GUILTY...Survey
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Because as codependant people we feel we should be taking care of them. They know how to push buttons and get what they want.......THAT was my thinking before therapy and lots of reading on this site. I no longer feel guilty not doing something for any person that can do it for themselves.......No more Guilt here!!!
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Our A's do not make us feel guilty. They try to disempower us by saying things that they hope will wear on our confidence; they try to intimidate us by doing crazy and sometimes violent things; they try to throw us off balance by constantly calling into question what we know is real and true; and they try to justify their own behavior and give themselves excuses to drink and drug by finding fault with us and blaming us for their problems.
But, we choose whether or not we allow any and/or all of this BS to work. I think a much better and more helpful question to be asking is: "Why do we allow our A's to guilt us out?"
freya
But, we choose whether or not we allow any and/or all of this BS to work. I think a much better and more helpful question to be asking is: "Why do we allow our A's to guilt us out?"
freya
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Because I felt responsible for my daughter's disease. Even after accepting I was not, I still felt it creeping up on me once in a while because it had become a habit for me. Eventually I started asking myself "why am I allowing her to make me feel guilty?" It helped me look at things differently and freed me from guilt.
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Well I have such a co-dependent kind heart and he knows it..... and takes advantage of it! He likes to tell me all the things that other people do to him that he doesn't like so then I tread lightly on those things! But, now I realize that those people do those THINGS because of his actions. His actions are the cause of their reactions!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by UNHAPPY777 
Well I have such a co-dependent kind heart and he knows it..... and takes advantage of it!
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They are such cowards........ He has my mind playing tricks on me all of the time. Thinking WELL maybe he's not on drugs... Boy do I hate thinking this. But a friend on SR helped me to somewhat realize that it doesnt matter what it is ITS WRONG!!!!!!!
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Nor was my abf. But he is now -and thats were I have to keep focused - on now - how I am now- what his actions are; how I let being involved in it affect my emotional state.
If I remind myself how it WAS years ago , that does nothing but make me feel really sad about the loss,, if i focus on now, I can tell myself clearly 'this is not acceptible to me" and it helps me to stay away from it.
x
If I remind myself how it WAS years ago , that does nothing but make me feel really sad about the loss,, if i focus on now, I can tell myself clearly 'this is not acceptible to me" and it helps me to stay away from it.
x
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I would ask why would you allow yourself to be the guilty party, unless you were...
And that master manipulator stuff, oh one doesn't have to play the game along with them...I don't think the codie side of this is all that different at times, most are just as good manipulators as the addicts in thier lives, but the excuse of I am trying to safe them makes it work quite well in ones head.
We also tend to teach them so well where the lines can be crossed, what they can say and or do to get us to give in...
And that master manipulator stuff, oh one doesn't have to play the game along with them...I don't think the codie side of this is all that different at times, most are just as good manipulators as the addicts in thier lives, but the excuse of I am trying to safe them makes it work quite well in ones head.
We also tend to teach them so well where the lines can be crossed, what they can say and or do to get us to give in...
Last edited by incitingsilence; 06-03-2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: spelling
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incitingsilience.......
I know that I am not guilty and I would never give him the feelings that I am guilty of anything. If one thing I am guilty of is loving a man who at the present time doesn't deserve or honor love(he doesn't have the ability right now). But, my inquiry was more so of a internal feeling that I verbalized here on this site. And by being a master manipulator he is playing a game but, our love keeps us sincere. Love is often blind and when those blinders are completely lifted we no longer need to have questioned answered. I truely do believe I am an intelligent woman same as others of you here on the site are.......but, right now I'm in a bad situation that I didn't cause. It is truely up to me to get out but, every situation has a time and place as does his using. I didn't chose this life and believe me I am truely ready for change and please note the "I".
I don't think that our manipulation is one that is all the time bad. My husband use to say that I was controlling. When he first started using he said oh now you don't have any control....My response was and still is "NOW NEITHER DO YOU"
The point is I don't think codies play games .......but I do believe that we are pawns in the game. This is LIFE and all of us if we had known would have choosen a different path. Never at all do I think this is a game and I sure don't want to play after having to pick up all the pieces for my children and myself! We as codies do draw lines but, just as addicts have moments of clarity and regret so do we. Codies are people who love hard a long and it's sad that in today's society, we have to be dictated to by addicts on how to feel and why we have to change. Everyone always gives the advice here that "nothing changes if nothing changes". We can't change them but, because of their behavior we must change ourselves. Is that really fair. I have concerned this situation for a while and I think that being a good person with a great heart sometimes gives of the label of "CODIES". For some yes it fits but, others we are just learning LIFE!
Im sorry if I rambled and didn't make much sense but, I feel like some of us are looked at as being weak but in reality we are actually STRONG. It takes a strong person to go through what we've been through and still come out standing. Now on the other hand there is a time when we can be labled as WEAK.....Thats when we have exhausted all of our energy and we still stay.........Thats when the roles reverse and then we become the COWARDS.
Thanks for listening
I know that I am not guilty and I would never give him the feelings that I am guilty of anything. If one thing I am guilty of is loving a man who at the present time doesn't deserve or honor love(he doesn't have the ability right now). But, my inquiry was more so of a internal feeling that I verbalized here on this site. And by being a master manipulator he is playing a game but, our love keeps us sincere. Love is often blind and when those blinders are completely lifted we no longer need to have questioned answered. I truely do believe I am an intelligent woman same as others of you here on the site are.......but, right now I'm in a bad situation that I didn't cause. It is truely up to me to get out but, every situation has a time and place as does his using. I didn't chose this life and believe me I am truely ready for change and please note the "I".
I don't think that our manipulation is one that is all the time bad. My husband use to say that I was controlling. When he first started using he said oh now you don't have any control....My response was and still is "NOW NEITHER DO YOU"
The point is I don't think codies play games .......but I do believe that we are pawns in the game. This is LIFE and all of us if we had known would have choosen a different path. Never at all do I think this is a game and I sure don't want to play after having to pick up all the pieces for my children and myself! We as codies do draw lines but, just as addicts have moments of clarity and regret so do we. Codies are people who love hard a long and it's sad that in today's society, we have to be dictated to by addicts on how to feel and why we have to change. Everyone always gives the advice here that "nothing changes if nothing changes". We can't change them but, because of their behavior we must change ourselves. Is that really fair. I have concerned this situation for a while and I think that being a good person with a great heart sometimes gives of the label of "CODIES". For some yes it fits but, others we are just learning LIFE!
Im sorry if I rambled and didn't make much sense but, I feel like some of us are looked at as being weak but in reality we are actually STRONG. It takes a strong person to go through what we've been through and still come out standing. Now on the other hand there is a time when we can be labled as WEAK.....Thats when we have exhausted all of our energy and we still stay.........Thats when the roles reverse and then we become the COWARDS.
Thanks for listening
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Originally Posted by incitingsilence
I would ask why would you allow yourself to be the guilty party, unless you were...
...
...
When dealing with addiction, you see physically the person PRE addiction, and then you are stareing at somewhat a stranger.
When the 'addiction' causes the behavior that is a 'strangers' actions, NOT that of the person you loved, you react to that.
SOMEWHERE along the way, the person you LOVE shows up for a minute or two, does or says SOMETHING that remindes you of everything they were to you, (your innocent child, or your loving spouse, or your charming funny girlfriend/boyfriend, or a parent that coddled you at one time.)
When those memories flood back into your mind, it washes over the behavior that occured because of the addiction, and you begin to think that YOU overreacted, or that YOU are too demanding, or that YOU were too demanding, or that YOU are too judgemental.
This is why guilt sets in. NOT because you are guilty, but because you are confused, sad, bewildered, ashamed, hopefull, hopeless, scared, tired, and the list goes on and on.
It is a process, that will continue until the person has moved into the next 'stage' in recovery. (in my opinion).
I used to feel 'guilty' all the time, I felt like I was harsh, or bitter tounged with such a wounded puppy of an abf.
NOT anymore. It little, by little, and I mean LITTLE BY LITTLE (like a solid year now) has faded.
When I engage in any interaction that with my abf that USED to lead to me feeling 'guilty' or 'wrong', I shrug my shoulders and walk away. I don't feel the least bit guilty any longer.
I think that what used to provoke MY guilt, was FEAR. Fear that I said something, did something, that might finally push him away. That he wouldn't get better, or WORSE- he might blame me as he EXITED my life.--- oh no, I couldn't handle that.
BUT that was then, this is now. If he leaves now, god bless him, and don't let the door hit ya in the a**!
This is not to say that I'm not still struggeling, or that I don't experience 'pain' any longer. However, there is finally no guilt or fear attached to my experience with my addict.
Hope this clarifies for unhappy what I believe this 'guilt' is comprised of.
(and these are just my opinions, from my own very long painful journey).
Love,
Cess
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The point is I don't think codies play games .......but I do believe that we are pawns in the game
See I am beyond this - I did allow myself to be played in this game. All the while believing in him and what use to be. That is part of MY problem is the self hatred from his addiction. Like I've read so many times before here on this site - many codies say that their friends or families are astonished that us codies would put up with this. My bff has said 'Callie, you'd rip my a$$ up oneside and down the other if I EVER put up with this.' So true, but you'll never know what you'd truely do until you've walked in my shoes.
See I am beyond this - I did allow myself to be played in this game. All the while believing in him and what use to be. That is part of MY problem is the self hatred from his addiction. Like I've read so many times before here on this site - many codies say that their friends or families are astonished that us codies would put up with this. My bff has said 'Callie, you'd rip my a$$ up oneside and down the other if I EVER put up with this.' So true, but you'll never know what you'd truely do until you've walked in my shoes.
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Thank you for your responses! And like you Cessy I am little by little gaining ME back. I'm actually not changing just getting an old friend back. The old me like I said before would not have put up with this.......Now as I slowly gain her back things are getting better!
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Btw, I am the wife of a heroin addict, and the mother of a crack/oxy addict both in recovery …
This is how I feel, after a long journey that I can’t define as painful because it isn’t there anymore, maybe as it shouldn’t be…
To me nothing in the end looked even remotely as it did in the beginning when emotional havoc was running the show, when fear and resentment set all the reactions. And all those reactions we have are so important, we can learn so much in them for us…we also teach through them where exactly our line can be crossed and this is way beyond addiction.
I was advised very early on to question my reasons and need to react, rather than react…
You did write unhappy that he takes total advantage of your codependent and kind heart…I would still question why would you let him…
You also wrote…. I find it is. I most certainly didn’t like the manipulation game when it was used on me, and I certainly didn’t like myself much when I was playing the same with all these nifty excuses that came down to me trying to control the situation. With worry and fear running the show, with anger and resentment as well…
And in the same post….why does he not deserve your love. ..
In general I see so much oh I love ( fill in blank ) when they are clean and soon as they use…nope no love now …what a rollercoaster ride…And there is so much if they could just be as they were before…hmmm wasn’t before part of the problem as well.
Another questions is the rollercoaster ride self inflicted, to me it is because I could opt out at anytime. And that never had anything to do with my husband and if he was or wasn‘t using. It also didn’t have much to do with staying or leaving….
But if it was that simple, everyone would be sane…It was as complicated as I made it…Acceptance, letting go, and give back what wasn’t mine to begin with, and the damn work….ahh there is peace in that, sweet wonderful peace!
Have a good night.
This is how I feel, after a long journey that I can’t define as painful because it isn’t there anymore, maybe as it shouldn’t be…
To me nothing in the end looked even remotely as it did in the beginning when emotional havoc was running the show, when fear and resentment set all the reactions. And all those reactions we have are so important, we can learn so much in them for us…we also teach through them where exactly our line can be crossed and this is way beyond addiction.
I was advised very early on to question my reasons and need to react, rather than react…
You did write unhappy that he takes total advantage of your codependent and kind heart…I would still question why would you let him…
You also wrote….
I don't think that our manipulation is one that is all the time bad.
And in the same post….why does he not deserve your love. ..
In general I see so much oh I love ( fill in blank ) when they are clean and soon as they use…nope no love now …what a rollercoaster ride…And there is so much if they could just be as they were before…hmmm wasn’t before part of the problem as well.
Another questions is the rollercoaster ride self inflicted, to me it is because I could opt out at anytime. And that never had anything to do with my husband and if he was or wasn‘t using. It also didn’t have much to do with staying or leaving….
But if it was that simple, everyone would be sane…It was as complicated as I made it…Acceptance, letting go, and give back what wasn’t mine to begin with, and the damn work….ahh there is peace in that, sweet wonderful peace!
Have a good night.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I so understand what you are saying, unhappy. When we love someone, we want more than anything for them to be happy. We want to do anything and everything to ensure that. When they hurt, we hurt, and we want to fix them. Unfortunately, when you're talking about addicts, there is no fixing them. There is nothing we can do until they are ready to help themselves. They will play on our feelings and make promises and lie and use every devious method to get what they want. And we love them. So, we try to believe them. Then, when they are miserable again, they blame us for not fixing them, or helping them, or whatever. So we try again and again until we are so worn out and frustrated that we finally say ENOUGH!!! The addict acts so surprised and hurt. How can you do this to me? I have a disease! How can you just shut me out? I NEED YOU!!!
Yep, we love them and we feel guilty because we can't fix them.
Yep, we love them and we feel guilty because we can't fix them.
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First, I am sorry that you are going through sooo much![QUOTE=incitingsilence;2249067]
You did write unhappy that he takes total advantage of your codependent and kind heart…I would still question why would you let him…
The point is I don't let him anymore but, at one point not too long agao I did. But, I.m not going to allow him to mess up some of my good qualitys that others may benefit from... The word "CHANGE" I didn't change in the marriage he did so why should I. Now I understand that I shouldn't allow him to take advantage there is a difference.
….why does he not deserve your love. ..
He does have my love and I would have to say right now he wouldn't know love if it came up and slapped him in the face. One day he told me "I want to love you but, I don't love me right now"...........So maybe the terminology was wrong but, the concept is still the same.
Thank You for your response
You did write unhappy that he takes total advantage of your codependent and kind heart…I would still question why would you let him…
The point is I don't let him anymore but, at one point not too long agao I did. But, I.m not going to allow him to mess up some of my good qualitys that others may benefit from... The word "CHANGE" I didn't change in the marriage he did so why should I. Now I understand that I shouldn't allow him to take advantage there is a difference.
….why does he not deserve your love. ..
He does have my love and I would have to say right now he wouldn't know love if it came up and slapped him in the face. One day he told me "I want to love you but, I don't love me right now"...........So maybe the terminology was wrong but, the concept is still the same.
Thank You for your response
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