Doppelganger

Well... here I am again with a sort of vague discomfort that I hope I will be able to identify by the time I quit typing.

He's back. I mean, geographically... not back to using. As far as I can tell Rasputin is clean as a whistle. He's staying with me temporarily for assorted and sound reasons. Very soon he will be living in another city. Close. But not here.

You read it everywhere. Everything is not going to be magically okay just because the drug user stops. Rasputin has been living hundreds of miles away for almost a year. In that year I've been trying to recover from the 6 years of hell. I thought I was doing really well. But we've had some rough spots that have a lot more to do with me than with him. And I can't quite put my finger on the problem.

He is totally different from the ogre that was keeping me hostage. He is also different from the sweet funny guy whose body was commandeered by the ogre. There's a certain awareness and wisdom that wasn't there before. I don't mean he's totally well. But he's putting a life together with damn little and I think he's going to need some more time functioning well and on his own before he feels really whole. That's all good.

I guess one thing is that there is a person living here that I don't know. Strangely, there is a certain level of comfort in predictable behavior, even when it's bad. I have to keep reminding myself that I DON'T know what he is going to do next, I DON"T know what he's going to say and I DON'T know what his reactions are going to be. I find myself too often, if not acting like the captive princess, at least thinking like her. All of the surprises have been good surprises so far. But the only script I know is the one where I play the damsel in distress and I am really not very good at improv. So I'm kind of disappointed in myself. Here he is all wart free and with two eyes in the right places and I haven't been able to adjust myself to the new scenario. I'd like to be able to feel and express the joy of running around in the sunshine, but I keep retreating back to the cave. Rasputin seems pretty much done and bored with the cave. If I can't get used to the light I can see him getting pretty much done and bored with me.

Flash of insight. Fear identified. The fear that if he doesn't need me, he won't want me. So what am I doing? Making sure I'm something he doesn't want so I can know how it's all going to turn out? Trying to be in control? Oh noooooooooo!!!!

Oh dear. I have to stop and go think about me some more.

Thanks for the eyes and ears.
Dop

Morning Glory

It's the mirror trick. He's the mirror and you're not sure who you are looking at now. Are you feeling kind of invisible?

Hugs,
MG

Doppelganger

Not invisible really. Maybe very very blurry.

JT

Dop,

It sounds like an elephant of a different color. Smells the same tho.

A new game requires a new game plan. You are after all playing a different team with a much better coach. The rules, however remain the same. Keep the focus on you, an attitude of gratitude, information gathering. In the case of the sober Rasputin maybe the only rule that has subtly changed is you can test the honesty waters a bit more safely. Teamwork!

Hugs,
JT

Doppelganger

Hi JT ,

I've been thinking about this a little more. That's a lie. It's the foremost thing on my mind.

Y'know that incredibly unfettered and rosey feeling you get when not only are they working on themselves, they're doing it someplace else and you are not any part of it? All you have to think about is you. I've never been in jail, but I imagine it's something like the feeling you have when you get out. Freedom! That's the feeling I want to hang onto, and it's eluding me. Having him here is resulting in my feeling cornered, and it's nothing he has done. He's been great. I love him and I'm proud of him. It's me that has all the old baggage cluttering up the closets.

Here's a puzzler. I'm at my worst when he does something... for want of a better word... nurturing. If he wants to run an errand, or help with a project, or cheer me up, or bring me a glass of ice when it's hot... well I just shut down. Sometimes it actually makes me mad. Now that's insane and I don't know where it comes from. Maybe ... oh I don't know. Maybe it's that I learned to think about me but I haven't learned how to let someone else think about me? Perhaps I have taken the selfishness thing too far.

Now the easiest thing in the world would be to just let him go his own way when it's feasable. But I don't think you can learn how to conduct yourself in a reciprocal relationship in a vacuum. Teamwork? Obviously I don't know how. I guess I have to decide if I want to learn and what I'm willing to do. And it's very weird to suddenly find yourself on the receiving end of patience and indulgeance.

I feel like the dog who caught the car it was chasing. I never expected THAT to happen. Now what do I do?

I know this is small potatoes. He's alive, he's sober, he's accomplishing things. I'm alive, I'm sober... I'm in a rut. Anybody want to start a past-anon group?

journeygal

Hey, sign me up for that past-anon group....

Could it be that you're not ready to trust him to be nurturing, supportive, to be there for you, and you're trying to protect yourself in case one day down the road he ends up not being there? Orrrrr, is it more like, "How dare you be there for me now when you weren't before and I needed you to be?"

(I'm just throwing out thoughts here - forgive me if I'm totally off base!!!! )

I totally understand the fear. But there's nothing he can do to make up for the 6 years of hell. I think eventually it will take a leap of faith to start relating to him as the person he is now, and not as the possessed ogre he was before.

But there's no need to be hard on yourself or try to rush things. One day at a time.

JT

Dop,

At least you are aware of it. What if you were snapping at him for a shoulder rub and not looking at it.

This ACOA stuff has me whirling a bit. I was just reading that adult children have no sense of what is normal. Normal was never modeled. Could there be a clue in there somewhere? I don't know.

I do know the only time I allowed myself to be taken care of was after the daughter in law's death. Ward did most of the cooking, patiently and was at his most nurturing. And I tolerated it for lack of a better word.

We have had to change our reactions before and now the status quo has been upset for you, once again. You are doing the right thing by looking at it. You did it successfully once, I know you can do it again.

Also in the interest of keeping it simple...you are not used to having him around. You are not used to having ANYONE around on a daily basis. If you wanted a cool drink you got it yourself. You have become a very independent individual and I doubt if you will ever become dependent if that is what your fear is.

Hugs,
JT

Doppelganger

Oh, I don't knooooooooooow!!!! Maybe it is something to do with coming from an alcoholic home. I don't think it's about being afraid the rug will be pulled out from under me... I guess I just got so used to the bare floor that the rug feels weird and uncomfortable.

I had to laugh when JT mentioned shoulder rubs. I can't stand 'em. Not from anybody. I guess I have a long history of not liking people to do things for me.

Anyway thanks for the thoughts. I will ponder them. I'm not sure why it was easier to give money and take-care-of-it-allness than it is to give smiles and thank yous. Bad habits. Gonna break 'em.

Dop

Stephanie

This is my take Dop. I may be totally off but I'm going to give it a whirl.

JT mentioned some of the adult child stuff and I do think that's a big part of it. It wasn't a mistake that you picked Rasputin. According to all the psychobabble books, we pick someone with qualities that we are used to dealing with, those that are familiar, and those that we have a lot of unfinished business with. Namely our parents. Even though Rasputin drove you crazy you picked him because of those very things that drove you crazy, hit a bottom with it and started getting help to work through some stuff.

You have definitely come far in terms of taking care of yourself and setting boundaries with people, etc. In my opinion you're being faced with the next step of personal growth in your life. I am not sure what it is exactly but I think it has something to do with being able to co-exist peacefully in a relationship where there are not so many unhealthy diversions to help you de-focus off your unfinished business. This is just an educated guess. What if someone treating you well makes you cringe because the thing you want to do most is cause conflict so you don't have to deal with the emotions that come up for you when real intimacy starts to rear itself.

For me when I am faced with a similar situation my "I'm not good enough self makes an appearance" Not to mention the fear of abandonment stuff. Whatever your fears or issues are would be what would come up for you when faced with healthy relating because it's new. You're so smart and you're always thinking so I think you know how you're suppose to act but your impulse is to act another way so you just don't do anything. I wish I was that emotionally stable. I usually know how I'm suppose to act but I can never control my impulses for very long. I wear them on my sleeve.

This of course is a theory. Do with it what you like. Really it's just a guess.

Doppelganger

Saaaay... that's good. I've thought about that choosing a partner like your Dad thing. Actually, aside from being animal lovers Rasputin and my Dad could not be much more different. As Rasputin was using, that is. I have no idea what my Dad was like not drinking. I'd have to say that clean, R has some of Dad's good qualities... but he's really more like my mom... who's a teetotaler. LOL But your point about emotional distance I think is right on the money. There was love at our house growing up, but it was not... hmmm... affectionate? demonstrative? We were a very reserved group. I don't know if that should be assigned to alcoholism or if it's simply a cultural thing. Except when my grandmother and my Dad died, I probably haven't put my arms around my mother since I was a very small child. I remember it feeling very odd to hug my brother at my Dad's funeral.

I think I should have titled this thread "Dop's guts on toast."

Rasputin's family is completely opposite. They're kind of in each other's faces for better or worse. So maybe part of what I'm dealing with here is a basic difference in the way we've learned to display feelings. When he was using I didn't have to deal with his emotions. They weren't real. At least... I discounted them as not real. Now when he's playful, or moody, or earnest or interested (read that "probing") .. I have to accept it at face value. And I've just realized that I find that intrusive. Well I'll be.

When I first saw him, more than half my life ago, I remember being intrigued by his fire. He has always said he admires my calm. So in a way I think we were more brought together by the differences from our homelife that by similarities. But maybe that's the problem. A problem. LOL

More fuel for internal combustion.

Thanks!
Dop

Gypsygirlmom

Dopp,

Acceptance.

I think you are starting to hit this on the head yourself. In your second post, you mentioned freedom. Acceptance leads to that Freedom. And we accept by Letting Go. Not necessarily of him Dopp, but of our "old, worn out, & useless ways" that don't work for us anymore.

Interestingly, the meeting I went to Thur. ended up being about that very freedom you are talking about. And acceptance of ourselves. I too so want that freedom to just be. And it seems that I have to really accept me, as I am, before I can let it go and make way for new changes. Am I making any sense? I think I am confusing myself now!!

I think everyone has really good ideas, and the adult child I think is a huge part. In talking with my councelor....am supposed to try and replace my self-protective devices with normal thinking. My comment was well then "What the H#ll is normal" How would I know then?? Point being, look back...why do you hate someone doing something for you? Why does it make you uncomfortable? I have the same prob. It is easier to do for someone else, then feel the uncomfortableness of saying Thank you. Why? Most of all of our shortcomings boil down to FEAR. I have been asking my HP to remove my fears lately, but trying to analyze (need to stop that analyzing stuff!!!) where the fear is REALLY coming from. If someone gives me a compliment, and I just mutter, look at my shoes and am uncomfortable....then it usually means I am reacting today from a past experience. Or how I had learned how to react. A's sponsor once told me, it is alot easier for a codep. to recover being in a relationship than not. You have something to mirror back at you.

Ok, I am rambling again!!! Just my opinion, and obviously easier said than done! Hope it helps a little anyways.

Hugs,

Doppelganger

Oh goody! More attention !

Hi Gypsy!

Do I have to understand me before I accept me? This could take a long time. Maybe when I get this more straightened out in my mind, I'll actually talk to Rasputin about it. He's always begging me to talk to him. Can you imagine? Strange how in our perceptions fire turned to melodrama and calm turned to cold.

Does anybody remember the old "Lil' Abner" comic strip? Lil' Abner was this big hunk of a country bumpkin who had a sweet girlfriend named Daisy Mae. There was also this character called Hot Lips McSomething. She went around Dogpatch smooching all the men and the heat from her lips fried their brains. Lil' Abner was known to have caused frostbite to those who had visited their affection upon his face. Anyway Hot Lips got a thing for Lil' Abner and chased him around through several Sunday strips. Mammy and Pappy and Daisy Mae and the whole clan were trying to sheild Lil' Abner and keep Hot Lips from frying his brain. But she caught him. Funny thing happened. Her heat and his cold cancelled each other out and they both acheived normal lip temperatures and were able to go on to normal relationships.

What do you think are the chances?

Dop

Stephanie

Actually, my husband is just like my mother...or he at least he has some of the things that really push my buttons like my mother does. I have actually worked out everything with my mother because of being with my husband. I did all my adult child work when we were dating. Now she doesn't get to me at all anymore...course now he does.......But anyway, it doesn't have to be a particular person that your partner reminds you of it is actually usually within what your partner brings out in you that mirrors something significant in your past.

I am going to change the subject seemingly, but I do have a point relative to our discussion. My sponsor said one of the biggest parts of the disease of addiction is isolation. She called me last nigt and wanted to go to a meeting. About a week ago we were having some intense discussions and then, to put it bluntly....this week has sucked for me in every way. I haven't called her and really now that I think about it, I haven't called anyone or returned anyones calls. I told her that when I don't feel good or I'm having a hard time, I don't want to talk to people or be around people, I'd rather be by myself and organize my closet or something. She said that's the disease talking. The disease wants me to isolate. When I'm around other people and every thing is good, it's fine, but when I'm not doing so good and I'm around other people it feels 10 times worse. By myself I have ways to block it out and be numb to it. I watch tv, eat ice-cream, play with my kids, etc. It's a comfort zone but then I'm not dealing with what's coming up for me. Also isolating usually leads to more isolating. On Tuesday I came up with an excuse as to why the 2 yr old wasn't going to pre-school and why the 1 yr old wasn't going to play group and we went to this playland place and to lunch and had a ball. But the point is I rationalized in my mind and came up with reasons why I didn't have to have interaction with people that I know. What was I avoiding. What was I afraid of?

I'm not going to go into why I brought this up because you'll be able to see it pretty clearly if we're on the same page. Or you may have no idea what I'm talking about. LOL

Gypsygirlmom

LOL

Dopp, I think your chances are excellent!! If "Lil' Abner could do it, I've no doubt you could too!!!

Sometimes I thinks we make this way more complicated for ourselves!!!! Maybe, I thinks, we need to just BE!

I thinks I thinks too much so late

Stephanie

Hey Gypsy,

I defintely see your point. But I find when I take a deeper look into some of the stuff, on a night like tonight, when I'm feeling introspective, then it free's me up....to do just that......to just BE

Gypsygirlmom

WOW Steph! Don't know if it helped Dopp at all, but you sure described what I do! And if I am around other people, that upsets my balance of blocking it out. And I start to get irritated! Hmmmm.....

Now Dopp here, did not come from a touchy/feely family, like I didn't. And I am uncomfortable with touchy/feely people. But had I been raised in a warm caring loving home where that was normal, I wouldn't have a problem with it, because I would have been raised to accept this as normal. If someone tries to put their normal on me, I react with my own uncomfortableness. My mother was not a very nurturing person, can't remember hugs...anyways, perhaps Dopp doesn't know how to feel comfortable with this type of love, attention...so she puts up protective devices?

(I'm just wandering around here...)

Doppelganger

Got it... not Hot Lips... STUPEFYIN' JONES! And I doubt the irony of stupefyin' and jones being used together escapes many here.

ummm... ahhhh..... I thiiiiink I got you Steph. But couldn't it just be that you didn't feel like being jangled? People can be so jangly.

Well golly... I've got a lot to think about. I think I'll go read about other people's confusion for awhile.

Thanks all!
Dop

Stephanie

Definitely Jangly

Doppelganger

eeep... there was more!

I think that's it exactly Gypsy. Now for pete's sake I have to figure out what to do about it.

Gypsygirlmom

Ah............the fun part :cube: