If Nothing Changes, Nothing Changes
Attitude of Gratitude
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
If Nothing Changes, Nothing Changes
First of all, I would like to point out that everything that I am saying in this thread is out of genuine care & concern. I realize that some words may sound harsh, but if you could hear the sincerity in my voice & see the care & concern in my eyes, you would known where this is coming from.
Lately I have noticed more and more newcomers & those who are repeatedly relapsing asking for help, yet finding one reason or another why the different suggestions they are given won't work. I read more and more people who flat out refuse to give AA or NA a chance. "It isn't for me, I know it won't work, I'm not religious, I don't do well in groups of people . . . " I'm not saying the AA or NA is the answer for everyone, but these two Programs of Recovery have literally saved the lives of millions of people, me being one of them. When I first put myself into treatment back in 1980, when I was fresh out of high school, AA was a part of the Program. I fought, kicking and screaming, I wasn't "one of those people." I hadn't gotten any DUI's, my license hadn't been suspended, my using didn't cause me a divorce (how could it, I was only 18 !) I had no kids to turn their backs in disgust on me and even though I'd already had a handful of jobs, I was never fired from any.
Then let's fast forward to 10 - 12 years later. Divorced, lost a mess of jobs, been to the Penetentiary once, ex threatening to fight for custody of our Son. Been in car wrecks, but luckily was never given any field sobriety tests. So I decided to go to AA and NA. . . but I was just physically there. I just knew that all of this talk of God and a Higher Power crap wasn't going to work for me. How many times had I prayed, asking God to get me out of this mess or that disaster that was a result of my using and He never listened. And there was no way that I was going to admit that I was powerless, I was there to regain control of my life and they wanted me to say I'm powerless? Yeah, right! And a sponsor, like I was going to tell another woman my inner secrets. For one thing, I did not get along with other women. And if I did find someone I felt I could talk to, once I told her all the stuff I did, she'd tell everyone how sick and twisted I was and run like hell.
Let's go to 2005, shall we? I'd been to prison again. Second divorce had been finalized about 4 years earlier. My Son chose to go live with his Dad 5 years earlier. I couldn't hold a job to save my life. I'd been going to Meetings (physically) off and on since 1980 and they hadn't done sh*t for me. I was suicidal. But I was too afraid to attempt it seriously because I knew that I'd screw that up like I did everything else in my life and I'd be stuck in a nursing home the rest of my life, wearing diapers, laying in a fetal position not knowing who I was. So I began a screaming at God. How could He have let all of this happen to me? I dared Him, IF He were truly there to do something to help me. I was extremely dope sick, been trying to get into detox but I'd been there so many times in the past they didn't want to take me. Long story short, I woke up the next morning, still dope sick, but for the first time in my life I felt like there was hope. I had surrendered. I told God that I'd "give Him one more chance." That morning, July 25, 2005, I was accepted into detox and I told the Dr. and nurses there to tell me what to do and I would do it. I didn't care what it was. I was willing to go to any length to get clean and stay clean so I could move into Recovery. I called the local AA office and asked for women to call me at the hospital. Four women showed up the next day with a Big Book, Meeting schedule and their phone numbers. I felt particularly closer to one and asked her to be my temporary Sponsor. The day I got out of detox, I went to 3 Meetings. I didn't even go home first, I went straight to the Meetings. I hadn't showered in about 8 days (remember, it was the end of July) but I felt staying clean that day was more important than being clean. I had lost my license years ago, but I rode buses around the city of Dayton, nothing was going to keep me from going to my Meetings. This was my life I was talking about! Nothing ever kept me from getting high or drunk so nothing was going to keep me from staying clean that day and the day after and the day after and the day after . .
The bottom line is, if you came here asking for help, please don't dismiss what people are suggesting. What have you got to lose? Except self loathing, shame, anger, hurt, feeling worthless, lost and alone. I glady lost those things when I surrendered and was willing to go to any length. Because if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Thank you for taking the time to read this & God Bless,
Judy
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,491
Hi SerenityQueen,
I think a lot of people relapse many times before recovery works for them. I spent at least a year, trying and failing, again and again.
My recovery has been an amazing journey. I am so grateful to be where I am today. I am not an AA person, but have depended on books and SR to show me the way to live a peaceful, sober life. I agree that people should do whatever it takes for them to stay sober.
I think a lot of people relapse many times before recovery works for them. I spent at least a year, trying and failing, again and again.
My recovery has been an amazing journey. I am so grateful to be where I am today. I am not an AA person, but have depended on books and SR to show me the way to live a peaceful, sober life. I agree that people should do whatever it takes for them to stay sober.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Good post. I always think it is a mistake when someone rejects AA because of the steps related to belief in a higher power. I know that turns a lot of people off, but many of those same people who are rejecting AA have never stepped into an AA room.
Which is a shame, because if they did step in a room or two, try a meeting or two, they would discover quite quickly that God is not pushed in the rooms, staying sober is.
I've been going to meetings for a year and not once has anyone tried to impose their version of spirituality on me, in any way shape of form. Nor have I ever been to a meeting where the talk has centered around believing in God.
I have been to a lot of meetings where people have announced that they are athiest and that they consider the fellowship of AA to be their higher power.
Which is a shame, because if they did step in a room or two, try a meeting or two, they would discover quite quickly that God is not pushed in the rooms, staying sober is.
I've been going to meetings for a year and not once has anyone tried to impose their version of spirituality on me, in any way shape of form. Nor have I ever been to a meeting where the talk has centered around believing in God.
I have been to a lot of meetings where people have announced that they are athiest and that they consider the fellowship of AA to be their higher power.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
and at the same time I agree with anna. Just as you said, for years.......I know for me, it was years.Your post is WONDERFUL though Serenity!!!!! It took me a very long time to realize that if "nothing changes, nothing changes." Thank you for sharing such a strong message!!
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by joedris 
Well said. A lot of people post here because they want sympathy, not solutions. If they wanted solutions, they wouldn't make up so many excuses.
Joedris - did you ever have a relapse? Did you figure out your "solution" right away? If so, good for you! I just don't think everyone is that fortunate...
Mr.MeToo?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: East Coast to the Deep South
Posts: 828
Hrmmmmm , I know your heart is in the right place judy, as I have known you since I first became a member of this site but I am not sure what the point of this post is.
AA and NA alike are programs that have thrived through attraction rather than promotion. While it is upsetting to see many newcomers reject the program, they must walk their own path. We should not be angry or upset with these people. You spoke in your post about how from 1980 (time of your first treatment) until 2005 you yourself had kept rejecting the program even though so many others kept assuring you it was the right path to go down.
When I first got clean at 21 I also rejected the program and got into a cycle of relapsing, getting a physical habit, getting dopesick, detoxing in my house, feeling good for a about 2 weeks and then relapsing again. This cycle went on for me for almost a year and a half until I started to embrace the program.
We also cannot forget that the human mind is complex and unique. What works for one might not work for another. I know a few people from SR who are wonderful awesome guys that each have 5 + years clean without working a program and I am thrilled for them. They truly are happy. I wish I could have been like that but, it just wasnt an option for me.
Like that old saying, you can guide a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink.
just my 2 cents ~~ scott
AA and NA alike are programs that have thrived through attraction rather than promotion. While it is upsetting to see many newcomers reject the program, they must walk their own path. We should not be angry or upset with these people. You spoke in your post about how from 1980 (time of your first treatment) until 2005 you yourself had kept rejecting the program even though so many others kept assuring you it was the right path to go down.
When I first got clean at 21 I also rejected the program and got into a cycle of relapsing, getting a physical habit, getting dopesick, detoxing in my house, feeling good for a about 2 weeks and then relapsing again. This cycle went on for me for almost a year and a half until I started to embrace the program.
We also cannot forget that the human mind is complex and unique. What works for one might not work for another. I know a few people from SR who are wonderful awesome guys that each have 5 + years clean without working a program and I am thrilled for them. They truly are happy. I wish I could have been like that but, it just wasnt an option for me.
Like that old saying, you can guide a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink.
just my 2 cents ~~ scott
Last edited by ex D-Boy; 05-29-2009 at 04:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by joedris
Well said. A lot of people post here because they want sympathy, not solutions. If they wanted solutions, they wouldn't make up so many excuses.
I agree.
And CALYNN, I don't believe Joe's post was directed at you or anyone in particular, nor do I think he suggests he found the solution right away.
At times (unfortunately) I do indeed see the same people keep doing the same things and keep achieving the same unsuccessful results using the same excuses about what "won't work for them because they refuse to ________". (Fill in the blank.) Stick around you'll see some of them too, and you can help them find the way.
I tell them ALL to keep coming back, I keep encouraging them to try something new, I keep hoping they will succeed.
Keep coming back!
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by ex D-Boy
Hrmmmmm , I know your heart is in the right place judy, as I have known you since I first became a member of this site but I am not sure what the point of this post is.
AA and NA alike are programs that have thrived through attraction rather than promotion. While it is upsetting to see many newcomers reject the program, they must walk their own path. We should not be angry or upset with these people. You spoke in your post about how from 1980 (time of your first treatment) until 2005 you yourself had kept rejecting the program even though so many others kept assuring you it was the right path to go down.
When I first got clean at 21 I also rejected the program and got into a cycle of relapsing, getting a physical habit, getting dopesick, detoxing in my house, feeling good for a about 2 weeks and then relapsing again. This cycle went on for me for almost a year and a half until I started to embrace the program.
We also cannot forget that the human mind is complex and unique. What works for one might not work for another. I know a few people from SR who are wonderful awesome guys that each have 5 + years clean without working a program and I am thrilled for them. They truly are happy. I wish I could have been like that but, it just wasnt an option for me.
Like that old saying, you can guide a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink.
just my 2 cents ~~ scott
AA and NA alike are programs that have thrived through attraction rather than promotion. While it is upsetting to see many newcomers reject the program, they must walk their own path. We should not be angry or upset with these people. You spoke in your post about how from 1980 (time of your first treatment) until 2005 you yourself had kept rejecting the program even though so many others kept assuring you it was the right path to go down.
When I first got clean at 21 I also rejected the program and got into a cycle of relapsing, getting a physical habit, getting dopesick, detoxing in my house, feeling good for a about 2 weeks and then relapsing again. This cycle went on for me for almost a year and a half until I started to embrace the program.
We also cannot forget that the human mind is complex and unique. What works for one might not work for another. I know a few people from SR who are wonderful awesome guys that each have 5 + years clean without working a program and I am thrilled for them. They truly are happy. I wish I could have been like that but, it just wasnt an option for me.
Like that old saying, you can guide a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink.
just my 2 cents ~~ scott
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: far away from the ocean
Posts: 376
I completely agree with Calynn. I am also new here, only 40 days sober and I didn't come here for sympathy. I wanted to know more about breaking the addiction cycle and different ways people tried to achieve that. I am not going to discuss here why I decided not to go to AA. But so far SR has given me a lot of support and encouragement and with time I hope to find my own way of healing. I believe there is no cookie-cutter solution to every problem. I respect that some people feel very passionately about AA but I also expect that other people will respect my recovery choices that might be different from theirs.
To thine own self be true
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 756
Originally Posted by CALYNN
That's so true Scott. A lot of the people I know turned to an addiction because their head was "a mess". Same thing with me - I started drinking to self-medicate my anxiety and depression. It definitely didn't help the problem (at all), just added another one. At the time though, I didn't care & didn't realize I would end up an alcoholic (thought it would be short term until my problems were resolved) - all I wanted was a way to numb myself. It's taken me five years to figure that out. A lot of wasted time, but I'm glad I finally did - again, because it gives me a starting point. In my case, AA isn't my starting point - the first was detox and now I'm working on getting my A/D to a manageable level so I can take the next step. Everybody's different...
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by tommyk
I agree.
And CALYNN, I don't believe Joe's post was directed at you or anyone in particular, nor do I think he suggests he found the solution right away.
At times (unfortunately) I do indeed see the same people keep doing the same things and keep achieving the same unsuccessful results using the same excuses about what "won't work for them because they refuse to ________". (Fill in the blank.) Stick around you'll see some of them too, and you can help them find the way.
I tell them ALL to keep coming back, I keep encouraging them to try something new, I keep hoping they will succeed.
Keep coming back!
And CALYNN, I don't believe Joe's post was directed at you or anyone in particular, nor do I think he suggests he found the solution right away.
At times (unfortunately) I do indeed see the same people keep doing the same things and keep achieving the same unsuccessful results using the same excuses about what "won't work for them because they refuse to ________". (Fill in the blank.) Stick around you'll see some of them too, and you can help them find the way.
I tell them ALL to keep coming back, I keep encouraging them to try something new, I keep hoping they will succeed.
Keep coming back!
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Sweets79
Wow I identify with alot of things you are saying Calynn, especially the part about drinking to relieve anxiety and depression...I also have been drinking for 5 years, so everything seems so different now...I'm only sober a month and a few days and I've only attended a few AA meetings which were part of my Intensive Outpatient Program. Like I said in another post, alot of weirdos at the particular one I attended. Now, I'm looking to try the all women's AA meeting and see how that goes...I'm also looking for either another group or one on one therapy with a qualified therapist. Good therapists are hard to find, so that's going to be another endeavor.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
I am 5 months without a drink and 5 months into tinkering with the things underlying the drinking problem that need to be addressed. I have never done a meeting, although I do read lots of stuff here and have read most of the recovery books in my local library. I promised myself the first day I quit and found this site that if "my way" didn't work, I would try ANYTHING til something stuck. I think that s the point of the OP. So many come in here with such pain and talk about why plan A, B and C won't work for them, but they are hurting and what ever they are doing is also not working. Rather than rejecting a treatment program and staying in the life of an addict, KEEP TRYING! Try AA, smart recovery, counseling, yoga, exercise, praying, research, will power, what ever you can think of and if none of those work, try them all again until one sticks.
If you just keep trying the same method over and over and over again and its not working, try something new. If you just keep not trying anything because you believe that nothing will work you, you will be right.
If you just keep trying the same method over and over and over again and its not working, try something new. If you just keep not trying anything because you believe that nothing will work you, you will be right.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Regardless of which program or recovery path we take, or our opinions about what *might* work, or *wont*.. I don't believe true recovery can be achieved until a person is willing to do ANYTHING to get and stay sober. Hell.. we've done just about anything to get our drink/drug and maintain a false sense of control. Openmindedness is so critical when trying to find the way to sobriety, recovery, and a better life.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Originally Posted by uglyeyes
I am 5 months without a drink and 5 months into tinkering with the things underlying the drinking problem that need to be addressed. I have never done a meeting, although I do read lots of stuff here and have read most of the recovery books in my local library. I promised myself the first day I quit and found this site that if "my way" didn't work, I would try ANYTHING til something stuck. I think that s the point of the OP. So many come in here with such pain and talk about why plan A, B and C won't work for them, but they are hurting and what ever they are doing is also not working. Rather than rejecting a treatment program and staying in the life of an addict, KEEP TRYING! Try AA, smart recovery, counseling, yoga, exercise, praying, research, will power, what ever you can think of and if none of those work, try them all again until one sticks.
If you just keep trying the same method over and over and over again and its not working, try something new. If you just keep not trying anything because you believe that nothing will work you, you will be right.
If you just keep trying the same method over and over and over again and its not working, try something new. If you just keep not trying anything because you believe that nothing will work you, you will be right.
Much better stated than my bumbling few sentences! Amen, sista
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
i get it serenity queen.
i can see your frustration and sometimes sorrow to watch newcomers go out again.. time after time.....as i did.
it took me lots of "research" to realize that i could not stop drinking by just stopping drinking.
i see newcomers on here time and time again doing the same thing..
hoping to remain sober by just remaining sober.......dont get me wrong i think alot manage it..........but i personally think that the majority dont.
BUT we or "me" can only share my experience with it..... maybe some need to go out again to smash any notion that they can drink with any element of control.
i know i needed to.......i needed to smash all notions of "control"..
rid myself of any lurking notion of drinking like i once did.
i cant surrender for people...........i only wish i could.. because i lost friend while they try to get to grips with booze..
As for coming here for head stroking and sympathy.........sure some people do.
they are not at fault......just sick...imo.
i do get your frustration...........but you have a great message to give newcomers........keep doing it..
i personally enjoy your posts..........keep up the good work miss.
i can see your frustration and sometimes sorrow to watch newcomers go out again.. time after time.....as i did.
it took me lots of "research" to realize that i could not stop drinking by just stopping drinking.
i see newcomers on here time and time again doing the same thing..
hoping to remain sober by just remaining sober.......dont get me wrong i think alot manage it..........but i personally think that the majority dont.
BUT we or "me" can only share my experience with it..... maybe some need to go out again to smash any notion that they can drink with any element of control.
i know i needed to.......i needed to smash all notions of "control"..
rid myself of any lurking notion of drinking like i once did.
i cant surrender for people...........i only wish i could.. because i lost friend while they try to get to grips with booze..
As for coming here for head stroking and sympathy.........sure some people do.
they are not at fault......just sick...imo.
i do get your frustration...........but you have a great message to give newcomers........keep doing it..
i personally enjoy your posts..........keep up the good work miss.
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