sojourner

here's something that eggs at me...

Time and again 22 YO AS has given such ignorant responses.. and in such a monotone way - almost like he's been woken up from a deep sleep..

such as, when anyone says, - "hey, you haven't have a job in three months" the addict will say, "Soooo"

or, he will comment that, "so I shoplift food. That store makes so much money, they won't go broke from me taking a loaf of bread."

or, "so i don't have car insurance or a license. what's the big deal."

Here's my concern: Does addiction really fog him up so much that he doesn't know it's wrong to shoplift, that it's okay to go for long stretches not working, that it's no big deal to drive without license or insurance?

Because if his brain is really that damaged so that he really does believe all that stuff, how in the world will that brain ever be able to have thoughts of recovery?

Or, is he just making those responses as a way of getting people off his back, that he really does believe that the way he is living is wrong and is not what he learned growing up, and that he really is not that stupid... honestly, i feel like i'm dealing with somebody with a very low IQ.

Freedom1990

Addiction is complex. Recovery is complex. My EXAH was much the same way-he never did seek recovery, and always had enablers in place. He remarried after we divorced-found another enabler essentially.

Be glad that you don't completely understand addiction because in order to understand, you would have to be an addict.

I went from a helpless, hopeless, dying addict to someone who clung to recovery with the desperation of a drowning man. I hit a bottom.

Have you done something nice for yourself today? I hear the pain in your post. Put your son back in God's hands, and get back to taking care of yourself, hon. :ghug :ghug

sojourner

Thanks for your answers. What struck me was the phrase "he's a young punk." That's realistic, but i get lost in the "oh, his poor, poor foggy brain." Probably if i could be a fly on the wall when he is with his peers, i would see and hear a very rebellious young man who is cruisin' for a bruisin'. What he shows me is a little boy who has lost his way. In reality, he does not comprehend directions well and has to be told several times to do something (this comes from enabling family members who tried to "save" him).

I'm off to do something nice for me now. Enough of my mind has been given to the addict today...

Seren

Yep, he sounds just like my fiance's AS. Sometimes we think he does have some sort of disability, sometimes we know he's trying to play us....

Yeeshh.

HG

Spiritual Seeker

He will be able to grasp recovery...when he is ready and sick + tired of the life he's livin'
Right now his behaviors perpetuate addiction.

We can't delay our own happiness waiting for them to get into recovery.
We must grab it ea. and every day. We have to let go of obsessing over their behavior to lead more manageable lives of our own.

A front row seat to their lifestyle is not a good view.
My gifted IQ child became an adult idiot. His addiction made him unable to have rational
smart thoughts and goals. He had to be sober for many mos. before he was able to have intellectual curiosity and gumption to do something productive with his time.

Remember,we can not have any time-line for them to come around to our way of thinking.

Angelic17

Sojourner, I went through the same stuff with my son. I would be talking to him about living, and getting well, and he would come out with something like, The WuTangClan has a new CD. So, I called his addiction doctor, and I asked him if my son was, mentally ill, stupid, brain damaged, or just an idiot. I told him not to be kind with me, and to tell me the truth. He told me that he has spoken to my son long enough to know that he is very bright, and very intelligent. It's just that the addicted brain is numb to any reasoning. I have learned that you can't reason with an addict. It will take time for your 22 year old to come around. He has to want it. Sounds like he doesn't really want it yet. He knows stealing is wrong, and driving without a license is wrong. He might need to pay the price for his actions. Sounds like his life isn't that difficult for him yet. He will get there, they always do. Prayers are going up for your boy, hold on. There's no easy fix for addiction, it takes time. :praying

jerect

I once read someplace that addicts have the maturity level of the age that they first started using..

I don't know how long your son has been using but if he started in his early to mid teens then that is how he is probably acting. Best thing to do is not to expect him to act like anything else.

My AH is 34 but sometimes I feel like I'm living with a 20 year old.. it's so very frustrating. I thought once he got clean that he would start acting like a responsible adult but nope that has not happend yet..

Impurrfect

(((Sojourner)))

If it makes you feel any better....he sounds just like I did when I was using. When I think of the stuff I did, now, I'm SURE I must have been an idiot at the time. Nope..I was just an addict who didn't care about much, other than using and some really stupid stuff seemed perfectly logical.

I'm glad you're going to put your focus back on you. If he's like me, the consequences will prove that some of this stuff IS a big deal. I got tired of dealing with those darned consequences and found recovery.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Joeyboy

Sojourner, maybe if your son gets arrested for stealing, or picked up for driving without a license, and he sits in jail for a while, that might help him. His head will clear out after he detoxes on the floor in a cell, and then he will realize that this is no way to live his life. It seems that he doesn't want to give up his addiction yet, because things aren't that bad yet. He can still manage to get his drugs. He must have food, and a roof over his head. Otherwise he would put himself into a program. I know how tough this is for a mom. No mother wants her son to go through all of this. But sometimes that's what it takes. My heart goes out to you. Been there, done that. It broke my heart.

Done_With_It

Because we like to feel "comfortable" when we start to feel "Uncomfortable" then we start to think about recovering, it's not fun or okay anymore.

imallright

Guess it is much simpler to stay high and think everyone else has a problem. Also, I too have read that the addict sort of fixed emotionally at the age when they started to use... not saying they stay there when in recovery... just saying that in my experience dealing with AEX is like dealing with a giant 16 year old... at best.

NoelleR

Recently, here on SR, someone wrote a post regarding alcohol/drugs and/or alcoholism/addiction and/or alcoholic behavior/addict behavior that was almost identical to what I had been thinking. What this person was saying, and what I have experienced and seen with my own recovering/recovered eyes, is that oftentimes we give alcohol/alcoholism/drugs/addiction waaaaaay too much credit......!

.....i.e.: the behavior I've seen in the OP, from others in this thread, and lastly what I've lived through (from both sides...: as alcoholic/addict and as F2F‘s), I see all those behaviors in both alcoholics/addicts and non-alcoholics/non-alcoholics alike. Just because a person is an alcoholic/addict and has behaviors that I consider unacceptable, I’ve learned that most of these actions have absolutely no connection; they’re just unacceptable behaviors, and the person in question chose to act on them.

So, sojourner, in response to your queries.....: ”...22 YO AS has given such ignorant responses...” to everything; “...Soooo...” in response to folks questioning his lack of employment; “...so I shoplift food... they won't go broke from me taking a loaf of bread...” regarding shoplifting; and finally his response to being irresponsible (and some could say doing illegal actions)...”...so i don't have car insurance or a license. what's the big deal."...”..... All of these behaviors could be connected to his using, but they could also be because he is irresponsible, a small-time/petty criminal, and an in-your-face law-breaker; he is only 22. I’ve seen these behaviors, and worse, in many folks, not just folks in need of recovery of some kind (well, mebbe they need some kind of recovery, but perhaps not of the alcohol/addict kind.....

There are wonderful, kind, generous, honest, loving, close to perfect (?) people in this world, and unfortunately there are complete opposites too. I know from my own experience in the world of alcoholism/addiction that I acted very similarly to your AS, and I knew it was (more than likely) wrong, but I just didn’t care. I said, and did, all kinds of stuff when I was in my addictions, and I certainly wasn’t behaving in the way I was reared, and, yes, in some way I was trying to get some folks off my back.....BUT, even with the 25 years of drinking/using/just general debauchery, I had not damaged too much of my brain (and all its cells, etc.) to the extent of being incapable of recovery (in a couple of months---June 23rd---I will be celebrating 23 years of continuous sobriety, clean time, recovery....

In closing, sojourner, I just want to say that, even though you hope your AS doesn’t thinks he’s stupid, and even though, at times, you feel you’re dealing with a person with a low IQ-----have faith....have hope.... I’ve found that I find more folks with high IQ’s inside recovery rooms than out (and, yes, lots of ‘rocket-scientists’ here). BUT, for now, for you sojourner, just keep the focus on yourself; heal yourself. As spiritual said....he will come to recovery when he wants/needs to; when he’s ready and sick and tired of his life as it is.

Just keep on keeping’ on, sojourner. I’ve seen it many times.....things seem to work out the way they’re supposed to; with or without my help.......lol


NoelleR