What's the Point of Marriage Counseling at this Point?
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
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What's the Point of Marriage Counseling at this Point?
My STBXAH is trying to put on a good show for everyone and should be given a best actor Oscar. He is going to the counselor (keeps telling me about it) and now is speaking of going to marriage counseling with me in a month. What the he** is the point of going to marriage counseling when he is still going to the bar (and lying about it to his mother and my son) and texting the he** out of his girl"friend" that he has always spent more time with then his children. This counselor is the partner of the counselor he is seeing now. I don't think that that is a good idea as the guy he wants to see is also his mother's psychiatrist. I'd rather have a neutral party. But really, what would be the point? I asked my STBXAH what he wanted to get out of marriage counseling at this point and he said "I don't know".But I know the point is what do I expect to get out of marriage counseling. I know what I want will never happen as going to marriage counseling when only one person in the marriage is willing to change and admit mistakes (me) will never work. NEVER. I want him to get into recovery (not in my control) and to stop seeing his girl"friend" (not in my control either). God, grant me the serenity to accept . . .
I am going back to counseling myself as the last counselor I had did not have a lot of expertise in alcoholism or co-dependency and kept telling me to be more assertive, but I don't think she got the alcoholism part to it. How can you be more assertive to an alcoholic in the way she was telling me to be?
I LOVE my new al-anon group and am doing some good work on my steps and feel I actually like this group of people and feel at home there. That is something that I didn't have with my old group and I'm finding that it is important to find a group that you feel like are old friends.:ghug
I am going back to counseling myself as the last counselor I had did not have a lot of expertise in alcoholism or co-dependency and kept telling me to be more assertive, but I don't think she got the alcoholism part to it. How can you be more assertive to an alcoholic in the way she was telling me to be?
I LOVE my new al-anon group and am doing some good work on my steps and feel I actually like this group of people and feel at home there. That is something that I didn't have with my old group and I'm finding that it is important to find a group that you feel like are old friends.:ghug
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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There isn't any point in marriage counseling. He hasn't addressed his alcoholism.
That's like trying to put the cart before the horse.
You just keep doing what you are doing for yourself because you sound pretty darned good, gal! :ghug :ghug
That's like trying to put the cart before the horse.
You just keep doing what you are doing for yourself because you sound pretty darned good, gal! :ghug :ghug
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,695
It sounds like you don't want to be married to a man who drinks excessively and sleeps with other women.
It sounds like he is a man who drinks excessively and sleeps with other women.
I'm not sure any amount of marriage counseling can correct the lack of compatibility in that system.
My STBXAH is very willing to attend marriage counseling, but very unwilling to address his issues with addiction. I, personally, feel that the push for marriage counseling is, at this point, a means of redirecting the focus of the problem from his drinking on to our relationship. That's a tiresome path that I am not going to walk down.
It sounds like he is a man who drinks excessively and sleeps with other women.
I'm not sure any amount of marriage counseling can correct the lack of compatibility in that system.
My STBXAH is very willing to attend marriage counseling, but very unwilling to address his issues with addiction. I, personally, feel that the push for marriage counseling is, at this point, a means of redirecting the focus of the problem from his drinking on to our relationship. That's a tiresome path that I am not going to walk down.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
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Thanks Freedom. It is hard for me right now, but I can see the end of the tunnel -- and the sunlight looks and feels so good. Your right, he hasn't addressed his alcoholism, I believe not even in counseling as he has told me that he hasn't told the counselor his "whole truth". Sad. I thought that this was his chance to work on himself, but he isn't addressing his real issue and maybe never will -- but that is not in my control. I actually look forward to my Friday al-anon group and will start calling some of them too as there are a lot of people in there that are very wise and have a lot of experience.
You know it took me a long time to accept Step One in al-anon, but I finally really have. It is actually a huge sense of relief to know that I didn't cause it and can't control it. Now I can concentrate on more important issues that I can control, such as my own recovery. I can't stress enough about how important it is to find a great al-anon group that you feel comfortable in.
You know it took me a long time to accept Step One in al-anon, but I finally really have. It is actually a huge sense of relief to know that I didn't cause it and can't control it. Now I can concentrate on more important issues that I can control, such as my own recovery. I can't stress enough about how important it is to find a great al-anon group that you feel comfortable in.
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Wow, toughchoices, it sounds like we are in the same boat. I think your right, as soon as we get into see a counselor and I bring up the other women and alcohol issues he will butt right in and tell him that I don't spend enough time with him, I don't listen to him, quack, quack, quack. It would just be frustrating and not fruitful to my recovery at all.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,695
It's helpful for me to think about whether the choices that my STBXAH makes are compatible with the life I want for myself.
It is HIS life and he can do with it as he pleases. Period.
It is not my place to say what he should and should not be doing. He wants to drink? OK. He wants to miss work? OK. He wants to isolate and accuse? OK.
Those are all his choices, and he will bear the consequences of those choices.
But, this is MY life, and I can do with it what I please. Period.
And it does not please me to share my life with someone who does not share my passions, appreciate my concerns, or validate my emotions.
I want respect. OK. I want responsibility. OK I want friendship and affection. OK.
You can see how our lists of "wants" don't match anymore. I am unwilling to change my "wants" and he is unwilling to change his. What's left to talk about? We are at an impasse.
Hugs to you, Blondie. You sound good!
-TC
It is HIS life and he can do with it as he pleases. Period.
It is not my place to say what he should and should not be doing. He wants to drink? OK. He wants to miss work? OK. He wants to isolate and accuse? OK.
Those are all his choices, and he will bear the consequences of those choices.
But, this is MY life, and I can do with it what I please. Period.
And it does not please me to share my life with someone who does not share my passions, appreciate my concerns, or validate my emotions.
I want respect. OK. I want responsibility. OK I want friendship and affection. OK.
You can see how our lists of "wants" don't match anymore. I am unwilling to change my "wants" and he is unwilling to change his. What's left to talk about? We are at an impasse.
Hugs to you, Blondie. You sound good!
-TC
"Taking the risk to blossom"
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: a little piece of heaven! Ontario Canada
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Hi Blondie -- I found that, every time my AH would binge and there would be the ensuing chaos afterward, he would agree to go to marriage counselling, but never counselling to address his addictions. Once he even told me "sure, I'll go to counselling, marriage counselling. You might not like what I have to say." I'm sure the drive to go was to "fix me". Admittedly, that was my motivation in going as well -- for him to see the light. In the long run, it was manipulative on both our parts and did no good whatsoever.
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You sound good too. Wow, I like your take on things. I too have made a list of what I want in a relationship and also my boundries and he just doesn't fit into my life in any way, shape or form (not in a healthy way anyhow). He is who he is - an active alcoholic. And I do not want to live my life in the tornado that surrounds an alcoholic - I just wouldn't survive.
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Yes, I think that he is trying to "fix me" so that I conform to his expectations again (I'm the provoker as it says in the alanon handout I've got). He still says HE doesn't have a problem so that leaves only me. Boy, that's telling. I know I have problems and am addressing them, but when an active alcoholic says he has no problems that is a case of huge denial, so they have to blame someone else for the problems. And he is trying with all his might to convince me that I'm to blame for his cheating and drinking - but I know that no matter what I did I didn't cause either of those things to occur. I didn't cause it and I can't cure it.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I am kind of in the same boat as you Blondie. My AH has mentioned us going to marriage counseling. My initial thought is that it would not be beneficial to us. I am considering individual counseling for myself and I think AH would benefit from individual counseling as well. Also, he has not drank for about 18 days, but I am bracing myself for the next binge. It could begin any minute now. With the mood he is in today, I would have to predict that he will storm out today (it will be my fault, of course, because I am such a bitch) and disappear for a day or two. I need a break from him anyway.
Blondie, I will pray for you. I am following your thread because I, too, am struggling with this. Part of me says he is a jerk, drunk and sober, and he will never be the loving husband that I want in my life so I should just end it now. The other part of me says don't give up so quickly. Boy, I am having another bad day.
Blondie, I will pray for you. I am following your thread because I, too, am struggling with this. Part of me says he is a jerk, drunk and sober, and he will never be the loving husband that I want in my life so I should just end it now. The other part of me says don't give up so quickly. Boy, I am having another bad day.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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I went to marriage counseling with AH. It solved absolutely NOTHING. He couldn't admit to himself that he was an alcoholic (he still can't) so of course he went there to blame everything on me. I was a nag, I was a Bible thumper, I was dead boring and didn't know how to have fun, I was antisocial because I didn't like any of his disrespectful, obnoxious, alcoholic friends. He actually suggested to the marriage counselor that one of our biggest problems was that I DON'T drink, he also suggested that as a way to spend more time with each other, I should join him at the bar.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
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I was very fortunate to have a counselor who specialized in codependents and addicts. He addressed my codependency; however, after the fourth session, he told my AH, "We have to address your drinking."
Guess who suddenly had to work O/T and had after-work-hours meetings at the same time as our counseling session? Needless to say, my counselor and I decided to leave AH out of the sessions. I got a great deal from working with him on a one-to-one basis.
AH? He got zip. Nada. Zilch. Most of his answers to the counselor were vague and downright DUMB. So for me, it was a complete waste of time to have him there.
If an A wants to seek counseling, great. But anyone who is actively pursuing their addiction won't get anything out of counseling; and any counselor worth his salt won't work with a client in such a condition.
Guess who suddenly had to work O/T and had after-work-hours meetings at the same time as our counseling session? Needless to say, my counselor and I decided to leave AH out of the sessions. I got a great deal from working with him on a one-to-one basis.
AH? He got zip. Nada. Zilch. Most of his answers to the counselor were vague and downright DUMB. So for me, it was a complete waste of time to have him there.
If an A wants to seek counseling, great. But anyone who is actively pursuing their addiction won't get anything out of counseling; and any counselor worth his salt won't work with a client in such a condition.
When Pigs Fly
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: california
Posts: 894
My husband had been going to counseling, I was asked to go one time, we were talking about all kinds of stuff, then I asked, "But what about the hidden alcohol bottles, and the drinking?" The counselor look at me like Huh?
Later after a visit by myself she said that my husband was the best lier I have ever seen.
YEP~
Later after a visit by myself she said that my husband was the best lier I have ever seen.
YEP~
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
I was seeing a counselor individually when I begin contemplating leaving my AH. When I first told him I was considering leaving I gave him the counselor's phone number. (I did it to try to soften the blow for him, so it was actually pretty co-dependent of me.) He DID call her and gave her some wild story about how I had gone off the deep end, so much so that she called me at work to see if I was ok.
We split and reconciled a couple of times. During the split he would be all for counseling. As soon as I would come back I would just wait for him to call and make an appointment. I figured if he wanted counseling HE could at least set up the appointments. He would only get "serious" about it when I would threaten to leave. So, we wound up going to a couple of sessions. The whole experience was really eye-opening for me. First of all, the no-action on his part unless I was threatening to leave (manipulation). Second, watching him in the sessions playing the pity card with his disability and seeming so remorseful about everything. When I heard him saying he was "sorry" for certain actions, and then immediatey adding "but she did this", or "but she didn't do this" I knew he was taking NO responsibility for any of his actions and did not truly want to change. Sad thing was that the counselor felt sorry enough for him that she bought in to it all. I left him, and found a new counselor.
Funny thing was, on my way out the door when I finally decided FOR SURE to go, he asked me if I would take him to counseling (he can't drive). I said no, I would not. I knew IF he wanted to go he could figure out a way. He never did -- it was just a last ditch manipulation effort.
We split and reconciled a couple of times. During the split he would be all for counseling. As soon as I would come back I would just wait for him to call and make an appointment. I figured if he wanted counseling HE could at least set up the appointments. He would only get "serious" about it when I would threaten to leave. So, we wound up going to a couple of sessions. The whole experience was really eye-opening for me. First of all, the no-action on his part unless I was threatening to leave (manipulation). Second, watching him in the sessions playing the pity card with his disability and seeming so remorseful about everything. When I heard him saying he was "sorry" for certain actions, and then immediatey adding "but she did this", or "but she didn't do this" I knew he was taking NO responsibility for any of his actions and did not truly want to change. Sad thing was that the counselor felt sorry enough for him that she bought in to it all. I left him, and found a new counselor.
Funny thing was, on my way out the door when I finally decided FOR SURE to go, he asked me if I would take him to counseling (he can't drive). I said no, I would not. I knew IF he wanted to go he could figure out a way. He never did -- it was just a last ditch manipulation effort.
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Yes, I see a lot of people in the same boat. I am glad that my AH is getting counseling for himself, but I believe that he is not serious about it. He got a handout from his counselor about Ways of Rejecting and on the other side was Ways of Injuring. He was reading it (and making it obvious by holding it in front of his face and clearing his throat) when I came to drop off my son for a visit. I don't know why he wanted me to see that he was reading it, but today when I came to use the computer it was next to his chair and I am reading it. Real eye opener. A LOT of it applies to him. Example of rejecting: Keeping secrets that matter to avoid conflict with your mate (he has hidden and still hides the fact he is still seeing OW and drinking), emotional withholding, saying your mate is exaggerating when then are hurt or in need, etc, etc, etc.
On the other sides there are A LOT of things he has done too: Using resources (money) to control or manipulate your mate, treating your mate's things with disrespect, throwing things, claiming the truth (denying your mates truth), etc, etc, etc.
I did see a few things on there that pertain to me on the sheets and I have taken notice. I did show up uninvited the other day (but expected he would not be home as usual and will call for now on) and I suppose he sees ME in the accusations part (told him I knew about his spending nights at a single females house that he calls a friend and nothing happened, how am I supposed to believe that).
I'm wondering why he wanted to make sure I saw him reading that paper and rustled it around and when I didn't pay much attention because I was talking to my son and his friend he gave me the silent treatment (HELLO - listed in the paper as a way to reject). If he wants to say what he's thinking why not just say it. From the past my guess is that he wants me to read it and see WHAT I'VE DONE WRONG and he probably thinks none of it pertains to him when most of it does. I know that he has accused me of "walking away" from the marriage like the paper says a way to reject is to give up without trying and saying to yourself "What's the use, they'll never change." He**, I tried for 18 years and he didn't put any effort in and said I was nuts and didn't need counseling (went to al-anon and counselor anyway) and that our marriage would be fine if I'd just do as he said. Oh, boy. And the little dittie about not listening to your mate when they are in need (I listened to him every night complain about how unfair his job is and people don't care about him before his would pass out in the chair from to much drinking - but it was never enough, it never is with an A). But I don't really think at this point that he has told the counselor about his drinking and cheating (as one of you said had happened to you). There is nothing that pertains to alcoholism or addiction here in this handout, if she knew about that problem it would have been addressed first, it just listed ways to not mistreat your mate -- and of course he's an active alcoholic and he is NOT going to get anything that he has a problem with at this point because he is still drinking and seeing the OW.
He said that the counselor did not want to see us together for marriage counseling as he has a rapport with her. But now I'm wondering. Could it be that HE does not want HER to know "his whole truth" and thus blow his whole "my wife doesn't understand me" garbage. When I was given handouts or books to read by my former counselor I read them as if they pertained to ME and the problems I had, but he seems to be reading everything he's given and looking for what I did wrong. I see no hope there whatsoever. I don't think he will get anything out of counseling and I know that he will stop as soon as she even hints that HE NEEDS TO CHANGE. Now I'm wondering if I should go to marriage counseling but INSIST that we see her. Maybe that is to co-dependent though as I will be butting into his counseling sessions by bringing up the truth. Interesting thing. When I went to counseling my counselor asked to see my husband after about a month to see if she could help him, but he refused. I wonder if his counselor wants to see me but he told her I don't want too. If that normal procedure? I wonder.
On the other sides there are A LOT of things he has done too: Using resources (money) to control or manipulate your mate, treating your mate's things with disrespect, throwing things, claiming the truth (denying your mates truth), etc, etc, etc.
I did see a few things on there that pertain to me on the sheets and I have taken notice. I did show up uninvited the other day (but expected he would not be home as usual and will call for now on) and I suppose he sees ME in the accusations part (told him I knew about his spending nights at a single females house that he calls a friend and nothing happened, how am I supposed to believe that).
I'm wondering why he wanted to make sure I saw him reading that paper and rustled it around and when I didn't pay much attention because I was talking to my son and his friend he gave me the silent treatment (HELLO - listed in the paper as a way to reject). If he wants to say what he's thinking why not just say it. From the past my guess is that he wants me to read it and see WHAT I'VE DONE WRONG and he probably thinks none of it pertains to him when most of it does. I know that he has accused me of "walking away" from the marriage like the paper says a way to reject is to give up without trying and saying to yourself "What's the use, they'll never change." He**, I tried for 18 years and he didn't put any effort in and said I was nuts and didn't need counseling (went to al-anon and counselor anyway) and that our marriage would be fine if I'd just do as he said. Oh, boy. And the little dittie about not listening to your mate when they are in need (I listened to him every night complain about how unfair his job is and people don't care about him before his would pass out in the chair from to much drinking - but it was never enough, it never is with an A). But I don't really think at this point that he has told the counselor about his drinking and cheating (as one of you said had happened to you). There is nothing that pertains to alcoholism or addiction here in this handout, if she knew about that problem it would have been addressed first, it just listed ways to not mistreat your mate -- and of course he's an active alcoholic and he is NOT going to get anything that he has a problem with at this point because he is still drinking and seeing the OW.
He said that the counselor did not want to see us together for marriage counseling as he has a rapport with her. But now I'm wondering. Could it be that HE does not want HER to know "his whole truth" and thus blow his whole "my wife doesn't understand me" garbage. When I was given handouts or books to read by my former counselor I read them as if they pertained to ME and the problems I had, but he seems to be reading everything he's given and looking for what I did wrong. I see no hope there whatsoever. I don't think he will get anything out of counseling and I know that he will stop as soon as she even hints that HE NEEDS TO CHANGE. Now I'm wondering if I should go to marriage counseling but INSIST that we see her. Maybe that is to co-dependent though as I will be butting into his counseling sessions by bringing up the truth. Interesting thing. When I went to counseling my counselor asked to see my husband after about a month to see if she could help him, but he refused. I wonder if his counselor wants to see me but he told her I don't want too. If that normal procedure? I wonder.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 341
Just made an appointment with a counselor that specializes in co-dependency issues. It's my old counseling center but this time I asked for someone that specialized in that area and saw a few people on their website that were good canidates. I am also going to al-anon (love my new group), but still strongly feel that I need a one on one with a professional counselor to help resolve some of my present issues that I'm dealing with in my own mind. I am having a hard time getting over the OW issue especially and cry quite often when I think about it. That hurts so bad, and he still denies it but still sees her. I also am having a tough time dealing with how my STXAH starting yelling at me over the summer (and threw things) and throwing tantrums. I'm glad I left, but I am so devistated by the whole turn of events and need help dealing with the divorce that will be coming soon. I am very angry and bitter and sad all at the same time. I'm determined to put my life back together (doesn't include him). If he wants to lie to his counselor that is HIS business, I'm telling the truth to mine (always have) and show her my warts and all. How the he** would you get anything out of counseling if you don't tell the truth?
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
((((Blondie)))) I feel your pain and frustrations coming through your posts. I also notice how much your mind is focused on him right now and trying to understand his actions and behaviour, I feel this could be causing you much of the pain you feel.
I know that until I truely focused my thoughts and my recovery on me, until I cut that mental tie to him, I too was stuck in that pain.
I like how black and white TC explains it, that she and her AH are at a cross road etc. I know it is a tough one though.
I hope you find all the support you need with a new counsellor and I am glad you are finding so much support from your Alanon group.
Love to you
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I know that until I truely focused my thoughts and my recovery on me, until I cut that mental tie to him, I too was stuck in that pain.
I like how black and white TC explains it, that she and her AH are at a cross road etc. I know it is a tough one though.
I hope you find all the support you need with a new counsellor and I am glad you are finding so much support from your Alanon group.
Love to you
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 341
I know that I'm on the right track now. It just hurts so bad and I am always so focused on him still, I need to stop. I guess I'm just trying to understand why, but I have to accept the fact that I'll never know and that it wasn't my fault. I think it will still take a while in al-anon and counseling for me to get it.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Blondie: I think your on the right track. Asking questions and learning that we can really only change (and healthily) focus on ourselves is a one day at a time kind of thing. I find that I'll be going along fine then all of a sudden I'm doing codie things again. Then I put myself on the right track again.
I did did the marriage counseling; only 3 times before I quite. My AH wouldn't talk about alcohol or any real problems. Just things like that I didn't spend enough time with him. The therapist suggested "date nights". You can't spend time with someone who doesn't want to go our because they are in the basement getting drunk! I said "what's the point"... I now see someone only for me.
Good luck... it really does get "easier" sort of... I think you get stronger and know what you want and you recover.
I did did the marriage counseling; only 3 times before I quite. My AH wouldn't talk about alcohol or any real problems. Just things like that I didn't spend enough time with him. The therapist suggested "date nights". You can't spend time with someone who doesn't want to go our because they are in the basement getting drunk! I said "what's the point"... I now see someone only for me.
Good luck... it really does get "easier" sort of... I think you get stronger and know what you want and you recover.
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