CoDieNOmore

I'm getting better at spotting what is not healthy in a romantic relationship.. But I don't I have a clue on what healthy looks like??
Can one maintain friendships with the ex??
Is it wrong to have friends with the other sex? If so.... what does that friendship look like?
Do you tell your partner everything......even when you know it will upset him/her? If you do tell them everything... How?
I feel like I should know the answer to these simple questions but I really don't. In the past, I have let myself get cut off from everyone except my partner. Now I do know that that is NOT healthy.
My bf and I have been back together for a little over a month. I'm really working on getting better.....

GiveLove

Hi Kendra,

I sort of base everything on what kind of person I want to be. When I look in the mirror, I want to know that I did my best to honor myself, be as honest as possible, and never stoop to hurting others without cause. It IS a funny little rope bridge to walk sometimes though.

For example: I am not friends with my X because he's a jerk. My husband is friends with his, and we occasionally socialize together in a group. I think both are healthy and honoring ourselves - me because I dont' want to be around jerks, him because this person has moved on but they still enjoy one another's company.

I have friends of both genders, and even in-between genders . What that looks like is we're friends. I don't do anything with them I wouldn't do with a same-sex friend (no sex, no kissing, no inappropriate touching, etc.) My husband is never excluded when I am with friends who are male. If he wants to be there, he can, and that's reciprocal. Often he doesn't care, but I give him the choice. It's important to me that our relationship be transparent.

I tell him everything he wants to know. Because we're transparent with each other, there's little that would cause hurt feelings. If he's done something stupid, I ask him how he feels about it, and tell him how it made ME feel. If his fly is open, I tell him. If someone sh*t-talks him behind his back, I first punch that person out, and then suggest we avoid being around that person from now on.

I'm careful with my language. I think about what I say to be sure I'm very clear and not hurtful. I've gone through a lot of recovery, and so I don't do a lot of finger-pointing, poor-me, do-as-I-say, or any of that. We just....treat each other as we'd like to be treated, with understanding, patience, and honesty.

That's just what healthy means to me. What kinds of things did YOU have in mind? What are you afraid to do and say?

CoDieNOmore

That was soooo helpful.......
{What kinds of things did YOU have in mind? What are you afraid to do and say? }
Very good questions. I need to think about them for a minute. I tried to use the quote feature but could not fig. it out. I'm using a MAC powerbook...

tromboneliness

From the perspective of having been married for 11 years, and 13 years in the program (my wife has a better program than I do), I'd echo a lot of the things GiveLove said. I have a lot of women friends -- my wife knows that and does not have a problem with it. My wife and I don't "tell our partner everything" -- there are depths of her soul, so to speak, that I don't think I need to know, nor do I tell her every dark secret thought I have. I don't think you need to do that. Basically, we have a relationship that works -- I don't pry into what she's thinking, and she doesn't pry into what I'm thinking. Being honest with each other does not mean blurting out every personal thought that comes into our head. But we share a lot, too.

Part of it, I think, is that each of us looks in the mirror and sees a work in progress -- somewhat damaged goods, but we're working on fixing ourselves, and it's "progress, not perfection," so why dwell on the negative? If I think something will upset my wife, I tend not to tell her -- I keep such things to myself and work my program as best I can.

I don't know if that helps at all -- I'm no expert on healthy relationships, having only had one (altho' it's still going, 15 years in, so we're doing at least a few things right). I would add that it is not a good idea to cut yourself off from everyone except your partner -- that is a sign of dangerous control/possession issues, and that type of situation usually ends badly. Having said that, my wife and I aren't social butterflies, by any means -- we tend to stick to ourselves a lot of the time. But not all the time; that's the difference. When I want to go out and do my stuff, she says go do it -- and when she wants to do her stuff, I say go do it. If your partner won't let you out of his sight, that is not healthy.

T

GingerM

GiveLove did a very good job answering this, but I thought I'd throw my .002 cents in anyway.

Healthy looks like the point where you can look at yourself in the mirror and say "I didn't do anything today which I'm ashamed of or which I regret. I am proud of who I am and I want to continue to be proud of who I am and how I treat people. I know I can't control the people around me or their emotional state, but I can control my own emotional state and I choose to continue to accept myself for who I am and the world for what it is - warts and all"

I am happily married. In attendance at our wedding was the man I lost my viginity to, a man I was engaged to (who was part of the bridal party) and several ex-boyfriends. If you enjoy the other person, but aren't really "long term partner" matched, then I see no problem with maintaining a friendship with them. As GiveLove pointed out, though, this means that you treat the ex the same way you would treat any other friend - no 'benefits'.

It looks like any other friendship. Every friendship is different. There are some things I will discuss with some friends but not others, for various reasons. But it all boils down to two people who have something in common, who care for each other, and who enjoy each other's company. Some friendships are closer than others.

I don't tell my husband everything. We all have a right to privacy. That being said, if I feel I have something to say that he 'needs' to hear (something that is affecting our relationship) I do tell him, even when I know it will upset him - actually, especially if I know it will upset him because that means it is a genuine Issue in our relationship and if it isn't addressed it will only get worse from neglect. Early on in our marriage, that very neglect nearly killed our marriage. I usually start by "bracing" him - I'll say something along the lines of "I have something to tell you that will probably upset you". Nothing's worse than having someone just spring things on you - so I give him a chance to be ready for impending doom But I do tell him. Then we begin the process of trying to work it out. It's rarely fun, often involves sticky patches that we have difficulty working through - thankfully we're both stubborn and refuse to give up, so we do eventually work through them.

We try to have a transparent relationship (not individually transparent - but we don't hide things from each other). He knows about my "pretend boyfriends" (people I have crushes on, most often fictional characters) and we joke about it. I know about his 'interests', but in both cases, neither of us feel threatened by it because it's all out in the open.

That does not mean I tell him every deep dark secret I have. There are some things I will never tell anyone. But if I think it will affect the relationship, it gets discussed, even if (especially if) I think it's going to be sticky and messy and uncomfortable.

Good job! There are many out there who still don't realize that it's not healthy to hold your partner up as the one person who defines your existence. That's putting all your emotional eggs in one basket.

Keep working on it - it will happen as long as you keep working on it. I will never say that I am "recovered". Just when I think I have a good handle on things, some new something pops up to make me re-evaluate how I'm living my life. You will always be working on it - but practice makes perfect and the more you work on it, the less work you'll have to do.

Gin

CoDieNOmore

So many great comments. You all have been very helpful.
My bf and I really had a great weekend together. We spent some good time in conversations that needed to happen. The more I focus on myself the better I feel. I have so much to work on but I'm not feeling as lost as I was last week.
I'm in a place in my life that I feel I'm truly ready to let someone see me. I'm learning to talk about things that are hard for me. Usally I just keep things to myself and just walk away one day... O and I always had a plan B (another man in waiting) just in case my current relationship did not workout... By doing this I would never allow myself to be truly invested in my relationships.
When my bf and I got back together I decided to truly give us a honest chance. No plan B... I'm not doing anything that I would be ashamed of. It still takes time for me to talk about things. It's like I feel like I have to process things within and with others before I bring it to him. He is very quick to ask me something before I was ready to talk about it. However instead of changing the subject or lying... I answer him honestly.

GingerM

"I'd like to talk about this with you, but I'm not quite ready yet. I promise I'll talk to you about it in X days"

This is a totally valid response. The only danger here is in not giving a 'hard deadline' for the latest he can expect you to talk to him. If you just say "I'll talk about it later", that leaves it open to interpretation and also allows for the possibility that it will slip through the cracks.

As for how long you wait to tell him, that's up to you to decide. You may even follow it up X days later by saying "I haven't forgotten about it, I do still want to discuss it with you, but I need a few more days, maybe we can talk about it on Saturday" or something to that effect.

I'm glad you're answering him honestly. It's a difficult skill to learn, especially if your own history indicates that opening yourself up emotionally to someone is "giving ammunition to the enemy".

CoDieNOmore

We talked about deal breakers that we both have... What a concept. This feels totally new for me. I always talked to everyone else about my or our problems.. Then wonder why I have yet another failed relationship.
I think it helps that he is also on his own journey of recovery...
I think the big issue for the both of us is trust..... We both did things in our past that hurt one another. Of course I never talked about it to him. A couple of months go by ... Then one day I broke up through a text message. Then ran out of the house.. Don't answer the phone or email... I was a total chicken and could not tell him why I did what I did... The good news was I did not have a Plan B. That is a huge step for me. The bad news is if I would have communicated my feelings we might not of broken up. I guess that is water under the bridge now.
What I'm trying to learn now is rebuilding trust. One thing I get is... I first have to be trust worthy. I love the comment about being able to look in the mirror and know that I have done nothing to be ashamed of.

CoDieNOmore

[QUOTE=GingerM;2160507]"I'd like to talk about this with you, but I'm not quite ready yet. I promise I'll talk to you about it in X days"



WOW... This is what healthy communication looks like. The more I learn about healthy communication the more I realize I have much to learn....

tromboneliness

Hmmm -- does it work that way for you? In my situation, there are some "I don't want to discuss it" things (money being a big one), but saying, "We can talk about it in X days, but not today" would never work -- X days would go by, and we would still not want to discuss it, etc. As I say, though, we certainly don't have perfection in this household -- progress is the best we can do. If I'm trying to have a discussion about money, or getting the apartment in shape, or whatever, and am just not getting anywhere, I sit down and say to myself, "Self, what we're dealing with here are the things I cannot change, and the things I can. What is there here that I can change, all by myself?" If that means saving some money on something I have authority over, I do that. If it means cleaning up the kitchen or the bathroom or throwing out some junk, I do that. If I can't get some buy-in from my wife, at some point I say "Stop stewing over this and do whatever you can yourself!"

Obviously, that doesn't work for everything -- if your relationship deal-breaker is kids (which it would have been, if she'd wanted them), you have to get that one out in the open, even if it takes X + Y + Z days! But for the ongoing stuff, I just do my best to get it out there, and then if it's not happening, focus on whatever I can do on my own. Does that make sense?

Imperfectly yours,

T

GiveLove

There are lots of good books on communication techniques for couples, like You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation (tannen) and Getting the Love You Want (hendrix) and a ton of others. I got a lot of great ideas to try from reading and exploring what other people do (not having had a lot of healthy relationships in my life to learn from...)

The more open you keep your communication -- especially about your fears -- the better you get at figuring out the best way to talk to each other.

I don't exactly use Ginger's wording, but something similar like "I need to figure out the best way to express what I'm really feeling - I have some confusion in my head and want to straighten it out before I start running my mouth. Can I have a little time to think on that?"

For which you can sometimes substitute, "I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that yet, but I'm working on it?" I'm also a big fan of the Dinner Summit, where we plan a nice meal to include time for just sitting and figuring something out together.

Lots and lots of ways to work things out if you're both looking, and if you're willing to face your fears and be honest.

What awesome progress you're making, Kendra!

CoDieNOmore

All this is very new for me... I'm trying very hard to be a better person......
My bf today asked me a ??. Instead of telling him the truth I just lied about it. If I was not ready to answer it I should have said that.....
This has really bothered me and I called him to say that I lied. Of corse it was a lie to cover another lie I told along time ago. Instead of just saying I don't want to talk about it.... I lie....
Now that I truly want to get better all I can do is clean my side of the street. I told him I was a lier and that I'm working on it... We are working on trust issues... and hear I am..... O sorry, I lied to you today and here is another lie I told a while back.....
I know that must be a lot for him to think about.... I can't get ahold of him and I'm scared that I have just told one lie to many............
I told him in the message that I understood that he needed time and I will wait to hear from him.
I'm full of fear and sorrow for makeing so many mistakes.....
I want to so much for us to work out and the only way I know how to do that is work on myself........ somethings I have done all my life and it's hard to do the next healthy thing.

GiveLove

It is hard to break old habits. All you can do is your best

I'm glad you realize that you can only work on your own stuff.....and if you keep practicing your own stuff and being the person you want to be, you will get better at this, little by little.

You can't build a healthy relationship based on untruths. All you can do is dismantle them, one by one, and begin again.

CoDieNOmore

You can't build a healthy relationship based on untruths. All you can do is dismantle them, one by one, and begin again.[/QUOTE]

I know in my heart that... that is true..... I have lied to him for fear that he would leave me. I have lied to him about time frames of my past.... The crazy thing is I have also told him things I have never told anyone about. I also have showed parts of me that no one has seen.

I think dismantling my lies has maybe dismantled my relationship. He is not working today and would have usually called me by now.
1. I am full of fear that I have lost him
2. I am full of shame for my lying behavior.
3. I am full of regret for lying in the first place.
4. I am also a little angry. He has lied to me 2 in our past. I still think he has not been totally honest about his part in our past. And to be honest, I don't know if I want to know the WHOLE truth.
5. I think he is just looking at my crap and not realizing the depths of his own.

dothi

The awkward thing about addressing your own demons is that your partner isn't necessarily going to be at the same place of introspection as you are. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

A little late with the $0.02, but I wanted to add that if you're in the middle of an argument and it's getting heated to the point where you both are starting to say things to hurt each other, is also perfectly fine to say, "I need to talk about this after I've calmed down." Leave the room if you have to. Let the angry chemicals metabolize. Come back with a fresh mind.

Quote:

Can one maintain friendships with the ex??

In my experience, only if enough time and distance has passed for both to move forward in their lives. Otherwise lingering feelings tend to make the friendship messy and often much more difficult for one than the other. It is perfectly fine to tell an ex, "I need to time and space to get over our relationship, so please don't call me anymore." This does not mean you're bitter or holding a grudge. It means you are recognizing and managing your emotions. I cannot emphasize enough: you don't need to be friends with your ex to prove you are a good person; it is okay to tell people that you're still getting over it. Most people spend a lot of time still getting over it. That's life.

Quote:

Is it wrong to have friends with the other sex? If so.... what does that friendship look like?

That friendship looks like this: not confiding more in them than you would your partner, not complaining about your partner to them, not giving mixed signals, having respect for each other's relationships and partners, backing off if things get awkward, and always showing your partner respect first and foremost.

Plus it really depends on you. For some people, the jealousy can be too much to handle (and that's perfectly fair, as long as you know this about yourself). For others, they have a strong sense of security and trust in their partner that should they find themselves attracted to someone else, they're not just going to "helplessly" act on it.

When I was first dating my current partner (2.5 years now), I made it very clear that jealousy would be a dealbreaker for me. I have a job where I'm working with other men all the time, and he has a job where he works with a lot of women. I won't get very far if I act stand-offish to avoid friendships with male coworkers from developing. I am very vocal with my partner about who I'm working with, and who I've been chatting with lately. I don't tell him every thing or every little detail, but enough so he knows. There's nothing to hide, even if I find I am attracted to someone else (which happens every now and then). I'm self-aware enough to see it for what it is and still CHOOSE my partner. No matter how cute some other guy may be, my partner always has the real scoop with me.

Quote:

Do you tell your partner everything......even when you know it will upset him/her? If you do tell them everything... How?

You don't have to know everything about each other to be a good couple, but you do need trust. Part of that trust is accepting that your partner has had their own life and will use good judgment in sharing and mitigating what is potentially toxic to your relationship. Does your partner really need to know that you wet your bed at age 5? Probably not - that's not really going to have a shattering impact on your relationship. Does your partner need to know if you were abused? Probably yes, if it's a serious relationship, because it's a part of who you are.


Relationships have a HUGE learning curve, and *everyone* struggles with them. I want you to realize that so many of the questions you are asking are perfectly normal and not necessarily a reflection of your troubled past. These are great relationship questions that everyone should ask themselves and their partner!

CoDieNOmore

I do have a need for not only someone I dated but all ppl to think I'm such a great person. Even if I don't like them.:wtf2 What is that all about??

I did hear back from my bf..... I took a risk, got honest, and he is still here!!

CoDieNOmore

I have been shopping around for a meeting that is a good fit. I will be honest, I could be doing more of that. I have some health issues that has kept me in the house a lot more...But I do need to get out there. There is a ACoA meeting tonight that I wanna check out.
Since I'm going through treatment due to a health issue I have been kinda living in this site...
Does my lack of meetings show???

CoDieNOmore

Ok... I'm getting ready for a 7:30 ACoA meeting.......

GingerM

Originally, I was going to send this to trombonliness as a PM, but I thought others might get some benefit from it as well.


This does work for us, but that doesn't mean we *want* to discuss the situation. All it does is give me (or hubby or both of us) a chance to think about how to say what we have to say and contemplate the nature of the issue.

In one case, I may come to him and tell him that something really bothered me or concerned me and that I was looking for ideas from him as to how to lessen my anxiety. Most likely, in this hypothetical situation, my first reaction would be blame - I take the time I set to figure out how to approach the problem without blame and still achieve the goal of open communications.

In a different case, I may tell him that I've realized the problem is mine. It's not uncommon for me to tell him "the issue wasn't with you, you were an innocent bystander who unwittingly pushed a button and I'm sorry that I reacted the way I did" Again, I take responsibility for what I've done, and clear communication between us helps resolve the issue.

Using your examples, say your home looks like a sty and you're absolutely sick of picking up behind the person. The time you buy by saying "I'd like to talk to you about it in XX days" gives you time to evaluate the situation. Does the other person think the house looks like a sty? (I believe that dirt-tolerance levels are one of the biggest issues in relationships btw) Does it bother them? If it only bothers you, then you're correct that this is something you may not be able to change in them, and it may be an issue you can only change within yourself. That doesn't mean you can't bring up the subject and say something like "my home is my refuge from the rest of the world and it really bothers me that it always seems to look like a hurricane came through it. I was wondering if you could help me be more comfortable in my own refuge by helping with keeping the place tidy." If the person replies that they don't have any problem with it or they become belligerent or otherwise give you a lot of resistance, then you have the answer to your question - no, they can't help you, yes, this has just become solely your issue since they have stated (obliquely) that they do not want to help you.

The same goes with discussions of money.

These conversations are never ever easy. Never. The important thing when you answer that you're not ready to talk about it is that you prepare yourself mentally for any answer you can think of so that you can stay centered on yourself and your needs and not get sucked into an argument. If they want to argue that you have unreasonable expectations about how clean it should be, you can cut that off by saying "obviously we have different [not wrong] dirt tolerances, and you can see that it would be difficult for the person to live up to your standards, so you won't be asking them to change that aspect of their personality, you will deal with it on your own"

There is an old saying: "there is strength in softness". You might want to consider the lowly moss in this saying - moss is one of the biggest killers of roofs, concrete, asphalt etc in my neck of the woods. It's such a small and insignificant plant, yet it is incredibly powerful in its abilities. By yielding, as in the quote above ("I won't ask you to change who you are"), often times this makes the other person think about how they're treating you on a regular basis, since you just described "who they are" as being slovenly.

Yes, this does work very well for me and my husband. We both use the same technique and it gives both of us time to think through what we want to say and frame what we want to say in a constructive, rather than knee jerk, manner.

No, it's not easy. Any time there is a needs conflict (you need the house to be cleaner than it usually is, your partner needs to not spend all their time cleaning the house), there will be tension and it will be sticky going. But we muddle through it anyway. If one conversation doesn't resolve it, we give it a few days and try from a different angle. The important thing is to keep the lines of communication open.

Gin

CoDieNOmore

The more I learn what healthy communication looks like the more I realize I have MUCH to learn. I never saw my parents argue or fight when I was growing up. I asked my recovering AM why this was and she told me that they (dad and her) had a understanding that he was always right and she was always wrong. Anger was not expressed in my home. The first time I saw anger it scared me to death. It does not help the fact that it was in abusive relationships and anger was often followed up with violence.
I will often agree (like my mother did) that they are right. Or I will just go with the flow, or just out right lie in order to not deal with uncomfortable emotions. It's been some time now since I have been in a violent relationship but this pattern is just so deep that I truly have to relearn how to deal with others anger as well as learning to express my own.

Everyone's comments have been very helpful...