When they are sober, how do you pretend they didn't lie and hurt you?
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
When they are sober, how do you pretend they didn't lie and hurt you?
He is still drinking (hiding drinking) and I have decided to stay until September. I have decided that I will not be around if he drinks.
But how do you on a daily basis even interact after all he has done: the lying, courts, sneaking.... Do you pretend that didn't happen?
It's one thing to forgive, but if the other person isn't changing their actions or asking for forgiveness, how do you detach?
For e.g. he comes home from work and wants to tell me about his day? He wants me to care about him when he doesn't care about me (by his choice to drink).
But how do you on a daily basis even interact after all he has done: the lying, courts, sneaking.... Do you pretend that didn't happen?
It's one thing to forgive, but if the other person isn't changing their actions or asking for forgiveness, how do you detach?
For e.g. he comes home from work and wants to tell me about his day? He wants me to care about him when he doesn't care about me (by his choice to drink).
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Well whyamistaying, I am no one to give advice as I could not pretend I was not being constantly hurt. I just cannot do it. I betrayed myself many times but this time I could not pretend to be OK being a doormat totally cancelled out.
If you decided to stay until Sept, you have to accept this will be your life for 2 months at least.
If that is not acceptable, you need to take a different decision....
What I did before was just not being home, went to churches, a psychologist, anywhere but home. Many times I cried sitting on the sidewalk. Or called my mom in a telephone booth. Or walked to the park even if it was raining...
I hope you find in yourself you are worth more than constant walking on eggshells...
If you decided to stay until Sept, you have to accept this will be your life for 2 months at least.
If that is not acceptable, you need to take a different decision....
What I did before was just not being home, went to churches, a psychologist, anywhere but home. Many times I cried sitting on the sidewalk. Or called my mom in a telephone booth. Or walked to the park even if it was raining...
I hope you find in yourself you are worth more than constant walking on eggshells...
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,896
Well, if you're determined to stay until September, I guess you're just going to have to put up with it. Maybe sit there and smile sweetly while he tells you about his day and then avoid him the rest of the time. I'm not sure I'm much help in this area. Good luck.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
Just to clarify, I put September as my deadline to re-evaluate, not necessarily divorce.
I don't know when he drinks or how much or if every day. So I guess I am assuming that some times he is sober. He doesn't look drunk. But for sure he is still drinking. I just don't know to what extend. And it's not my job anymore to figure it out.
It would be much easier to forgive someone if they changed their behavior. To forgive someone for lying to your face when they will just turn around and do it the next day, that will be hard.
I don't know when he drinks or how much or if every day. So I guess I am assuming that some times he is sober. He doesn't look drunk. But for sure he is still drinking. I just don't know to what extend. And it's not my job anymore to figure it out.
It would be much easier to forgive someone if they changed their behavior. To forgive someone for lying to your face when they will just turn around and do it the next day, that will be hard.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I know the problem well. I am trying to get financially able to support myself away from my ABF, but it's going to be a while.
That does not mean that I walk around in some sort of limbo with no direction being miserable. I have good days and bad days like anyone else, and sometimes, my recovery takes a beating and I reach out for support.
I have had to let go of my resentments towards my ABF and the alcohol. I haven't forgotten what he's done. If I did, I probably wouldn't see the need to leave, but I'm not living in anger every day. I have firm boundaries that I hold myself to, and I stick to my own recovery.
For the most part, I live as ABF's roommate looking to move up to her own place. He gets pouty and whines about not being involved in my life, but then doesn't come home after work, so who's fault is that. So my sarcasm and scinisim is alive and kicking, so sue me.
The three C's are paramount to my recovery from my addiction to his addict drama.
I have developed three D's to keep my recovery work to myself.
I detach from his drinking.
I disengage from the blamstorming.
I drown out his quacking.
It's too bad he's an alcoholic really. When he puts in the effort, he's an ok guy. It's the fact that he has to make such an effort just to be ok that has me leaving.
I'm in the boat with you. Stay strong.
Alice
That does not mean that I walk around in some sort of limbo with no direction being miserable. I have good days and bad days like anyone else, and sometimes, my recovery takes a beating and I reach out for support.
I have had to let go of my resentments towards my ABF and the alcohol. I haven't forgotten what he's done. If I did, I probably wouldn't see the need to leave, but I'm not living in anger every day. I have firm boundaries that I hold myself to, and I stick to my own recovery.
For the most part, I live as ABF's roommate looking to move up to her own place. He gets pouty and whines about not being involved in my life, but then doesn't come home after work, so who's fault is that. So my sarcasm and scinisim is alive and kicking, so sue me.
The three C's are paramount to my recovery from my addiction to his addict drama.
I have developed three D's to keep my recovery work to myself.
I detach from his drinking.
I disengage from the blamstorming.
I drown out his quacking.
It's too bad he's an alcoholic really. When he puts in the effort, he's an ok guy. It's the fact that he has to make such an effort just to be ok that has me leaving.
I'm in the boat with you. Stay strong.
Alice
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Just to clarify, I put September as my deadline to re-evaluate, not necessarily divorce.
I don't know when he drinks or how much or if every day. So I guess I am assuming that some times he is sober. He doesn't look drunk. But for sure he is still drinking. I just don't know to what extend. And it's not my job anymore to figure it out.
It would be much easier to forgive someone if they changed their behavior. To forgive someone for lying to your face when they will just turn around and do it the next day, that will be hard.
You're right that you'll drive yourself crazy trying to find out how much he's drinking and when. It's the behavior that you are concerned about anyway, not his BAC.
The only thing that works for me is to not buy into the lies and to not engage in any big discussions in the first place.
I don't know when he drinks or how much or if every day. So I guess I am assuming that some times he is sober. He doesn't look drunk. But for sure he is still drinking. I just don't know to what extend. And it's not my job anymore to figure it out.
It would be much easier to forgive someone if they changed their behavior. To forgive someone for lying to your face when they will just turn around and do it the next day, that will be hard.
You're right that you'll drive yourself crazy trying to find out how much he's drinking and when. It's the behavior that you are concerned about anyway, not his BAC.
The only thing that works for me is to not buy into the lies and to not engage in any big discussions in the first place.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
got it, whyamistaying...
could you go out walking before he arrives from work... get out as much as possible so you do not have to interact? or say "i am not in the mood for talking"?
sorry i may not be very helpful.. for me acting lessons are only on Saturday afternoons.
i hope you find the answers you are looking for.. all the best!
could you go out walking before he arrives from work... get out as much as possible so you do not have to interact? or say "i am not in the mood for talking"?
sorry i may not be very helpful.. for me acting lessons are only on Saturday afternoons.
i hope you find the answers you are looking for.. all the best!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
First of all, I am new to this whole "alcoholism" thing. My AH and I have been together for fifteen years and neither of us even realized he was an alcoholic until he started having health problems and was told by his doctor to stop drinking. It was when he tried to stop drinking and realized he could not that we received our big wake up call. It's hard to believe that was just a few months ago....
Anyway, I've been doing a lot of researching online into the disease of alcoholism and I really think that would be helpful for you as well. I say that because of the last sentence you wrote, which was:
"He wants me to care about him when he doesn't care about me (by his choice to drink)."
If you fully understood that alcoholism is a disease and NOT a choice, you would not feel this way. I say this from experience. I started to feel exactly the way you do now, that if my husband really loved me he'd just stop drinking, but the more I read and educated myself about the disease the more I realized that I was wrong.
Please, please, PLEASE do yourself a favor and read this article:
[Note: I have tried posting the URL to this article, but I keep getting a message that I cannot share websites until after I have posted 15 messages! If you PM me, I will hopefully be able to give the URL to you that way.]
It was THIS article that helped me finally grasp the concept that getting sober is not simply mind over matter for an alcoholic. Their brains are physiologically PROGRAMMED to crave alcohol every minute of every day, especially under certain circumstances, or "triggers". Think of it this way: Let's say you take a train to work every day. The tracks are laid to travel from Point A to Point B, so every time you get on that train at Point A, you will end up at Point B. There are neurological pathways (explained in detail in that article) that are established in the alcoholic's brain just like this set of train tracks. Whenever he has a bad day (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). Whenever he has a really good day (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). Whenever he is completely bored (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). And so on....
Okay, so then let's say one day you get on that train at Point A and decide you don't WANT to go to Point B anymore. You say out loud, "Train, I don't want to go to Point B today. Take me to Point C instead." You can will that train all you want and wish with ALL YOUR HEART for that train to take you to Point C, but the tracks are laid to take you to Point B and that is where you will inevitably go. The only way you can get that train to take you to Point C instead of Point B is to physically move those train tracks, and that is what the addiction recovery process is all about. An alcoholic needs the tools taught to them during the rehabilitation process in order to "reprogram" their neurological pathways so that their triggers (Point A) do not always automatically make them want to drink (Point B).
This article only addresses the scientific explanation of why alcoholism an actual disease, though, which is really just the tip of the iceberg. I have read other articles that explain that an alcoholic deals with guilt and shame on a daily basis, but they rarely ever discuss it or wear those emotions on their sleeve. As a result, loved ones think that the A has no remorse for their actions and react by reminding them of all the reasons why they should feel guilty for drinking. This, in turn, just creates a huge trigger for the alcoholic because it compounds the shame and guilt that they were already feeling. It's a vicious cycle, really.
Anyway, I didn't mean to write such a long message. The point I am trying to get across is just that the best thing you can do for both yourself and your alcoholic loved one is to educate yourself as much as possible in order to gain a better understanding about what they are going through. You really do need to throw everything you THOUGHT you knew about alcoholism out the window and start from scratch. Once I did that, my own behaviors began to modify as a result and I feel like I do a MUCH better job of dealing with the situations brought about by my AH these days. I'm not perfect by ANY means and I still have a LONG way to go, but that is what has been the biggest help to me so far.
Good luck. I really hope it all works out for the best.
Anyway, I've been doing a lot of researching online into the disease of alcoholism and I really think that would be helpful for you as well. I say that because of the last sentence you wrote, which was:
"He wants me to care about him when he doesn't care about me (by his choice to drink)."
If you fully understood that alcoholism is a disease and NOT a choice, you would not feel this way. I say this from experience. I started to feel exactly the way you do now, that if my husband really loved me he'd just stop drinking, but the more I read and educated myself about the disease the more I realized that I was wrong.
Please, please, PLEASE do yourself a favor and read this article:
[Note: I have tried posting the URL to this article, but I keep getting a message that I cannot share websites until after I have posted 15 messages! If you PM me, I will hopefully be able to give the URL to you that way.]
It was THIS article that helped me finally grasp the concept that getting sober is not simply mind over matter for an alcoholic. Their brains are physiologically PROGRAMMED to crave alcohol every minute of every day, especially under certain circumstances, or "triggers". Think of it this way: Let's say you take a train to work every day. The tracks are laid to travel from Point A to Point B, so every time you get on that train at Point A, you will end up at Point B. There are neurological pathways (explained in detail in that article) that are established in the alcoholic's brain just like this set of train tracks. Whenever he has a bad day (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). Whenever he has a really good day (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). Whenever he is completely bored (Point A), he is going to drink (Point B). And so on....
Okay, so then let's say one day you get on that train at Point A and decide you don't WANT to go to Point B anymore. You say out loud, "Train, I don't want to go to Point B today. Take me to Point C instead." You can will that train all you want and wish with ALL YOUR HEART for that train to take you to Point C, but the tracks are laid to take you to Point B and that is where you will inevitably go. The only way you can get that train to take you to Point C instead of Point B is to physically move those train tracks, and that is what the addiction recovery process is all about. An alcoholic needs the tools taught to them during the rehabilitation process in order to "reprogram" their neurological pathways so that their triggers (Point A) do not always automatically make them want to drink (Point B).
This article only addresses the scientific explanation of why alcoholism an actual disease, though, which is really just the tip of the iceberg. I have read other articles that explain that an alcoholic deals with guilt and shame on a daily basis, but they rarely ever discuss it or wear those emotions on their sleeve. As a result, loved ones think that the A has no remorse for their actions and react by reminding them of all the reasons why they should feel guilty for drinking. This, in turn, just creates a huge trigger for the alcoholic because it compounds the shame and guilt that they were already feeling. It's a vicious cycle, really.
Anyway, I didn't mean to write such a long message. The point I am trying to get across is just that the best thing you can do for both yourself and your alcoholic loved one is to educate yourself as much as possible in order to gain a better understanding about what they are going through. You really do need to throw everything you THOUGHT you knew about alcoholism out the window and start from scratch. Once I did that, my own behaviors began to modify as a result and I feel like I do a MUCH better job of dealing with the situations brought about by my AH these days. I'm not perfect by ANY means and I still have a LONG way to go, but that is what has been the biggest help to me so far.
Good luck. I really hope it all works out for the best.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
Originally Posted by anvilhead 
then perhaps instead of FORGIVE work for now on ACCEPTING him EXACTLY as he is. HE is not going to change just to make things easier for YOU to deal with. that's just how it is dealing with someone in active addiction. if he is still drinking, he is not SOBER in the context we speak of here. if he's an alcoholic, and still drinking, he's in active addiction. SOBER indicates not drinking anymore at all.
what do you expect will be different between today and september?
what do you expect will be different between today and september?
I don't think much will change between now and September. September is my birthday and I wanted to work on myself before then and get "okay" with leaving him. If that makes sense. I know I "should" leave him. Everyone says to. But there is 3% of me, if that, that says to stay and stick it out and just leave when the kids are grown up.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 27
Sounds like he does not want to stop so you are on a hidding to nothing. Is you can't live with it now, what makes you think you can live with it later. He is who he is. Do you love him? Do you want to live the rest of your life like this? You have to answer "Yes" to BOTH questions before you need to think further.
My AW drinks irregularly, once every other month or so. No reason, it just happens. She goes to AA and at present works hard not to drink. I can answer yes to the first question but as to the second....??
Live your life, if he has a part in it stick at it.
My AW drinks irregularly, once every other month or so. No reason, it just happens. She goes to AA and at present works hard not to drink. I can answer yes to the first question but as to the second....??
Live your life, if he has a part in it stick at it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 27
Nice post from KittyTET. It really is not personal between the AH, AW etc and the people they love. As we know they can not help the need or the triggers that lead to their drinking. I think what is hard to accept is that some do not appear to realise how their action affect others. Even if they do, the guilt means that they do not want to acknowledge the affect of their drinking. Once you realise that you can not change that, life emotionally becomes easier.
However, it is a personal choice what you do about it. I have two very young children who I need to protect, so the choice may not be mine to make.
However, it is a personal choice what you do about it. I have two very young children who I need to protect, so the choice may not be mine to make.
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Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by whyamistaying
But there is 3% of me, if that, that says to stay and stick it out and just leave when the kids are grown up.
L
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Well, I can tell you from experience, I sorta had the same experience.
Once I knew that our marriage was never going to heal since he did not want recovery, lived in denial and outright lied all the time, I made a plan.
I planned carefully to move out. I saved every penny I could and a few months later I had my own home.
How I did it was simple. I had it in my mind that I had nothing to look forward to staying. Absolutely nothing worth staying for that is. Sure, I loved him. But I had my own life to think of. Everything revolved around him. There was no time for me, my feelings or my needs.
Planning to get out finally gave me something GOOD to look forward to. It paid off too. Once I was out, I didn't look back. He tried and tried to get me back home, but to what? chaos? fear? I didn't want it, I had found peace and I was darned if I was going to let him take it away from me.
As for the sadness after leaving that everyone feels, well, I spent several years in mourning while I was with him. By the time I got out there was no severe sadness left to feel. I felt different, a little scared, but those feelings were better than living with someone who I didn't trust.
Make a plan. Put it on paper on what you want to do till September. You won't feel so lost, and fearful.
Once I knew that our marriage was never going to heal since he did not want recovery, lived in denial and outright lied all the time, I made a plan.
I planned carefully to move out. I saved every penny I could and a few months later I had my own home.
How I did it was simple. I had it in my mind that I had nothing to look forward to staying. Absolutely nothing worth staying for that is. Sure, I loved him. But I had my own life to think of. Everything revolved around him. There was no time for me, my feelings or my needs.
Planning to get out finally gave me something GOOD to look forward to. It paid off too. Once I was out, I didn't look back. He tried and tried to get me back home, but to what? chaos? fear? I didn't want it, I had found peace and I was darned if I was going to let him take it away from me.
As for the sadness after leaving that everyone feels, well, I spent several years in mourning while I was with him. By the time I got out there was no severe sadness left to feel. I felt different, a little scared, but those feelings were better than living with someone who I didn't trust.
Make a plan. Put it on paper on what you want to do till September. You won't feel so lost, and fearful.
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