Jomey

Hi everyone - I spent a lot of time reading lately, but this is my first post in Friends & Family. The active alcoholic in my life is my brother.

I have been in recovery for almost 19 months and I was a very "high bottom" alcoholic. I don't think that makes me better or worse than anyone, but I simply can't understand the things my brother is doing, even though I drank more than I should have for many years. I know it sounds petty, and I really don't mean it to sound like a comparison between us.

I don't even really know what my question is, or if I have one, I just needed to tell some folks who understand how difficult I am finding it to have my brother in my life.

I am raising his daughter, and his son is now living with his soon to be ex-wife's parents. I am at wit's end with my parents enabling my brother's drinking, with the chaos it causes in our family....my brother does something stupid like drive drunk, etc. and the phone calls start flying back and forth between my parents, my other siblings, etc. My parents call constantly to check that my neice is safe here - for heaven's sake, we have legal custody of her and my husband is a recently retired police officer! She's safe! We live in a 150 year old house, so there is no insulation, nowhere where I can go to have a private phone conversation, so all the kids hear everything I say. I don't think my neice needs to know that my parents are so worried for her safety. My own three children dont' need to hear it all either. They are all under 12 years old!

I know I should not take the calls all the time, but I am having a hard time stopping myself. I feel crazy - I want the chaos to stop, at least in our home, where my DH and I can have some control over it, but I have such a hard time not picking up the phone.

On top of everything else, we are coping with a death in the family on my husband's side, and my brother picks now to start up with "drunk in public" behavior again. I have no patience left for any of it.

I tried Al-anon and I liked it, but I can not make meetings right now because of time/distance constraints, but I hope to go back as soon as I can. In the meantime, thank you for listening.


Jomey

faith2overcome

Sounds like you're in a tough spot, but you also seem to be managing pretty well considering... My husband is an alcoholic, and his whole family has an addiction of some sort...His brother is the worst - still heavy heroin user, running from courts in 3 states, a lot of terrible behavior to even all of the family members he could manage to scam or steal from...I pretty much stay away from him and don't want to hear about him anymore until (if ever) he is doing better, but it's a different situation because, although he does have a son, the baby's mom takes care of him just fine, and he isn't interested in keeping in touch with the baby, either. I hope that whatever happens with your brother, you and your family are just able to protect and care for his little girl. It seems like you're doing a good job...hang in there.

GiveLove

Jomey, I'm so glad you found us. There's a lot of support here for you whenever you need it.

I'm also glad that your brother's daughter has found a stable home with you. That's so important. I was raised in the chaos of an alcoholic home, and sometimes wonder what I could've accomplished in life if I hadn't had to spend decades healing/recovering from that experience.

You know what I'm going to say, right?

This is a skill that you have to learn, for your own sake, and for your family's sake. I understand how easy it is to be drawn into the family drama. It feels GOOD, in a sick kind of way, like certain kinds of gossip or reality TV or reading tragic books can feel good. It jolts something inside us and makes us feel alive and needed. It is how many of us were wired...and it's very, VERY hard to break that habit.

But it's something you have to do --- answering that phone doesn't help ANYTHING. All it does is throw you back into the chaos of things you cannot control. The temporary gratification of letting yourself get sucked into a psycho phone call is disturbing to everything you hold dear, and may be damaging your kids' trust and self-confidence in ways you can't anticipate.

I didn't start getting better until I slowly, a little at a time, detached myself from the chaos. I hope you can do the same.

Hang in there -- you are going through an enormous amount of stress right now and you need to take tender care of yourself. Don't let anyone add to your stress. Your brother's choices are not something you can control...you have your own life to build.

Hugs,
GL

Freedom1990

Lots of good information in those two paragraphs! Family drama is one of my mom's specialties, and when she really gets going, my dad engages in in it too!

I have literally had to go no contact at times with my parents because of toxic behavior/attitudes.

Was it uncomfortable? You bet. However, as I continued to do what I needed to do for my own sanity, it did get easier.

Jomey

Thank you all for the support - it really means alot!

GiveLove, what you said about why I answer the phone was such a great paragraph...it made me really think about why I am doing that. You know what? I'm sure there is truth to the gossip/reality TV thing, but when I really look at my motives, it seems to be mostly hope. Stupid, useless hope that somehow this phone call is going to be the one that actually does fix the situation. That someone in the family (my other brothers are pretty stable guys) is going to have the solution, a suggestion, something, anything that is going to give us some realistic hope. I know I sound pathetic, grasping at straws, but I that is what I am doing. You are so, so right that I need to stop.

I have had to detach from my parents before....for their chaos that they create themselves and their enabling of my brother and their constant discomfort with my sobriety. Its been everything from me talking gentley to them to my husband running them off our farm. It stinks, but I know I can do it if I have to. I am very weary, but I need to find the reserve of strength I need for the kids. I admire you, Freedom, because I know how hard it is to remove toxic family members from your life.

My brothers and I grew up close, and my husband and I met when he was one of my brother's best friends back in junior high, so I always hoped we would all stay together, one for all and all for one....this hurts more than my parents' crazy making behavior. But, we do what we have to, right?

Thank you all for the support and affirming that my neice is better off here with us...sometimes even that seems crazy when everyone else in my family tries to make me doubt things.

Please keep the feedback coming...it really helps! Jomey
__________________

Bernadette

Hi Jomey- welcome-
Just want to encourage you as you seek answers for this tough stuff!

I know I should not take the calls all the time, but I am having a hard time stopping myself.

That's good news! Because that is one thing in this sutuation you CAN control! In my journey towards getting my sanity back that I allowed alcoholics to steal, I often dreaded looking at those things that were "hard" to do. But the good news is they are not Impossible - they are just hard. And I am not special, so I can assure you that if you choose to get very specific and serious and tackle these hard things then you too can make a change!

It always helps me to have a plan.

Can you make a plan to help you avoid these phone calls? Screen calls? Or have a pow-wow with Mom and explain it to her, calmly, and tell her what you're willing to accept. Maybe if you pre-emptively call her 2x a week at a set time(y'know, whatever is comfortable for you) when your house is quiet and tell her all is well there at home w/ the kids, that might settle her?

I had a few months of conversations with my mother about my Abrothers where I felt like a broken record - she'd be spewing drama and what-ifs and Oh My Gods, and I just kept repeating, like a robot, "Mom It's his choice, and his consequences" over and over! To anything she would say about my brothers, I learned to either say "Oh." "Hunh." or "That's his choice." It pretty much drained the drama right out of our conversations and stopped being so satisfying to her and so she stopped talking to me about it in that way.

It is very smart of you to be aware that those kinds of dramatic phone calls are upsetting to your household, especially children. Keeping your focus on that as a priority will be a good guide. I hope you can get back to AlAnon soon-- that's where I learned most of my good tools for dealing with this stuff.

peace,
b

GiveLove

I understand, Jomey. It's so hard - you always think that THIS TIME the call will hold good news, or something tangible and effective we can DO. I did that for so long.

But I have to look at it this way: I have caller ID and voicemail for a reason. It is so I can protect my precious serenity.

I let a lot of family stuff go to voicemail. That way, when I punch "1" (play messages) I can review the message and determine in the first few seconds whether it's something that is helpful or hurtful to me. I can listen to it in private, where others in my house can't hear it, and where I'm not speaking out loud, just listening.

If it's another "YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!" kind of message, well, I know how to punch "33" to fast-forward to the end and "7" to delete it.

If it's actually something constructive, I can respond when I'm alone in the house or from a cell phone in a private space.

Then I can hang up. Take five really deep, cleansing breaths, and get back to the business of building more happiness into my life.

You can do this too. I know you have hopes and fantasies of how you'd like things to have turned out, the happiness that would've brought. But I can tell you that there's an equal amount of joy that's being drummed out of your life by your toxic family situation. Doesn't help your brother, doesn't help your sobriety, doesn't serve anything really except your family members' need to enable.

Take care of YOU, your health, your life, your kids. Whatever it takes.
:ghug

Astro

Hey Jomey, good to see you over here seeking support and encouragement, you've already got some excellent suggestions so I can't add much more.

You're going through so much, that's quite a plateful of life you're dealing with. I too deal with a few drama pro's in my life, my Dad's an active alcoholic and a real handful, one brother's a dry-drunk while the other one is high-functioning. But I love 'em all and the codependent side of me always wants to be there to help and support them. That comes back to bite me in the butt more often than not.

Early in recovery I was told by my sponsor: Whatever anyone else says, thinks, or does is none of my business unless I'm invited in and make the decision to engage in their issue. Detachment and boundaries are skills that I learned in the writings, readings, and rooms of Codependents Anonymous. I don't think I'll ever master those techniques perfectly, but I continue to work on them and attend meetings every week.

I hope you continue to focus on what's best for the kids, your family, and most of all yourself. That's what's really important, you're leading by your fine example. Well done!

LucyA

Jomey, you're doing a great job.
I struggled too with my parents enabling my brother, and the same kind of phone calls from them to me. You are in a very similar, in fact almost identical, situation to mine this time last year. I found it difficult at first to let the phone calls go, they're my parents after all! however it became easier after the first few I ignored, and easier still after I said 'I'm sorry mum, but you know theres nothing I can say or do that will change anything. I love my brother but I can't get involved'
My mum did have a tough time with that at first, but once she realised I wasn't going back on what I'd said she began to respect my feelings, and I feel our relationship is much better for it now.

Jomey

Wow, guys, I can't thank you enough for all the support. My head is kinda swimming with all the powerful stuff you have shared, and with coping with my sister-in-law's death....we are leaving the house shortly for the final family viewing.

One thing I want to ask and will check back in tomorrow to see what yall think....this just jumped out at me of all the important things written here:

I would like very much to do that...make a change....the phone calls are one thing I know I have to work on. Boundaries with my enabling parents is another.

My own recovery is in ways so much easier because I know what I need, I am getting more in touch with myself every day and I know what is working and what isn't. I am not nearly so sure when it comes to my brother.

What specific changes did yall make to set boundaries and learn to detach from the chaos? Concrete examples are usually easiest for me to understand...just the way my mind works....can anyone share?

I really have to digest all this beautiful sharing, esp. after the funeral tomorrow, just want yall to know how grateful I am for this haven of sanity!

Jomey

LucyA

Your own recovery is the whole thing! The parts of it that include your brother are still your own recovery, you know you can't change him, but you can change you so that you aren't affected, that's still YOUR recovery.

Look after yourself, be 'selfish', and give yourself a break. You're doing a damned hard job looking after four kids, that's your way of supporting your brother without enabling him. Love him and let him go his own way.

To be honest I'm finding it difficult to share here, but read my old threads, we're very similar, and the responses to some of my threads will be relevant and helpful to your situation too.

Astro

From CoDA's Patterns & Characteristics, these are some of the things I identify with and try to focus on:

Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.

Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.

Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.

Jomey, I still have trouble with the word NO, I have a hard time with becoming depressed when others around me behave that way, and I also find it difficult not to react to someone else's feelings or opinions. Baby steps, I'll probably always be a work in progress.

Jomey

Lucy, thank you for sharing despite the cost to yourself. I appreciate that more than you know. I will definitely check back through your threads and I'm sure I will learn from them. Again, thank you for giving of yourself for me and my family.

Astro, ok, somehow, we are really are twins born in different years with different parents! Thank you, my friend, for taking the time to post all that information. It is soooo helpful you wouldn't believe it. I printed it out so I can look at it later tonight, and I'm sure, many times again after that.

I also want to share with yall that my brother showed up at my sister-in-law's viewing last night, drunk beyond drunk, and told one of my brothers-in-law that he (my brother himself) would be better off dead. He is now on psychiatric hold at the hospital for a mandatory 72 hours due to threatening suicide, but the doctor called this morning and said there is definitely a psychiatric disorder other than depression and alcoholism going on, and they would like to refer him for long term care in a psychiatric hospital in a bigger town, better equipped to handle him. He told the doctor he is willing to go, so we'll see. He will need to be driven to the hospital, and I would be willing to take him to the long term care facility if his wife won't, so I may be doing that today after the funeral.

Thank you for all your support. Ill check back in when I can. If you are a praying person, please pray for him and my family.

Jomey

Freedom1990

You definitely have my prayers here in Kansas! :praying

Astro

Jomey, you might want to print out the whole list that's on CoDA's website, there's other good information on the site as well as meeting info Co-dependents Anonymous

Jomey

Lucy....I just looked back at your posts....You are an amazing person....you are right, our situations are much alike....I hope I will have your grace and courage to give my neice what you have given to your nephew. I will pray that all of you will feel peace, esp. your brother.

Astro, I will definitely follow up on the link. Thank you.

My brother's BP is dangerously high right now, so he will remain at the hospital where he is for the time being.

Thank you all for the prayers.

Dee74

(((JJ))))

I'm praying for you and your family, Twinnie
I guess this means you I and Astro are triplets now....

much love
D

Jadmack25

My prayers are with you also. My sister is back on her 3 bottles of wine a night after going thru a non drinking 2 weeks while her daughter was here to introduce the new fiancee to the family. I don't get toxic calls from my mum as at 98 she has seen it all before and just says to hope and pray as we can do nothing to stop her. Mum may not have ever been to Alanon, read any literature and knows nothing about the steps, but she behaves as if she wrote them. I watch her and learn that she cares for herself first, doesn't interfere in lives and accepts folk as they are, with respect and courtesy for all.

Can only say that the idea of talking to your mum and if that doesn't work, using voicemail may be what you need to do.

God bless

Jomey

You are lucky and blessed to have such a wonderful mom, Jadmack....I have talked to my mom so many times about her behavior that it is like spittin in the wind....I put energy into it and it just comes right back in my face!

After my brother's disgusting display at the viewing, my neice (his daughter) is going for an extra session with her counselor today and I am planning to make an appointment for myself. My brother is still in the hospital with high BP, but who knows what will happen after the DTs wear off, so I have to get prepared.

Voicemail it is for right now - I have too much to worry about that I can actually make a positive impact on without trying to control my brother and parents.

Thanks for the advice and tell your mom I said God bless her!

Jomey