Rainbowsend

We hear a lot on here about people that have had multiple A's in their lives.

I don't think this is the whole picture with regard to co dependency and wondered what others experiences were? Please share if you are comfortable doing so, I don't want to put my neck on the line as the only one

My history:

4 long term relationships.

1: Physically abusive, put me down to get me where he wanted me then beat me. (wondered at 1st if it was my fault, I wasn't good enough; he told me often enough how wonderful he was I believed it, I began to believe his self publicity)

2: Alcoholic but excused it as youth/ right of passage (He was 20 when I recognised it).

3: Emotionally unavailable (high functioning undiagnosed Aspergers but not my place to diagnose) This was an emotional rebound from the sex drugs and rock & roll of 2nd (father of my children) Very aloof with an inflated sense of his station in life (Plumber, not a bad trade but hey his ideas of how he should be viewed by society were quite amazing)

4: Repeat of 2nd (same guy) Very sweet when sober, wondered if it was just a right of passage and he was over it but sooooo wasn't.

I don't think co dependency is all about picking people with substance abuse problems but took me coming here to recognise it.

elusivehope

I sort of know how you feel. I dated a guy for like a year and a half who was addicted to alcohol, cocaine, heroin, and i dont know what else. He even stole and I knew about it. However I stayed with him because (1) i had awful self-esteem and thought this was the best i could do (2) was incredibly depressed and (3) he told me he would kill himself if i left, and i took him seriously since he had attempted it several times before.

I was with him through 2 hospitalizations, after which he got just as bad again. I still beat myself up about staying with him. I think it was all my fault. He semi-abused me, as in pushing me further sexually then i wanted to go and not respecting me at all. He also encouraged me to become bulimic (which i did), landing me in a mental hospital for that and severe suicidality. All in all it was hell, however, I am not sure I would be alive if he had not pushed me to that point and then he was the one who told me to go to the hospital. Eventually there was a huge altercation, and he stalked me for several months. Meanwhile, I met my current bf who I have been dating for 14 months who treats me better than anyone else.

I say all this for a few reasons. One, I know where you're coming from, and you DO NOT deserve to be treated like this. It is NOT YOUR FAULT and never has been. I think i chose him because it was what i was used to at home (my mom abuses alcohol and emotions are NOT allowed). However, I have been blessed to find someone who lives me and people who are there to take care of me.

I think that getting help from a therapist and a support group should help you. However, ultimately you have to learn to respect yourself enough to not accept people treating you badly.

Wishing you the best
Elusivehope

suki44883

Thanks for posting that, Anvil. I see myself all up in there.

Rainbowsend

But I'm getting there, I KNOW it's learned behaviour.
It's not always your mothers fault (mine is my best ally, love her to bits and my best support system) but social conditioning.

Listening to my mother tell me "but all men are like that" really helps me. I point out that we know many men where that isn't the case but she still finds that difficult to comprehend. She gave up on relationships in her mid 40's (she was still very attractive and independent in spite of the stress of relationship issues but very poorly health wise which I believe was related)

As for me, hey it's tricky, still atracting A's but spotting them before a date. Single for a year and super fussy but what the heck, rather that than miserable

TakingCharge999

Also social conditioning from men...
Lately I have talked with many coworkers, all of them are male, and this is what they tell me:

- we are ALL the same
- marriage for us is free sex, free maid, there's nothing else there
- we will always think women are inferior (:rotfxko)
- we will always cheat, sooner or later
- we will always drink, take drugs, whatever
- we are all wired this way
- as you will marry a jerk anyway (otherwise, he is an hypocrite and you have not noticed yet), better look for someone with $$, so at least you get his money when he dies (actual quote, LOL)

:wtf2

Ago

Ummm.......that would be......No, on all counts

I mean I know a lot of men, and we share a number of qualities that are less then stellar as viewed from a woman's point of view, none of those qualities are on this particular list.

Of course another title for this thread could be just "Codependents and Alcoholics"

LaTeeDa

I don't know. I think maybe codependent or ACOA was convenient for me because it was something descriptive. Something I could grab onto like--AHA, so that's what's wrong with me!

But, I don't think that it covers it all. I mean, sure, a lot of it came from my childhood, my parents. But, a lot of it came from society in general. I grew up in a world where women were 'less than' men. Not in obvious, outward ways. But, in unspoken, covert ways. My parents reinforced the idea and modeled it for me, but so did the songs/movies/advertising and general attitudes. Things have changed over the past 40 years, but it's still there in a lot of ways. Magical thinking is pervasive. Couple that with dishonest, emotionally repressed family environment, and it is a recipe for disaster.

I see the same attitudes and thinking all around me, and I doubt they're all alcoholics or codependents.

L

Rainbowsend

But it's all about US. Being strong, not putting up with rubbish or second best and getting into the mindset that we don't need a man (partner for the male posters).

I'd love to do hearts and flowers (romantic at heart) but it takes time (lots) to find someone emotionaly responsible and available enough to even contemplate that with. OMG soooo fussy now and far less to trade But that's good.

Always said that when in a job no one could pay me enough to be miserable and the same relates to relationships.

LaTeeDa

I totally agree with you Rainbowsend. I just think we tend to look at the world in terms of 'most people are normal and I am messed up.' Really, I think the kind of problems I have are more the rule than the exception. In other words, what we are striving for--recovery--is not just being 'normal.' It is quite exceptional.

L

Ago

I actually couldn't agree more

So called "normal behavior" is so ABnormal that I have NO idea why they call it that.

I just call it "healthy" behavior now, mental health is by far the minority, so it's anything but "normal".

The only thing about about that, is I use the terms "mental health" and "mental illness" and folks tend to "bridle" at my use of the term "mental illness" as there is such stigma attached to that term when what I really mean is "mental not-health, like having the flu in my brain...if it's not mental health it's mental illness to me.

to me "real normal" is quite frankly "not-healthy" from the messages we learn in childhood to what we are shown on TV and advertising as "normal".

So, yes, "mental health" and the striving for said condition is absolutely exceptional. Especially since my experience is once I headed towards "mental health" I got a LOT of resistance from just about everyone around me as it challenged the status quo.

I had to learn to only take my "stuff' to "safe places and people" as time went by. Especially since I was, quite frankly, wrong about some things, although right about others, but, for me, it was important to find a safe place to process all of this, without not only harming others, but not having to "argue" my revelations either.

My favorite quote about this process was from Jack Kornfield who said "My parents hated the fact I was a Buddhist but loved me when I was being a Buddha"

So now, in my day to day interactions with other I try to be a "Buddha" and not a "Buddhist" speaking allegorically of course. Attraction not promotion you know? Nothing worse then a fanatic, who is someone who can't change their mind and won't change the subject.

That's why, for me, recovery is and was a fairly lonely process and journey. Although, I do have to say, some of these "so-called" normal people are in possession of incredible wisdom in some areas, if I am quiet enough to listen for it.

For me, when I began my journey towards "mental health' I also had to write down all of my past relationships.

Once I "got" that what they really all had in common was me, my journey of recovery could begin.

Still Waters

I have the perfect male, and he's going to get neutered soon.

He's a sweet sweet kitty though.

Mambo Queen

I have to say, TakingCharge999, that I strenuously disagree with your co-workers' ideas of "what all men are like" too--my dad's not like that, nor is my brother, or my brother-in-law. I have quite a few married friends who aren't married to jerks, the man I'm dating is not like that. Most of MY male co-workers don't seem to fit that mold at all. In fact, I think I know many more men "not" like that than like that. It's like saying all women are money-grubbing, shopping-obsessed, shallow, vacuous, over-emotional messes. I don't know many women truly like that either. I think you posted it as a joke, so I'm not trying to give you grief about it, but I think that's a depressing viewpoint to have, and not even an accurate one.

worthyoflove

My therapist told me that most men are bad. There are good ones, but most are not good.

suki44883

What kind of therapist would say something like that???

FreeBird09

I feel I tend to pick men who are emotionally unavailable based on my past experience as a child. (not blaming my upbringing) I have dug deep into the why's of how I end up (pick) men who are destined to leave me.

I always tried to get the attention of my father, he was an absent parent. I came in contact with him when I was around 12 and he visited my brothers and I at my grandparents house. My Mom was pissed (she knew he was a leaver and would leave us kids heartbroken again) The night before my father left I said, Daddy don't leave until you say goodbye to me. He left the next morning never saying goodbye. I had never felt so abandoned. It carried on into my adult life. I picked a man who (I let) abuse(d) me for 23 years, always pushing me aside. Abandoned. I then picked an Alcoholic, KNOWING he was an alcoholic, he manipulated, abused emotionally, pushed me aside... and eventually left me.

Prior to that I had spoken to my father roughly 12 years ago, I wanted him to meet his grandchildren. His words to me were: I have a life, stay out of it. Abandoned. 2 weeks later he died.

Picking these type of people always confirmed for me that I wasn't worthy, geezz if my father can't even love me then obviously I wasn't loveable. I (yes me) reinforced what I always thought, felt. My healthy was continuing the cycle of being abandoned to reinforce MY thought pattern.

No matter WHAT I was told differently, I still seen myself as that little girl begging her Daddy to love her and he died without me being able to set the record straight.

Since the AXBF came and went from my life, and with the help of SR, my counselor, and my good friend I have seen that the problem never WAS me, but an old thorn that resides inside MY heart from a learned issue of abandonment.

It is my problem to a certain extent, but I do know WHY I pick these type of men for my life. (To prove to myself that I am not loveable, worthy of love and compassion, etc)

I am not made for a relationship at this point, until I can lay this issue to rest. I have beaten myself up for something that I had no control over from the get go of life.

I KNOW I am loveable, worthy, on and on and on... but to actually put that into action is where I am stuck. I fear my old mind set will come barreling into my life if I were to get into a relationship. So, with that said, it isn't so much the 'mans' fault (even though they are abusers of some type or another) it is my makeup, that keeps me swirling around in a disaster.

I believe there are good, 'healthy' men out there, but to have that in my life I need to be 'healthy', until then the abusers and parasites will always be at my door.

worthyoflove

An honest one.

gowest

My therapist doesn't say all men are bad.

He does say though that there are very few successful relationships out there in the world.

His viewpoint is that 50% are divorced, 25% are married & miserable and the last 25% have a "good" relationship. Good being defined as working for both parties involved.

He thinks that is is very difficult (but not impossible) for two people to maneuver through the "romantic love" phase into the "mature love" where both see each other for who they are and learn to live and negotiate each other's emotional baggage, expectations, etc.

LaTeeDa

Not all therapists are 'healthy' either......

L

worthyoflove

My therapist did not say ALL men are bad. She said MOST, but there are GOOD men out there.

suki44883

I agree, Anvil. Sheesh...I'd much rather believe that MOST men are good but there are some not so good ones out there. Although, I guess it depends on what is meant by "good."