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Too far gone? How do you know?

Old 06-15-2009, 04:19 PM
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Too far gone? How do you know?

What if you are hopeless and you just keep kidding yourself that all will be well, that you can beat this thing, that you can be happy? What if you are crippled and you grew up with cripples, how would you know you are crippled till you see someone who isn't? I know, stop analyzing, stop fighting, stop thinking, but I'm having a real problem with that. The further I am away from the last drink, the more my thoughts seem to obsess over being an alcoholic, looking back on a wasted life and wondering just how the hell to do this. How do you surrender when you've been taught to fight all your life? How do you feel when you've shut off your feelings for years, and you don't know any real feelings except anger and disgust? Geez, I am sick of this mental merry-go-round, but going to meetings and talking with my sponsor does not alleviate the pain of a wasted life no more than talking about the weather with my neighbor can stop the sun from shining.

Maybe the reality is that some are too far gone, some are beyond redemption, some are just a little out of reach. Maybe the recovery ship is like the Titanic, only so many lifeboats to go around and the others just sink and drown. As with anyone, I'd like to be on one of those lifeboats, but the feelings seem to weigh me down, causing me to feel unworthy and destined to be a drunk all my life, maybe not a gutter drunk, but a drunk nonetheless.

I've noticed a drop in responses to the people like myself who struggle to grasp all that is suggested up front, so maybe we are the stubborn, willful ones who fail to see the way even after the roadsigns point repeatedly in the same direction. I can't be in an AA meeting 24 hrs. a day and I can't be here 24/7, so that leaves alot of time to wallow in hell.

Why the hell am I still lost, I am trying. That I know, I am trying to do what is suggested to me, I don't quit easily and am still here, am still going to meetings, and still read the BB daily, so it seems to me that a little relief from the obsession to self-destruct would be forthcoming. I'm on the first step, don't really know what it means to work on it, my life has been unmanageable by me for decades. A lost, bankrupted business, a lost, bankrupt marriage, plenty of health problems, lost nights and one-night-stands, tons of wasted money, totally disconnected from any worthwhile feelings, it can't be much more unmanageable than that, well, maybe if I were in the gutter.

I don't want a drink today, today is day six this time around, but I sure am tired of my thoughts spinning out of control. I spent four hours last night playing card games on my computer just to distract myself from my own thoughts. Maybe some of us are too far gone or maybe that's just another cop-out from my damn alcoholic mind. It's enough to drive ya nuts.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:26 PM
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I've never met anyone who was 'too far gone'.
I've met several people who decided they were tho.

People die like that, FS.

Anybody..everybody...can recover - if they want to.
D
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:29 PM
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Hi Firestorm,

I know that early sobriety is very hard. And, lots of try numerous times before we get it. All I can do is tell you what worked for me. I got to a point where I felt I was going to be lost forever and I decided that drinking was no longer an option, no matter how bad I felt. By doing that, I had find other ways to get through the day. I started walking, a lot, and it helped on every level. I began volunteering with women who lived on the street. I thought I could offer something to them, and it turned out that I was given love and hope. Get outside yourself and do something for someone else. It can help.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:29 PM
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Man, I'm less than a month in myself and struggling with some of the same issues. What gets me through is realizing that what's done is done. All you can do is look forward to not making the same mistakes and maybe trying to undo the damage to any extent possible.

If you're "too far gone" already, why would you want to make yourself even further gone?
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:40 PM
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FS,
It's not a wasted life - don't think that! You lived, and now you live. That's what we all do.
As for the emotional merry-go-round: you have my empathy. I completely relate to spending hours doing something menial in order to distract my mind. I'm on day 6 too, so I think we're on the same level there. Right now, I think that is perfectly fine for us to do - whatever keeps us sane without giving in to the addiction.
Breathe deep, take a quick shower, chug water, entertain your mind. Perhaps repeat. *sighs* I'm trying not to dwell on the past or the future, and it's hard! So, I hear ya!
Keep posting when you feel like it - I'm on your team and am happy to read whatever you write

Yay day 6!
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:42 PM
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What you said about a wasted life just jumped out at me.
I guess I could look back and def say the same thing.
I have never done anything with myself. I am 33 and still live at home.
I own nothing and never have.
But I dont see my life as a waste. Even through all the addiciton. I cant say it has been wasted.
I had alot of fun in my addiction for alot of years. Even sometimes when the consequenses were huge. It was fun until that point. I have been through it all and it still hasnt shocked me or scared me strait. I have all but died.
So I wonder WTF is wrong with me too alot.
I cant say that any of my life has been a waste at all. Because even though it was fun. There were alot of lessons learned along the way. And I learned most of them the hard way.
I use to think I was too far gone. I still do sometimes. But not really.
I have seen some that are beyong too far gone. And I agree with Dee. Only because they thought they were and gave up.
Have you ever seen someone who has truly given up?
It is the darkest saddest thing you will ever set your eyes on.
To me too far gone is not when you think you cant get it and never will.
Its when the person seriously and totally gives up and really does not care if they live or die.
They are making every move count toward death on purpose.
Its liek holding a gun to your head and not having the guts to pull the trigger. Screaming for a way out but dont know how. So you kill yourself the only way you know how.... Slowly.
It is the most heart breakign thing to look at.
The extremes I have gone to dont even compare closely to some that I have seen. And I thank Goodness for that.

I dont see myself as wasted time or life. Because out of all that. Came something.
Something that is goin to help me keep going.
I believe everything happens for a reason. And I am not dead or in the street with nowhere to go. I havent given up and there has to be a reason for that.

I look at where I am today and where I could have been had I given up like those poor souls I met in the street. Who most are now dead.

I havent wasted anything...except knowing it all has a purpose somehow.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:51 PM
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I just want to add that the ones who are too far gone. Dont know and never do. They die.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:51 PM
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What if you are crippled and you grew up with cripples, how would you know you are crippled till you see someone who isn't?
That sounds like that Plato thing - the cave dealie. What was that called?

looking back on a wasted life and wondering just how the hell to do this.
Just a hint - what's behind, or if we've got to keep turning around to see it - isn't 'here'.
But, you sponsor probably says that, too, huh?

I don't want a drink today, today is day six this time around, but I sure am tired of my thoughts spinning out of control.
Day six ... well, you're almost a week in, then!

SOME of that rushing feeling is your body throwin off toxins,
and I don't remember sleeping for MONTHS when I detoxed.
While 'stinkin thinkin' has it's attribute somewhat in the brain chemistry,
a good bit of it is just ...
habitual self - destruction.

You're doing the right thing, hon.
Keep talking to your sponsor
keep going to meetings
and let your body heal.

Sometimes, just knowing that it takes longer than a fortnight
to get all the alcohool residuals out of your system
is enough for us to
relax when those feelings/thoughts come on.

"Oh, here's another bit of acetone from the ol liver'
or something like that

it really helped me to know that
when I felt like I was gonna jump outa my skin
and run screaming out of the meeting and into traffic.
Just to make it stop.

Same goes for the classic
'why are you bothering to quit at all
you've already ruined your life'

that's the chemicals, too, more often than not.

That's why the Program is so effective in that
it gives you a list of people to call to get
a real voice on the phone
to help you
a voice who's been exactly where you are now.

GOOD FOR YOU
for keeping on with it.
It's not all going to be
tense as a board
resisting a drink.

It really isn't going to be that.
That goes away.

hope something in there helps!
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
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Hopeless to me is being dead. As long as there is the slightest flicker of hope all is not gone yet. Your disease is talking to you right now, I'm sure you've heard Cunning, baffling, powerful. Well that's exactly what is going on right now. Stay true to yourself, you can do this, you are not hopeless. Read step 1 2 & 3. Keep posting, keep going to your meetings, keep talking to your sponsor. Honey, this too shall pass. Day 6 in itself is a miracle, isn't it? I know it was for me. I couldn't believe that I could go 1 hr without drinking/drugging. I know you can do this. Tell your disease to go take a damn hike because you're not quitting!!!!!! Keep up the good work FS you can do this.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by firestorm090 View Post
How do you surrender when you've been taught to fight all your life? How do you feel when you've shut off your feelings for years, and you don't know any real feelings except anger and disgust?
You don't, firestorm. You don't worry about any of this stuff. You just put one foot in front of the other. Pooh Bear had the problem of always forgetting which one was the right foot. Have you found the right foot? Do you have a sponsor who can sit down with you and the Big Book and go through the Dr.'s Opinion, Bill's Story, and More About Alcoholism? That's all you have to do at the moment. Trust me. I've been through this with a number of guys. It's all you have to do. Immerse yourself completely in this program.

Originally Posted by firestorm090 View Post
I've noticed a drop in responses to the people like myself who struggle to grasp all that is suggested up front,
Boy, I hope that isn't true. Soomething is seriously wrong if all we can offer is good luck. I'll do all I can to help and so will a lot of others. You, my friend, are not beyond hope. Any hoplessness you are feeling can work to your advantage right now. You're a fighter, right? So start fighting real damn hard.

I watched a guy this year struggle for months. He'd get a few weeks, relapse, come to a meeting drunk, get another couple weeks, disappear. He was always welcome. He kept at it and it's finally working after 6 months or so. He had to do things that he had never done. He'd heard about doing them, but hadn't actually done them.

Originally Posted by firestorm090 View Post
I'm on the first step, don't really know what it means to work on it.
Ask. Asking puts you in a position of surrender. A certain required mindset.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:42 PM
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Six days wasn't long enough for my head to clear, firestorm. Although I hated hearing it early on, I've found it to be true: time takes time. If you don't already have a sponsor, please get one. Those steps can't be taken alone. Although I didn't know it at the time, my thoughts processes were twisted beyond the point that they could be repaired by any means of self-help. I didn't need self-help. I needed help.

Also--and I don't expect you to understand it now or even believe it--if you stick with it, there will come a day when everything you're seeing in your liability column will move on over to the asset column. That comes later down the line, and it is so cool when it happens.

Peace & Love,
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:06 PM
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I'd like to suggest that you find some new activities to fill your time. Walking outside, reading books, learning to play an instrument.

If nothing changes, nothing changes?
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:15 PM
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Put down the sword... get that first step in your heart. By surrendering you win. I know you've heard that before... I just preface my next thoughts with that one.

I don't know if I have anything to say that will resonate with you. But here goes...

I remember so many days like the one your having. Early sobriety sucks... not having to go through that again is enough to keep me in the rooms alone. Right now, I am having an unsettled few days... my wife was away since friday... turns out I have some pretty serious shoulder problems (painful physical therapy, maybe surgery... both shoulders!)... I feel like avoiding work and all things requiring sustained effort.

Second step... God will restore us to sanity. Third step... Let go and Let God.

I think I'll trust Him... If I keep trying to do the next right thing... God will do His will, His next right thing for me. I don't know what that is... but I don''t have to know.

When I get all tangled up, thrown about on those stormy seas on that little lifeboat... These truths are the only thing that settles me.

I needed to write that, whether you needed to hear it, I don't know. Firestorm, I care about you and your journey... I am honored to be here on SR where you share it with all of us. Hang in there buddy.

Mark
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:32 PM
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D, just a little hope? Just believe a tiny bit that maybe, just maybe when the sh!t storm is past you can have a life that has some joy and purpose to it? You're here on this great earth for a reason D, all of us are. If you look back at your past and you don't see the reason, that means its still in front of you hon. Your health is so bad, I fear if you give up you will be gone too soon, and you know I don't want that to happen. I'd never even know why you were gone, but it would break my heart all the same.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:55 PM
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If you can still try, you're not too far gone. Don't give up on yourself. You CAN do this.:ghug3
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:11 PM
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Maybe some of us are too far gone or maybe that's just another cop-out from my damn alcoholic mind. It's enough to drive ya nuts.
You know D, Hugh D when he would speak used to quote this a lot, the first paragraph of Chapter 5 of the BB of AA, "How It Works."

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Then he would say .................................. "A "Smart Azz" or "Wet Brain." So when you are sitting on the curb trying to figure out which one your are, you have two choices."

Now sure, he would get laughs, but he was serious. Hugh had the knack for 'simplifying things' and bringing them into perspective, and no he was not 'politically correct.'

D, you are on day 6 not 96 or 366. SLOW DOWN. You spent many years getting to where you are now, and you ain't going to be well in 6 days.

Do a "Timeline" on your drinking career. Dates if possible, what happened, as your life moved on, and in black and white you will then see your own progression. This can go a long way to getting the ACCEPTANCE to the very core of your being that yes, you are an alcoholic and yes your life has become unmanageable. Once you know and feel this to the core of your being, you will be ready for Step 2. Not that you won't go back and read Step 1, over and over and over, as time goes on as a REMINDER.

Your question BTW is very common. I too, questioned whether I could ever do this, was I too 'far gone', etc and I got the comment given to me about which was I a smart azz or a wet brain ........................................ well I knew I wasn't a 'wet brain' I had visited some at the VA Hospital in Northridge, so guess what? rofl sure brought me up short and made me realize that those questions were my disease talking to me.

Talk with your sponsor about this, talk with other 'old timers' at your meetings.

You will get past this also.

How's the daily "TO DO" list coming along?

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by firestorm090 View Post
I've noticed a drop in responses to the people like myself who struggle to grasp all that is suggested up front, so maybe we are the stubborn, willful ones who fail to see the way even after the roadsigns point repeatedly in the same direction. I can't be in an AA meeting 24 hrs. a day and I can't be here 24/7, so that leaves alot of time to wallow in hell.

I don't want a drink today, today is day six this time around, but I sure am tired of my thoughts spinning out of control. I spent four hours last night playing card games on my computer just to distract myself from my own thoughts. Maybe some of us are too far gone or maybe that's just another cop-out from my damn alcoholic mind. It's enough to drive ya nuts.
I understand what you are saying about a drop in responses. I sometimes feel the same way myself and I've been a member here for years. However, I think it is really more your mind messing with you than the truth. When you first join, everyone tries to welcome you, give you "newbie" advice, etc. After you've been around for a little while, people aren't going to keep repeating the same thing over and over to you. You will get that to a degree, but people aren't going to argue with you. If you need support you can almost always find it here. I have for years. I know I find myself checking the site many times a day, especially eager for responses to posts I've made, but that is me, not the people here. I'm not sure how much sense I am making here, but please don't think people here will EVER get sick of helping you. I've been in and out countless times and continue to get support from the oldtimers who remember me and newbies as well. Don't let your mind get to you.

BTW, if playing 4 hrs of computer cards is keeping you sober, deal 'em out!!! I've spent (wasted) countless hours with my X-box, especially in the evenings, when I'm in an especially "dangerous" place. That has always been one of my "issues" with meetings is that usually I can't attend due to work in the day, and I'm afraid to leave my house at night for fear that I might not make it to the meeting and end up drinking or getting high. It's gone that way more than once for me. Personally I feel that I need the fellowship the rooms have to offer and I'm going to have to find a way to make it work. Still working on that. Take care, stay sober, and play cards if you need to!!
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:03 PM
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Finally, a "light bulb" moment of clarity!!

I've been thinking, as many here have stated, that my "alcoholic mind" has been talking to me, and when I'm feeling better, my "other mind" is talking to me. Actually, we only have one mind and right now mine is an "alcoholic mind" because how could it be anything else after so much booze for so long. In effect, All of my thoughts are alcoholic to some extent at this time. What a bummer. However, the realization that all of my thinking is presently suspect leaves an awful lot of room for growth, so as polluted as my mind may be, it's the only one I have and is the only one I need to change. That's refreshing, I was beginning to think I was a Jeckle/Hyde kinda guy, but in reality I'm just one sick drunk trying to stay sober, regardless of my thoughts. It's the actions that count and for now, I'm not drinking tonight, and as tyler, suggested, I may play some more cards, lots of cards, before this is all better.

I have found though, and please forgive my honesty, that reading the BB is one sure way of drifting off to sleep. Sorry, it just works that way for me for now.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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I have found though, and please forgive my honesty, that reading the BB is one sure way of drifting off to sleep.
Remember that when you get into the 'insomnia' stage. I used to hate it when folks would say to me "no one dies from lack of sleep" and I was exhausted. Then quietly, one day, my sponsor said to me "laurie I know you are having trouble sleeping. This will pass. I also know that you are still having some problems with retaining what you read, however, I would like to suggest that you try reading the Big Book when you are having a bad night." By the time she said this to me, I was open to anything, lol

And, YES, the Big Book, for over a month became my 'sleeping pill.' It never failed to put me to sleep. What I didn't realize is that by reading it every night, and falling asleep didn't matter in the least, I was setting up a pattern for my own recovery that has continued to this day. Every night I read a bit of the BB, and no it doesn't put me to sleep any more, but it does give me closure to the day.

So, it's alright that the BB puts you to sleep, lol as the day will come when it no longer does.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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