Using the eighth step to alienate
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Using the eighth step to alienate
Ok, before ya'll jump on me, I have been busy cleaning up my side of the street. This post is more about what to do when your dear "loved one" is cleaning up THEIR side of the street by throwing their junk on your property.
AND it will probably resonate more with the victims of emotional and verbal abuse than with those who have not had this issue...
RAH been "sober" 90 days. Working the program. He has set himself up as this hero that found God and the program as a respite from an angry crazy demented woman. He has found peace, which I imagine would be very easy to do if I only had myself to worry about, and perhaps the occasional disney moment with our 15 year old. He lives less than 30 minutes away, drives this way every day for meetings, but takes on no responsibility, and anything having to do with me or my feelings is "detrimental to his recovery."
Now on about day 90, entering the eighth step of his program and reaching out to our neighbors, his family members and to MINE to make ammends? or well at least connect...and explain why he is asking me for a divorce, or if not using the word divorce, letting them know that I had made this marriage impossible....I thought that it was that his behaviors and use of alcohol had made this marriage impossible...
I have not asked for reports back from friends and family, but I get them nonetheless, and the reports are that the marriage was so intolerable that he HAD to seek help in the program. He tells the story of finding God and being at peace. The conversations then turn to ME in the form of questions about my mental health, my use of substances, my this, my that. Oh my God, even in the steps he is using collusion and illusion to take the heat off having to look at his own behavior. I have a daughter who is publicly backing up her dad's position and a sister who loves to spread the drama. I didn't think this was supposed to be eighth step work?
This week he told me he wants a divorce and to make it final as soon as possible because I "squashed his spirit" Gee, I never knew that his spirit was mine to squash and I thought the first step was accepting that alcohol was probably in charge of squashing his spirit.
This really hurts. I have come a long way in my recovery, because I am not vehemently defending myself or taking it personally (ok maybe a little.) I just assure them that I am doing fine and seeking counsel and support, and thank them for their (BLECH) concern. I then keep them at arms length.
But I can't help but want to scream...........and I don't think after 25 years of marriage (next tuesday is the anniversary) that this is necessary. I have a therapist, and few 'in the vault secret keeping' friends who I vent details to, and then to you guys, but other than that I am very careful not to disparage him with the kids, relations or friends.
ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH Any words of advice? It makes me want to re-isolate after just having the courage to start getting my own life again.
AND it will probably resonate more with the victims of emotional and verbal abuse than with those who have not had this issue...
RAH been "sober" 90 days. Working the program. He has set himself up as this hero that found God and the program as a respite from an angry crazy demented woman. He has found peace, which I imagine would be very easy to do if I only had myself to worry about, and perhaps the occasional disney moment with our 15 year old. He lives less than 30 minutes away, drives this way every day for meetings, but takes on no responsibility, and anything having to do with me or my feelings is "detrimental to his recovery."
Now on about day 90, entering the eighth step of his program and reaching out to our neighbors, his family members and to MINE to make ammends? or well at least connect...and explain why he is asking me for a divorce, or if not using the word divorce, letting them know that I had made this marriage impossible....I thought that it was that his behaviors and use of alcohol had made this marriage impossible...
I have not asked for reports back from friends and family, but I get them nonetheless, and the reports are that the marriage was so intolerable that he HAD to seek help in the program. He tells the story of finding God and being at peace. The conversations then turn to ME in the form of questions about my mental health, my use of substances, my this, my that. Oh my God, even in the steps he is using collusion and illusion to take the heat off having to look at his own behavior. I have a daughter who is publicly backing up her dad's position and a sister who loves to spread the drama. I didn't think this was supposed to be eighth step work?
This week he told me he wants a divorce and to make it final as soon as possible because I "squashed his spirit" Gee, I never knew that his spirit was mine to squash and I thought the first step was accepting that alcohol was probably in charge of squashing his spirit.
This really hurts. I have come a long way in my recovery, because I am not vehemently defending myself or taking it personally (ok maybe a little.) I just assure them that I am doing fine and seeking counsel and support, and thank them for their (BLECH) concern. I then keep them at arms length.
But I can't help but want to scream...........and I don't think after 25 years of marriage (next tuesday is the anniversary) that this is necessary. I have a therapist, and few 'in the vault secret keeping' friends who I vent details to, and then to you guys, but other than that I am very careful not to disparage him with the kids, relations or friends.
ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH Any words of advice? It makes me want to re-isolate after just having the courage to start getting my own life again.
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I've found that I can cut 'well meaning' people off at the pass when it comes to secondhand stories from them of the A.
I don't have to listen. I choose not to listen. It serves no purpose in my life.
I don't have to listen. I choose not to listen. It serves no purpose in my life.
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TBH, all I see when I read this post is a huge pile of resentment. For example:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you are 'wrong' for having resentments. We all have our feelings and emotions, and they have to be worked through.
I did a lot of journaling to work through my anger and resentment, and sometimes even rage. It was just between me and my notebook(s). I spewed it all out, full of CAPITAL LETTERS and UNdERLINES and !!!!!!!!!!!'s. I kept doing it for as long as I needed to get it all out. And, believe me, it took some months of spewing to get 18 years of resentment out! And slowly, over the course of those months, I began to learn that all that resentment was only hurting me. At some point I had to admit that HE wasn't to blame for how bad I was feeling, I was.
He was off doing whatever he wanted with his life, yet I was still stewing and fuming and letting him take up space in my head. I had to learn to let go. We had been living separately for over a year before I honestly let him go. And what a relief not to have that big knot in the pit of my stomach anymore.
Go ahead, get your own life. And remember, "what others think of me is none of my business."
L
He has found peace, which I imagine would be very easy to do if I only had myself to worry about, and perhaps the occasional disney moment with our 15 year old. He lives less than 30 minutes away, drives this way every day for meetings, but takes on no responsibility, and anything having to do with me or my feelings is "detrimental to his recovery."
I did a lot of journaling to work through my anger and resentment, and sometimes even rage. It was just between me and my notebook(s). I spewed it all out, full of CAPITAL LETTERS and UNdERLINES and !!!!!!!!!!!'s. I kept doing it for as long as I needed to get it all out. And, believe me, it took some months of spewing to get 18 years of resentment out! And slowly, over the course of those months, I began to learn that all that resentment was only hurting me. At some point I had to admit that HE wasn't to blame for how bad I was feeling, I was.
He was off doing whatever he wanted with his life, yet I was still stewing and fuming and letting him take up space in my head. I had to learn to let go. We had been living separately for over a year before I honestly let him go. And what a relief not to have that big knot in the pit of my stomach anymore.
Go ahead, get your own life. And remember, "what others think of me is none of my business."
L
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Originally Posted by tallulah 
I know people work at their own pace and all that.. but one thing struck me..
90 days and already on step 8!!!!??
90 days and already on step 8!!!!??
In the early days of AA they worked through the steps very quickly.
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FunnyOne, I agree with all above.
And for what my personal opinion's worth -- and it isn't worth much usually
-- I think you're right. He doesn't seem to be doing this:
He seems to be doing this:
THAT CAN'T MATTER TO YOUR OWN RECOVERY. If he wants to "do" the program wrong, or mess it up, or do whatever -- he gets to do that.
Let it go as best you can.
I journaled my resentments too, until my fingers were just about worn down to stubs. It really helped.
Take care of YOU. What he does or doesn't do will only drive you mad.
And for what my personal opinion's worth -- and it isn't worth much usually
-- I think you're right. He doesn't seem to be doing this:
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. But when it came time to make amends, made certain that they knew that none of this was really my fault.
Let it go as best you can.
I journaled my resentments too, until my fingers were just about worn down to stubs. It really helped.
Take care of YOU. What he does or doesn't do will only drive you mad.
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Do you really think, honestly now, that his express train through recovery is going to have any lasting benefit????
I read his 90 days, now on step 8, it's still all my wife's fault, and I am at peace as only a manipulation of the system, you, the neighbors, and anyone who will listen.
Talk about fake it till you make it!
IMO, This reminds me of one of my ABFs binges only your A seems to be making a run through the rooms of AA and the big book. He will implode when his binge runs its course like any other DOC binge.
I wouldn't be surprised if all those folks with questions about just how evil you are to run such an angel off don't end up calling you saying they had no idea he was so full of s**t.
My ABF drinks to avoid the emotional and moral burdens of living a real life. It seems like your A is breezing through his recovery to do the same thing.
I'd be resentful too. Now what are you going to do to move past this and continue down the path meant for you???
Alice
I read his 90 days, now on step 8, it's still all my wife's fault, and I am at peace as only a manipulation of the system, you, the neighbors, and anyone who will listen.
Talk about fake it till you make it!
IMO, This reminds me of one of my ABFs binges only your A seems to be making a run through the rooms of AA and the big book. He will implode when his binge runs its course like any other DOC binge.
I wouldn't be surprised if all those folks with questions about just how evil you are to run such an angel off don't end up calling you saying they had no idea he was so full of s**t.
My ABF drinks to avoid the emotional and moral burdens of living a real life. It seems like your A is breezing through his recovery to do the same thing.
I'd be resentful too. Now what are you going to do to move past this and continue down the path meant for you???
Alice
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
That's not unheard of, Tallulah. The rehab I was in required working through the first 7 steps before we were discharged. I was grateful for that because left to my own devices, I probably wouldn't have worked the steps.
In the early days of AA they worked through the steps very quickly.
In the early days of AA they worked through the steps very quickly.
I suppose I was using the ex as a measuring stick. It took him a year and a half to do step one.
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I do realize I still carry some resentment, OK, more than some. And when I am physically exhausted I carry more resentment than others. The one thing he used to do is the yard work...as this is spring cleanup, I have had to add that to all the other stuff I did. Does anyone know a good and free lawn service? Free being key word. I think I have already impinged on the child labor laws with regard to my son's help!
I don't know, I just don't get the target enemy thing. If he was that unhappy, be off with him....I'm not asking him for anything and only emailing regarding finances and kids. Why can't he just GO away....why the need to denigrate me in the process?...except maybe the blame think, LOVE THE QUOTE Good Love! Can't he blame the economy or the buzzing of the bees instead?????
I don't know, I just don't get the target enemy thing. If he was that unhappy, be off with him....I'm not asking him for anything and only emailing regarding finances and kids. Why can't he just GO away....why the need to denigrate me in the process?...except maybe the blame think, LOVE THE QUOTE Good Love! Can't he blame the economy or the buzzing of the bees instead?????
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Oh, and my quotes thing doesn't work, but regarding the time frame, my advisor and my therapist have both questioned it because they know HIM. His idea of processing his feelings was laughing hysterically at the superbowl ads, his self awareness limited to the fact that he liked college basketball instead of the pro's, and his idea of God was that everybody who went to church was a f'ing hypocrite. No kidding. He used to laugh at my belief in a HP, soul contracts, destiny...called it ******.
I have read so many books lately I can't remember which one called stuffing your feelings as the BEACH BALL theory. You spend all your time and energy stuffing the beach ball into the water beneath you, as the ocean gets rougher it takes increasingly more energy to hold the beach ball down, finally it explodes into the air shooting straight up with velocity. Not judging, but knowing him, going from concentrating on the beach ball to contemplating his shortcomings might be a stretch. We'll see......
I have read so many books lately I can't remember which one called stuffing your feelings as the BEACH BALL theory. You spend all your time and energy stuffing the beach ball into the water beneath you, as the ocean gets rougher it takes increasingly more energy to hold the beach ball down, finally it explodes into the air shooting straight up with velocity. Not judging, but knowing him, going from concentrating on the beach ball to contemplating his shortcomings might be a stretch. We'll see......
Being Silent so I can Hear
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Oh geez. Geez x 10000000.
This is oh so familiar. *I am rolling my eyeballs here*
FunnyOne - It's a whole lot easier for me to say to you "to hell with what he thinks and what falls out of his lying mouth" than it is for me to do. Luckily, I very rarely have to hear what new delusions my AH is spewing....but when I do, they're pretty incredible.
What I would do? I would nicely tell (not ask) all of these supposedly well meaning people to leave you out of it. You are not interested, you had years of it, you're done.
Honestly - it's a tragedy that he's wasting what time he has left living lies and delusions, rather than working on him. But, that's his choice.
This is oh so familiar. *I am rolling my eyeballs here*
FunnyOne - It's a whole lot easier for me to say to you "to hell with what he thinks and what falls out of his lying mouth" than it is for me to do. Luckily, I very rarely have to hear what new delusions my AH is spewing....but when I do, they're pretty incredible.
What I would do? I would nicely tell (not ask) all of these supposedly well meaning people to leave you out of it. You are not interested, you had years of it, you're done.
Honestly - it's a tragedy that he's wasting what time he has left living lies and delusions, rather than working on him. But, that's his choice.
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Hi FunnyOne
I agree in that whoever has "news" of him is NOT ESSENTIAL in your life, try to spend more time with your real "allies", the good people (especially the ones that do not know him at all, its SO refreshing to know they won't be bringing him up)
My 2 cents are that if you want to go far away, you can use any means: a car, a bike, you can run, take a plane, a balloon... you can use drugs or overeat or have sex or watch TV or play videogames or find a religion or use your private twisted version of 12 steps... the good thing is that he is not your problem anymore
Ago said once that it was no use taking them off our lives if they were still here in our minds and hearts, I hope HP gives you strength to move forward and think about diff. things.. I know how difficult that is... but when I finally start thinking about ME and my life it is so refreshing... or when I cannot do that I read the news or a book or something ELSE, whatever it is, to slowly realize there is so much going on on the planet and if I cannot stop thinking of ex AH and are not healed yet to make it all about ME, then at least I can use a 3rd party and focus my mind on the best pasta recipe or the last news on the H1N1 virus or politics in Congo or The Art of Murakami or if Mexico will or will not go to the World Cup (we are betting NO, our team sucks and will keep sucking).. whatever it is, whatever it takes to shift focus...
Hugs!!
I agree in that whoever has "news" of him is NOT ESSENTIAL in your life, try to spend more time with your real "allies", the good people (especially the ones that do not know him at all, its SO refreshing to know they won't be bringing him up)
My 2 cents are that if you want to go far away, you can use any means: a car, a bike, you can run, take a plane, a balloon... you can use drugs or overeat or have sex or watch TV or play videogames or find a religion or use your private twisted version of 12 steps... the good thing is that he is not your problem anymore
Ago said once that it was no use taking them off our lives if they were still here in our minds and hearts, I hope HP gives you strength to move forward and think about diff. things.. I know how difficult that is... but when I finally start thinking about ME and my life it is so refreshing... or when I cannot do that I read the news or a book or something ELSE, whatever it is, to slowly realize there is so much going on on the planet and if I cannot stop thinking of ex AH and are not healed yet to make it all about ME, then at least I can use a 3rd party and focus my mind on the best pasta recipe or the last news on the H1N1 virus or politics in Congo or The Art of Murakami or if Mexico will or will not go to the World Cup (we are betting NO, our team sucks and will keep sucking).. whatever it is, whatever it takes to shift focus...
Hugs!!
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Originally Posted by FunnyOne
And when I am physically exhausted I carry more resentment than others. The one thing he used to do is the yard work...as this is spring cleanup, I have had to add that to all the other stuff I did. Does anyone know a good and free lawn service? Free being key word. I think I have already impinged on the child labor laws with regard to my son's help!
I've reglazed some windows this year, repaired storm windows, taken the car to the shop when it needed repairs. I've even replaced the tank kit on one of the toilets.
What I discovered in the long run is I take a great deal of pride in my self-sufficiency. It's a good feeling to know I can get these things done, and haven't needed a man in my life for amost a decade now.
I'm grateful for every painful thing I've been through in past marriages/relationships because today I am who I am because of those experiences.
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
I've reglazed some windows this year, repaired storm windows, taken the car to the shop when it needed repairs. I've even replaced the tank kit on one of the toilets.
What I discovered in the long run is I take a great deal of pride in my self-sufficiency. It's a good feeling to know I can get these things done, and haven't needed a man in my life for amost a decade now.
What I discovered in the long run is I take a great deal of pride in my self-sufficiency. It's a good feeling to know I can get these things done, and haven't needed a man in my life for amost a decade now.
Now, if it would just stop raining so we could eat dinner outside........*sigh*
L
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I can understand how you feel FunnyOne. It is kind of a kick in the gut when someone takes the mess from their side of the street and throws some of it to your side. I’ve got a little experience of that.
At first I was incredulous. I couldn’t believe it and it was like a punch in the gut: it winded and hurt. But then I thought… what does this really have to do with me. Sure they can throw that stuff over but I don’t have to accept it. They can dump it wherever they like in the street.. it is still theirs to clean up. If they don’t.. not my problem. I’m responsible for my mess.. and the only way I’ll be left to deal with theirs is if I take ownership of it. So I don’t.
At first I was incredulous. I couldn’t believe it and it was like a punch in the gut: it winded and hurt. But then I thought… what does this really have to do with me. Sure they can throw that stuff over but I don’t have to accept it. They can dump it wherever they like in the street.. it is still theirs to clean up. If they don’t.. not my problem. I’m responsible for my mess.. and the only way I’ll be left to deal with theirs is if I take ownership of it. So I don’t.
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
Now why doesn't that surprise me?!
:ghug :ghug
:ghug :ghug
yeahh.. you'd think as this was not his first, second or {insert number} attempt it might have got that one down a little quicker..
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You are all so awesome. Sometimes, I don't want to log on because I know I'll get the proverbial kick in my resentful ars.... and then I get to balance it with been there done that which is warm and cushy...a balancing act for sure...but it's always wise advice...thanks!
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Hi Funny One, I hope you're feeling a little better. This is an issue we recovering codies have to address in our own individual ways.
I love truth. I do. I used to look away from it, i used to re-write it, I used to embellish it, I used to distort it, I used to do anything and everything except say it. If I worried about someone's reaction.
So, this is just me, BJ, with my take, and if I were in your shoes I would say the truth, once, and know that once is all that's needed for someone to really remember what you say.
"Alcohol destroyed my marriage."
It is a fact, you do not need to say more, and his presence in AA certainly confirms he is/was a drinker.
In typical alcoholic grandiose fashion, he has subverted the spiritual principles of the program to inflate his King Baby Ego.
Hold your head high, speak your simple truth, and live a life so beautiful it radiates integrity and worth. His behavior will have less effect as you build this new foundation for your life. If his recovery is built on sand, it will collapse.
Yours will last.Rock solid. xx
I love truth. I do. I used to look away from it, i used to re-write it, I used to embellish it, I used to distort it, I used to do anything and everything except say it. If I worried about someone's reaction.
So, this is just me, BJ, with my take, and if I were in your shoes I would say the truth, once, and know that once is all that's needed for someone to really remember what you say.
"Alcohol destroyed my marriage."
It is a fact, you do not need to say more, and his presence in AA certainly confirms he is/was a drinker.
In typical alcoholic grandiose fashion, he has subverted the spiritual principles of the program to inflate his King Baby Ego.
Hold your head high, speak your simple truth, and live a life so beautiful it radiates integrity and worth. His behavior will have less effect as you build this new foundation for your life. If his recovery is built on sand, it will collapse.
Yours will last.Rock solid. xx
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It sucks that your xAH is contacting the people in your life.
The other day, a friend of mine emailed me to tell me that she ran into the xABF, who told her he got a DUI and lost his license for 18+ months. Much as the gossip validated what I already knew, it feels negative hearing about his downward spiral, of which I choose to no longer be a part, and could not do anything about, regardless. I thanked her for telling me, because I knew her intentions were good, but told her that I would rather not know anything about what is going on in his life. Her response was "phew! I hate talking about him, but I didn't want you to think I was 'keeping' something from you."
I guess this is just to say that sometimes well meaning people just need to know they aren't betraying you by keeping gossip and information to themselves.
best,
at2
The other day, a friend of mine emailed me to tell me that she ran into the xABF, who told her he got a DUI and lost his license for 18+ months. Much as the gossip validated what I already knew, it feels negative hearing about his downward spiral, of which I choose to no longer be a part, and could not do anything about, regardless. I thanked her for telling me, because I knew her intentions were good, but told her that I would rather not know anything about what is going on in his life. Her response was "phew! I hate talking about him, but I didn't want you to think I was 'keeping' something from you."
I guess this is just to say that sometimes well meaning people just need to know they aren't betraying you by keeping gossip and information to themselves.
best,
at2
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