FunnyOne

OK, so my estranged RAH has made written agreements with me, that he would arrange visitation through me first and then through my son. Well, yesterday he was supposed to take my son for the day, never showed. I emailed him today to ask why. He said he had called my son and didn't get a return phonecall so he didn't think they were on. Of course he never considered that my son's cell phone was temporarily missing. And that doesn't relieve him of the responsibility to set up or cancel through me first. And it wasn't very considerate of my plans for the day which had to change.

AND he agreed to have his checks brought to the house account and then live off X number of dollars a week....but he deposited his check in his own account for the second time in a row to cover overdrafts. Last month I never saw the balance of the check - X. He answered this question today by saying he would "see when he could stop by so we can get square" Well for God's sake, he drives past here for his AA meeting at noon every day and for his IOP at 6 every night.

SOOOO, I know that the AA founders first and foremost deal with NOT drinking....because you can't fix the behaviors while twisted. BUT I think early on in the program there should be something that deals with STOP HURTING YOUR LOVED ONES WHILE YOU WORK ON MAKING AMMENDS TO THEM and STOP BEING AN IRRESPONSIBLE JERK WHILE YOU WORK ON LEARNING HOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE and STOP THE SAME CRAPPY BEHAVIORS THAT GOT YOU HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. No wonder there is such a high relapse rate, my husband for one is heaping shame on himself faster than he is shoveling it off.

GRRRRRR, thanks for the vent.

RobinsFly

Sounds really frustrating. Especially when you are counting on the funds being there. Or him to show up when he says.

I agree. It's almost like the drinking is the least of their problems. it's just a symptom.
But some folks will NEVER understand that.

Freedom1990

Actually the founders of AA did put something in place for that, and they are called the 12 steps.

Now whether your estranged RAH is actually working a solid program of AA, or just paying lip service, I have no idea. I have my suspicions, and it isn't option #1.

freya

The founders of AA were well-aware that "drinking was but a symptom," and I really don't think that they are to blame for your husband's obviously less than stellar recovery work...

..and, seriously, why are you seeking to blame them anyways? Your husband is responsible for his own lack of recovery. If he has been to AA even once, he knows very well that there is a program of recovery that only just begins with putting down the drink....he is making a choice not to move beyond that first step. AA is not any more responsible for forcing recovery on your husband than you are, and they have no more right to do so than you do....which, BTW, on both counts, is "none."

And, if you're somehow counting on AA to "make" your husband responsible and, thereby, to ensure that he is going to be honest and act with integrity when it comes to honoring his agreements, isn't that really just you looking to AA to ensure that you get taken care of when, really, you need to learning to take care of yourself and to rely on your HP?

I'm not saying any of this to be mean: I'm saying this because I truly believe that the best way for you to ensure that you get taken care of is for you to learn to take care of yourself, and relying on the honesty and good will of someone who, it appears, has barely begun and who is not, even at this early point, as committed to his recovery as he might be is really not a very good or helpful place to start.

It might be more helpful for you to take your focus off of your husband and his program and to look at what a 12 Step program of your own might have to offer you.

freya

FunnyOne

Freya,
I am not blaming AA. Saying "That dang AA isn't getting my husband sober" is blame. I am just of the opinion that there are a lot of slogans that could be added for new timers to remind folks to stop heaping on the shame while you are trying to shovel it off. His recovery, or lack thereof, falls squarely on his shoulders.

And, if you read between the lines that I thought AA (or me for that matter) was responsible for forcing recovery on my husband, that is certainly not my belief and definitely not my intention.

Finally, why did you assume that I am not taking care of myself and that I expect to be taken care of or that I am counting on him to take care of me? And really, why are you assuming that I am just at a "place to start" my recovery?

I really don't think that I shared my career, my finances, my ability to pay for my expenses by myself, or any fears that I could not survive and keep my home without his contribution. In fact, I am extremely self sufficient, thank you very much! AND, I was blessed with a Mama that told me to always keep my credit in my name, and my savings and inheritance separate and live in a state that allows that. So I did and I have. Not to say that this economy isn't frightening me along with everyone else!

And, I am new to this board, but not to the process, and my spiritual journey began two decades ago, I know I sound defensive, but we need to be careful on this board not to assume.

I was just venting. I am just frustrated because I really want this for him for my kids sake. Not for mine. But relieving him of his financial or child duties by saying he isn't "responsible" or capable of integrity is just another form of enabling, isn't it?

I am far enough along in my journey to know to lean on SR or my spiritual advisor when I feel a lack of compassion, understanding or confusion when faced with a painful or frustrating experience. I never think I have the answers and I always question the process. It's part of my own personal journey. I hope along the way I share enough to help others too.

I wish you well.

Freedom1990

I understand your frustration. My youngest daughter's father was active in AA and sober 13 years when I got pregnant with her (she'll be 21 next month).

Right after I found out I was pregnant, the dynamics changed. He no longer wanted to take me places. He was no longer willing to drive over to see me (I live approx 40 miles away). I finally confronted him when I was 5 months pregnant and asked if he was going to be an active parent to this baby in any way.

His response? "If it's mine."

I knew deep in my heart, at that moment, that was just a precursor of things to come.

Once paternity was established, it was a constant battle for child support. His income tax return had to be intercepted many times to pay towards the back support.

He got involved with her life for one brief year, when she was 8, and all the 'fatherly' things trickled down to nothing. Her stepmother was more involved with her than he ever was.

I was frustrated for a long time, and hurt for my daughter because her dad wasn't present in so many ways.

I finally let go and let God have it all. I did the best job that I could as a single parent, and today she knows who was present for her through the thick and thin.

We have a good relationship today, and that is worth its weight in gold.

I pray you too can get to a place of having a quiet heart and no more frustration. :ghug :ghug

tallulah

what I've learned having lived with a recovering alcoholic with a sponsor, a commitment and over 2 years sober and in AA is that... that means absolutely NOTHING unless they are truly, honestly, working that programme and working on themselves..

now I should have realised when he told me he'd be in and out of AA for 13.. yes count them, 13... years in his short life and yet he was still screwing up that the <insert number> time was not necessarily going to be the charm, but meh what did I know..

I could show up to lectures on neurology.. put the books out before each tutorial.. stick around for coffee and a chat afterwards.. doesn't make me a brain surgeon.

freya

FunnyOne:

Your OP is entirely focused on your AH's shortcomings and the assumed shortcomings of AA. It is my experience that people who are that totally focused on someone other than themselves are rarely taking care of themselves (and, BTW, financial independence is not the only, nor even the most vital, way to be taking care of oneself!). Of course, it is entirely possible that you could be the one exception to that rule that I've encountered thus far...but, even if that is indeed the case, how are your readers supposed to know that if you say nothing in your OP to indicate that it is so?

As the writer, you have total control over the information you choose to give your readers, and it is unreasonable to assume that people are going to be able to factor into their responses information that you do not provide. If you want responses that go beyond sympathetic feel-goodism, you need to provide the relevant information to make that possible. Or, if you want nothing but sympathetic feel-goodism, you need to say something in your OP to make that clear.

If you really don't want to bother to do either of those things, this site has an "Ignore" feature, and it would probably be most conducive to your serenity and self-care if you put me on it, since attempted mind-reading is one of the behaviors that my own recovery has demanded I give up!

Finally, I don't believe that I said or even implied that you should enable your AH by letting him off the hook in this situation. What I said, which is exactly what I meant, is that it is probably not wise or helpful (nor is it realistic) for you to count on the AH to behave with honor and honesty just because it is the right thing to do. You are setting yourself up for disappointment and resentment by doing so. Of course, it is your absolute right to set yourself up like that if you want to, but, once again, setting yourself up in this manner is not, in my experience, indicative of good self-care....of the more-important-than-financial-type. There is a world of difference between letting someone get away with repeatedly mistreating you and setting yourself up for emotional trauma by expecting him to do differently despite his history.

....and I do wish you the best of luck, also!

freya

FunnyOne

Or maybe it's just focus on a 25 year marriage and the first time he has actually gone to an in/outpatient program and wishing the best for him and being disappointed when he steps back. Because I care about him, and really want that for him and accepting that is part of my whole process. But it never happens immediately for me, all in my HP's time, all in my HP's time!

GiveLove

FunnyOne, I'm getting this strong sense of deja vu...didn't you and I just have that conversation about "somebody else's timing" the other day? (re my screen name)

I know how hard it is to be on the receiving end of somebody continuing their bad behavior even while purportedly in recovery. It's a recurring theme out here, that's for sure.

For what it's worth, I too once wished that AA had a "step one-and-a-half" that read something like, "Realized I needed to knock off all the stupid hurtful sh** I was doing, and did so" LOL

But in the case of my X, it wouldn't have helped anyway. He was, and is, a self-absorbed, irresponsible person, AA or no AA.

Sorry yours is acting this way but, if your situation is anything like mine, I wouldn't hold my breath that any program is going to cure him of this any time soon. Sad, but not insurmountable.

How is your son doing with all of this?

bluejay6

Hello funnyone.....

I don't know your history but if your RAH is in early recovery he will have a lot of difficulty with basic life organization....memory problems, anxiety problems, intimacy problems, relationship problems, family problems. If he is in early recovery, the effects of post acute withdrawal could go on for many months, or even a few years, and will impact his ability to manage life efficiently and to be able to self-regulate and self-reflect.

And as I type this description, I realize that for many many months after the end of my relationship with exabf, I suffered many of the same PAW symptoms.....memory problems, clarity, empathy, mental management in general....all were impacted both during the relationship and during my healing time (which has been about three years as I am finally starting to feel my rooted center again).

I was, essentially, a bit of a mess for quite a while and perhaps I disappointed some people who needed more of me than I was able at the time to give.

Recovery from the trauma of addiction---for both the addict and the codependent---takes not weeks or months, but in my experience is measured by years.

I hope you'll be able to keep the realities of medical and psychological trauma from addictive disease in mind as your whole family finds its way to health, and not bring yourself down with frustration and anger as things continue to be so ragged.

And you might double and triple check with him all plans, all agreements, etc, as you have been doing, as some of it may simply slip right through his head and poof out of mind.

Your desire for your family to be whole again, and for him to be a reliable father and dependable, loving spouse is apparent. Your love for him is apparent. But he has been very sick, mentally. It is going to take a long while. Keep that long view in mind, and try to let go as much as you can, saving anger for MAJOR betrayals, should any occur.

Everyone is just so fragile and in pieces from this disease. And needs time.

FunnyOne

Thank you kind souls

steve11694

In conventional medicine there is a major roadblock to sick people getting/staying better;
it is called "compliance"

examples; the diabetic that does not take the medicine as they should

the hypertensive " " " " "

dialysis patient that drinks way too much water


and many many more. they too can be in "denial" usually the way they learn to break denial and accept what they must do is via suffering the consequences.

sojourner

here's my take on this one from the perspective of having my father relapse and be in and out of AA many times in my growing up years.

In hindsight, what he really needed was to get out of the 28-day treatment program and go into a halfway house for some months in order to continue to heal and be able to ease back into his life of responsibilities. But the way it actually went was that he had to come off his physically and mentally traumatic benders, go away from his home for 28 days around a bunch of strangers, withdraw from alcohol, and then come right back home to all the responsibilities of work, house, and a family that was mighty angry about his behavior. We all expected he should come back totally normal - as if he had gone for an appendectomy or something. And now i know that it takes a good year for the brain to fully heal from the effects of long-term chemical ingestion (alcohol or otherwise).

Or maybe another way to deal with it would be for the family to move somewhere else for a time!!

GiveLove

Oooh, a halfway house for recovering families to go to.

Now THERE's a great idea.

I vote for putting it on the Big Island of Hawaii. With a beach, horses, counseling sessions, massage therapist.....all covered by insurance, hopefully

sojourner

Awesome! Why not covered by insurance - we all know this is a family illness!!!!!!!

Freedom1990

FunnyOne

Hi Sojourner,
My husband is living in his own apartment. He has a budget he agreed to and only has the cable and electric bill to pay. I pay his rent (from his money) because that's the only way the landlord trusted him to rent it to him. I put no obligations on him, not even regarding my son. Our contact is limited to emails discussing the kids (minor stuff) and the finances (as in where is your check?)
But this week he diverted his check into his own account, overdrafted his account, missed a child visitation AND asked me for a divorce and said if I won't file he will. And what triggered this? NOTHING!

Give Love, if I had a dollar for every day I stayed that I shouldn't have, I could BUY an Hawaiian Island!

GiveLove

((( FunnyOne )))

sojourner

Funnyone:



A comeback you could give your husband is to say you notice he's extremely agitated, anxious (fill in the blank) and that maybe he could use a meeting... then do the detachment thing and say a prayer for this guy....