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Insomnia & Family Night

Old 05-21-2009, 11:43 AM
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Insomnia & Family Night

Day four, so far so good.

Except I haven't really slept since the start. The first few nights I popped a few Advil PM's which used to do a pretty good job when I couldn't sleep. Tuesday and Wednesday I wake up after about 2 or 3 hours sleep each night thinking this is to be expected. Wednesday afternoon I see the doc about getting something for the anxiety and he writes a script for Paxil. Cool, I know this takes some time, but the the psychological effect of taking something for it starts to ease the knot in the stomach. I realize even at the time it could be a sugar pill, but at least it's something. I fully expect good sleep last night, but no, same deal. I wake up a zombie this morning, sleepwalk through a quick meeting, then come home to nap before having to pick the kids up from school. As you can tell, I'm typing and not napping. I lay down and close my eyes and nothing. Lights on, lights off, music on softly, dead silence, TV news on in the background, doesn't matter. The more I lay there the more I realize it's useless. I get up, and realize I've got to go lay down. It's family night tonight so I'm lugging the kids out to the meetings, I'm thinking about putting some coffee on and trying to lug through the rest of the day. My brain is simply too active to allow sleep this week I guess.

As I've written before, I fully support my wife in her 4 week program, and they have strongly encouraged bringing the kids to family night. From what I understand there is a guest lecturer talk about the effects of alcohol on the family, then they go their way and the families go the other, then we all get together again for another portion. I have a problem with this. My kids are way to young to understand what the hell they are talking about. They don't even understand the concept of alcohol or alcoholism. And they shouldn't! They know that mommy is going to a special place because she has a sickness and that she is going there to get herself healthy again so she can be a good mommy to them. If they we're 10, 12 , 15 years old then I'm all for it, but not 2nd grade, 1st grade, and pre-kindergarden. I can't help but think they are going to use them as some kind of a prop to make her feel guilty about her drinking. I don't mind being a prop, and will in fact get a chance to explain what effect her drinking has had, but I don't want them to use my children that way. Especially because it's not just our family, it's a whole group of families that will undoubtedly be talking about the situations in their houses, likely more frankly than I would like my kids to hear. Too much exposure for them, like letting them see a very real and scary PG-13 movie. What does everyone think?
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:56 AM
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Never having been to something like that I would venture to guess it isn't as "bad" as a PG-13 movie would be for your children. I doubt your children will be used as a prop because what would they have to gain by making your wife feel some sort of remorse about her past. Remorse is not a healthy emotion for an alcoholic to feel any ways.

I still am unclear as to whether its just your wife with the problem with alcohol or if you also have a problem with alcohol. If you had cleared that point up previously then forgive me. I thought you had said this was an equal problem for the both of you, but it seems as though you are pointing the finger at her. "I don't mind being a prop, and will in fact get a chance to explain what effects her drinking has had, . . ." If your wife is the only one with the drinking problem then I would suggest you try to support her in every way possible. Her sobriety is a gift to you and your family, as well as herself. A family night sounds to me like an innocent way of spending time together with other sober folks.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:11 PM
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Thank you for staying sober one day at a time!!
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:16 PM
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I was in treatment and family night with kids was just so they could visit. It is not to use them in any way. Please don't worry about that. Kids need their Mommy and Mommies need their kids.
I had problems sleeping and still do with a couple days shy of 8 mths. In the beginning I couldn't even close my eyes, but that does go away. Now I wake up about every 3-4 hrs. I think its just an age thing, or at least I'm telling myself that. You have alot on your plate right now, so give yourself a break.

I can tell you one thing, when I was in treatment, one of the things that helped me was when my family came and the hugs and kisses I received. What a joy it was!!!!
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:24 PM
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Horselover-

Thanks for the reply. My wife is in a 4 week program and it is readily apparent that she is an alcoholic to her and others that are close to her. There is no disputing that. Because she is in the program, I need to stop drinking as well, and quite frankly I am using that period to determine if I have a problem too. In essence, steps 1 and 2 in the big book essentially states that one has to admit that they have become powerless over an addiction and only a higher power than themselves can restore sanity. If I drink, that's it, I have a problem and need to turn it over to someone else. If I don't, well then I am not powerless over it and can restore sanity without the help of a higher power.

I'm not going to lie, it hasn't been as easy as "oh, well, never drink again, no big deal." I was a heavy drinker. But what I have found over the past few days is that I can do it, I haven't even really had a desire or compulsion to drink, and have had all of the opportunity in the world to pop in to a bar and have a pint or two and nobody would be the wiser. Quite frankly, I have too much riding on it to even consider that, including my marriage and children's future. I'm having some trouble sleeping because it's been such a habit to have a few to take the edge off, and that would be the easy way to deal with it, but again that's not an option for me.

To address my line about how to "explain the effects of her drinking has had" I should have been more clear. It's one of her homework assignments. I have to attend one of her sessions and point out all of the negative effects her drinking has had on the family. In an open forum of about 50 people looking on! I don't want to do it! I wouldn't do it, except its part of the program and the people that know treatment a hell of a lot better than I do say its a necessary part of the program. I don't know if it's to make her feel remorse about her past or not, but kind of seems that way. That in a round about way should kind of address your first paragraph in your reply, and why I am apprehensive to have my kids along this evening because I don't really know if it's age appropriate.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:28 PM
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I understand and sorry if I offended. Not my intention. I wish I could answer you on this children's question, but I have no experience in that area. It is commendable that you want to protect them, but I would think they would be just fine. I would go with what Believe has offered because she has actually lived it. I wish you only good things in your quest to find the answers.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:31 PM
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I think it depends on how much exposure the kids had to mom's problem and how much they've been affected. I have a 15 yr old step-granddaughter, 'H' who has lived with her father since she was 8 (he married my daughter when the girl was 12); prior to that time 'H' lived with her mother who was an addict/alcholic, my granddaughter was pretty much taking care of her own mother by the time she was 6-she was exposed to a LOT of cr*p--yelling screaming ==violence--abuse by the mother and mothers men etc; and by the time I met 'H' when she was 10 she was more grown up than many adults I've known. When 'H''s mom finally got into treatment it was helpful for "H' to take part in the recovery. But in a routine situation I would not involved the kids.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Iron View Post
Too much exposure for them, like letting them see a very real and scary PG-13 movie. What does everyone think?
Probably depends on how much exposure they've had to real life scary stuff going on in the household. And that's where the kind of honesty that most of us can't see comes in.

When I was drinking, I didn't think I was hurting anybody but myself. There weren't big fights, no yelling or things breaking in front of my son. I wasn't out at the bars. So, no exposure to scary stuff I liked to think.

The truth was, though, that I resented my son. Ouch. How's that for scary from the perspective of a 5 year old? I would watch the clock, wishing it would move faster so I could put him to bed. My nights were consumed with hiding out, being physically present, but emotionally absent, waiting for the time when I could 'relax' and get back to my real interest in oblivion.

I'm pretty sure that my veiled resentment came through loud and clear. These are not fun things to look at, but the damage done didn't start healing until I took the steps suggested. 'Warped lives of blameless children,' AA's Big Book calls it.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:42 PM
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Horselover-

It is virtually impossible to offend me. Go ahead and try, give it your best shot. I re-read my post and saw how it could have been misunderstood that I am just waiting for my chance to point a finger at her. Not the case at all.

keithj

Thanks for your input. Thinking back to that time, would you have taken your 5 year old to a meeting and told him that realization? I think that's the decision I'm looking at this afternoon.

I would go with Believe as well, but Mom comes home every day. She's not home much, quick dinner break then at night and in the morning, but she does see them everyday.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Iron View Post
Thinking back to that time, would you have taken your 5 year old to a meeting and told him that realization?
Well, I guess my point would be that you probably haven't done as good a job as you think of shielding your kids from the effects of active alcoholism in the house. Is there any good reason to shield them from the recovery?

I know some treatment approaches try to deal with the whole family being sick and needing to recover. I honestly don't know much about that. My son has been to hundreds of AA meetings with me over the years, since that age of 5. I also went through a formal amends process with him at that age. And I did not use the phrase, "I resented you." Instead, I was guided by a higher power in making that amends.

People who were around the meetings at that time were shocked at the change in his level of calmness and lack of fear. Even though he wasn't aware of it, my recovery had a profound effect on him as well. So, take that for what it's worth.

Far more important to your children's well being than whether or not you take them to family night, is whether or not you and their mom experience a real and lasting recovery. That will make all the difference.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:32 PM
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Really? You were taking your 5 year old to meetings? Did he get what was going on? That's eye opening. My 5 year old can't sit still for 10 minutes much less a whole evening listening to people speak, but kids can surprise.

Compromise solution achieved, we're going, but if it's something I don't want the kids to be apart of we're leaving. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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9Iron,

Oh yeah, drug a 5 year old to all kinds of meetings. I'm sure he didn't entirely understand the topics, but he asked me some surprisingly insightful questions about it.

And yeah, that sitting still was a challenge at first and I had to pick meetings carefully and make sure he had things to amuse him. That was the cool thing, though. After a couple of months of my recovery taking fire, he changed also. He sat quietly beside me and did his thing. That's what the others noticed. One guy even said to me that he could tell how I was doing by noticing how calm (or not) my son was that day.

Glad you found a solution to tonight's question.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:47 PM
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Couldn't you just call and ask what the kiddos involvment would entail?

I highly doubt they will be involved in any way other than having an opportunity to give their mom some hugs and kisses that they ALL need from each other.

And yeah, I doubt what they're going to go through is nothing compared to what they have before. Glad you're staying sober too, I can't imagine them having one sober parent in treatment, and one still drunk parent at home.

So far so good it seems, and you're right, if you're not an alcoholic as defined by the Big Book (or otherwise really..), drinking or not drinking really shouldn't take any thought. Non-alcoholics can decide to never have a drink again, and honestly not give a sh** about it for the rest of their days.. and it sounds like you're not having any thoughts of it or anything, and that's great!

I think..
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:54 PM
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All right, now I'm pissed. The wife, prior to us going to family night, really asked whether it was age appropriate and all of that and was assured that it was. No problem, anyone aged 5 and up is welcome and it's totally appropriate, and you really need to bring them because it's important to you're recovery she was told. The doctor gave the talk to a room full of adults, one or two teenagers, and my kids. I immediately knew how it was going to go when he started, this was no program for kids. They were introduced to such exotic terms as LSD, marijuana, drunkard, "fell on his ass", "pissed off", "damn right" as the story developed. The story was the typical alcoholic story of a man, wife, kids, dog, the dad is a drunk, beats his wife, and the family splits when mom leaves dad. Great bedtime story for children that are already freaked out by the sudden change in routine. It would have been a fine meeting, and a cautionary tale for the teenagers as to what can happen if you have the gene, but completely inappropriate for my kids ages. You want to trust professionals, they've ran these programs for years and I haven't, but damn it I know my kids and just had a gut feeling this wasn't the right thing to do. The wife had to stay for extra sessions (remember it is outpatient so she comes home), and my daughter was just beside herself when we left without her, absolutely sobbing. She was freaked out that Mom wasn't coming home, I wonder where she could have gotten that idea from.

Not doing that again, should have listened to myself earlier and put my foot down.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:40 PM
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I came to this thread late 9iron and for what it might or might not have been worth as far as my opinion.

I was in a 28 day treatment almost 4 years ago, don't have any children but many of the women I was in treatment with did. On family day some would come to visit their mother's, others didn't because their children who were very young thought they were somewhere other than treatment. We could use the phone 4 times a day. We didn't have any sessions such as the one you described except one at the end of the 28 days, where a Dr and social worker came to the facility to talk about aftercare programs for families, but it was only to the residents.

I went to AA for 2 and a few years and often saw children there. Sometimes they were there because getting a babysitter was not an option (money) and for others they wanted to bring their children.

Just my opinion...but I don't think AA or treatment facilities are any place for children. For what reason? There is lots of time for children to see life, why bring it to them sooner.

That said, I do believe that children know more than adults drinking may think, but I wouldn't finish the job with horror stories told by Dr's and people in recovery. And it was a rare night that I did not hear a horror story.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:08 PM
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9Iron, I just got back to your thread tonight, I didn't realize your wife was in outpatient, I thought she was inpatient. Sorry for the mistake.
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