Invalidating your emotions
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Invalidating your emotions
Fascinating read on Invalidating Your Emotions, from the blog "Getting Past Your Past", I'm learning a ton:
This is the first in a many part series on Emotional Abuse
“Can you close the window? I’m cold”
“You can’t be cold.”
“Gerry’s late again and it makes me angry.”
“Oh chill out, there’s nothing to be angry about.”
“I don’t like it when you tease me like that.”
“I’m only kidding. You need thicker skin.”
“You’re too sensitive.” “You’re overreacting” “There’s nothing to cry about.” “You’re upset for no reason.” “You need to buck up and stop being a drama queen.” etc etc etc.
...often these examples represent a pattern of response that continually invalidates your feelings and your thoughts. It is often pervasive and has a withering effect. Eventually you have no confidence in what you are feeling or thinking. You start to judge your own feelings as wrong or wacky or over the top.
When your feelings are eroded, you lose your signal to how you feel. And when you lose the ability to figure out how you feel, you lose your ability to trust yourself and you lose sight of your gut instincts.
Losing sight of how you feel and why you feel and that what you feel is okay results in the inability to figure out what to do next. Sometimes you need to do something to make yourself feel more comfortable. Sometimes you just need to talk about it and have someone HEAR you, not tell you that you don’t feel what you know you feel. Sometimes you need to listen to your feelings to set a boundary, end a relationship or take another course of action.
A healthy maxim my first therapist used to say to me was: Know what you think. Know what you feel. Then act (or don’t act) on what you think and feel.
Without knowing how you feel or what you think, it is impossible to respond. And when you don’t know when or how to respond you become befuddled and indecisive. You continually second guess yourself and become unable to set out a strong plan for yourself.
You also fail to end relationships that need to end, to set boundaries that need to be set and to care for yourself in ways that you need to take care of yourself.
“Can you close the window? I’m cold”
“You can’t be cold.”
“Gerry’s late again and it makes me angry.”
“Oh chill out, there’s nothing to be angry about.”
“I don’t like it when you tease me like that.”
“I’m only kidding. You need thicker skin.”
“You’re too sensitive.” “You’re overreacting” “There’s nothing to cry about.” “You’re upset for no reason.” “You need to buck up and stop being a drama queen.” etc etc etc.
...often these examples represent a pattern of response that continually invalidates your feelings and your thoughts. It is often pervasive and has a withering effect. Eventually you have no confidence in what you are feeling or thinking. You start to judge your own feelings as wrong or wacky or over the top.
When your feelings are eroded, you lose your signal to how you feel. And when you lose the ability to figure out how you feel, you lose your ability to trust yourself and you lose sight of your gut instincts.
Losing sight of how you feel and why you feel and that what you feel is okay results in the inability to figure out what to do next. Sometimes you need to do something to make yourself feel more comfortable. Sometimes you just need to talk about it and have someone HEAR you, not tell you that you don’t feel what you know you feel. Sometimes you need to listen to your feelings to set a boundary, end a relationship or take another course of action.
A healthy maxim my first therapist used to say to me was: Know what you think. Know what you feel. Then act (or don’t act) on what you think and feel.
Without knowing how you feel or what you think, it is impossible to respond. And when you don’t know when or how to respond you become befuddled and indecisive. You continually second guess yourself and become unable to set out a strong plan for yourself.
You also fail to end relationships that need to end, to set boundaries that need to be set and to care for yourself in ways that you need to take care of yourself.
Last edited by GiveLove; 06-09-2009 at 02:39 PM.
Being Silent so I can Hear
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Why is it abuse? Well a one-time invalidation probably isn’t but most often these examples represent a pattern of response that continually invalidates your feelings and your thoughts. It is often pervasive and has a withering effect. Eventually you have no confidence in what you are feeling or thinking. You start to judge your own feelings as wrong or wacky or over the top.
When your feelings are eroded, you lose your signal to how you feel. And when you lose the ability to figure out how you feel, you lose your ability to trust yourself and you lose sight of your gut instincts.
When your feelings are eroded, you lose your signal to how you feel. And when you lose the ability to figure out how you feel, you lose your ability to trust yourself and you lose sight of your gut instincts.
Do you all think that this sort of thing is also abuse?:
"I have a headache.", "Yeah, me too"
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
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Originally Posted by Still Waters 
Absolutely.
Do you all think that this sort of thing is also abuse?:
"I have a headache.", "Yeah, me too"
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
Do you all think that this sort of thing is also abuse?:
"I have a headache.", "Yeah, me too"
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
In fact alot of people are like that. A friend of mine hurt her foot the week after my injury. Nothing major.. just a little bruising/soft tissue damage. I would be asked how my hand is and I would say it's sore.. which it was.. then be treated to a lengthy show and tell of a little bruise and small swelling. I'd smile and think 'okaaaay'. This was made even more of a marvel by her partner who said to me that I 'got off lightly' and fussed over her like she'd had major trauma damage and it was touch and go whether she'd walk again. Quite funny really..
I think some people just like to validate themself by invalidating others. Most of the time it is just attention seeking of a kind.. somethimes it is more sinister.. I guess it is context.
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Thanks for this post. I've been struggling to think why it is i've been feeling that i dont want to talk anymore and it's because i feel like everytime i open my mouth and say something the abf or ex abf as he is most porbably is at this moment -invalidates and twists everything i say. it's only little things that might pass you by if they wern't continually happening. Sort of little put downs - at least they feel like put downs- but they seem so inocuous and silly that you question yourself and the feeling you have. you begin to distrust your own thinking. you know how you feel inside but somehow you feel that your wrong for feeling it. you begin to wish you hadn't opened your mouth to express your opinion but you even think your in the wrong for thinking that. No one else would notice this going on, to anyone else it might just seem like a passing inconsequential comment and thats what makes it worse for you. it seems inconsequential so you think it's you who is being the akward one but if that is so, they why do you feel so bad. You tell yourself you feel bad becuase its you that has the wrong kind of thinking.
an example of this for me came the other day. We were out having some food in a bar and i remarked that the place seemed to be getting full of young women, probably on their dinner break and it might be a better idea for the management to put on a girlie type TV programme rather than the football that was showing. My bf looked at me in exasperation and said.. "why don't you just try to relax and enjoy your meal instead of looking for problems".
I felt really humilliated, what made his suppose that i wasnt relaxed, i wasn't enjoying the meal and that i was looking for problems what sort of an answer was that? it wasn't even applicable to what i had just said. With those words he made it apeer as if I was being ungrateful to him for taking me out and buying me lunch, and that wasn't the thruth at all.. he totaly twisted my reality, and I wished i hadn't opened my mouth to make conversation.
Writing this down, i know in my heart that this sort of thing is wrong, wrong, wrong, but even now, i am questioning myself and wondering if it is really me that was in the wrong. was i only thinking i was relaxed and i wasnt.. was i really looking for problems and denying i was.. was i really enjoying lunch? perhaps i was really just being ungrateful.
it's awful when you feel you want to go around with a camera or a dictaphone getting all this down and then showing it to someone else who might be able to either validate your feelings or let you know that you are indeed the one in the wrong. The most awful thing is not being able to trust him enough to believe his validation of your feelings.
oh got to go... i am feeling angry. after reading this do you think i have a right to feel angry?
an example of this for me came the other day. We were out having some food in a bar and i remarked that the place seemed to be getting full of young women, probably on their dinner break and it might be a better idea for the management to put on a girlie type TV programme rather than the football that was showing. My bf looked at me in exasperation and said.. "why don't you just try to relax and enjoy your meal instead of looking for problems".
I felt really humilliated, what made his suppose that i wasnt relaxed, i wasn't enjoying the meal and that i was looking for problems what sort of an answer was that? it wasn't even applicable to what i had just said. With those words he made it apeer as if I was being ungrateful to him for taking me out and buying me lunch, and that wasn't the thruth at all.. he totaly twisted my reality, and I wished i hadn't opened my mouth to make conversation.
Writing this down, i know in my heart that this sort of thing is wrong, wrong, wrong, but even now, i am questioning myself and wondering if it is really me that was in the wrong. was i only thinking i was relaxed and i wasnt.. was i really looking for problems and denying i was.. was i really enjoying lunch? perhaps i was really just being ungrateful.
it's awful when you feel you want to go around with a camera or a dictaphone getting all this down and then showing it to someone else who might be able to either validate your feelings or let you know that you are indeed the one in the wrong. The most awful thing is not being able to trust him enough to believe his validation of your feelings.
oh got to go... i am feeling angry. after reading this do you think i have a right to feel angry?
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No wonder I'm so F%cked up 
The examples in Ago's post are exactly the way my mother talked to me my whole entire life (and still does if I don't step in and stand up for myself).
My childhood in a nutshell.
I'd pretty much already figured this out. It does take many years of reworking one's pattern of thinking to combat the effects of the type of conditioning received as a child.
Love it when I'm with one of my old friends and my mom in the same room and she'll just look over at me and mouth "no, you're not crazy".
The examples in Ago's post are exactly the way my mother talked to me my whole entire life (and still does if I don't step in and stand up for myself).
My childhood in a nutshell.
I'd pretty much already figured this out. It does take many years of reworking one's pattern of thinking to combat the effects of the type of conditioning received as a child.
Love it when I'm with one of my old friends and my mom in the same room and she'll just look over at me and mouth "no, you're not crazy".
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i am feeling angry. after reading this do you think i have a right to feel angry?
I used to take for granted how my feelings were continually validated through normal, daily interactions with normal, healthy people. I am so grateful to be able to call that a reality again, and pray that I am wise enough now to never again take it for granted.
Be well,
at2
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No wonder I'm so F%cked up
The examples in Ago's post are exactly the way my mother talked to me my whole entire life (and still does if I don't step in and stand up for myself).
The examples in Ago's post are exactly the way my mother talked to me my whole entire life (and still does if I don't step in and stand up for myself).
Now in the throes of this breakup, my mother is still tending toward seeing his side of things instead of being on my side.
She did that when I got divorced, as well.
Some wonderful conditioning, huh?
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We all need someone to give us feedback on our feelings when we’re having a huge reaction and might go off and do something about it…but we have to do that with someone we trust and who can help us sort it out.
When your feelings are eroded, you lose your signal to how you feel. And when you lose the ability to figure out how you feel, you lose your ability to trust yourself and you lose sight of your gut instincts.
He also taught me to identify my emotions. I used to read a book to my kids called 'The Upside Down Feeling' and although the book actually promotes emotional health...it's the title that I recall the most. It's that 'funny' 'odd' 'something's not right' feeling. I was never 'told' not to feel as a child- but I picked up the unspoken rules of our home that emotions were to be hidden at all costs.
Where I need to be most watchful about this is the area of friendship. Some of my older friendships have evolved over the years, as I have changed, and they remain intact- some have not. The people that continue to give me a 'stone' instead of 'bread' in regards to my feelings, are for the most part- not in my life anymore. Some that are still present require me to place boundaries between their words and my ears.
Oddly...in the last few weeks, I've become aware of a newer 'recovery' friend who is a poster child for the topic of this thread. The gradual growing closer to this person allowed me to test and see. I'm glad I made sure that my involvement was gradual and that I guarded myself in the begining stage of friendship.
After a few conversations...I had this 'familiar' feeling!!!! Sheesh!! Before that, I just couldn't pinpoint it until I was sharing with my husband and said..."You know what? After I've spent time with her.... I feel exactly the same way as when I talk to _____. (ex-friend...who repeatedly was cold and unfeeling.)
So, there it is. The familiar feeling, in the light of recovery showed me exactly what to watch for and what to do. I'm also more aware that I could maybe miss this awareness and allow someone or something to get past my recovery radar.
Thanks Ago, for this thread.
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Wow! I'm a child of this as well from both parents.
After raling against their invalidation for so long, I have a vivid memory of approaching them after dinner one evening and telling them I would like to see a therapist (I was 13 at the time). I told them that I continued to have emotions that they repeatedly denied were there and should see someone who understood the problem. They, of course, asked what feelings I was referring to. I told them I was sad all the time, I cried myself to sleep at night, I was angry with them almost daily and felt misunderstood (These days I'd say that sounds like a lot of 13 year olds). My father's response was "It's always something with you. Go to your room."
It wasn't until college when I was out from under them that I sought a therapist through the school's health services. My parents paid the bill for it but to this day deny I ever asked for therapy or saw anyone for help. No surprise there.
Very enlightening post, Ago! Thank you!!
After raling against their invalidation for so long, I have a vivid memory of approaching them after dinner one evening and telling them I would like to see a therapist (I was 13 at the time). I told them that I continued to have emotions that they repeatedly denied were there and should see someone who understood the problem. They, of course, asked what feelings I was referring to. I told them I was sad all the time, I cried myself to sleep at night, I was angry with them almost daily and felt misunderstood (These days I'd say that sounds like a lot of 13 year olds). My father's response was "It's always something with you. Go to your room."
It wasn't until college when I was out from under them that I sought a therapist through the school's health services. My parents paid the bill for it but to this day deny I ever asked for therapy or saw anyone for help. No surprise there.
Very enlightening post, Ago! Thank you!!
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Interesting how this progresses too, starts small pushing boundaries and becomes a bigger issue where non of your emotions are treated as valid. This is bigger than substance abuse and is a tool that all that are emotionally controling will use. It is pervasive starting slowly before building. At it's worse a control freak will tell you that you're mad and you'll start to wonder if you are!!!!
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Writing this down, i know in my heart that this sort of thing is wrong, wrong, wrong, but even now, i am questioning myself and wondering if it is really me that was in the wrong. was i only thinking i was relaxed and i wasnt.. was i really looking for problems and denying i was.. was i really enjoying lunch? perhaps i was really just being ungrateful.
This is 'gaslighting'.. it takes many forms but the net result is you question yourself and feel inadequate or like you're going crazy... you start questioning your own opinions and ideas about life .. you're constantly told that your memory, experience, feeling and instinct is emphatically wrong.. eventually you start to believe it and question them yourself.. if not only to keep the peace.
My ex was a master at this... and probably a grand master at the 'blocking' and 'diverting' element of this particularly screwed up technique of emotional abuse. I didn't even know what it was until I got into therapy. But after one particular session I looked it up and lo and behold.. I'm ticking boxes galore. Once he said I'd said something and behaved in a certain way a year earlier. I knew I hadn't and he accused me of re-writing history. The subject was left but it had me wondering am I? Am I going crazy, did I say that? Later I found a text of me saying exactly what I had said.. exactly how I behaved.. and I was right and he was the one re-writing things, he was the one who had twisted it.
Eventually a gaslighter wins the war when you begin to collapse mentally and emotionally... you're so fuzzy that they could say the sky is pink and you'd look into the blueness and wonder if your eyes are working properly. And then what a particularly adept gaslighter will do is mock you for that.
Tune back into your gut and trust it.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Me too. And I never would have realized it had I not gone through therapy.
L
L
I've had two rounds of therapy. The very first time I showed up in my early thirties weeping because I had all these "perfect things" including a husband who on paper looked so good and I was miserable.
I think the first question I was asked was if I was suicidal. I responded not unless sitting in bed eating a whole box of oreos in one shot counts.
The second was why are you here. I said "Something is really wrong with me. I think I must be broken. I should be happy."
I've done a lot of work and am so much better at accepting all my feelings.
In this go around of therapy I am now working on this part:
Then act (or don’t act) on what you think and feel.
It can still be a struggle for me to enforce my boundaries in certain relationships. Friends don't seem to be a problem for me. I'm working on it and have made tremendous progress with my mother. Really more than I ever thought possible.
Romantic relationships are next ...
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I have something floating around on the edge of consciousness as related to the original post.
I don't know if I can articulate it completely yet.
I am wondering if one reason I have trouble setting my own boundaries is because I am so busy "validating" the other person in the romantic relationship.
I think I may be "validating" because it is something I have always been desperate to receive as I never received it as a child.
I don't know if I trust/want "I Love you" as much as "I validate you"
In a very simple way it is the most "generous" "loving" thing I could possibly give to some one else. It just gets me in trouble because I really need to be validating myself and not focusing so much on the other person.
I am going to have to go sit with this and let it sink in, but I think I might be on to something here.
I don't know if I can articulate it completely yet.
I am wondering if one reason I have trouble setting my own boundaries is because I am so busy "validating" the other person in the romantic relationship.
I think I may be "validating" because it is something I have always been desperate to receive as I never received it as a child.
I don't know if I trust/want "I Love you" as much as "I validate you"
In a very simple way it is the most "generous" "loving" thing I could possibly give to some one else. It just gets me in trouble because I really need to be validating myself and not focusing so much on the other person.
I am going to have to go sit with this and let it sink in, but I think I might be on to something here.
Su**endering...
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"I have a headache.", "Yeah, me too"
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
I don't know if that is abuse or not. I know I am guilty of doing it. A LOT. For me it is an attempt to relate to the other person...as if just saying "I understand" isn't enough... I don't know if that makes it right or wrong. I don't think it is invalidating...maybe just a misguided attempt at empathy?
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
I don't know if that is abuse or not. I know I am guilty of doing it. A LOT. For me it is an attempt to relate to the other person...as if just saying "I understand" isn't enough... I don't know if that makes it right or wrong. I don't think it is invalidating...maybe just a misguided attempt at empathy?
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Hmmm....that may vary from person to person...for me personally, I don't see it as clearly abuse or clearly empathy, but very dependent on the intentions of the person responding.
I have a friend in each camp: One, when she says "Oh, yeah, me too" she really means, "Hey, let's turn the spotlight on me where it belongs"
Another, when he says, "Oh, me too" he's attempting to find common ground with the speaker, show that he understands how they're feeling - "Here, I'll show you - I feel it too!"
I prefer the latter....you can WORK with that, explore better ways to empathize.
Hugs, everybody
I have a friend in each camp: One, when she says "Oh, yeah, me too" she really means, "Hey, let's turn the spotlight on me where it belongs"
Another, when he says, "Oh, me too" he's attempting to find common ground with the speaker, show that he understands how they're feeling - "Here, I'll show you - I feel it too!"
I prefer the latter....you can WORK with that, explore better ways to empathize.
Hugs, everybody
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
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"I have a headache.", "Yeah, me too"
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
As Fsquared said i believe the above can be someone trying to relate.
I believe it can be abusive when someone is mocking, because they are invalidating you are really these thing, hurt,sick,etc.
When one is the person who it always sharing their woes and trying to be the center of attention, i believe that this as a sarcastic response is at the least an unhealthy communication habit. On the switch ,( i think what tone your were communicating is when you say something about yourself and the listener usually has to have a similiar story too and it has to often "one up" whatever experience you shared) my mom can be like this. I don't see it as abusive. I think it has more to do with the person who wants to be heard. Sometimes they are just sharing a memory, can be someone who tends to be selfcentered or likes to be the center of attention, someone who is overly competetive, someone who finds their significance somehow in this behavior, maybe wanting to be recognized.
Overall I think people who have a pattern of doing this in conversation issue is with themselves. It definitely can be unhealthy, and i guess it could cross over into abuse if their purpose was to invalidated your experience.
I find it is something I can let go, except the person for who they are, and listen to them. I also have no problem saying "okay back to my story." They usually are happy to listen. As i have been writing this i am recalling just how many people I do know like this.:-) And to be honest when my mother really gets going with this we joke and then say to her," Well, now i have a story that one ups that." She knows she does it now and we who live with her have matured to just except it and actually enjoy the usually 'repeated' experience about her,"Well, i have had the worst headache ever." I know longer have feelings of being "irked" by this behavior like I did when i was younger.
"I have the oddest rash..", "So do I"
"I've been having a strange thing happen, and I've been hesitant to mention it since it sounds so crazy.", "Oh me too, I've got the exact same thing."
As Fsquared said i believe the above can be someone trying to relate.
I believe it can be abusive when someone is mocking, because they are invalidating you are really these thing, hurt,sick,etc.
When one is the person who it always sharing their woes and trying to be the center of attention, i believe that this as a sarcastic response is at the least an unhealthy communication habit. On the switch ,( i think what tone your were communicating is when you say something about yourself and the listener usually has to have a similiar story too and it has to often "one up" whatever experience you shared) my mom can be like this. I don't see it as abusive. I think it has more to do with the person who wants to be heard. Sometimes they are just sharing a memory, can be someone who tends to be selfcentered or likes to be the center of attention, someone who is overly competetive, someone who finds their significance somehow in this behavior, maybe wanting to be recognized.
Overall I think people who have a pattern of doing this in conversation issue is with themselves. It definitely can be unhealthy, and i guess it could cross over into abuse if their purpose was to invalidated your experience.
I find it is something I can let go, except the person for who they are, and listen to them. I also have no problem saying "okay back to my story." They usually are happy to listen. As i have been writing this i am recalling just how many people I do know like this.:-) And to be honest when my mother really gets going with this we joke and then say to her," Well, now i have a story that one ups that." She knows she does it now and we who live with her have matured to just except it and actually enjoy the usually 'repeated' experience about her,"Well, i have had the worst headache ever." I know longer have feelings of being "irked" by this behavior like I did when i was younger.
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Andrew, I love gems like this. Thank you for sharing.
It's spot on.
And reminding me of some conversations that continue to haunt me:
Talking to the XAH a few years ago about a subject dear to my heart - gender inequality. My undergrad degree was in sociology.
The AH mocked me, defended himself, and as a result, invalidated everything I said. He does this A LOT.
Listening is a fine art. It takes awareness and practice. It means being able to reflect back what someone is telling you. For the most part, people don't want answers or advice. They simply want to be HEARD.
It's spot on.
And reminding me of some conversations that continue to haunt me:
Talking to the XAH a few years ago about a subject dear to my heart - gender inequality. My undergrad degree was in sociology.
The AH mocked me, defended himself, and as a result, invalidated everything I said. He does this A LOT.
Listening is a fine art. It takes awareness and practice. It means being able to reflect back what someone is telling you. For the most part, people don't want answers or advice. They simply want to be HEARD.
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