Blackouts & cheating
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Blackouts & cheating
Hi everyone, I am new to this site and am in desperate need of advice from people who can relate from personal experience... My fiance and I (been together 4yrs) recently decided to relocate, he is living in a total new state and I can't move there for a few months cuz of work. Anyway a week ago he told me that he had slept with someone else the night before. He says he can remember most of the night (even putting on a condom) but he says he had a blackout and does not remember how he managed to get into bed with her. I believe it was a mistake and that he will never do it again, and i have decided to give him a second chance but as I have never experienced a blackout I dont know how he can't remeber things (like the condom) and not kissing/sex etc. He has decided to give up drinking, I didn't have to ask. And he does seem to be truly sorry. We have done ALOT of talking and have realised that there was problems before it, just we had lost communication. He has admitted to using the drink as a way of escaping problems. I do know that he has blackouts alot. Does this mean he was on the verge of becoming an alcoholic?
So just wondering if anyone can relate and whether what he is saying can be true for someone who experiences a true blackout?
So just wondering if anyone can relate and whether what he is saying can be true for someone who experiences a true blackout?
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Welcome! I think you find this place a great source of information and support for yourself. Educate yourself about alcoholism and its effect on you. Learn everything you can so you can make educated decisions about what you want to do going forward.
Someone experiencing blackouts is not on the verge of being an alcoholic. They are well into it. Especially if he admits to having blackouts a lot! Thank God he hasn't killed someone during one of those blackouts. Yet.
Its all very nice that he made a mistake (I wonder how many other times he has done so and has no memory of it) and the he says recognizes he has a problem and that you some how know he won't do it again. Words are easy though. What's important is what does he actually do? Does he stop drinking, does he get into a recovery program, is he serious or only saying the right things because he fears losing you or scared himself.
All of that though is his problem to deal with, not yours. Only he can decide to get serious about his recovery. You can be supportive but you really can't do anything to help or hinder his potential recovery.
What you can do is do some serious thinking about what you want in a relationship, especially in a marriage. You can think about what sort of behaviors you will and will not tolerate (set boundaries) and what you are willing to do if he violates your boundaries. For instance, what if he doesn't stop drinking or get into a recovery program? Is that ok with you? If not, what are you willing to do about it? You do not set these boundaries to try an control his ehaviors, but to spell out what you find acceptable and unacceptable to protect yourself from the drama and pain that life with an alcoholic can involve.
I hope you take a good long time before taking the step of marrying this man. I'm not saying never do it but until he demonstrates that he is sober and seriously working on continued sobriety, do youself a favor and don't legally tie yourself to this man. Its much harder to get out , if you ever decide to do that, after you are married. Let him show he can be serious about sobriety for a nice long time (say a year) before you make a further committment. Personally I would also not move to be near him until you are sure about his sobriety either.
Someone experiencing blackouts is not on the verge of being an alcoholic. They are well into it. Especially if he admits to having blackouts a lot! Thank God he hasn't killed someone during one of those blackouts. Yet.
Its all very nice that he made a mistake (I wonder how many other times he has done so and has no memory of it) and the he says recognizes he has a problem and that you some how know he won't do it again. Words are easy though. What's important is what does he actually do? Does he stop drinking, does he get into a recovery program, is he serious or only saying the right things because he fears losing you or scared himself.
All of that though is his problem to deal with, not yours. Only he can decide to get serious about his recovery. You can be supportive but you really can't do anything to help or hinder his potential recovery.
What you can do is do some serious thinking about what you want in a relationship, especially in a marriage. You can think about what sort of behaviors you will and will not tolerate (set boundaries) and what you are willing to do if he violates your boundaries. For instance, what if he doesn't stop drinking or get into a recovery program? Is that ok with you? If not, what are you willing to do about it? You do not set these boundaries to try an control his ehaviors, but to spell out what you find acceptable and unacceptable to protect yourself from the drama and pain that life with an alcoholic can involve.
I hope you take a good long time before taking the step of marrying this man. I'm not saying never do it but until he demonstrates that he is sober and seriously working on continued sobriety, do youself a favor and don't legally tie yourself to this man. Its much harder to get out , if you ever decide to do that, after you are married. Let him show he can be serious about sobriety for a nice long time (say a year) before you make a further committment. Personally I would also not move to be near him until you are sure about his sobriety either.
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
As hard to believe as it may seem, blackouts are periods of amnesia that occur in alcoholics. Interestingly is that alcoholics report their occurrence even without drinking to the point of obliteration. Something in the brain chemistry as altered by alcohol is believed to cause this.
Barbara52 has shared some very wise thoughts above.
Barbara52 has shared some very wise thoughts above.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
My XABF also pleaded "blackout" whenever we were separate and he knew (or thought) I couldn't verify what he was doing. If he thought there was any chance I might find out, then he 'fessed up to his acts.
At one point, he claimed he remembered everything before and everything after a sexual act with a woman. But the act itself? "Oh, I can't remember a thing."
Later, I was to find out there were multiple infidelities. The "I blacked out" line had worked on me, and so he used it repeatedly. He would remember enough to go to the store and buy more vodka, but magically black out when it came time to remember anything else. One woman claimed he got her pregnant....and the horrible rollercoaster went on and on.
For years.
You have no way of knowing whether he's actually stopped drinking. Nor can you know if he's telling the truth, or whether this was the first time. He may not even remember. I'd love to encourage you to forgive, embrace, believe, etc. but truly, we have seen these things happen SO many times that my conscience wouldn't permit me to do that.
Only you can decide whether you want to set yourself up for this kind of pain. Alcoholics' infidelity, and all of the other costs involved (DUIs, STDs, traffic accidents that kill other people, the mountain of lies that alcoholics tell, the financial aspect, etc.) I would be very, very cautious if I were you.
Take care of yourself ---
At one point, he claimed he remembered everything before and everything after a sexual act with a woman. But the act itself? "Oh, I can't remember a thing."
Later, I was to find out there were multiple infidelities. The "I blacked out" line had worked on me, and so he used it repeatedly. He would remember enough to go to the store and buy more vodka, but magically black out when it came time to remember anything else. One woman claimed he got her pregnant....and the horrible rollercoaster went on and on.
For years.
You have no way of knowing whether he's actually stopped drinking. Nor can you know if he's telling the truth, or whether this was the first time. He may not even remember. I'd love to encourage you to forgive, embrace, believe, etc. but truly, we have seen these things happen SO many times that my conscience wouldn't permit me to do that.
Only you can decide whether you want to set yourself up for this kind of pain. Alcoholics' infidelity, and all of the other costs involved (DUIs, STDs, traffic accidents that kill other people, the mountain of lies that alcoholics tell, the financial aspect, etc.) I would be very, very cautious if I were you.
Take care of yourself ---
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Emzlee 
He says he can remember most of the night (even putting on a condom) but he says he had a blackout and does not remember how he managed to get into bed with her. I believe it was a mistake and that he will never do it again, and i have decided to give him a second chance but as I have never experienced a blackout I dont know how he can't remeber things (like the condom) and not kissing/sex etc.
Let's fast forward two years later when my husband physically abused me during one of his blackout drunks. I forgave it. Over the couse over a year and a half there were five such episodes. I don't know if they were all during blackouts or if the behaviour was now part of acceptable ways to treat me. Quite frankly it doesn't matter if it is during a blackout or if it is done stone cold sober. I'm the one who was wearing the consequences.
I guess the message I'm trying to convey is that I forgave him because I have been there BUT when I started to suffer terrible consequences from my own drinking, I stopped. My husband didn't and things got worse and worse for me. And it isn't as clear cut as all this because there were many periods where he could pull back from the drinking and life seemed perfect but over time, it got worse. If your husband continues to drink, I believe this will be the first of many infidelities.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Now is where the rubber meets the road
He's given you the information
When he drinks, he blacks out and sleeps with other women
these aren't mutually exclusive by the way, judgment is the first thing to go out the window when an alcoholic drinks.
What will you do if he continues to drink?
This was also true of me by the way so I have no judgment, it's one of the two biggest reasons I got sober. I had an absolute inability to have a committed relationship while drinking. (the other "big" reason, not nearly as important to me then, is when I drank I broke out in handcuffs frequently, although that began to have an adverse impact on my relationship as well)
So, bottom line, If he continues to drink, you know what that is going to look like, If he gets sober and gets in a recovery program, it may look different.
I just want to be crystal clear, if he continues to drink, do NOT be surprised when he "strays" again, because he most likely will. What's that Dr. Phil says, "the best indicator of future actions are past actions."
Once again, I have no judgment, but what I do have is experience with this.
He has the information, what he does with that information will be incredibly telling, he has a choice to make, you or alcohol (by his own admission) if he chooses alcohol, I would suggest paying VERY CAREFUL attention to that information. He will have "told" you his choice very clearly, anything that may happen to come out of his lips won't match his actions, no matter how much sunshine he blows up your keister. By choosing alcohol over you, he will be choosing blackouts and infidelity over you. I can't state this strongly enough.
You have the information as well, what you do with that information will dictate the course of your life for years to come.
The recomendation stating see if he gets a year of sobriety is extremely important.
Good Luck
He's given you the information
When he drinks, he blacks out and sleeps with other women
these aren't mutually exclusive by the way, judgment is the first thing to go out the window when an alcoholic drinks.
What will you do if he continues to drink?
This was also true of me by the way so I have no judgment, it's one of the two biggest reasons I got sober. I had an absolute inability to have a committed relationship while drinking. (the other "big" reason, not nearly as important to me then, is when I drank I broke out in handcuffs frequently, although that began to have an adverse impact on my relationship as well)
So, bottom line, If he continues to drink, you know what that is going to look like, If he gets sober and gets in a recovery program, it may look different.
I just want to be crystal clear, if he continues to drink, do NOT be surprised when he "strays" again, because he most likely will. What's that Dr. Phil says, "the best indicator of future actions are past actions."
Once again, I have no judgment, but what I do have is experience with this.
He has the information, what he does with that information will be incredibly telling, he has a choice to make, you or alcohol (by his own admission) if he chooses alcohol, I would suggest paying VERY CAREFUL attention to that information. He will have "told" you his choice very clearly, anything that may happen to come out of his lips won't match his actions, no matter how much sunshine he blows up your keister. By choosing alcohol over you, he will be choosing blackouts and infidelity over you. I can't state this strongly enough.
You have the information as well, what you do with that information will dictate the course of your life for years to come.
The recomendation stating see if he gets a year of sobriety is extremely important.
Good Luck
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
HI,
Sorry you are going through this.
Ago is right. If he chooses alcohol, he is choosing blackout and all that comes with that over you. My ex did that too. I know it may not seem like it now, but if you examine it now then years down the road you will be saving yourself much pain.
Miss
Sorry you are going through this.
Ago is right. If he chooses alcohol, he is choosing blackout and all that comes with that over you. My ex did that too. I know it may not seem like it now, but if you examine it now then years down the road you will be saving yourself much pain.
Miss
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
My STBXAH cheated after 21 years, and didn't even have to black out to do it. Now he is in counseling and AA and SAYS he is working on things, but like Ago mentioned his word don't match his actions. My counselor explained to me that integrity (which comes from the word integrate) means ones words and actions are in alignment. We hear the words that we so want to hear......."I'll never do it again", "I know I have a problem", "I admit that I made a mistake", but the actions never follow.
I have been told here that often alcohol gets too much credit for our A's actions. Character issues will have to be dealt with as well. I think counseling and Alanon would be a great place for you to start and get as much information as you can before making a decision about such a committment as marriage. You have so much life ahead, I hope you can feel empowered enough to make it look just the way YOU want it to!
I have been told here that often alcohol gets too much credit for our A's actions. Character issues will have to be dealt with as well. I think counseling and Alanon would be a great place for you to start and get as much information as you can before making a decision about such a committment as marriage. You have so much life ahead, I hope you can feel empowered enough to make it look just the way YOU want it to!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
I'm married to my A and we have an 18 month old daughter. The problem was slow and progressive, and I ended up putting up with a lot before I found al anon and finally separate bedrooms (with the understanding that as soon as our house hold he would leave). Almost 6 months later and he is in recovery in AA. He's admitted to me that nearer the end, he would black out frequently. Mostly he drank at home, but at times he was out with friends, and sometimes at the local seedy bar. He insists that although he blacked out that he doesn't believe he ever did anything to compromise our marriage, but then, neither of us has a guarantee on that. It does bother me that something could have happened, and in my own recovery I'm dealing with it.
It's a tough road. I know the feeling that you love someone so much that you feel it will work if you just stick by them, or try harder. This is why I allowed myself to get pregnant. I don't for a second regret my daughter, but it did not change the drinking. It was only when I finally saw things for how they really were, that I/we made any progress.
I agree with the others. Our A's SAY a lot of stuff, but they have a hard time DOING what they say. It was my denial of that fact that kept me hurting and in the dark and fooling myself about the situation. Now, my AH doesn't really say much about it at all (and neither do I), but he GOES to AA and has stopped drinking. His actions no longer require that he talks big about anything. This will be your biggest signal about him being serious.
It's a tough road. I know the feeling that you love someone so much that you feel it will work if you just stick by them, or try harder. This is why I allowed myself to get pregnant. I don't for a second regret my daughter, but it did not change the drinking. It was only when I finally saw things for how they really were, that I/we made any progress.
I agree with the others. Our A's SAY a lot of stuff, but they have a hard time DOING what they say. It was my denial of that fact that kept me hurting and in the dark and fooling myself about the situation. Now, my AH doesn't really say much about it at all (and neither do I), but he GOES to AA and has stopped drinking. His actions no longer require that he talks big about anything. This will be your biggest signal about him being serious.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
From "Classic reading"...
The key word in alcoholism is "Denial", for again and again people do what they say they
will not or deny what they have done. If we could watch the play on TV and turn off the sound, we would understand much better what was really happening.
I urge you to turn off the sound and watch his previous and present actions. What is he really telling you?
I agree with the above poster. Please do not rush into anything right now. If he is serious about recovery, he can have a year to show his commitment to recovery (and even that is a short time).
Have you read the Stickies on the top of the forum? they are eye-opening.
The key word in alcoholism is "Denial", for again and again people do what they say they
will not or deny what they have done. If we could watch the play on TV and turn off the sound, we would understand much better what was really happening.
I urge you to turn off the sound and watch his previous and present actions. What is he really telling you?
I agree with the above poster. Please do not rush into anything right now. If he is serious about recovery, he can have a year to show his commitment to recovery (and even that is a short time).
Have you read the Stickies on the top of the forum? they are eye-opening.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
I've had my share of blackouts. Never did anything like cheated on my spouse though. Hard to do when all I did was get drunk in front of the TV, never leaving the house.
Blackouts are not unlike dreams. Lots of blackouts were more like "greyouts" for me. I can remember perhaps little bits and pieces here and there, mostly fuzzy things - just like some dreams where I only remember a few bits.
And there are others that are a total mystery, completely blank after a certain point.
I'm saying that, based on my experience, his description of what he remembers and what he doesn't is plausible.
I'm of the OPINION that no one deserves a free pass when it comes to blackouts, regardless of the actions. And it seems that others here also have their OPINIONS about infidelity in general...
Whatever happens between you and your partner is your business. I hope things wash out well for each of you whatever you decide.
Edit: Oh, and, regarding your question about him being on the "verge" of becoming an alcoholic... again, my opinion and I'm not a doctor or anything, but sounds like he already is one to me - based on what little I know about him. You said he has blackouts a lot. Normal people usually don't have blackouts ever.
Blackouts are not unlike dreams. Lots of blackouts were more like "greyouts" for me. I can remember perhaps little bits and pieces here and there, mostly fuzzy things - just like some dreams where I only remember a few bits.
And there are others that are a total mystery, completely blank after a certain point.
I'm saying that, based on my experience, his description of what he remembers and what he doesn't is plausible.
I'm of the OPINION that no one deserves a free pass when it comes to blackouts, regardless of the actions. And it seems that others here also have their OPINIONS about infidelity in general...
Whatever happens between you and your partner is your business. I hope things wash out well for each of you whatever you decide.
Edit: Oh, and, regarding your question about him being on the "verge" of becoming an alcoholic... again, my opinion and I'm not a doctor or anything, but sounds like he already is one to me - based on what little I know about him. You said he has blackouts a lot. Normal people usually don't have blackouts ever.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
IMO, the important thing here is not whether or not a blackout excuses cheating, or whether he is or isn't an alcoholic. The important thing here is boundaries.
Are you willing to marry someone who drinks, gets incoherent, and cheats? Pretty simple question. It sounds like maybe you are. In fact, you are willing to marry him even though he has already done this. So, now, you must ask yourself how many times is this acceptable? If it's acceptable once, is it acceptable twice, three times, once a year for the rest of your life? And, if not, what are you willing and able to do about it.
See, it's really not about what he does or doesn't do, it's more about what you accept.
L
Are you willing to marry someone who drinks, gets incoherent, and cheats? Pretty simple question. It sounds like maybe you are. In fact, you are willing to marry him even though he has already done this. So, now, you must ask yourself how many times is this acceptable? If it's acceptable once, is it acceptable twice, three times, once a year for the rest of your life? And, if not, what are you willing and able to do about it.
See, it's really not about what he does or doesn't do, it's more about what you accept.
L
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by anvilhead
alcoholic or NOT, he slept with another woman! i'll never understand how that can be OK? considered an "oopsie"? the whole thing about a BLACKOUT is that you DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING. he seems to recall all the details rather explicitly......that's not a blackout, that's reprehensible, irresponsible behavior being blamed on booze....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
Emzlee first welcome to SR. The fact that you are here I think shows that perhaps you are uncertain if ABF is being honest with you. My gut reaction when I read your post was do not move--stay where you are. Call off the marriage. There is no rush. If he is going to get sober you can get married after that.
I wish I had found SR many years ago. In my gut I knew something was not right and that AH was probably an alcoholic and drug abuser--buy I let him (and I take full responsibility now) talk me out of him being an alcoholic and drug abuser. "He only had 2 drinks" and promised me that he would never let things get out of hand. Guess who got blackout drunk at the wedding and continued to get drunk and high.
Why your fiance had a glimmer of honesty I do not know. Also, having worked as a criminal investigator--I say, anyone who admits something like this has a whole wall of information behind it that you know nothing about. It's the be honest a little but not all the way syndrome. That way you will think he is being up front with you and will not doubt him. All I can say, that has rarely been the case.
I agree with what everyone else has said. Do you want to be married to a man who drinks until he blacks out and then has sex with someone--eventhough he is engaged and his soon to be wife will be moving to where he lives. Step back and think if that is what a normal fiance would be doing. Are you doing that? Would it be OK if you did that? If the answer is no, then why is it OK for him?
Once you are married you are legally tied to this man and leaving the relationship becomes much more complicated.
Also, how long have you known him? Was it his idea or yours to get marrried? How long did you date before marriage was brought up?
Please be careful with your life.
I wish I had found SR many years ago. In my gut I knew something was not right and that AH was probably an alcoholic and drug abuser--buy I let him (and I take full responsibility now) talk me out of him being an alcoholic and drug abuser. "He only had 2 drinks" and promised me that he would never let things get out of hand. Guess who got blackout drunk at the wedding and continued to get drunk and high.
Why your fiance had a glimmer of honesty I do not know. Also, having worked as a criminal investigator--I say, anyone who admits something like this has a whole wall of information behind it that you know nothing about. It's the be honest a little but not all the way syndrome. That way you will think he is being up front with you and will not doubt him. All I can say, that has rarely been the case.
I agree with what everyone else has said. Do you want to be married to a man who drinks until he blacks out and then has sex with someone--eventhough he is engaged and his soon to be wife will be moving to where he lives. Step back and think if that is what a normal fiance would be doing. Are you doing that? Would it be OK if you did that? If the answer is no, then why is it OK for him?
Once you are married you are legally tied to this man and leaving the relationship becomes much more complicated.
Also, how long have you known him? Was it his idea or yours to get marrried? How long did you date before marriage was brought up?
Please be careful with your life.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Thanks everyone for your advice, especially from the people who have experienced blackouts first hand. I never understood how serious they were. I would like to clear one thing with some people though, because some of you believe that I am allowing and accepting this behavior! I am not! In my original post I said that I have decided to give a second chance, I never said that I had forgiven him!! And I will not until he can prove to me that he can work through his problems and show me the respect that I so deserve. Thanks Barbara for the 1yr advice. Also I had already told him that I don't want to marry him (he proposed originally, I had no idea). Thanks Ago for your very helpful post, I had already promised myself that if he ever picks up a bottle again... its O V E R. Thanks everyone, what I really needed from this site was help understanding my situation... and I feel confident in how I will handle myself and my relationship for the future now! :o)
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Emzlee! I am so glad to read your last post. You sound so determined!
I know it probably this black out thing hurt you a lot, of course, but perhaps in some time you will look back and see it was a Red Flag as to who you were really going to marry. A blessing in disguise.
I certainly hope he is honest and truly takes steps needed to keep you in his life. Sadly I would not bet on that...
I agree with others in that "sorry I was drunk" and "I do not remember" may or may not be true.. he may be sorry, he may have been drunk, hey may really not remember... none of that excuses the behaviour, or makes it OK for you!
I know it probably this black out thing hurt you a lot, of course, but perhaps in some time you will look back and see it was a Red Flag as to who you were really going to marry. A blessing in disguise.
I certainly hope he is honest and truly takes steps needed to keep you in his life. Sadly I would not bet on that...
I agree with others in that "sorry I was drunk" and "I do not remember" may or may not be true.. he may be sorry, he may have been drunk, hey may really not remember... none of that excuses the behaviour, or makes it OK for you!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by Emzlee
Thanks everyone for your advice, especially from the people who have experienced blackouts first hand. I never understood how serious they were. I would like to clear one thing with some people though, because some of you believe that I am allowing and accepting this behavior! I am not! In my original post I said that I have decided to give a second chance, I never said that I had forgiven him!! And I will not until he can prove to me that he can work through his problems and show me the respect that I so deserve. Thanks Barbara for the 1yr advice. Also I had already told him that I don't want to marry him (he proposed originally, I had no idea). Thanks Ago for your very helpful post, I had already promised myself that if he ever picks up a bottle again... its O V E R. Thanks everyone, what I really needed from this site was help understanding my situation... and I feel confident in how I will handle myself and my relationship for the future now! :o)
The one thing I would like to reiterate here is LaTeeDa's statement about boundaries is extremely pertinent and important.
Boundaries are not put in place for "behavior modification", They don't work that way, your boundary is in no way going to help with him "stopping drinking", your boundaries are there to protect you from someone else's harmful behavior.
If he's not "done drinking" nothing you do or say will affect that decision of his. Nothing. It will just make you "sick" trying.
If you put a boundary in place (as you stated you did) it's in no way shape or form "for him" it's for you.
If you _____________ I will____________________
such as "If you ___drink____, I will ___Leave____" is in place to protect you from the consequences of his drinking ie; infidelity, not in order to make him stop drinking.
If you can keep that in the forefront of your mind when dealing with him it can save you years of mental anguish.
It's pretty important.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
Im an alcoholic. Ive had many blackouts and done many things I immediately regretted. However Ive never been unfaithful to my woman and I would never use alcohol as an excuse for it if I did. Its great that he came straight out and told you, it means he has a conscience but I would say spend some time trying to figure out if he may have some doubts about complete monogony before you get hitched. He might not even realize conciously that he has them. Alcohol is an strong persuader, but were still making the decisions in some sort of way when under the influence.
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