ItsmeAlice

So I started reading Codependent No More and have been blown away by the assessment of codependency and where it can come from.

From my reading in the book and here on the forum I have met the conclusion that my life as a codie began in my formative years.

The more I learn the more I understand how deep into codependency my own mother is. (My father is not an A but I now understand that a codie doesn't need one specifically to thrive).

A question I was exploring this morning was "What came first, the codie or the A?" Given my mother as an example, I'm inclined to say the codie.

I want to believe that both traits exist independently of each other and that they probably would continue to exist whether brought together or not.

Before I met my ABF, I had a very rocky relationship with my immediate family. I branched out on my own and began setting boundaries and detaching from the situations that I felt were unhealthy for me. What I thought was finally asserting my independence and making myself happy was actually a big step in recovery as a codependent. I wish it had stuck.

I understand now that I replaced my problems with my family with problems with my ABF.

What breaks my heart is the thought that my ABF, who did not seem to be struggling with an active drinking problem when we met, might have grown in his alcoholism because of my codependency.

I am working to accept that my codependence contributed to his alcoholism and enabled his addict behaviors. I feel I should accept that I made what could have been controllable for him worse.

So here is how the ping-pong match is playing out in my thinking. On one side we have the codependent player who struggled with a codependent mother, disenchanted father, and a narcissistic older "golden child" brother. On the other side we have an alcholic middle child of an alcoholic and unambitious father and manic/depressive alcoholic mother with a younger manic matyr sister and an older depressive socially illequipped brother.

Clearly a match made somewhere south of heaven. It's a design made only for madness.

I can argue that he was destined to be an alcoholic, and I was destined to find someone to fulfill my codie needs, but why? Why, when I was, just prior to meeting him, making such good decisions in my life? How can I argue that I didn't create the problem when it seems for an alcoholic to truly flourish, they need a codie in their lives. Would he have fallen sooner into alcoholism had I not been there, or would he have been better off without me?

I have a tendency to find circular logic to entrench myself in, and this seems right in line with that.

I'm looking for help in thinking this through.

Alice

GiveLove

True that.

Please, alice, try to keep the focus on you. Notice what you've written about above: reading the book has made you examine others, like your mom, your ABF, with the implication of what could/should I have done differently FOR HIM.... Like anvilhead points out, you can't make someone become an active alcoholic - they have free choice and make their own decisions. I came through a horrible life and somehow managed not to become an alcoholic. Don't think you're so powerful that you-being-yourself was enough to drive someone to drink. You're not.

Alcoholism is the intersection of history and biology. You did not create his sordid family history, and you did not create his brain's cellular structure that made him prone to turn to addiction rather than doing the hard work of sorting things out.

You exist as a person outside of any formulas for a "match made in heaven."

Just a gentle reminder that this time of healing is about You The Person, not You The Half-a-Couple (which is where your codie brain seems to be wanting to drag you) The couldas, wouldas and shouldas are only going to clutter the place and make you trip.

You start now, not ten or twenty or thirty years ago, right now: what will I do differently FOR ME, starting right here, as soon as I walk away from this computer. What one small starting point can I make before the week is out that will put me back on the path of being proud of myself?

:ghug3

freya

Well, how can you argue that he didn't create the problem when it seems that, for a codependent to truly flourish, they need an alcoholic in their lives?????

I mean, really, IF it worked at all, it would work both ways here -- the fact that you are seeing it from only the one side is a pretty clear sign that you still are coming at the whole situation from a control mindset....still trying to find a way to have the power and the responsibility.

Well, you don't...........no power, no control, no responsibility for his alcoholism. None. Nada.

And he has just as much for your codependency.

No one created the problem -- you each have your own individual issues and when you come together without either of you having any real understanding of what those issues are or any experience in doing the work necessary to recover from them, "the problem" is just what happens. Like fire to gasoline -- explosion happens. It's not the fault of the gasloine or of the fire. It's just the way it is.

(...and, BTW, "the problem" is not his alcoholism, either, the problem is the deep-rooted dysfunction that both of you have somehow learned in your lives, that draws you together, and that, once you're together, vampirizes your healthy selves to feed itself.)

Personally, I think understanding how alcoholism/addiction and codependency/enabling works and where all of these things come from and why is helpful and interesting....but it cannot, in and of itself, come anywhere near to solving these problems, because these problems are rooted in deep, core personal woundings and they are very, very resistent to reason. Much more fundamental healing strategies are going to be needed......

......to start with, simple (not easy, but simple) acceptance: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol (or, the alcoholic, if you prefer) -- that our lives had become unmanageable.

You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it......So you might as well focus on taking care of yourself in the face of it, because any other focus is just bringing more fire to the gasoline.

freya

justanothrdrunk

Let's turn that around. I'll play the alcoholic partner (now THERE's a stretch).

"I never would have become an alcoholic if it weren't for my partner."

Solid logic?

ItsmeAlice

This is exhausting!!

I find this process like the hardware store commercial where the homeowner installs a lightswitch and proudly steps back and turns on the light to bask in the accomplishment only to now notice a crack in the ceiling that needs fixing, the leaking faucet that needs to be replaced, and the cabinet door that's on it's last hinge.

I have an A-Ha moment, which should help me understand myself and help me accept my loss of power only I end up struggling with myself over how much blame I can take on.

Of course after tossing this back and forth in my head today, I started to wonder what was the point in trying to leave my current situation when is seems apparent that I will land in one just like it even if I try to do otherwise.

It's been a long day.

newdawnnewday

I so agree with GiveLove:

>>>>>You start now, not ten or twenty or thirty years ago, right now: what will I do differently FOR ME<<<<<<<

It's important to look at our history and see how we got where we are today, but the key in looking back and analyzing is to help us make changes for the future. I don't believe you can second guess the past... I believe it's part of God's plan.

I posted earlier about another Melody Beattie book--Playing it by heart--which I would so strongly suggest reading. It may give you more of the answers you are looking for and help you keep looking ahead...

Ago

For me, I just learned I always picked my "mirror"

When I was a "budding" alcoholic, I picked "budding" codependents

As I got sicker, I picked sicker partners

When I was a "full blown" alcoholic, I ended up in relationships with "full blown" codependents

As I got well, So did my choices

My "stuff" my choices

So the focus goes back on me, and how to fix "my stuff"

I had an utter inability to have any sort of grasp on what happened with me and my life and I read books until I was blue in the face until I started with therapy and working the 12 steps.

My "normal" wasn't...normal, and it's like I couldn't see the Forest for the trees, the "trees" had always been there, all of my life, all mu childhood, they appeared "normal".

It took somebody else to point out my childhood was not in fact normal, to point out my recurring patterns both in my life, and where I learned them.

My partner has been a good barometer in my life, if I pick, or am with an unhealthy partner, it means there is work to be done on me.

Healthy people pick healthy partners, this stuff just doesn't occur in a vacuum

That was just the beginning of my journey when I realized that on a gut level.

Good for you for picking up the book, it's crazy when you read a book and you're like OMG these people been watching me!!!!!

MissFixit

Last month I had the same revelation in therapy as Ago mentioned. My therapist asked about my childhood too. I have a mother with mental issues, so my "normal" is not really normal. If I was able to endure that I could endure anything. The therapist said that the experiences of my youth were not good barometers to use for what is healthy in an adult relationship i.e. you should not have to endure or take care of someone by sacrificing yourself completely.

freya

This, for me, is one of those million dollar questions --- because, god knows, there is no way I would ever choose to be with someone to whom I wasn't attracted just because that person was (relatively) healthy --- and for me I found the answer in the work of Harville Hendricks (Getting the Love You Want and Keeping the Love You Find). Basically, his "thesis" is that, yes, we are drawn to people whose "issues" and "woundings" compliment and "bring out" our own -- and that is, in fact, a good thing and life's/nature's/God's way of encouraging our healing, because if we can manage to get into a relationship with one of those people in which we are both committed to actively working on those issues and woundings, then it is in the context of such a relationship that the best, most effective healing will happen for both partners.

That makes a lot of sense to me...and indeed, it does seem to be the case in my own relationship with my A, who is currently also in recovery.....So, that's the trick: finding a "compliment" who will be a compliment not only in terms of "the problem" but also in terms of "the solution."

freya

freya

This really caught my attention -- because I used to believe/assume this very strongly, but over the last year or so, I've found that what really, really seems to be important to me is not so much someone's actual "level" of healthiness as his/her commitment to his/her own recovery/growth/spiritual journey....I mean, I can't say that one is absolutely more important to me than the other, but, in general, I do seem to be drawn to and to weigh more heavily people's commitment to recovery rather than their actual progress thus far...and I've actually gotten myself into a couple very challenging (in a positive way) relationships because of this...relationships where I've really had to abandon any pretense of "knowing what I'm doing" and just trust in following where I'm being lead by HP....and, so far, it's been good -- awkward and sometimes uncomfortable for me -- but very good...

....I guess it's kinda like my favorite J. S. Mill quotation: The false opinion of one man who thinks is worth more than all the true opinions of those who hold them only because they will not suffer themselves to think.

freya

TakingCharge999

"Healthy people pick healthy partners, this stuff just doesn't occur in a vacuum"
Ouch.

SO TRUE!!

LaTeeDa

Freya, you read my mind. I was going to post a recommendation to read Harville Hendrix after Codependent No More. It was the very first book my therapist suggested to me. He rocks!

L