Olra

Hi Everyone,

I joined almost a year ago. I haven't posted. I live with all my trauma until it gets to the point where I can't deal with things anymore and then I go to ONE Alanon meeting, feel better and don't go again for months. Well, that is stopping right NOW. I am going to start attending at least once a week. I hope I am posting this in the right area...sorry in advance if I chose poorly.

My qualifier is my boyfriend. In September we will be together 2 years and have this AMAZING relationship...except when we don't! He has been sober 5 1/2 years. I have attended 2 of his anniversaries with great pride. I go to open meetings with him. He whole-heartedly supports me going to Alanon and he treats me GREAT.

You know what they say: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! First a quick note about my BF: we do not live together. We stay at each other's places maybe twice a week. Three times if I don't have my kids (I am divorced 6 years and share custody). Things will be going so well with us. He will buy me flowers every time the vase is empty. He will be telling me he loves me at the end of phone conversations, when I am leaving to go home, after we *you know*. And then like a light switch, he suddenly stops telling me. If I say it, he will say "Thank you, baby" or pretend he doesn't hear me. He suddenly does Internet searches to try to find a new house. He will be upset about wanting a new job but be too scared to really pursue anything because his pay would be cut so much. Basically, he completely pulls away from me emotionally.

The first few days I ignore it. The next few days I start to pull back myself and when he visits, we have nothing to say to each other...it is really awkward. Another week might go by and I will be psyching myself up to talk to him about it and he ALWAYS go to me before I go to him. "Is everything OK, baby?" And I cry and basically throw up everything I have been feeling for days or weeks. He tells me it isn't me but that when he feels "this way" (I am assuming, restless, irritable and discontent), he has a hard time telling me he loves me. He tells me he loves me "to the best of his ability" and that "everything is not about YOU...this is about MY fears. Why do you take everything so personally?"

Fair enough. I do internalize everything. (I read "The Intimacy Struggle" and realized that although no one in my family drinks, I have pretty much every "feature" an adult child of an alcoholic has. I grew up with what I guess one could call a rage-a-holic.) But, I don't know how I can't. He is literally pulling the rug out from beneath me every time I start to get comfortable with him and feel like this could last forever. And just to be fair, even when he is not telling me he loves me, he is SO good to me. He helps me all the time, he keeps his promises, he will still hug me and kiss me (although not passionately). So, his ACTIONS say I love you. But, there is this DEFINITE wall up between us.

Any help with the above would be GREAT!

But, now on to what I really signed on for tonight. My 11 year old son. He is an alcoholic waiting to turn 21. He talks about drinking CONSTANTLY. He tells me what his first drink will be (insisting he won't have one until he is 21 so he will only have to wait 10 years), he will pretend he is drunk. He lies. He is a MASTER manipulator. He claims he can find the loop-hole in any argument and he CAN. He brags to his friends about things. He worries constantly about what others think of him.

My BF says he sees himself in my son and he tries to pay attention to him when they are together. He gives my son good experiences (and fun) and that pleases me to no end. But, they aren't together more than max 4 days a month (and my BF has issues with that sometimes. He likes my kids but he never wants to be a father and last weekend we spend the whole weekend with him (at his suggestion) and after the weekend (he didn't smile at me the WHOLE WEEKEND) we had a kinda sorta argument and he said "I know they have a father but I still feel like I didn't sign on for this." He then said it was probably that he is not at all used to spending so much time with kids...especially overnight at his house)) so that is not a whole lot of help.

My BF does not want his anonymity broken so I can't tell my son his story or bring up recovery-type things. Especially since he hasn't even had a drink yet! So, what I am looking for is something for kids...maybe a book of Anecdotes that have the steps and the slogans, etc... in the stories so that I can sit and read them with him but so that he doesn't even know that it has anything to do with 12 steps or recovery. Just stories with lessons and morals. Any suggestions? I have done a whole lot of Googling to no avail.

Thank you in advance for ANY comments and help you can provide.

Freedom1990

First of all, I am glad you finally decided to post.

Now I'm going to ask you a question. Do you think this 'relationship' with your BF impacts your son at all?

Also, where is all this talk of alcohol coming from in regards to your son? Does his father drink?

I'll comment further after a little more information from you, if you don't mind. If you don't want to answer my questions, I'll respect that too.

:ghug :ghug

Daisy30

Welcome!! We are glad you are here

Good for you making a commitment to go to al-anon! It has CHANGED my life! I love the person I am today b/c of the program.
Have you educated yourself about the disease (aside form AA)? There are some great books listed in the "classic reading" section of this forum.

I had those same thoughts/questions as Freedom reading you post.

The only thing I can comment about has nothing to do will Alcholism really, but as a mother myself (I was a single mother too), why do you want to date someone who does not want to take on the responsibility of your child?
I always felt dd and I came as a package deal She is an extention of me. kwim?

Olra

Thank you Freedom and Daisy for replying! Here are my answers:

A. Sure I think my relationship with my BF impacts my son...in a positive way. He is very calm, he takes time to talk with him. He does fun things with us. And when my son gets out of line, he talks to him calmly and comes up with stuff to say to him that I could never think to say!

B. You know, I never thought to ask where he was getting all the alcohol talk. I assumed it was from health class because he seems to know every kind of sin known to man based on discussions in health class! I am always so floored by what comes out of his mouth that I don't say much. I am like a deer in headlights.

C. Does his father drink? Well, for the 15 years we were married, we never even brought down the alcohol that sat up on the shelf during parties. Occasionally I would serve beer but it was a rarity. No reason (neither of us are alcoholics), it just wasn't necessary since none of our families really drink. Since the divorce, I HAVE seen alcohol in the house. I was surprised by how much. But, I don't think it is HIM that is drinking it. I think it is his GF. I say this because he moved in with her for a year (they have since moved back to separate houses) and I went to visit and the entire island in the kitchen was one big carnival of liquor. I have mentioned to him that he should keep the alcohol locked up. He didn't do it. I don't live there anymore (I left) so I don't really have much control as to what goes on there. My house is completely dry.

D. I read the Intimacy Struggle. I occasionally read the daily reading books (i have like 5 of them), I read the Big Book, I have been going to AA meetings for 2 years with my BF and last night I started reading "Paths to Recovery: Al Anon's Steps Traditions and Concepts." So, I'm not sure if I should answer your question yes or no. I obviously have been TRYING to educate myself.

E. My BF and I have been together almost 2 years and things with the kids were fine. They live with their father, which is an arrangement that works well for us (he works from home and has a woman who watches them and cleans, etc...). My BF and I try take everything really slowly because we both have a history of leaving when it gets tough. So with each new bump in the road, it takes us time to deal with things. It was his suggestion that the kids and I stay over and do all this fun stuff together. He was shell shocked at the amount of work kids take (ha ha!). He is used to a quiet, serene house. This was only last weekend that this happened so I wouldn't just dump him because of his reaction. He said we are going to do it again and it will just take him some time to get used to things. He said it was the first time he has spent that kind of time with kids. Believe me, when he said that to me ("didn't sign on for this") I didn't take too kindly to it. I was very upset. But, we talked through it. So, I wouldn't say that I am looking to date a guy not willing to take on the responsibility of my kids. This was something that came up and needs to be worked through.

What is dd and kwim? Thanks!

And, again, thank you for your responses!! I will check out the Classic reading section now but if there is something you think I should be reading, I will gladly take your advice.

Freedom1990

I would encourage you to please start attending Alanon on a regular, consistent basis-even once a week as you stated. A book I also suggest as a starter is "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. She has several books and they have helped me so much.

I can't help but wonder if your son's talk of alcohol isn't stemming from when his dad and the gf lived together from what you've described.

My youngest daughter grew up around the rooms of AA as I've been in recovery for many years now. She will be 21 this month. I wish there was something that would guarantee our kids don't go down the road of alcoholism, but there isn't.

What I've found is by working my own program of recovery (codependency/alcoholism/addictions), my girls have watched what I do. I lead by example, if that makes sense.

My 20 year has dabbled with alcohol. Both her father and I are recovering alcoholics. We have talked and she is aware that the odds are high she will go down that road if she continues to mess with alcohol.

Is there an Alateen group in your area that your son might be able to attend?

I hope you continue to post and let us know how you are doing. Again, I am so glad you posted!

:ghug :ghug

bluejay6

Welcome Olra, and you'll find that Al-Anon book very helpful.

My instincts tell me your son feels left out at BOTH households. Both couples are not full incorporating him and he is left outside the circle. That is a very lonely and painful experience for a child and the child will then act out in ways to try to gain attention that pulls him into the circle.

Please forgive my bluntness, but I think you have two little boys, not one. Your BF sounds like a fine guy as long as things are going his way, on his terms, do not require too much sacrifice of his wants, and do not require a mature adult commitment. And his moods completely dictate whether you have a good day or a bad day with him. Still all about him.

They say alcoholics are big babies, and so far, I think he's still in diapers. Time to man up.

And you, sweetie, are obviously loving and kind and malleable. When you begin to draw serious boundaries, the relationship will be tested. And so will you.

Again, Welcome. Everyone here supports your growth. We are all trying to get well and stay well!

Daisy30

Thanks for taking the time to answer and clarify

The al-anon literature are all great readings.

I think it is great that you have read the big book!!
Some books that helped me understand alcoholism in the beginning are "Marriage on the Rocks" and "Getting Them Sober" (Amazon has them both)
"The Language of Letting Go" is fabulous. It is a daily reading.
of course Courage to Change and Hope for Today (al-anon)

I also think that possibly your x's gf may be where he is getting the "drunk" behavior from. Have you talked to your X about it? It sounds like a conversation that needs to be had She may be glorifying "drunkenness" ie, parties are big fun, he may get more freedom when she is drinking, everybody is so happy and goofy, etc.

Have you sat down and had a heart to heart with him about the reality of drinking? How it can be dangerous? I think he is just seeing the "fun" side of it.

oh and kwim = Know What I Mean and DD = dear/(darling) daughter

Keep posting!!here! There is a lot of Experience Stregnth and Hope here!

Olra

Thank you again for your responses.

Last night I got "Co Dependent No More" on CD from the library so I can listen to it in my car. I own Courage to Change and Hope for Today and that is what we read in Alanon. And I did go to an Alanon meeting last night and even shared! *patting myself on the back*

BlueJay: You are right. My BF is probably a baby on some levels. But, I can't judge him and I can't rush him. My friends MARVEL at what our relationship was like in the beginning and where it has progressed to now. He does come around. It just takes him longer than the average guy. And, I don't mind because I have been involved with average guys and they do not hold a candle to his kindness, patience, expressiveness, honesty and helpfulness. He is on a journey and so am I...he is WORLDS ahead of me in being able to deal with things in a relationship and that is why it throws me so off balance when he ISN'T able to deal with something. It is like "OMG...if HE can't handle it, what shot do I have?!!" But, I guess that is when I have to have faith. The key to what you wrote is how HIS moods effect my moods, etc... THAT is what I want to stop. And I am assuming that THAT is what co-dependence is and what the book will try to snap me out of? (I haven't listened to the CD yet...just got it last night!)

As for feeling left out of both relationships, that is totally likely. The divorce hit him hard. But, I do everything I can to keep him involved. My BF texts him and calls him out of the blue. On Mother's Day, they had a whole covert operation going to surprise me with an all day outing...that definitely made my son feel a part of. I come from a divorced home as well and I know it sucks. I'm doing my best.

Daisy: Ever have one of those moments where you just smack yourself in the head and are like "DUH!" Such a simple suggestion "Have you talked to your ex?" Um...why, no, it never even came up as an option in my mind! LOL I had kind of ignored that possibility because I knew I couldn't break my BF's anonymity. But, when I was reading what you wrote, I was thinking that I COULD bring it up just as "I have noticed A, B & C about things that he says...." and not make it AT ALL about my BF, but about MY observations. I will talk to him about it soon.

And I will also ask my son some questions the next time he gives me the "drunk show."

Thank you all so much!

TakingCharge999

I was thinking that I COULD bring it up just as "I have noticed A, B & C about things that he says...." and not make it AT ALL about my BF, but about MY observations.

My mom is an elementary teacher and had to fight a lot with parents, LOL. She told me that very same technique, its very effective, not finger-pointing or blaming, just keeping it about YOU and what YOU observe... no one can refute that. Good luck, let us know how it goes!!

BTW you sound very commited to your recovery, good for you. I am glad you are in SR

Daisy30

I have them all the time

and usually someone on this board is the one who helps me see it...lol

Olra

I am feeling so good today. Thank you all for your kind words and help!

I listened to a good portion of CD one of Co-Dependent No More and it is very interesting. I can't wait to get to the heart of the book!

Daisy30

Good for you!!! It is amazing how we feel when we put the focus back on us

cassandra2

I just wanted to add that since you are a reader I would recommend getting Men are from Mars and Woman are from Venus.

From what you wrote it sounds very familar to what is being described in that book. I found it very helpful because it was very descriptive about the roles men and woman play in relationships. The pulling away is what stood out for me. The book goes into great detail about that.

Sorry to hear about what is happening with your son. I dont have anything to say but to keep loving him and help him through whatever he is going through.

Good luck.....

Olra

Hi all,

I spoke to the woman who lives in the house with my ex and kids. We were "girly talking" and I made mention of the my ex's gf's drinking and she seemed GENUINELY surprised that I would say that and said she has never seen her drink.

So, I thought about it and remembered that her mother was living with her in the house also when he moved in. Maybe it is her mother's alcohol? Whatever. The mystery will be solved when my ex returns from vacation and I can talk to him and get it sorted out.

"Men are from Mars and Woman are from Venus" I will put it on the list! THANK YOU!

:-)

Olra

Hi everyone,

I wanted to give you a little update:

A. Freedom: I am on the last CD of Co-Dependent No More. It IS going to be life-changing! I feel like someone who has been sick from some mystery disease and have now finally been given a diagnosis and I can do something about it. It gave me the courage to have a heart to heart talk with my BF and I told him a few things that I knew might freak him out so I hadn't told him (but they had been tormenting ME because I was keeping my mouth shut). He took it all well. It was my first step to treating him like a "big boy" and not worrying about what he was going to think to my detriment. So a BIG thank you for suggesting it.

B. I ordered Codependents Guide to the 12 Steps, Fear of Letting Go and The New Co-dependency last night. And went to another Alanon meeting tonight. I have been feeling really good the past few days. Even after my "talk" with my BF, when I began torturing myself the next morning, I did convince myself after about an hour that I did the right thing by speaking with him AND that I did not need to apologize for anything because I had done nothing wrong...if he was going to get scared and run, that was HIS problem. It really empowered me. And you know what? He DID get scared but he is still with me and there is a contentment that hasn't been around in a few weeks.

C. I asked my son where he gets all his information about alcohol. His answer SHOCKED me!! Turns out when he was living with my ex and the girlfriend, it wasn't HER that was drinking but her 13 year old son! He said he had to put the kid to bed drunk a few nights. (the child is the reason they aren't living with the GF anymore...I didn't hadn't known what he did that was so bad that it would make my ex want to move out) I then asked about all the alcohol on the counters (I posed the question like "Oh, did he have access to the alcohol because it was on the counter? I saw a lot of alcohol on the counter when I visited") and he said "Oh, that was only there that night because they were having a grown-up party the next day." So, Daisy, thanks for suggesting I talk about it...went to my son instead of my ex but it was a very constructive talk.

My BF suggested the kids come over again on Sunday and he seems much more relaxed about it this time. He was here tonight joking around with the kids and seems a little more at ease. AND he booked a 5 day vacation for us in the next few weeks so things are on an upswing which is nice because it gives me a chance to really read and get things in line for when the downswing inevitably occurs.

Thanks again to everyone!