Future Together?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 61
Future Together?
I'd been posting over at the newcomers thread but think its time I jumped over here. I'm marrried almost 10 years to my wife and have three small children. Wife has been in an outpatient center 2 weeks yesterday and seems to be doing well. Yesterday as part of the program I had to go into her group and do an "intervention", telling her all of the qualities that made me fall in love with her and how her drinking has affected the family in kind of a question and answer format. It's kind of long, but I'm going to post it because afterwords I have some real conflicting feelings about where I go from here. If anyone can get through it and has any feedback it would be greatly appreciated, I don't have anyone else to talk to:
What qualities do I most admire?
I admire (wife's) good heart. I admire (wife's) capacity to help other people. I admire (wife's) courage in finally facing this problem and taking ownership of it to help herself.
When did I first become concerned?
My first concern came when we lived in Charlotte and she didn’t work and you started drinking during the day. It wasn’t very often, and neither of us really wanted to be there in the first place so I lived with it. I remember picking my mom up from the airport for a visit. We got home and (wife) was giving (oldest boy) a bath, clearly drunk damn near toppling over, which we all kind of ignored. She’s always had issues with my family coming to visit. When we moved back to Chicago and the behavior changed for a period of time I chalked it up to not being happy with her lifestyle. When that behavior came back, drinking during the day, often on the phone with people that would tell me how out of it she sounded I knew there was a problem.
What behaviors did I notice?
I noticed an amplified reaction to your general state of mind, either a general to severe dissatisfaction with life or the lovey dovey euphoria when she was at a high point. There was not much in between. It seemed to come and go in six month intervals. She’d be incredibly down for six months and drink a lot. Then things would get better, wouldn’t drink as much and was very loving even when she did. Over the past 3 to 5 years she would either pick a fight and say incredibly mean things to me or she would want to drop everything and go upstairs and make love. More often than not it was a fight.
Did I share with anyone else how I felt? How did I deal with my concerns?
Not really. I’m a fairly private person and prefer to keep our differences in house. My sister would ask how things are going, and I’d hint around the edges of general unhappiness when things weren’t going well. The more Lesley would drink and dial I think it became more apparent to others, however nobody else really approached me and I didn’t approach them. I dealt with it by drinking with her. I’m not going to lie, I like to drink. I probably drink (drank) too much with her.
Did I attempt to share my concern with her? What was her response?
We talked quite openly about the need to curb our drinking. Not necessarily about being an alcoholic and checking into treatment, but cutting down our drinking. I made very, very clear to her that I will not tolerate her drinking during the day. There’s too much that can go wrong with the kids and I spoke about leaving her if it continued. She knew it was the wrong thing to do, and said she’d stop, but she never did.
Did you become aware of any of the signs of the progression? Again, drinking during the day is a real warning sign, then she started to lie to me about it. I know the tone of her voice when she’s drinking, and on a few occasions she flat out told me that she wasn’t drinking earlier in the day. Her tolerance decreased dramatically over the past 6 months. The night we went to dinner with the (friends) and she passed out on the couch and everyone else was pretty well fine was a signal. The night my sister was over that last weekend, she was **** housed at 4pm. Either she was drinking earlier in the day and lying about it or she was drunk off of 3 glasses of wine. She shucked the corn, then asked me at least 3 or 4 times in the hour after that what side dish I would like to have with the main course. The next morning is when my sister and her husband confronted me and I confronted (wife). They were rightly concerned about the children. I knew all along that (wife) stops drinking, I stop drinking so I was hesitant to make that confrontation. I couldn’t hide it anymore. She agreed that she had a problem and would seek help, so here we are.
Specifically share the behaviors I experienced while under the influence.
Anger. Mean-spirited shots taken at me and others. Telling me that I don’t give a **** about my children. Accusing me of cheating on her. Luring me up to bed, getting me going, then suddenly stopping, apparently to show me who’s boss or just to mess with me.
Horrible judgment with the children. Took them to the grocery store in their pajamas and left them in the car while she went in for a bottle of wine. Sat them on top of the minivan while she washed the car. Promised them to do things she couldn’t remember the next day. Tried to help them with their homework while blind drunk. Picked fights with me in front of them.
I began to lose total faith in her decision making abilities on things as simple as making dinner when she was drinking as this thing progressed.
How has our relationship changed? I became her caretaker both at home and when we went out. I would wonder what was going to come out of her mouth next. I’ve had to send her to bed on a number of occasions because the she was passed out in front of the kids. She becomes very opinionated when drinking. She has said offensive things to family and friends when drinking. It’s been a real role reversal since the early days when I was nicknamed “trainwreck” by some friends. She is now the train going off the rails.
Experiences related to use that generated the following feelings (anger, sadness, shame, loneliness, fear, embarrassment) All of the above emotions apply when it comes to the breakdown of our marriage. There have been many, many times that I really questioned whether we were going to make it, and whether it would be worth it if we did. (Wife's) alcohol use, coupled with psychological issues such as depression at the least and perhaps much much more than that have made me feel like a punching bag over the better part of the past ten years. I guarantee if we didn’t have kids we would not be together right now. That makes me angry. That makes me sad. That makes me ashamed, lonely, fearful, and embarrassed that the biggest challenge of my life has been a failure for myself, my wife, and my children. (Wife) says that one of the first things that drew me to her was she sensed a quality of loyalty in me. I believe that to be true. But if you remember the bad times, that seems to come about every 6 months, there’s only so much loyalty I am able to commit going forward.
Closing: Share how I feel about the present, presence in treatment, and commitment to recovery:
I am very proud of you for taking this step. I blame myself for letting it get this far. I helped you get to the point of no return, and I will never forgive myself for that. I believe that you are committed to sobriety, and even though getting sober is no challenge compared to staying sober, I believe that you can and will do it. I don’t know what our life is going to be like in the future. Right now, it seems like we are going to be little more than roommates. I hope that’s not the case.
I also urge you to get help for your emotional issues outside of drinking. This rollercoaster you have been on started long before your binge drinking, which only magnified your highs and lows. Your mothers sickness and ultimately the death of both of your parents has obviously been incredibly difficult for you, as it would anyone, and I don’t think you’ve been able to come to terms with it the proper way yet. Medication might level you out for a while, but ultimately it will only mask deeper seeded issues. I am concerned about your overall well being, not to mention your sobriety next time you go into another one of the cyclical “funk” periods
What qualities do I most admire?
I admire (wife's) good heart. I admire (wife's) capacity to help other people. I admire (wife's) courage in finally facing this problem and taking ownership of it to help herself.
When did I first become concerned?
My first concern came when we lived in Charlotte and she didn’t work and you started drinking during the day. It wasn’t very often, and neither of us really wanted to be there in the first place so I lived with it. I remember picking my mom up from the airport for a visit. We got home and (wife) was giving (oldest boy) a bath, clearly drunk damn near toppling over, which we all kind of ignored. She’s always had issues with my family coming to visit. When we moved back to Chicago and the behavior changed for a period of time I chalked it up to not being happy with her lifestyle. When that behavior came back, drinking during the day, often on the phone with people that would tell me how out of it she sounded I knew there was a problem.
What behaviors did I notice?
I noticed an amplified reaction to your general state of mind, either a general to severe dissatisfaction with life or the lovey dovey euphoria when she was at a high point. There was not much in between. It seemed to come and go in six month intervals. She’d be incredibly down for six months and drink a lot. Then things would get better, wouldn’t drink as much and was very loving even when she did. Over the past 3 to 5 years she would either pick a fight and say incredibly mean things to me or she would want to drop everything and go upstairs and make love. More often than not it was a fight.
Did I share with anyone else how I felt? How did I deal with my concerns?
Not really. I’m a fairly private person and prefer to keep our differences in house. My sister would ask how things are going, and I’d hint around the edges of general unhappiness when things weren’t going well. The more Lesley would drink and dial I think it became more apparent to others, however nobody else really approached me and I didn’t approach them. I dealt with it by drinking with her. I’m not going to lie, I like to drink. I probably drink (drank) too much with her.
Did I attempt to share my concern with her? What was her response?
We talked quite openly about the need to curb our drinking. Not necessarily about being an alcoholic and checking into treatment, but cutting down our drinking. I made very, very clear to her that I will not tolerate her drinking during the day. There’s too much that can go wrong with the kids and I spoke about leaving her if it continued. She knew it was the wrong thing to do, and said she’d stop, but she never did.
Did you become aware of any of the signs of the progression? Again, drinking during the day is a real warning sign, then she started to lie to me about it. I know the tone of her voice when she’s drinking, and on a few occasions she flat out told me that she wasn’t drinking earlier in the day. Her tolerance decreased dramatically over the past 6 months. The night we went to dinner with the (friends) and she passed out on the couch and everyone else was pretty well fine was a signal. The night my sister was over that last weekend, she was **** housed at 4pm. Either she was drinking earlier in the day and lying about it or she was drunk off of 3 glasses of wine. She shucked the corn, then asked me at least 3 or 4 times in the hour after that what side dish I would like to have with the main course. The next morning is when my sister and her husband confronted me and I confronted (wife). They were rightly concerned about the children. I knew all along that (wife) stops drinking, I stop drinking so I was hesitant to make that confrontation. I couldn’t hide it anymore. She agreed that she had a problem and would seek help, so here we are.
Specifically share the behaviors I experienced while under the influence.
Anger. Mean-spirited shots taken at me and others. Telling me that I don’t give a **** about my children. Accusing me of cheating on her. Luring me up to bed, getting me going, then suddenly stopping, apparently to show me who’s boss or just to mess with me.
Horrible judgment with the children. Took them to the grocery store in their pajamas and left them in the car while she went in for a bottle of wine. Sat them on top of the minivan while she washed the car. Promised them to do things she couldn’t remember the next day. Tried to help them with their homework while blind drunk. Picked fights with me in front of them.
I began to lose total faith in her decision making abilities on things as simple as making dinner when she was drinking as this thing progressed.
How has our relationship changed? I became her caretaker both at home and when we went out. I would wonder what was going to come out of her mouth next. I’ve had to send her to bed on a number of occasions because the she was passed out in front of the kids. She becomes very opinionated when drinking. She has said offensive things to family and friends when drinking. It’s been a real role reversal since the early days when I was nicknamed “trainwreck” by some friends. She is now the train going off the rails.
Experiences related to use that generated the following feelings (anger, sadness, shame, loneliness, fear, embarrassment) All of the above emotions apply when it comes to the breakdown of our marriage. There have been many, many times that I really questioned whether we were going to make it, and whether it would be worth it if we did. (Wife's) alcohol use, coupled with psychological issues such as depression at the least and perhaps much much more than that have made me feel like a punching bag over the better part of the past ten years. I guarantee if we didn’t have kids we would not be together right now. That makes me angry. That makes me sad. That makes me ashamed, lonely, fearful, and embarrassed that the biggest challenge of my life has been a failure for myself, my wife, and my children. (Wife) says that one of the first things that drew me to her was she sensed a quality of loyalty in me. I believe that to be true. But if you remember the bad times, that seems to come about every 6 months, there’s only so much loyalty I am able to commit going forward.
Closing: Share how I feel about the present, presence in treatment, and commitment to recovery:
I am very proud of you for taking this step. I blame myself for letting it get this far. I helped you get to the point of no return, and I will never forgive myself for that. I believe that you are committed to sobriety, and even though getting sober is no challenge compared to staying sober, I believe that you can and will do it. I don’t know what our life is going to be like in the future. Right now, it seems like we are going to be little more than roommates. I hope that’s not the case.
I also urge you to get help for your emotional issues outside of drinking. This rollercoaster you have been on started long before your binge drinking, which only magnified your highs and lows. Your mothers sickness and ultimately the death of both of your parents has obviously been incredibly difficult for you, as it would anyone, and I don’t think you’ve been able to come to terms with it the proper way yet. Medication might level you out for a while, but ultimately it will only mask deeper seeded issues. I am concerned about your overall well being, not to mention your sobriety next time you go into another one of the cyclical “funk” periods
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Welcome here, 9Iron.
The word "loyalty" jumped out at me.
This is the hook that keeps many men in abusive marriages and keeps many men from protecting their children from an abusive parent, as your wife is.
This also jumped out:
"I blame myself for letting it get this far."
Once your wife became an alcoholic, her primary and obsessive goal in life became GETTING MORE ALCOHOL. She would have--and has--done anything to protect her drinking, and short of rewiring her brain yourself, there is NOTHING you EVER could have done to stop her.
Again, welcome, and you will get tremendous support here. Don't give up and above all, NEVER think you caused this or could have cured it.
The word "loyalty" jumped out at me.
This is the hook that keeps many men in abusive marriages and keeps many men from protecting their children from an abusive parent, as your wife is.
This also jumped out:
"I blame myself for letting it get this far."
Once your wife became an alcoholic, her primary and obsessive goal in life became GETTING MORE ALCOHOL. She would have--and has--done anything to protect her drinking, and short of rewiring her brain yourself, there is NOTHING you EVER could have done to stop her.
Again, welcome, and you will get tremendous support here. Don't give up and above all, NEVER think you caused this or could have cured it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
It's not clear to me what your own relationship to alcohol is from the information in this post, but depending on that, the responses would vary broadly.
At the very least, it seems you really enjoy drinking and would resent giving it up, so being married to an alcoholic is structurally an incompatibility, from a practical standpoint.
At the other end of the spectrum, there would be nothing to be said, if you were on your own path down the progression of developing alcoholism. Everything in this case would begin with you dealing with THAT alcoholism.
We have no way of knowing, based on this information. This would be for you to determine, for yourself, of course.
Just pointing out a few perspectives,
CLMI
At the very least, it seems you really enjoy drinking and would resent giving it up, so being married to an alcoholic is structurally an incompatibility, from a practical standpoint.
At the other end of the spectrum, there would be nothing to be said, if you were on your own path down the progression of developing alcoholism. Everything in this case would begin with you dealing with THAT alcoholism.
We have no way of knowing, based on this information. This would be for you to determine, for yourself, of course.
Just pointing out a few perspectives,
CLMI
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 61
Thanks for the input, BlueJay.
As I wrote out what I was going to say to her, took a macro view of the past rather than the micro view of the present, I was really shocked at how much I have gone through with her. The only time I could get her to tell me what she was thinking and why she was mad at me for periods on end was when she had a few drinks. Not a lot of drinks, mind you, that's when the arguments got out of control. A few drinks and she would open up. That option is now off the table. Now that she's in recovery, we don't speak about anything except about general day to day stuff. Because of the rules of the center, I can't even talk to her about what was said yesterday for 72 hours, after which time emotions will wear off and we won't have a meaningful discussion about it. I feel like I've lost her. Not the using alcoholic wife, of course, I'm happy to lose her. I feel like I've lost the woman I married. I so desperately want things to go back to normal, but there is no normal to go back to.
As I wrote out what I was going to say to her, took a macro view of the past rather than the micro view of the present, I was really shocked at how much I have gone through with her. The only time I could get her to tell me what she was thinking and why she was mad at me for periods on end was when she had a few drinks. Not a lot of drinks, mind you, that's when the arguments got out of control. A few drinks and she would open up. That option is now off the table. Now that she's in recovery, we don't speak about anything except about general day to day stuff. Because of the rules of the center, I can't even talk to her about what was said yesterday for 72 hours, after which time emotions will wear off and we won't have a meaningful discussion about it. I feel like I've lost her. Not the using alcoholic wife, of course, I'm happy to lose her. I feel like I've lost the woman I married. I so desperately want things to go back to normal, but there is no normal to go back to.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 61
CLMI
I don't know where my path leads with alcohol myself. I stopped drinking the same day she did and haven't really had any thoughts of breaking that. I've done a lot of thinking about my own situation. Step 1 in AA is to admit that one is powerless over alcohol and one's life has become unmanageable as a result. I am not powerless, as I decided to quit with her and have, so I have that power over alcohol. My life seems unmanageable right now over the effects of my wife's alcohol use. Do I resent the fact that she can't just drink like a normal person? I sure do. Just being honest. If I continue on drinking could I have a problem down the road? I can't say with certainty I will not, but I don't think that I am an alcoholic today.
I don't know where my path leads with alcohol myself. I stopped drinking the same day she did and haven't really had any thoughts of breaking that. I've done a lot of thinking about my own situation. Step 1 in AA is to admit that one is powerless over alcohol and one's life has become unmanageable as a result. I am not powerless, as I decided to quit with her and have, so I have that power over alcohol. My life seems unmanageable right now over the effects of my wife's alcohol use. Do I resent the fact that she can't just drink like a normal person? I sure do. Just being honest. If I continue on drinking could I have a problem down the road? I can't say with certainty I will not, but I don't think that I am an alcoholic today.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: South GA
Posts: 67
You are, however, powerless over the person who is controlled by alcohol in your life. By fighting against this, my life became unmanageable. I'm over 90 days sober, but that doesn't matter because I'm not affected by the disease of alcoholism.
Welcome and read on, it helps.
Welcome and read on, it helps.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I so desperately want things to go back to normal, but there is no normal to go back to.
I doubt there are very many people here on this board who don't mourn the same thing.
It took a lot of guts to post this, and I admire your courage to do it.
The question is, what will your New Normal look like? Can you imagine the changes you will have to make as individuals and as a couple? What evenings will be like, what special events will be like, how you'll need to change how you interact? Can you build this new normal in your head, not with anger but with...curiosity? Creativity? And can you picture yourself happy in that New Normal? (those aren't rhetorical questions, by the way
)I have had to rebuild my projected future several times because of alcoholism, and each time I dreaded it, with a knot the size of a baseball behind my sternum.
I was able to get through these overhauls by focusing on myself rather than on "them." My goals, my dreams, my self-worth, what I wanted MY life to be like from dawn to dusk - and taking the focus off their choices.
Hard? Yeah, of course it is. If they weren't important to us, we wouldn't bother being in a place like this, would we? But between SR, Al-Anon, private counseling, and lot of self-examination, I have not just survived, but have grown as well. My life is a hundred times happier than before.
I'm glad you're here with us. There are an awful lot of people here who know the grief you're going through.
Take care of yourself.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hi 9Iron-
Thanks for posting this-- each of those questions are really helpful in sorting out thinking.
I am amazed at the instant secrecy that accompanies alcoholism in families! It is like the #1 symptom! So I am glad you are reaching out here and hopefully you will also seek some local face to face help either AlAnon or counseling. Both of those things helped turn my head around.
The past is gone- you are free in this moment - the way to "normal" for you and your children is for you to focus on yourself and your own recovery from this warped chapter of your life.
I urge you to find ways to discuss the truth with your children-- shame and secrecy are the bread and butter of this disease and these "habits of mind" form pretty quickly in the minds of young children and can infect their future growth and relationships for years and years...
Good luck - keep posting-
b
Thanks for posting this-- each of those questions are really helpful in sorting out thinking.
I am amazed at the instant secrecy that accompanies alcoholism in families! It is like the #1 symptom! So I am glad you are reaching out here and hopefully you will also seek some local face to face help either AlAnon or counseling. Both of those things helped turn my head around.
The past is gone- you are free in this moment - the way to "normal" for you and your children is for you to focus on yourself and your own recovery from this warped chapter of your life.
I urge you to find ways to discuss the truth with your children-- shame and secrecy are the bread and butter of this disease and these "habits of mind" form pretty quickly in the minds of young children and can infect their future growth and relationships for years and years...
Good luck - keep posting-
b
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