dolce7dolore

Step 5:

Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Step 8:

Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

Now I realize that these steps came from AA, but to be blunt, I'm having a hard time understanding why it didn't occur to these people to change some of the meaning/phrasing. To me, these statements are counterproductive for ACoAs. I could possibly see enablers/spouses fitting into these two steps because, although I empathize with these people, on some level they had the choice to walk away, much like, on some level, the alcoholic has that same choice. However, we as children do not have this choice. We did not choose to have alcohol in our lives and it was not our fault. I see these two steps as being an excuse for us to bash ourselves and further our low self-esteem.

dothi

This is just my two cents, but for the same reason I did not find following these steps particularly helpful in my own recovery. Though I am willing to admit my own mistakes and work to rectify them, I am tired of taking responsibility for the actions of others. Like you, I never asked for alcohol in my home environment, and its the actions of the alcoholic that have done the most damage - which is what I prefer to focus on in terms of recovery (letting go of the hurt, stop searching for acknowledgment/apology, change my reactions, etc.).

My route in recovery was through one-on-one counselling, with a very personalized approach to letting go/managing my ACoA baggage. I lucked out with a great counsellor who knew how much and when to push my denial/barriers. This was far more effective for me than trying to fit a generalized program, especially because as I changed my counsellor's approach changed with me to better suit my needs. Have you considered seeking a counsellor who has dealt with alcoholism/ACoAs?

GiveLove

Yeah, I hear you. I had trouble with that too.

I had to separate it from my situations with alcoholics to get through it. Instead of seeing it as "you wronged the A in your life" I had to see it as "you've wronged others as a result of the bad behaviors your A taught you."

I went through it and it was really hard & really helpful to face the things I'd done that hurt people - even though I wasn't trying to hurt them, and even though I had "good reason" because I was so screwed up being ACoA.

Probably the hardest steps for me, because I wanted more than anything to be seen as an innocent victim of my upbringing who'd never done anything to hurt anybody, anywhere. But it actually BOOSTED my self-esteem to have the courage and strength to make amends to people I'd hurt, even if I'd always felt I was justified in hurting them.

But glad when THOSE steps were behind me, for sure LOL

guiab

You are entirely correct. we ACoA's either have a lot of trouble with Steps 5 and 8 or, to paraphrase Dr. Woititz (not sure which book), we jump into the opportunity for self-flagellation like ducks to water.
Yet, Givelove's experience mirrors mine. The wonderful coping/enabling/avoidance lessons learned in that schoolroom from hell that is the A home make for bad life skills that end up hurting others.
In many ways, I am a 'dry drunk', with lots of irritability and self-centeredness, and have pushed people, responsibilities, and happiness away from me. Steps 5 and 7 are helping me work through this.
On the top of those on my list to make amends to is me.
Having said that and done more confessing than necessary, I can say that you are bravely making forward progress by really hashing out what recovery and treatment means for you. You have stated what you won't accept. Keep going!

DesertEyes

I guess it depends on your point of view. Here's the way I worked those step in my own recovery.

I take the perspective of the adult I am _today_. Today I am wrong when I choose to believe the "brain washing" my biological parents forced upon me. I am a _good_ person, I am caring, giving, considerate and willing to be helpful to others. When I choose to believe otherwise, I am wrong.

There are times when I choose to avoid the hard work of recovery and hide in the well known habits of my "toxic" past. That is the _exact_ nature of my wrongs. That I know better today, yet sometimes I choose to do the easy thing, instead of the right thing. That has nothing to do with my parents, that is entirely my own to admit.

This one is always hard for me. I have to _stop_ treating all other humans as stand-ins for my parents. I have to learn which other humans to trust, and which to not trust. I have to stop hiding in my toxic childhood ways and take responsibility for my own recovery and my own growth into a real adult.

Especially to me, because I am the one I hurt the most when I fail to follow the lessons of recovery.

Yeah, that too. I have to develop some kind of relationship with a HP. Any HP. My whole life has been based on my relationship with my parents, as a reaction to them. My biological parents have really been my HP, even though I did not know it. IF I want to recover, I have to find _any_ HP other than my parents. Compared to them, even a doorknow would be better.

I've done harm to other people. Because I refused to work my recovery and blamed my behavior on my parents. My parents were the _cause_ of my emotions, but _I_ am the one who _fed_ and _maintained_ those emotions as an adult.

And by the way, "ammends" does _not_ mean "to apologize". It means to repair what I have damaged. The only way for me to do that is to _live_ my recovery 100%, and become the kind of person I am _able_ to be, instead of the person I am willing to settle for.

This means I have to want recovery to the very core of my being, otherwise I'll simply get lazy half way thru and spend the rest of my life the way it used to be. "Half measures" simply won't work for me. I have to do this _completely_ or it won't work at all.

Those _I_ harmed. Not the ones my parents harmed. Those people where I _could_ have done better, but chose not to out of fear.

That list starts with _me_. I am the one I have harmed the most. I am going to have to "ammend" my life, I have to _fix_ my life and my own inner most self so that I become the person I am able to be.

These steps are all about becoming what my parents never were. Responsible adults.

Mike

dolce7dolore

Thanks for all the insight from everyone. It's a comfort to know that I'm not alone in seeing how those steps could be harmful to our recovery. It was also nice to see how others have taken those steps and have made them fit into their recovery. For the first time I can see how I could face those steps without feeling some sort of injustice. So thanks.

tromboneliness

Ya -- I was puzzled by this stuff about "our wrongs" and "all persons we had harmed," too. But there's a lot to it -- as long as you can avoid the self-flagellation that us ACoAs are prone to fall into. (Sometimes I get to where Self-Flagellation is my middle name.)

I used to have a boss who was the most self-centered egomaniac I had ever known. His mother was a psychologist, and from birth, she had apparently brought him up with the idea that he was The Greatest Thing Ever™, smart, talented, and basically everyone else should bow before his superior properties. Tough guy to work for, as you might imagine. He was also a musician, and was convinced that he was The Greatest on his chosen instrument, and that others should consider themselves highly privileged to be graced by his presence. (The guy is actually an excellent clarinetist, albeit perhaps not quite as good as he thinks he is -- but then, no one is as good as this guy thinks he is.)

I had some bad experiences that eventually led to my leaving the company and going to work elsewhere. But this guy bugged me -- I felt wronged, harmed, and slighted, and for years, it bothered me.

A few years ago, I decided, it's time to be bigger than that -- let go of the resentment, stop letting the guy rent space in your head, and don't obsess about it anymore. So I went out and purchased a CD of this guy's clarinet playing -- he had one that contained some interesting 20th-century repertoire that I wanted to hear anyway, and I figured it was worth a try. Although -- as I say -- he's not quite the Undisputed Champion of the World, as he thinks he is -- I had to admit that it was an excellent recording, well worth the listening.

Sometime last year, I looked the guy up on Facebook and friended him, with a note saying, "Hey, I picked up your CD, Such and Such. A quality performance of some interesting repertoire. Nice work!" A day or two later, he accepted my friend request.

You know what? I don't resent this guy anymore. I look back at some of the stupid stuff that happened when I worked for him and think, ha, wasn't that idiotic -- but I could have handled it much better if I'd had a program. Live and learn, etc.

How is this "making a list of persons we had harmed, and making amends to them?" Well, it really isn't -- but what it's doing is making amends to myself, for things that I had allowed to cause resentments, in a situation in which I saw myself as a victim. Letting go of "victimhood" took away this guy's power to rent space in my head (which I'm sure he'd have been surprised to learn he had in the first place, so many years later!).

That's one way Step 8 works for me. You have to get past the idea that, "Whaddaya mean, people I had harmed? I'm the victim of harm here, not the perpetrator!" It's not that we're harming others, but we're allowing others to cause us to harm ourselves... or something like that. YMMV, etc. All's I'm sayin' is that Step 8 can be useful, even for an ACoA....

T