Struggling with advice from marriage counselor

Old 03-17-2009, 10:13 AM
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Struggling with advice from marriage counselor

It’s been a while since I’ve posted on here, but I’m a regular lurker. I’ve been separated from my AH for almost a year. In addition to SR, I have an individual counselor I visit; I go to Al-Anon meetings; and I practically have a full Melody Beattie library. I’m also reading some of “Getting Them Sober”, as well as some other self-help books. In other words, I’ve been really trying to work on me. Back in August, AH & I found a marriage counselor who we see every 1-2 weeks, aside from a 5 week break earlier this year when she told AH he really needed to work on himself. I’ve made it quite clear in the marriage counseling sessions about my concerns about my AH’s drinking. I’ve also made it clear about some other issues I have with him – he’s very sensitive, emotional & needy; doesn’t take care of himself health-wise; and has financial struggles. I’ve had a couple of one-on-one sessions with the counselor where I’ve expressed those concerns, as well. In one of those sessions, the counselor said she was also concerned about AH’s drinking & the feasibility of our relationship working b/c of the gap between us – as in I’ve done a lot of work on myself, but he hasn’t. She even gave me suggestions about collaborative divorce that’s available in Texas. To make a long story short, after the 5 week break from seeing her, we go back & I say how I don’t think anything has changed. Yes, he’s going to this individual therapist, but he’s not talking about his drinking (his admission.) He still wants to drink & finds me unreasonable b/c I don’t want him to drink even 1 beer around me (long story.) I feel we’re not getting anywhere, but we go to another session last night. It didn’t start off well when she forgot she had scheduled us, and we had to call her on her cell phone after waiting in the lobby for 15 minutes for her to show up … In this session, the marriage counselor tells us she thinks we’ll be OK b/c we’re just going through the 7-year itch (we’ve been married 6+ years & together 12+ years). She then suggests that I let AH move back in with me for 2 months, with certain parameters in place, to see how things go & for him to prove how he’s changed. I was stunned on both counts. In typing this out, I think I know the answer to my questions, but I’d like some other perspective. Is this marriage counselor worth my time and money? She says she’s dealt with alcoholism/addiction issues, but I really question that. I had a good session with my therapist yesterday where she stressed that I need to focus on me & my feelings & not how my A feels. So, I start to focus on that, and then I get hit by a curve ball from the marriage counselor. Any input from anyone else who’s dealt with mixed messages from different counselors? I appreciate your honesty & advice. Thanks.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:23 AM
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Well, first of all, it helps to remember that counselors are there to help us figure things out, not to figure them out for us. My counselor was very wise and hit the nail on the head for me about 90% of the time. But, there were still those 10% suggestions that were totally wrong for me and my situation. She is, after all, only human. I didn't have more than one, so I didn't have to deal with mixed advice from two places, but I would guess that your personal counselor not only knows you better, but has your well-being as top priority. A marriage counselor, by definition, has the marriage as a top priority. Knowing all that, plus trusting your gut, I bet you will come to the best decision for you.

L
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:33 AM
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LTD - You should be a counselor. You sound just like mine! Very sage advice.

Anvilhead - Yeah, I kinda thought that about paying for it, too, except that she comp'd us last night's session because she forgot about us & showed up late. Guess you get what you pay for, right?
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:44 AM
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Okay, I had to read through your post a couple of times, and make sure I understood that you did have a couple of one-on-one sessions with the marriage counselor with that 5 week break.

She definitely threw you a curve ball from what you had previously discussed with her one on one, and you have a right to trust your feelings/gut.

I want to share with you an experience with a counselor I had when my youngest was 15. This was during a period when all sorts of red flags were going up, she was depressed, cutting on herself, hooking up with older men behind my back, and I was frantic. We started joint counseling with a gal who had been recommended by a fellow AA member as this counselor was also in recovery and familiar with family issues.

Naturally my then 15 year old daughter was sullen and not very cooperative, but the counselor worked very hard at trying to get her to look at her pattern of the inappropriate relationships with older men, and that there was something wrong with older men who were picking up with under-aged girls. She was also trying to work with her depression issues, and our primary care physician had started her on some antidepressants.

As things escalated, my daughter started seeing a 24 year old jerk, I ended up having to call the police one day to get him off of my property, and was understandably upset beyond description. My daughter had a counseling session a few days later-there were times she went by herself so she didn't have me in the room so maybe she would open up more, and I called the counselor ahead of time to fill her in on what had happened.

I picked my daughter up from school for counseling that day, came back an hour later, and as I was driving her back to school, she turned to me and said the counselor told her I just needed to 'lighten up' and let her start seeing this guy, that maybe she didn't have any issues and was just going through the rebellious stage, and you can imagine how livid I was! I tried very hard to keep my cool, was thinking maybe my daughter was blowing smoke up my butt, and decided to go back and confront the counselor after I dropped my daughter off at school.

I went back and demanded to see the counselor. She took me back to her office and I asked her if what my daughter had told me was true. She told me yes and I completely lost it right then and there. I told her that all those weeks of hard work of trying to get my daughter to see what predators those guys were, and she undid it in one session! I ran out of there crying.

I think it is no small coincidence that was also her last day at work as she was moving back home to take care of her elderly parents. I guarantee I would have gone to whoever I needed to had that not been her last day for doing what she did.

My daughter did run away shortly after that in the middle of the night with that 24 year old and ended up as a ward of the state for 17 long months.

Counselors are not infallible. Please trust your gut.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:09 AM
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You know I almost think the counselor had you confused with some one else given the contrast in advice!

Go with your gut and do what you think is best for you.
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:49 PM
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CatsnDogs.....what is the reason you separated from your AH in the first place?

And.....has that situation changed? Or has he indicated that he will change it? Or even consider it?

Sometimes people are just not compatible. I myself couldn't live with someone who abused alcohol, was emotionally needy, and couldn't handle his finances -- I wouldn't last a week.

The biggest dealbreaker for me is always whether someone else is willing to work on themselves as hard as I'm willing to work on US. If not, that's a huge sign that I am burnin' daylight with them and am just courting frustration.

Trust your gut. And consider redirecting the cost of those joint sessions into more sessions for yourself. You are DOING the hard work of improving, and it sounds like you're on the verge of something wonderful, but your heart is still trapped in this unchanging situation.

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Old 03-18-2009, 04:03 AM
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Counsellors are only human. I have (so far) a wonderful counsellor for myself, but we've had a pretty duff marriage counsellor, but really only duff because he wasn't equipped to deal with AH's drinking issues, and My issues with his drinking.....he's probably great at the whole "he never does the washing up/she's always nagging me about the washing up" thing.

So you've been split up for a year, he's still drinking, he thinks he should be able to drink, you don't want him drinking around you, sounds like an impasse to me.

You've been having counselling for that time, individual and together.

My experience of marriage guidance counselling was that they have a fairly limited skill set, that centres on one or both of you moving to a position were you are both happy for the marriage to continue, or if you can't, help you to see that and move on, there is no moral "right position" for this equilibrium, if one of you were happy to never have sex and for the other one to have millions of affairs and the other one was too, they'd help you find that equilibrium.

She might just have reached the limit of her skill set, and have gone through everything she knows how to do to get one/both of you to move in some way that would resolve this situation and has therefore suggested moving back in as a kill or cure impasse-breaking thing.

I.e that one (or both) of you will either think, sod this, it's never going to work, we are too different and want different things out of life, lets end it. Or you'll both think "it isn't as bad as we remembered lets move forward from here.

Sweetheart, what do you want from the counselling? he sounds very firm that he wants to continue drinking, marriage counselling isn't going to change that, his individual counselling can only help him stop if he wants to, which he doesn't, and your counselling will help you make decisions and changes in your life, not his.

So if you aren't prepared to bend and change in order to accept his drinking around you, and fully EMBRACE that choice, (and I'm not for a second suggesting you do, I am in exactly the same boat), then what do you think this can achieve?

(edited because my spelling is abysmal)
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CatsnDogs4Me View Post
It’s been a while since I’ve posted on here, but I’m a regular lurker. I’ve been separated from my AH for almost a year. In addition to SR, I have an individual counselor I visit; I go to Al-Anon meetings; and I practically have a full Melody Beattie library. I’m also reading some of “Getting Them Sober”, as well as some other self-help books. In other words, I’ve been really trying to work on me. Back in August, AH & I found a marriage counselor who we see every 1-2 weeks, aside from a 5 week break earlier this year when she told AH he really needed to work on himself. I’ve made it quite clear in the marriage counseling sessions about my concerns about my AH’s drinking. I’ve also made it clear about some other issues I have with him – he’s very sensitive, emotional & needy; doesn’t take care of himself health-wise; and has financial struggles. I’ve had a couple of one-on-one sessions with the counselor where I’ve expressed those concerns, as well. In one of those sessions, the counselor said she was also concerned about AH’s drinking & the feasibility of our relationship working b/c of the gap between us – as in I’ve done a lot of work on myself, but he hasn’t. She even gave me suggestions about collaborative divorce that’s available in Texas. To make a long story short, after the 5 week break from seeing her, we go back & I say how I don’t think anything has changed. Yes, he’s going to this individual therapist, but he’s not talking about his drinking (his admission.) He still wants to drink & finds me unreasonable b/c I don’t want him to drink even 1 beer around me (long story.) I feel we’re not getting anywhere, but we go to another session last night. It didn’t start off well when she forgot she had scheduled us, and we had to call her on her cell phone after waiting in the lobby for 15 minutes for her to show up … In this session, the marriage counselor tells us she thinks we’ll be OK b/c we’re just going through the 7-year itch (we’ve been married 6+ years & together 12+ years). She then suggests that I let AH move back in with me for 2 months, with certain parameters in place, to see how things go & for him to prove how he’s changed. I was stunned on both counts. In typing this out, I think I know the answer to my questions, but I’d like some other perspective. Is this marriage counselor worth my time and money? She says she’s dealt with alcoholism/addiction issues, but I really question that. I had a good session with my therapist yesterday where she stressed that I need to focus on me & my feelings & not how my A feels. So, I start to focus on that, and then I get hit by a curve ball from the marriage counselor. Any input from anyone else who’s dealt with mixed messages from different counselors? I appreciate your honesty & advice. Thanks.
Thought I'd point this out, you mentioned reading 'some of' the TRD books, the last in the series, volume 4, has a chapter devoted to counseling. The author points out that often times, the professional comes from a very dysfunctional background themselves, and will give you bad advice. Something to think about, it does make sense, what better profession for a codependent to have, always 'helping' people, as the author mentions.

The title of the last volume is "Separation Decisions", a good read for someone that's at the point you are in your relationship.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:10 AM
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" Is this marriage counselor worth my time and money? "

IMO, no.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:23 AM
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Thought I'd point this out, you mentioned reading 'some of' the TRD books, the last in the series, volume 4, has a chapter devoted to counseling. The author points out that often times, the professional comes from a very dysfunctional background themselves, and will give you bad advice. Something to think about, it does make sense, what better profession for a codependent to have, always 'helping' people, as the author mentions.
LOL, I have to say that I've always thought that the people I've known, who've gone on to study counselling, are those who could most benefit (IMO: which obviously means knowt) from HAVING counselling, and I wouldn't want to pay for them to work out their issues at my time of need......

but that can't be true for all of them, its a small sample, and I know some very unhealthy people (like attracts like....)
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by *Ceridwen View Post
LOL, I have to say that I've always thought that the people I've known, who've gone on to study counselling, are those who could most benefit (IMO: which obviously means knowt) from HAVING counselling, and I wouldn't want to pay for them to work out their issues at my time of need......

but that can't be true for all of them, its a small sample, and I know some very unhealthy people (like attracts like....)
That has been my experience as well, I have had three great therapists, I mean incredible, and seen a few bad ones when I was shopping, as in heard some amazingly jaw dropping stupidity come out of these peoples mouths.

Bad therapists .....I mean...wow...no comment....they remind me of Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter Books, fuzzy sweaters, kittens and pure evil (stupidity)

The Folks I have known in AA that have gone on to get their therapy degrees generally speaking, when told...I like...pause....and go...hmm...well....there it is.

It's like the truly sick go get jobs as therapists and the ones that go get healthy go get lives.

Not always, but there has been a definite pattern.

I was seeing one counselor for awhile.....phew, I mean I don't want to hear about some guy named "monster" that used to beat you up when you had three years of sobriety every week, you know? I never dated anyone named monster, I never plan on dating anyone named monster, and I don't care that you dated a guy named monster, it's just not relevant. Now I'm seeing a different one, the difference is AMAZING.

Night and day, I always walk out now with a LOT to think about.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:16 PM
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Thank you all for your helpful input. I talked with a friend of mine for a while yesterday, too, about it. She's been very supportive and honest with me (and is good at reminding me when my codie-ways kick in.) You've given me a lot of good information for me put into my ever-processing brain to help me figure out what my next steps will be. Just gotta say - you guys rock! Thank goodness for SR!
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:13 AM
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hi catsndogs

reading your post reminds me a lot of my own situation. best advice i know - trust your gut and quicker rather than later.

i've been with my ah about just as long as you have 10 years. married 5 of those years.

his attitude has been much the same in the wanting me to just "accept" his drinking and in the going to counseling...AA...outpatinet rehab... and still drinking and not doing the really hard work on himself. so i know that story.

we went to a marriage counselor. who i remember saying that it would not take "that long" to resolve or come to a conclusion on our issues. we went together for about a year, but whenever it came to the issue of ah stopping drinking or him dealing with his family issues, he put a halt to it. he then refused to go with me and he went to individual with her for a short period....

i continued ON MY OWN to go to her for TWO years. codie in me feeling guilty if i left her and scared to try something different. BUT, all along my gut told me that she was not giving me the help that i needed and that i should switch counselors (go back to one i went to for depression and when i was struggling with grief over losing my dad and the break up of a relationship and then when i felt my insecurity jeapordized my relationship with ah).

so FINALLY, i got up the nerve to go with my gut and go back to MY old counselor that had always helped me before and in a very short quick period of time and finally i have some relief and feel better.

she quickly started treating the depression and put me on anti-depressants - which i needed. her therapy has helped me more in just a couple of sessions than two years with the other counselor. there is no confusion with her, she gets straight to the point, gives homework, and actually offers direction.

i just wish i wouldn't have wasted over two years in a situation with a counselor that i knew in my gut wasn't helping me as much as she should.

so, the lesson i learned. if something isn't working try something different - YOU CAN ALWAYS GO BACK if you find it is a mistake.

as far as AH, he - on his own -he found a church that seems to be helping him and renewing his spirit. he seems to be working through his issues there. he goes and dedicates his time to it. his actions there show progress and growth.

in the meantime, i have found that my own issues, actions, and depression have had an impact on our marriage. i'm working on my own "stuff" and at same time he is working on his own "stuff".

we've went to the pastor for a marriage counseling session, haven't been back again because i have left it up to ah to pursue this if he wants to put the effort into it, but i can say that ONE session helped us more than two years with the old counselor.

i don't have any answers on where our marriage will go, if we'll stay married, or end up divorced, but i've found a solution that works for myself at the moment. i guess it all depends on how much work, effort, and change actually occurs.

find what works for you and if something doesn't don't be afraid to change it
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