Random thoughts

Old 02-22-2009, 08:14 PM
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Random thoughts

I'm trying to sort things out in my head. I started working on ME a couple weeks ago. Saturday (2 weeks ago) was my first meeting. Interestingly, my AH last drank 2 weeks ago on Sunday. I laid down the boundary that I was no longer willing to live in a home where I (or the kids or the dog) were being verbally or emotionally abused. Much of what he had done in the past was very subtle and has taken me a long time to identify as abusive. Some of his behaviors were not so subtle, and I chose to deny. Anyhow, he knows I have seen an attorney and I told him I would be calling her if needed. I intentionally did not address his drinking, because I am not prepared, at this time, to stand by that and am not sure how to approach it as a boundary and not an ultimatum.

Long story short, he has been friendly, warm, engaging. He's helpful with the kids. He's "that guy" I have been missing for so long. So I should be happy and grateful, right? I know it's only 2 short weeks, and I know that the chance that things will take a turn south is very likely. I've been burnt one too many times and I'm not letting my guard down. But here's where I'm struggling. IF he really can turn it off and on so easily then why the he!! has he spent the last 2 years so miserable and making us all so miserable too? IF it is so easy for him to be "that guy" then where has he been all this time? Is it pure manipulation? I guess time will tell. My plan is to keep working on me. Keep up the meetings, and counseling. Keep coming here for y'all's wisdom. Thanks for letting me get my thoughts out....it really does help. My therapy assignment for the week is to identify what I'm feeling and when. Not to analyze or try to change it, just be aware. Right now I'm a little ticked that it seems so easy for him to turn it off and on......and that every bit of hurt I've felt for the past years should so easily be dissolved.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by blessed4x View Post
IF he really can turn it off and on so easily then why the he!! has he spent the last 2 years so miserable and making us all so miserable too?
I think this is an interesting observation.

My STBXAH has managed to control his alcohol intake (meaning he is totally abstinent) around our son for the last year, and he touts this success as evidence that his old "problem" has been resolved. He is in control. It is easy.

While I don't really believe that P is in control of his alcohol problem (I know that he still drinks alcoholically 2 or more times each week - just not anywhere near our son), it was helpful for me to play a little "as if" game here.

In my head I did a thought experiment: I proceeded as if P was telling the truth. I choose to imagine that he could control his alcohol intake, that it was easy for him to choose not to drink. Afterall, when it was really important to him (like childcare issues), he put down the bottle and picked up the bedtime story.

So, let's say that when it's really important to him he can abstain from alcohol and be a pleasant, responsible person.
That MUST mean that I am not important to him - not as important as alcohol.

My STBXAH's insistence that he can control himself was one of the things that finally put me over the top about leaving.

He'd set up a lose-lose situation:
If he can't control the alcohol but refuses treatment for his addiction,then he is an alcoholic in denial. He is very ill.
If he can control the alcohol, then his continued drinking is evidence of his lack of love and respect for me. It shows me that I am not important to him.

Either way, I needed to get the heck out of there.
Sorry if I wandered off topic here, Blessed - keep up the good work!

-TC
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:13 PM
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I think more that the on/off switch is.... thinking that this may be going south any day now, instead of, is this for real? We always get our hopes up that "maybe this time" but then south we go. I'm there now. even though I'm not with my AH he is building a realtionship with the kids and it is going well, but in the back of my head is"when is this going south?"
Hang in there!
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:57 PM
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I understand what you say.... My Ah's behavior all these year makes me think of a cat playing with an injured mouse it has caught. When the mouse is not moving, the cat shoves it around just to check that it is still alive, and the "game" goes on until the mouse dies.... Just like my AH has been playing with my love for him for 10 years. He would play Mr super nice when I was completely down and thinking of leaving, just long enough for me to question my own sanity, get up and get on with our life together. Until that time when my love truly died, so now he has convieniently gone to detox, thinking that somehow, I will get up again. But I can't. I just can't do this anymore. And maybe he is not playing anymore but he played for far too long.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:39 AM
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I understand too, I'm have been at times left open mouthed at my XA's complete change of character, I used to start to doubt my sanity like if my memories of all the awful abusive times were wrong or if I really did cause them, but listen to your instincts becasue they are looking after you.

I really hope it's a positive and permanent change and I would guess that deep down he would like to be like that all of the time, I mean who wouldn't? but I can't answer the why you are rightly asking yourself about him chosing when you get to see it or even if he's aware he is foing it.

Toughchoices, I have to believe that mine 'can't' control it because the hurt that thinking he 'can' would be too unbearable for me at the moment......


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Old 02-23-2009, 03:38 AM
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((((Blessed))) You know in your head that things will go eventually south, because it is the cycle that continues to go round...

IMHO I think this is manipulation...He is in the OH CRAP stage. You (codie) are throwing things off balance and changing the status quo and he is not quite sure what you are doing...so he better be on his best behavior. It is what it is....It is so hard in our heads when they are being caring, it is when they are A$$e$ that makes it so much easier, for me anway...
:ghug3
Do what you have been doing, take care of YOU. It still is helpful that he is being this "nice" guy while you are in the process of taking care of YOU!!!!
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:46 AM
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Yes, I've seen that in my STXAH too over the years. He usually gets back to the way he was for a short time after a DUI, and accident, or when he gets into other trouble. Like cyclelady said, it is the "OH CRAP" stage and they get scared that things are changing and they won't be able to keep their addiction going. They lure you in and then when they think things are back the way they want them - little by little they change back to Mr. Hyde. It's what alcoholics do so they can continue in their addiction.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ToughChoices View Post
He'd set up a lose-lose situation:
If he can't control the alcohol but refuses treatment for his addiction,then he is an alcoholic in denial. He is very ill.
If he can control the alcohol, then his continued drinking is evidence of his lack of love and respect for me. It shows me that I am not important to him.
As usual, your insight nailed it for me. It's the "lack of love and respect for me" that I think I'm feeling ticked off about. I seriously doubt that my setting up a boundary snapped him back into reality......but you never know. I think more likely he sees that I am changing, and that I really am serious about calling the attorney (which I absulutely am). If he continues the past behavior it will cost him. Literally, it will cost him big......child support for 4 children ain't cheap.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bearfeet View Post

Toughchoices, I have to believe that mine 'can't' control it because the hurt that thinking he 'can' would be too unbearable for me at the moment......
If he can control it, and chooses not to out of a lack of love and respect, that says absolutely nothing about you. Nothing. It does not mean that you are bad or unworthy or unlovable. Absolutely not.

We are more than what others make us.

Hang in there!
-TC
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:07 AM
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My husband used to 'quit drinking' all the time. And, yes, it was always when he knew that he had gone too far and I was this close to calling it quits. Once, he quit for four months. Two weeks is nothing. My aunt once told me that alcoholics are capable of doing just about anything (including temporarily quitting drinking) in order to get what they want.

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Old 02-23-2009, 11:49 AM
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Chris (my xabf) was very good about "quitting" for awhile, too. When he felt he HAD to, to keep me from leaving him, to protect his disease, is what it all boiled down to. I enabled his alcoholism, so the disease was talking and put him in to "be nice so she doesn't leave" mode, I guess. Because then I will have to live at my mom's, and that won't look good, that will look like I have a problem. Stuff like that.

Perfect example is when we got back together at the beginning of December. He was the seemingly "perfect" boyfriend, no drinking, no being mean, engaging with us as a family, helping around the house. For a week or two anyway. Then, little by little, even though he didn't drink...he was grouchy, restless, irritable, selfish, started "blaming"....started picking fights.

Without recovery, in my opinion, they never stay that way.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:00 PM
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I second what kemit and bearfeet are saying.. Mine is in the "nice" part of his cycle too. And just like you Blessed I'm left thinking and feeling.. is this real? when will the other shoe drop? If it was this easy, why didn't he do it before?

He's had one slip up, but is back on track so I don't know what to think. My boundary isn't about drinking, so he's still doing that, but I told him that it's the abusive traits that I won't live with. If he can be a civil, non-fighting, accepting drinker, than do it.. be in denial, I'll deal with that bridge when we come to it. But for now what I can't live with is the fighting, name calling, put-downs and general uneasiness I have in my own house. He got it, and changed.. but then.. I realized he only changed because he expected something from me. Then he could throw what his amazing change in my face. This was the slip up.

I explained to him.. all of the things he was doing didn't amount to bull if he wasn't doing them for himself. He couldn't and shouldn't change for me, he needed to do it for him. Spending time with your family is not something you can use for leverage, you need to do it because you want to do it. I also explained that I do indeed understand (to the best of my ability) his feelings and I do care about them, but that I can't care about them to the extent of making myself do something I'm not comfortable with. I won't let his "good show" be used for manipulation. That he has the equal opportunities and choices to make that I do.

If he doesn't like the choices I'm making (to take care of me first) then he can choose to deal with it or leave. Just the same as I can choose to deal with him or leave. That actually seemed to make a lot of sense to him and the week since then has been good. Even with my Mom visiting.. Which is UNHEARD of!! So we'll see where it goes, but unfortunately I still am living with some apprehension that the other shoe will drop. I wish I didn't feel that way, but it's happened so many times before that it's impossible to have blind faith.

Good luck and enjoy the calm waters..
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:17 PM
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isitme.....I get the same "expecting something" in return for doing the things that any husband and father should be doing. The fact that there is such a stark contrast between how he WAS behaving and how he IS behaving should not be a reason for owing him favors. In the past, it has always led to him accusing me of being cold and not responsive enough intimately. So far that hasn't been an issue this time, but like LTD said....."two weeks is nothing".

I'm thankful for you that "get it", and for those of you who can look at it from the outside and shed some light for me. This (SR) is such an amazing place.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:24 PM
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Mine is also usually contigent upon intamacy.. In fact I would venture out there and say it is Always about that. When asked what else it is that I do that is bothersome or needs work from his perspective.. Silence. He has no answer.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:38 PM
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When I read these post, I find it comforting, yet scary to see that non recovering addicts use the same exact tricks and manipulative tools.... I wish I had seen all this before. It baffles me my to realise that my self esteem must have been so low that not only did I tolerate his behavior, but also blamed myself for being upset with it....

It still continues the usual bargain thing: he is nice, helpful but expects something in return, as in, me moving back with him. I know that if I don't, then he will say that I am never satisfied with anything and that nothing he could do would be enough for me... Well, whatever, I don't really care anymore what he thinks about me. I know what I think about myself....
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:57 PM
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just want to put in my two cents worth-but isn't this the whole part of why we are here? the al-anon program is meant to be for positive growth with the premise that as we grow and change and "improve" then the alcoholic has to change as well. so as we all know how it feels to be waiting for the other shoe to drop...maybe we should be grateful for the subtle changes that began with us!!! Al-anon slogan...Let It Begin With Me! Congrats blessed-this may be what you've really been hoping for. just remember to keep the focus on YOUR recovery.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:41 PM
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Blessed, Keep working on you. I totally understand where you are coming from. In my case after being manipulated to for 20+ years I got sort of confused as to what was real and what was just more quacking.

Such good stuff here at SR, its been a real life line for me sometimes to just read the treads and know I am not alone.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
the al-anon program is meant to be for positive growth with the premise that as we grow and change and "improve" then the alcoholic has to change as well.
I thought the AlAnon program was to help us recover from the effects of alcoholism in our families, regardless of what the alcoholic does? My AH has no desire to change and, as far as I can tell, our marriage breaking up has made no difference to his drinking. Yet, I still think of Al Anaon as being appropriate for those in my situation.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:48 AM
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bookwyrm.....we had that exact conversation at the meeting I went to Saturday. About half of the people in the group are divorced, and half still married, some happily and some struggling. There was a lot of emphasis on the fact that some people shy away from Alanon because they get the idea it is all about learning to detach and live WITH your alcoholic. I was reassured that it is for ANYONE affected by another's use of alcohol......whether that other person is living, dead, in the home, or out. I am so grateful for that group of women who get together on Saturday morning. I feel like I was put there by my HP at just the right time. For anyone else on the fence about whether to try it out, or making excuse after excuse about why they can't go like I did, please give it a chance.
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