parent of a child who is an adict can walk away without legal consequences. A spouse has legal consequences to stay married and damage to the kids either way. I'm on the hook for whatever my AH does.
This was just my thinking at that moment. I now would not wish this life on a parent or a spouse.
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Sandra, with all due respect.. you are talking about a 'boyfriend' here.. This runs deeper than a lot of what you may or may not have experienced.
Every relationship is very different, as are the types and courses of alcoholism and other addictions.
I think there is a difference, when people are staying in relationships that are toxic and unchanging.. and when there's true committment and ACTION towards a better life.
My husband didn't quit on me.. but I quit drinking, and sought recovery. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea why he stayed. None. I asked my counselor that, as I got further and further from my last drink, I slowly realized the damage I had done outside of myself. The answer? "he still had hope". Yeah, I know, in most situations that's hogwash, but I'm damn glad he did. We are amazing today. He had hope AFTER I proved to him that I was changing. Not by quacking, not by empty promises and failed attempts. By doing it. By doing EVERYTHING I could to get sober.. and everything else I could to stay that way. So far a solid and forever 11 months of sobriety and treatment, and we've never been better.
This stuff isn't made from cookie cutters.. ya know?
Every relationship is very different, as are the types and courses of alcoholism and other addictions.
I think there is a difference, when people are staying in relationships that are toxic and unchanging.. and when there's true committment and ACTION towards a better life.
My husband didn't quit on me.. but I quit drinking, and sought recovery. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea why he stayed. None. I asked my counselor that, as I got further and further from my last drink, I slowly realized the damage I had done outside of myself. The answer? "he still had hope". Yeah, I know, in most situations that's hogwash, but I'm damn glad he did. We are amazing today. He had hope AFTER I proved to him that I was changing. Not by quacking, not by empty promises and failed attempts. By doing it. By doing EVERYTHING I could to get sober.. and everything else I could to stay that way. So far a solid and forever 11 months of sobriety and treatment, and we've never been better.
This stuff isn't made from cookie cutters.. ya know?
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Smacked,
It's so good to know that there is true love in this world. You did the work, and you are reaping the benefits. If all alcoholics were like you, these boards might not have to exist. Congrats on your 11 months sober and I hope you stay strong. You are very lucky to have your husband, and he is lucky to have someone who loves him enough to change.
It's so good to know that there is true love in this world. You did the work, and you are reaping the benefits. If all alcoholics were like you, these boards might not have to exist. Congrats on your 11 months sober and I hope you stay strong. You are very lucky to have your husband, and he is lucky to have someone who loves him enough to change.
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Originally Posted by luciddreamrgrl
You are very lucky to have your husband, and he is lucky to have someone who loves him enough to change.
And it seems to be a dangerous line of thinking for the non-alcoholic to get into. Because if the alcoholic doesn't recover, it must mean they didn't love us/we weren't good enough, etc.
L
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((( lucid )))
I don't think anyone's offended. Just that it might be a dangerous fantasy to believe, with LTD's caveat: if we believe that, then we must also believe the converse, that someone "didn't love us enough to change," which is just self-punishment.
I've observed that most of our community's recovering alcoholics didn't do it to gain some person's favor. They didn't do it for love, they did it to give themselves back their own lives. It's not necessarily about us, you know?
I don't think anyone's offended. Just that it might be a dangerous fantasy to believe, with LTD's caveat: if we believe that, then we must also believe the converse, that someone "didn't love us enough to change," which is just self-punishment.
I've observed that most of our community's recovering alcoholics didn't do it to gain some person's favor. They didn't do it for love, they did it to give themselves back their own lives. It's not necessarily about us, you know?
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Yes GiveLove, I understand. You have to remember I'm still new at this. I still am in the mindset that my XABF didn't love me enough to quit for me. I'm still learning that it is not true. That he has a true disease and doesn't want to quit for himself, so he certainly doesn't want to quit for me. I think Sandra may be in this mindset as well which is what lead her to post the original post. I can relate to her post, but I didn't want to offend anyone so I haven't commented on it. As someone who loves my XABF very very much still, it's dissapointing to think that he doesn't love me as much as I love him. You all have done a wonderful job at showing me that this just isn't true. I am learning to focus more on myself now. But it takes awhile. Ya know?
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