anubus

XABF phoned me today, concerning his legal issues (long story, he has a DUI hearing coming up in 2-1/2 weeks). Still wanting to BELIEVE & hope that he will face this freaking legal thing which he's been running from since 2004, I went along with the phone call. He started out asking me (good) questions, and I guess I thought for a minute he was really for real.....NOT
He just started talking about a certain lawyer, or public defenders, and pros/cons of showing up for the hearing versus not.....so I discussed it with him, thinking he just needed to talk/ sort out what to do as I know this thing is really scarey to him.....he suffers anxiety attacks, chest pains, etc....and I know this thing is really scarey for him.

Then for whatever reason, tells me his cell phone is gonna be shut off, and he doens't have $$ to pay on it. I ignored him (used to pay it when he lived here). I just rederected the conversation back to the legal thing.

THEN, all out of the blue, he starts the blame game!! This is all my fault (because I turned him in.......WHY WHY WHY did I turn him in, he keeps asking), his life was perfect before I met him (Hmmm....he was getting evicted from the house he rented, I took him in. He was driving a van in some dead woman's name, with illegal inspection/registration/no insurance....I provided him with a legal car to drive). I supported him for 2+ years, even buying his beer & cigs....ugh. And I ruined his LIFE????? Several times I pointly told him I was not gonna discuss any of that....if he wanted to talk about this legal thing, I would discuss ONLY that. I guess he didn't like me saying that, cause after a few tries at the blame game, then he says "YEAH, you don't want to discuss anything having to do with YOU, and you just want to justify yourself, etc" I think I did pretty good at stopping him when he said those things but GEEZ......WHAT IS WITH THE BLAME THING????????? How can they turn things completely around like that??? :wtf2 DO THEY REALLY BELIEVE THAT CRAP, or is it just manipulation or quacking????

Since he is considering running again from this legal thing, and I've been researching & talking alot with people who went through similar situations the past year on this kind of stuff, I mentioned a couple of suggestions (plea bargains, etc). He listens, then spazzes on me saying "And how do you KNOW this stuff will work?? Oh, I forgot, you're the internet expert"....in a sarcastic tone of voice...blah blah. I just answered that I could care less if he shows for the hearing or not, it's his life, his choices, I wasn't the one drinking/driving back in 2004.....I was only telling him what I've read & heard, and how I would handle it if I was in his shoes. He spazzes saying "I don;t want your help" (well why the F*ck did you CALL ME????????......urgh!!!!)

So then it ends with the tools.......ugh. He says "you (meaning I) ruined my life, my life was perfect before I met you.....all I want is my tools". I just answered...."IF THAT'S HOW YOU FEEL, WELL WHY DON'T YOU COME GET THOSE TOOLS?????? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT, THEN YOU NEVER COME GET THEM". So he says he'll come get them in a couple of days......ugh....I've heard that story before......lol.

I hung up totally wiped out mentally......like thinking HOW did that just happen??? HOW can they switch things around to put the entire blame on US??? They are like MASTERS at doing that!!

Fortunately, this all happened at my job, watching a special needs boy, who had already been put to bed for the night. The father is a minister, so he came home while this crazy phone conversation was going on. When I hung up, I was fuming & telling my boss about it. He knows XABF and the continuing saga. We talked about the legal thing, and what I suggested to XABF, and the minister said yes I was correct. My boss is SO sweet, he then phoned my XABF (naturally got his machine), and calmly left a message explaining how plea bargains work, how he's seen alot of them, being a minister & dealing with people with similar issues. So, HOPEFULLY this ministers words helped XABF figure this legal mess out........but GEEZ.......he managed to frazzle my nerves up so much, I came home & drank 3 glasses of wine!!! Lol. Wheh........how & why do they DO THAT to us????????

Impurrfect

(((Anubus))) - he does it because he can. He knows it pushes your buttons, gets you all riled up, so he will keep doing it. Yes, it's quacking and manipulation. Heck, he's even got YOU drinking wine to calm down you're frazzled nerves.

Had you hung up the phone when he first started all this nonsense, and continued to do this every time he tried it, he would stop trying. However, he got what he wanted...a reaction, so he will continue to do it.

He's using the tools as a way to keep a hold on you. If he needed them so bad, he would have gotten them a long time ago. He's keeping them at your place, so he has a reason to call you and see if he can still push your buttons. As long as he can, he knows he has a chance to weedle his way back in.

You're still playing the game, sweetie. This will continue as long as you let it. You are the only one who can stop it. You're so worried about him taking care of his obligations...all he's worried about is blaming you for his problems. I hate to say it, but he is a long, long way from hitting bottom with this attitude.

You have a choice....let go or be dragged.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

laurie6781

As I have said to you before and will now say more forcefully:

GET RID OF THE DAMN TOOLS. Take them somewhere where he can pick them up, if not the police station, leave them at the fire station.

You haven't wanted to do this just as much as he hasn't wanted to pick them up. This way you still have contact and can get a bit of the drama.

He will no longer be able to blame you when you say ENOUGH and take no more phone calls from him.

You let him drive a vehicle of yours and he has no license and he was still drinking.......now if he had hit someone you would be in financial ruin for the rest of your life.

He calls and starts to turn the tables on you and you listen, did you even think of disconnecting the call?

Maybe it's time for you to do some journalling to figure out why you have this 'need' to continue to hear from this loser. And yes he is a loser. He has let this DUI thing go on for over 4 years and I doubt if he will go to court on it now, will just lay low. He used you for how many months? He will continue to USE people until he either dies or there is no one left.

Just as he has choices, so do you.

Now what is your choice going to be. Is this really what you want your life to be about? I don't think so.

J M H O Take what you want and leave the rest.

Love and hugs,

anubus

Thank you both...I needed those wise words of wisdom!!

I've watched him endlessly dodge this warrant for the past 3 years, and since I turned him in, I watched him cry REAL TEARS of fear.......and it's hard not to let it get to me. URGH.

I must be getting better (alittle), because today SEVERAL times I THOUGHT about just hanging up the phone......was ALMOST ready to, stopped myself from doing so......but didn't (still I little thing in me, wanting/hoping/praying that he would SEE).....urgh. I was on the phone while he was ranting, and thinking I should just hang up.....but didn't. Not just yet THERE yet......but it's getting there!!

He made me so mad tonight, I was ready to just dump the tools ANYWHERE, but you know, that is what he WANTS.....an excuse to get mad, justify HIS actions, put more weird blame on me. To his kids, to his mom, etc. He WANTS a reaction from me. Remember the one time, I put his tools/belongings outside in my driveway? They sat there for 3 days, it stormed during that time, and finally his 18 year old daughter came to get them.....dragged them 2 blocks (walking) to her home.......blaming me the entire time......she is brainwashed by him too.

Yes, and he got ME drinking tonight......urgh....(I'm on my 4th glass, but going to bed after this)...so he can tell everyone how **I** get when I drink wine.....it worked tonight. He got to me! Fortunately tonight he doesn't KNOW he got to me, drinking wine when I got home. And fortunately my boss/minister came home & intervened with his phone message, calming the storm, bringing it back to helping with his legal thing.

URGH........this desease is just CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY..........how they can so easily shift the tables around!!!!!!

tallulah

Ok. I understand this.

Firstly those blasted tools. Do you know where he is, or a friend or family member is, or anywhere where you can drop them off.. if you do then do it. Get the tools out of your life. They are a reason for him to keep dropping in and out to unbalance you. If you can't deliver them then give him a time and a place to collect them, stick with that arrangement with the strict caveat that if he doesn't collect them they will be left there at his risk. If you can do this via a written means (text, email, letter) then all the better. His tools are not your responsibility anymore. You know he is keeping them with you as an excuse to be able to make contact and you (by not getting rid of them) are giving him opportunity to do so.

Similarly the DUI. Unless you are his lawyer there is really no reason for him to be calling you discussing his case. Like the tools it is just another thing for him to call about and start unbalancing you. He isn't your friend by all accounts so a chat about his current situation is never going to be a friendly discussion about the options. If he calls you about that then refer him to his legal representative.

One thing I have learned is that if they are going to blame you they are going to blame you. If they are going to run you down to anyone who listens they will do that regardless of your actions etc. There is nothing you can do to counter that. In fact by trying to prove them wrong you just tie yourself up and allow yourself to get caught up in their craziness. YOU know the truth and as far as anyone else is concerned those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind. But you can stop being a participant in the game by drawing a line in the sand and just not getting involved.

He is doing what you allow him to do. Hand the tools over, stop taking his calls and/or hang up, when he comes to invite you to do the 'dance' just calmly say 'no thank you' and stay in your seat.

Hugs... :ghug

Seren

Sorry to hear about the roller coaster.

Ummmm....put the tools on the porch and block his calls from your phone? Why keep torturing yourself by taking this man's calls because he is an alcoholic and will blame you for everything. That's the job of the alcoholic......

Hugs and prayers, HG

Ago

So what are you getting from all of this?

must be something, been the exact same story for a few months now.

You say he aint changing, from here it appears the same can be said of you

Forget him, when are YOU going to start making some changes and get some real help?

As long as you keep sticking your finger in his mouth, he's gonna keep biting it, you have the information, hell you have HAD the information for a long time, what are you going to do with it?

Get drunk and blame HIM??????

and your post is about his manipulation and blame????

This reminds me a kid that rides a roller coaster, and the moment the ride is done, runs around and gets back in line.

There are no victims in relationships, only volunteers, and victims don't get better.

I mean if your only purpose in posting here is to find other people mad at alcoholics, and yall can have "he's terrible, he's awful, waaa waaa pity parties" keep doing what you are doing, plenty of that here.

So really, What do you get from all of this?

must be something, or you would make changes.

mermaidgirl

Anubus-I totally get the blame game on a regular basis, but like some here have said, you have a choice in whether or not you want to play the game.

MyAH blames me for taking him off our account and is appaled that I would do this...I simply said, someone has to be responsible for paying bills, protecting credit (which he has now singlehandedly ruined x 2)...yes, I said I had to have separate accounts with you because you have made a choice to handle your finances completely differently than I do. Does it get to me? It gets to me more when I engage and it takes great strength to do what everyone is saying here, but the more you take care of yourself, and not allow to be exposed to the toxic fumes if you will, the better you will be. Don't be fooled...you aren't helping him...only HE can help himself get out of his mess that he has created.

For the record, I would have had at least one glass...!

LaTeeDa

Just because someone sets down their baggage at my feet doesn't mean I have to pick it up.

L

GiveLove

Anubus, when you are truly tired of playing this game, you will stop.

You're still involving yourself in his drama (researching options, continuing to store his tools, etc. etc.) And you're expecting him to be rational and grateful for the chance to talk with you.

As long as you keep expecting him to act like a decent person, it will continue to be like going to the hardware store to buy bread. It appears you are still feeding off his drama, getting something out of it. Not sure what....maybe old habits die hard.

And if/when you're tired of continually walking in there, over and over and over again, and expecting to find whole wheat between the nails and the lag bolts, then you'll stop doing this to yourself. Not here to tell you what to do -- but it seems like you could find other things that would make you far happier.

Good luck!

CAPTAINZING2000

This guy is good. I could have taken lessons from him. I did learn the hard way a long time ago, sooner or later, that warrent for his arrest would have ended him up in jail.

I'd set this guy along the curb for the weekly trash pick up cause, he's full of trash.
The process of recovery has us to look inside ourselves and see what part we play in everything.

He was rather lucky to have a good person like you in his life. Question is, do you really want an adult child to support ?

We've talked about this in the past. You can't help someone that, won't help themselves.

Everyone that, read your post can see you know what he's doing. You know what the answer is, you should sever ties with him.

Seems like, everything runs their course. We overlook the other person's bad habits at first. Or, someone, hides how they really are at first.

I'm always reminded of the girl walking along the road on a cold fall day. She sees a snake lying on the ground. The snake begs her to pick him up cause, he's cold. The girl said no but, the snake was charming and soon had the girl put him inside of her coat. After a while, the snake got warm and bit her. The girl asked why, the snake replied, you knew, I was a snake when, you picked me up.

How sad is it, you're being nice got you bit?

Ago

That's just crazy talk Anvil

This thread reminds me, of when I engaging in VERY similar behavior, I told my sponsor about it....nothing.....I waited, expecting him to chew me out.....nothing.......Finally I was all, "Hey, I am blowing it here, don't you have words of wisdom? great advice? @sschew? something? anything?"

He looks up, absent mindedly, says, "huh? no...you just aren't done yet. You'll stop when you are done, when you aren't getting anything from engaging in this behavior."

Somehow, that was the most effective thing he could have said, I "got" it, the dime dropped, and it became my responsibility.

Another time, I was whinging to some local "Yoda" about something, it was awful, it was terrible, it was painful.

He listened for awhile, then said "That's great Andrew, just keep doing what you are doing." patted me on the back and walked away.

THAT sunk in.

If I kept doing what I was doing I would get in so much pain, and go soooo crazy that eventually I would stop.

In both cases I stepped out of the elevator right then, before it could go any lower.

It was up to me.

You'll be done when you are done, it aint him though, it's you making the choice to continue engaging.

tallulah

Said with love and in the words of Radiohead...

'you do it to yourself, you do.. and that's what really hurts'

Barbara52

Until you are ready to stop your part in this merry-go-round, it'll keep on going round and round and round....

Kindeyes

Just as the alcoholic in our lives have "tools" to keep us in the game, we have to develop our own set of "tools".

Here are some tools I have used when dealing with my A son (and have to remind myself to use periodically):

1. Agree with him. It's all a bunch of bs anyway so why not? (They hate it when you agree with them......it defuses them.)

2. Agree with them......and then say "so....what are you going to do about it?" (This puts the ball right back in their court.)

3. Say "Whatever.....it's your choice." (And stop giving him advice that gives him the opportunity to blame you for everything.)

For those of us who choose (and it is a choice we all have the right to make) to stay in contact with the alcoholic in our lives, we need to practice detachment. The A cannot argue with themselves. They need an active participant. And THAT is what makes us crazy......it's not what THEY say........it's our own defensive words that they effectively counter with more baloney.

It works for me.

gentle hugs

Bernadette

I agree with Kindeyes-- when I started just saying "Hunhhh." and "Oh." to my alkie bros in conversations it made 99% of their blame games with me evaporate.
*Poof*
I wasn't playing anymore.

So yes anubus they are masters at turning the blame around - but if we don't even engage then we don't set ourselves up for manipulation/argument/feeling defensive.

Are you ready/willing/desiring to stop the merry-go-round? You've got the on/off switch. It is in YOUR hands!
peace,
b

PurpleWilder

Drop off those damn tools at a pawn shop and if he wants them, he can get them out of hock himself. Don't give him any excuses to keep calling you.

Freedom1990

Who's blaming who now? Re-read the above (and pay attention to what is in bold).

9 times out of 10, when the oldest AD calls, I don't pick up the phone.

She has nothing of hers left here. She had a time limit on when to pick up the rest of her stuff when I kicked her out a few years back. What was left went in the dumpster and it was bye-bye stuff when the trash man drove off.

You're not a victim anymore. You volunteer for the insanity...every time you answer that phone...every day that his tools sit at your house.

:ghug :ghug

catlady61

I agree with Kindeyes too, but the agreeing with them and the whatevers and the do what you have to do's seem to have made it all the easier in for my alcoholic (he says "social drinker") to just use that as another reason/excuse to "meet someone".
So, I guess we have to be careful how detached we become "if" we want to keep them in our lives. Do you want him in your life?

Sweets79

Addictions can effect someones personality, but true personality is ALWAYS there. There are plenty of men who aren't alcoholics/addicts who are like this and do worse. To blame everything on alcoholism just isn't logical.