Feeling Stuck due to Guilt and...Compassion?
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Feeling Stuck due to Guilt and...Compassion?
Whenever I post a new thread like this, I don't know how much of my "story" I should reiterate or not--I don't want to be redundant but then I don't want to confuse someone who knows none of it. So, to be brief--I'm separated from, and in the process of divorcing my AH. The last straw leading up to me getting the courage to do this was him physically abusing me. Since that time, he relapsed once more, and now is back on the sober wagon yet again. After I had moved out, but before the relapse, he was sober and seemed to be very remorseful, etc. etc. At that time, I told him that if he was able to seek true recovery, go to AA and counseling, get and keep a JOB, that in a year's time or so I would consider resuming a relationship with him....in fact, I went so far to promise him that I wouldn't date anyone else during that time. Duriing his latest relapse, an old boyfriend reconnected with me, and what started out as a friendly reconnection has turned romantic. He's fully aware of my situation, and knows that I feel not ready for anything heavy at the present time. We're both very attracted to each other though, so it's been hard to not lean on him more and have things develop more rapidly, but I do feel I've done my best to be as honest with him as I can. I've even gone so far as to tell him that I can't 100% guarantee I would never want a relationship with my STBXAH again if he could truly change.
So of course, now I feel like crap that I ever made that promise to my AH in the first place (the not-datinig-for-a-year one). I HAVE told him that that promise is now off the table because of his relapse and because I have since thought better of making such a commitment to someone that I am DIVORCING. What I have not done is told him that I am actually dating someone now, although I think a part of him suspects (in fact, he even guessed who it was once). For a day or so, I was really torn up with trying to decide if just telling him was for the best, but after some careful consideration and the sage advice of quite a few people, I ultimately felt that A. It was not his business, and B. it would certainly make our divorce uglier and more drawn out, and I don't want that.
(Sorry, bear with me, this is a long one...)
So since I've told him that I take back the one-year promise, and that I'm no longer in the business of predicting the future, that I will always "love him" but in an "I care about your well-being" way and not in a romantic way, he's vacillated between telling me what a terrible person I am to do this to him when he's already feeling down and newly sober and trying to work a program (he's gone to two AA meetings), to telling me that he feels like he's losing his mind, that if I leave him he has no hope, that he'll have to be committed if he ever learns I'm dating someone else, to where he has been for the last few days, which is--basically, pretending like I never said anything, telling me he knows it will all work out between us in the future, because our love is so strong, and alcohol was really our only problem,and he knows once he commits to recovery and proves it we'll be together again as a family. Of course, all of these reactions make me feel like ****, particularly knowing what I know about how I feel about the new guy. The thing is, I do still love my husband too, but not really in the same way anymore. However, as I told the new guy, I still can't say with 100% certainty I wouldn't ever want him again, I'm just not willing to put my life on hold to "wait and see". I know the best thing right now would be to stop all contact with him except for that which pertains to our daughter, but I'm just not there yet...mainly because he truly has no one else to talk to except for one very busy sister (although I suppose he could get more involved in AA and talk to people there, huh?) I mean, does AA work like that? If you have no social life, no friends, are there people there willing to talk with you on the phone, or go out to eat with you, etc?
All right, now I'm rambling...I'm just feeling a lot of guilt over the whole situation, most of it misplaced I know. And I wish there were a way I could make him "stop loving me". I get tired of him constantly telling me I'm the love of his life and he'll never be happy without me. The thing is, I know how he feels because I used to feel the same way. When he's not drinking, he's right, we have our troubles, but we always had a lot in common and had a lot of love between us. I just feel like, if he remains sober this time, he's just going to come tumbling off the wagon again when he finally learns I'm dating someone else. And then part of me thinks, "why are you even worrying? He's going to start drinking again eventually, like he always does, so use that as your 'excuse' to be truly done when it inevitably happens." But then I feel guilty for rooting for him to fail! I'd like him to be in our daughter's life anyway, if possible. He's a good dad when he's sober.
I guess that's about it. Sorry for the lengthy post--I have a lot on my mind, obviously. I AM going to a therapist next week, so I'm excited about that anyway.
So of course, now I feel like crap that I ever made that promise to my AH in the first place (the not-datinig-for-a-year one). I HAVE told him that that promise is now off the table because of his relapse and because I have since thought better of making such a commitment to someone that I am DIVORCING. What I have not done is told him that I am actually dating someone now, although I think a part of him suspects (in fact, he even guessed who it was once). For a day or so, I was really torn up with trying to decide if just telling him was for the best, but after some careful consideration and the sage advice of quite a few people, I ultimately felt that A. It was not his business, and B. it would certainly make our divorce uglier and more drawn out, and I don't want that.
(Sorry, bear with me, this is a long one...)
So since I've told him that I take back the one-year promise, and that I'm no longer in the business of predicting the future, that I will always "love him" but in an "I care about your well-being" way and not in a romantic way, he's vacillated between telling me what a terrible person I am to do this to him when he's already feeling down and newly sober and trying to work a program (he's gone to two AA meetings), to telling me that he feels like he's losing his mind, that if I leave him he has no hope, that he'll have to be committed if he ever learns I'm dating someone else, to where he has been for the last few days, which is--basically, pretending like I never said anything, telling me he knows it will all work out between us in the future, because our love is so strong, and alcohol was really our only problem,and he knows once he commits to recovery and proves it we'll be together again as a family. Of course, all of these reactions make me feel like ****, particularly knowing what I know about how I feel about the new guy. The thing is, I do still love my husband too, but not really in the same way anymore. However, as I told the new guy, I still can't say with 100% certainty I wouldn't ever want him again, I'm just not willing to put my life on hold to "wait and see". I know the best thing right now would be to stop all contact with him except for that which pertains to our daughter, but I'm just not there yet...mainly because he truly has no one else to talk to except for one very busy sister (although I suppose he could get more involved in AA and talk to people there, huh?) I mean, does AA work like that? If you have no social life, no friends, are there people there willing to talk with you on the phone, or go out to eat with you, etc?
All right, now I'm rambling...I'm just feeling a lot of guilt over the whole situation, most of it misplaced I know. And I wish there were a way I could make him "stop loving me". I get tired of him constantly telling me I'm the love of his life and he'll never be happy without me. The thing is, I know how he feels because I used to feel the same way. When he's not drinking, he's right, we have our troubles, but we always had a lot in common and had a lot of love between us. I just feel like, if he remains sober this time, he's just going to come tumbling off the wagon again when he finally learns I'm dating someone else. And then part of me thinks, "why are you even worrying? He's going to start drinking again eventually, like he always does, so use that as your 'excuse' to be truly done when it inevitably happens." But then I feel guilty for rooting for him to fail! I'd like him to be in our daughter's life anyway, if possible. He's a good dad when he's sober.
I guess that's about it. Sorry for the lengthy post--I have a lot on my mind, obviously. I AM going to a therapist next week, so I'm excited about that anyway.
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Is it compassion or pity? You don't have to answer that-just think about it.
It's hard not to pick up the guilt when someone throws it at you. Like anything else in my life, I finally quit picking the guilt up when the bag got so damned heavy to drag around behind me that I just couldn't do it anymore.
Next time you feel that little tug at your heartstrings, think about when he physically abused you.
We have a tendency to use selective memory and forget the ugliness, don't we?
It's hard not to pick up the guilt when someone throws it at you. Like anything else in my life, I finally quit picking the guilt up when the bag got so damned heavy to drag around behind me that I just couldn't do it anymore.
Next time you feel that little tug at your heartstrings, think about when he physically abused you.
We have a tendency to use selective memory and forget the ugliness, don't we?
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You know, I almost titled the thread "guilt and pity" but I changed it to compassion because there is still a core of love there that makes it feel like compassion to me when I feel sorry that he's hurting.
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Mambo Queen, don't be so hard on yourself! Let go of the guilt. Remember the three C's. You won't 'cause' him to drink by seeing someone else, you're just not that powerful!
It does sound as if he is still trying to control you using emotional blackmail. My AH manipulated me that way for a very long time before I reached my bottom.
You're getting divorced. He's a grown up. You do NOT have to be his only 'source' of friendship - though by berating you and then laying on the I love you's thickly, I'm not sure if he's even worthy of being a friend! Why should you maintain contact? What do you get out of it other than another load of drama and guilt? Making friends is something that he has to do for himself!
Try reading over the first few steps and let it go...
It does sound as if he is still trying to control you using emotional blackmail. My AH manipulated me that way for a very long time before I reached my bottom.
You're getting divorced. He's a grown up. You do NOT have to be his only 'source' of friendship - though by berating you and then laying on the I love you's thickly, I'm not sure if he's even worthy of being a friend! Why should you maintain contact? What do you get out of it other than another load of drama and guilt? Making friends is something that he has to do for himself!
Try reading over the first few steps and let it go...
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Originally Posted by Mambo Queen 
You know, I almost titled the thread "guilt and pity" but I changed it to compassion because there is still a core of love there that makes it feel like compassion to me when I feel sorry that he's hurting.
He wasn't feeling any compassion for you when he got physically abusive with you, was he?
When all was said and done with my EXAH, the truth of the matter was he was an abuser in every sense of the word.
There was no compassion by the time the divorce was final, guaranteed.
No one deserves to be treated that way, not me, and and not you. :ghug
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
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(((Mambo Queen)))) I can see you have alot on your mind, and you are in my prayers. The only thing I can say is, ditto to what Freedom said about your STBXAH not having any compassion for you while he was doing what he was doing, and also, that with the disease of alcoholism, there is always that threat of relapse, ALWAYS!!!! My husband was sober for over 15 years straight (not one relapse) and I thought we were in the clear! Needless to say, he relapsed after that for six years straight!!! He is now in recovery again for almost 4 months, but like I said, relapse is always part of the disease. Pray for guidance, and I know you'll do what is best for you.
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Originally Posted by Mambo Queen
I mean, does AA work like that? If you have no social life, no friends, are there people there willing to talk with you on the phone, or go out to eat with you, etc?
Big difference.
Folks who take recovery seriously, who work the AA 12 steps are a WONDERFUL group of people with HUGE hearts and compassion, and THEY UNDERSTAND ALCOHOLICS. They've been there, and learned to live sober. They also call an alkie on any BS, flat out. There is a CLEAR quality to folks in serious recovery that is very tangible: not only do they not obsess on drinking, they are happy, joyous, and free, have a spirit of humility that is willing to look at different angles of a viewpoint and consider they may be wrong, are able to look for opportunities to GIVE BACK rather than what's in it for them, and understand patience and tolerance. They understand they are not the center of existence and that there is something larger, their personal higher power, who should direct their lives and wills. This of course develops over years of 12 step work, not right away. But in essence, their spirits and attitudes change dramatically; it's not just a cessation of drinking and the problems associated with it.
These are the people a recovering alcoholic needs to hang with, not a traumatized codie trying to recover their damage.
The best thing I ever did was go hang out, respectfully and quietly, in many, many open AA meetings, to see REAL recovery. It took away any confusion about what is real and what is BS, and made things crystal clear. It also made crystal clear to me that these were the people for an alkie to lean on, the experts. I now know what recovery looks like, that it CAN happen, and that it only happens when the person does it for themself, and uses the correct peer group for support and accountability.
It cleaned me totally of any guilty feelings!
CLMI
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he's vacillated between telling me what a terrible person I am to do this to him when he's already feeling down and newly sober and trying to work a program (he's gone to two AA meetings), to telling me that he feels like he's losing his mind, that if I leave him he has no hope, that he'll have to be committed if he ever learns I'm dating someone else, to where he has been for the last few days, which is--basically, pretending like I never said anything, telling me he knows it will all work out between us in the future, because our love is so strong, and alcohol was really our only problem,and he knows once he commits to recovery and proves it we'll be together again as a family.
I am glad you rescinded that '1 year' thing. Go easy with the new (old) fellow as I am sure you are on the REBOUND and that is usually jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
Take this time to 'work on you.' Figure out what 'type of life' you want and how to go about getting it. We usually attract others by our insides, not our outsides, so ................get the insides healthy and good things will come.
As to your AH. Well .................................................. . personally I wouldn't worry about what he is doing for recovery and what he is not. Only time, lots and lots of time (maybe even 2 to 3 years) will show how 'serious' he is. If he is doing this 'for you' well it won't last. He has to want recovery MORE THAN HE WANTS TO DRINK, and he has to WANT IT FOR HIMSELF.
So, please, continue to work on you, in whatever way you have chosen. He is NOT the problem. Your reactions to him are.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Yep....that's pretty much exactly how I feel (what Anvilhead posted s/he picked up from my original post). I do recognize that it's not healthy, but it's the last big hurdle I have...I feel like I've done the healthy thing by separating, filing for divorce, even beginning to date, but this unhealthy feeling remains. I'm hoping very much that the therapist I'm going to see next week will begin to help me with this. And I have attended Al-Anon in the past, but didn't find it quite as helpful as I have found therapy in the past. Although, I will have a lot more free time in the summer (I'm a teacher, and right now I teach two night classes in addition to my day classes, plus I'm effectively raising our daughter mainly on my own) so I think I will add regular Al-Anon attendance to the repertoire then.
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I told myself that I was caring and compassionate. It made me feel good. I convinced myself that I was a good person for wanting to help him. When I finally sorted through all my issues in therapy, it became clear that all that compassion was a story I was telling myself. It was really the illusion of control that I had. The belief that I was somehow powerful enough to change someone else's choices, even change their life. True compassion sometimes means allowing others free will and accepting that I am not that powerful.
L
L
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I still feel compassion for xAH. He has put himself in a bad place and I feel bad for him, his daughters, his mother and all others affected y him and his choices. But it stops with compassion. I feel no responsibility. There is nothing I can do and I didn't cause it in anyway. I care but I do not stretch that caring and compassion into responsibility and guilt. Only he bears responsibility for his choices and their consequneces.
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There is a difference between compassion and HEALTHY Compassion.
I hate that my ex is still actively using and playing "Mr. Recovery", by attending meetings and acting like he's sober to his recovery buddies. I am saddened by the fact that our daughters and grandchildren are hurt by his actions and lies. I know without this disease in his life - somewhere hidden underneath that insanity - there use to live a man who woull never dream of doing the things he is doing today. It breaks my heart for all of us that that man is no longer present with us today.
B U T - I am not going to give away one more day, hour or minute of my precious life to someone who refuses to turn himself over to a power greater than this disease and live a life that is recovering from his disease.
I can have healthy compassion for the man we lost, but carry no guilt, shame nor unhealthy manipulative compassion for the man that is driven by a disease. Cunning, baffling and powerful disease that will take everything in it's pathway to feed it's addiction.
I will walk away to take care of me and allow his HP that ability to work in his life - that is my understand of Healthy Compassion!
HUGS to you, sweetie,
Rita
I hate that my ex is still actively using and playing "Mr. Recovery", by attending meetings and acting like he's sober to his recovery buddies. I am saddened by the fact that our daughters and grandchildren are hurt by his actions and lies. I know without this disease in his life - somewhere hidden underneath that insanity - there use to live a man who woull never dream of doing the things he is doing today. It breaks my heart for all of us that that man is no longer present with us today.
B U T - I am not going to give away one more day, hour or minute of my precious life to someone who refuses to turn himself over to a power greater than this disease and live a life that is recovering from his disease.
I can have healthy compassion for the man we lost, but carry no guilt, shame nor unhealthy manipulative compassion for the man that is driven by a disease. Cunning, baffling and powerful disease that will take everything in it's pathway to feed it's addiction.
I will walk away to take care of me and allow his HP that ability to work in his life - that is my understand of Healthy Compassion!
HUGS to you, sweetie,
Rita
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Dear Mambo Queen,
You know how you "just know" when it's the right time to do anything? You "feel" it. You need some time to heal yourself first before you're truly able to see the forest for the trees. We've been dealing with an A partner for so long that some of what we do, think, say and feel are habitual reactions. I'm thinking Laurie is right in saying any relationship you get into will be on the rebound and the potential complications at this time may add to your burdens not lighten them. I know how this may all be attractive to you and carry you away to a place that just feels damned good but....first figure out who you are and work on having the best relationship of your life with yourself.
When an A begins their recovery and goes to AA meetings they are told they can not begin a romantic relationship for at least one year. I've been to many Al-Anon meetings and believe their suggestions would be similiar to AA.
My STBXAB is back into rehab stating to me that he just can't shut off his love for me like one shuts a water faucet off. He knows all the right things to say to attempt to manipulate me back into the abyss of his dual dependent addictive life. I neither want to return to the "madness" nor start a new relationship with anyone until I figure out why I ever let someone else's needs take precedent over mine??? Why would I do that? I would also like to know what in H--l would make me think I have any special power over any one else's life but my own? I can give advice and even offer the tools to people but I must understand why I let myself get so beat up emotionally before I'm ready to cry uncle. You, me and them ALL ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE!!!! We are the sum of our own choices. If I or you decide to give the A "one more chance" because we feel they may never survive the journey to sobriety without us are we not being unrealistic about our power as a human being?
I understand you have a daughter together and that puts a different slant on things. Do you want your child to grow up thinking her parents' relationship is "normal"? The things my A has said to his children when he's drinking are abhorrent. Alcoholism gets worse the longer the A remains drinking.
I'm pleased to hear you'll be going to counseling. Look over some Hazelden reading material particularly by Melodie Beattie. She's a remarkable human being to be where she is today. Also Health Journeys website offers great cd's by Belle Ruth Naperstak and I suggest you get a guided imagery cd for self-esteem, depression and anything else you think would be helpful to you. It will help you while you are going to counseling as many deep rooted feelings will surface because of using these meditation cds.
For myself, I believe I needed this lesson because it has humbled me greatly. I'm only human and have no superhuman powers over anyone else beside myself. I'm looking forward to being true to myself first and being realistic about the person not just the potential I'm able to see in others.
I hope this helps you just a bit. I pray you make your decision based upon the inherent right we all have to be true to ourself first. We can only then make any one else happy.
God bless you and yours.
Alphawoman
You know how you "just know" when it's the right time to do anything? You "feel" it. You need some time to heal yourself first before you're truly able to see the forest for the trees. We've been dealing with an A partner for so long that some of what we do, think, say and feel are habitual reactions. I'm thinking Laurie is right in saying any relationship you get into will be on the rebound and the potential complications at this time may add to your burdens not lighten them. I know how this may all be attractive to you and carry you away to a place that just feels damned good but....first figure out who you are and work on having the best relationship of your life with yourself.
When an A begins their recovery and goes to AA meetings they are told they can not begin a romantic relationship for at least one year. I've been to many Al-Anon meetings and believe their suggestions would be similiar to AA.
My STBXAB is back into rehab stating to me that he just can't shut off his love for me like one shuts a water faucet off. He knows all the right things to say to attempt to manipulate me back into the abyss of his dual dependent addictive life. I neither want to return to the "madness" nor start a new relationship with anyone until I figure out why I ever let someone else's needs take precedent over mine??? Why would I do that? I would also like to know what in H--l would make me think I have any special power over any one else's life but my own? I can give advice and even offer the tools to people but I must understand why I let myself get so beat up emotionally before I'm ready to cry uncle. You, me and them ALL ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE!!!! We are the sum of our own choices. If I or you decide to give the A "one more chance" because we feel they may never survive the journey to sobriety without us are we not being unrealistic about our power as a human being?
I understand you have a daughter together and that puts a different slant on things. Do you want your child to grow up thinking her parents' relationship is "normal"? The things my A has said to his children when he's drinking are abhorrent. Alcoholism gets worse the longer the A remains drinking.
I'm pleased to hear you'll be going to counseling. Look over some Hazelden reading material particularly by Melodie Beattie. She's a remarkable human being to be where she is today. Also Health Journeys website offers great cd's by Belle Ruth Naperstak and I suggest you get a guided imagery cd for self-esteem, depression and anything else you think would be helpful to you. It will help you while you are going to counseling as many deep rooted feelings will surface because of using these meditation cds.
For myself, I believe I needed this lesson because it has humbled me greatly. I'm only human and have no superhuman powers over anyone else beside myself. I'm looking forward to being true to myself first and being realistic about the person not just the potential I'm able to see in others.
I hope this helps you just a bit. I pray you make your decision based upon the inherent right we all have to be true to ourself first. We can only then make any one else happy.
God bless you and yours.
Alphawoman
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