I finally admit I can't do this...
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
I finally admit I can't do this...
Hi.. new member here.. feeing a little confused and emotionally battered..
I've been in a relationship with my ABF for nearly three years and moved in with him after a year. He is a recovering alcoholic and has been sober for two years: regularly attending AA. Before that he was on and off the wagon.
When I met him he wasn't drinking but during the initial stages of our relationship he lapsed two or three times. He got himself back in AA, back onto the 12 steps and got himself a sponsor. He recently got his 2nd chip and so has been dry for two years.
I should be happy right? Or at least grateful?
I attended my first Al-anon meeting last night. I'm not sure why: it might be because I know something isn't right but I'm not sure what. I don't know whether how he is is just him or whether it is alcoholic behaviours. I suppose I wanted to see if what is happening in my relationship is normal. But the underlying reason why I went is because I can't do this on my own anymore.
Last night I heard the term 'dry drunk' for the first time. I dont know if it applies here: I'm not even sure I totally understand what it means. Last night showed me that whilst I thought I understood I am actually naive.
In my relationship with him I have heard the line 'I don't know what I want' and 'I don't want to work on things' along with 'I'm better on my own', 'I cant do relationships', 'I love you', 'I dont love you' etc. I have watched as he emotionally detached, re-attached, detached again. Now we are in relationship limbo and have been for a year. We are like housemates. I dont know what is going on in his head but I feel scared of the emotional harm he can cause and I suppose I have detached too. I know why I have.. protection.
Last summer my OH attended some relationship counselling alone to see if that would help with some of his issues. I say attended but he just showed up for a few sessions and then decided it was worthless.
We dont talk about this. It is like the elephant in the corner of the room.
If Im honest, I feel like he is dry but the unproductive attitudes and behaviour patterns are still there and in fact worse now. I also feel that whilst he is in the program, attends regularly and is almost evangelical about his AA membership he isnt doing recovery. Like simply being dry is all.
Im not saying he isnt recovering. Im not saying that I am not proud of where he is and how much he has achieved. But I feel that he is going through the motions. His step one involved writing a brief life story for his sponsor. It took him a year and a half. I know it must be difficult to do but he would use any other distraction to stop doing it. He goes to meetings but Im not sure whether that he is just going through the motions.
He turns to drink during emotional crisis. And what I have seen of that is that he has turned to drink when he and I have had problems and our relationship was on the rocks. He has said he wont do that again and I suppose I believe him as he seems to have replaced feeling and getting drunk when he cant cope with total numbness.
I'm not happy... I'm not grateful..
I've been in a relationship with my ABF for nearly three years and moved in with him after a year. He is a recovering alcoholic and has been sober for two years: regularly attending AA. Before that he was on and off the wagon.
When I met him he wasn't drinking but during the initial stages of our relationship he lapsed two or three times. He got himself back in AA, back onto the 12 steps and got himself a sponsor. He recently got his 2nd chip and so has been dry for two years.
I should be happy right? Or at least grateful?
I attended my first Al-anon meeting last night. I'm not sure why: it might be because I know something isn't right but I'm not sure what. I don't know whether how he is is just him or whether it is alcoholic behaviours. I suppose I wanted to see if what is happening in my relationship is normal. But the underlying reason why I went is because I can't do this on my own anymore.
Last night I heard the term 'dry drunk' for the first time. I dont know if it applies here: I'm not even sure I totally understand what it means. Last night showed me that whilst I thought I understood I am actually naive.
In my relationship with him I have heard the line 'I don't know what I want' and 'I don't want to work on things' along with 'I'm better on my own', 'I cant do relationships', 'I love you', 'I dont love you' etc. I have watched as he emotionally detached, re-attached, detached again. Now we are in relationship limbo and have been for a year. We are like housemates. I dont know what is going on in his head but I feel scared of the emotional harm he can cause and I suppose I have detached too. I know why I have.. protection.
Last summer my OH attended some relationship counselling alone to see if that would help with some of his issues. I say attended but he just showed up for a few sessions and then decided it was worthless.
We dont talk about this. It is like the elephant in the corner of the room.
If Im honest, I feel like he is dry but the unproductive attitudes and behaviour patterns are still there and in fact worse now. I also feel that whilst he is in the program, attends regularly and is almost evangelical about his AA membership he isnt doing recovery. Like simply being dry is all.
Im not saying he isnt recovering. Im not saying that I am not proud of where he is and how much he has achieved. But I feel that he is going through the motions. His step one involved writing a brief life story for his sponsor. It took him a year and a half. I know it must be difficult to do but he would use any other distraction to stop doing it. He goes to meetings but Im not sure whether that he is just going through the motions.
He turns to drink during emotional crisis. And what I have seen of that is that he has turned to drink when he and I have had problems and our relationship was on the rocks. He has said he wont do that again and I suppose I believe him as he seems to have replaced feeling and getting drunk when he cant cope with total numbness.
I'm not happy... I'm not grateful..
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Having a relationship with a sober alcoholic is as difficult in it's own way as having a relationship with a practicing alcoholic.
It takes years before many of the "core" changes really begin to take place, and in the meantime, the alcoholic is like a ping pong ball in a tornado, come closer, get away, I love you, I hate you, go away, come back, I hate you, wait, I love you I didn't mean it etc ad nauseum.
There is a "suggestion" around the rooms about "no new relationships" for a year, it's been my experience on both sides of the ball that this is more important to the person HAVING the relationship with the alcoholic, then the alcoholic, if he's actually "recovering" he's changing so much, so fast, he's not the same person he was thirty days ago every thirty days, and if he's NOT "recovering" he's a bigger pain in the a$$ then he ever was drinking, I just wish some of these people would go have a drink they are so asinine.
In my experience, Male alcoholics settle down for a few years after "year two" but then "go through it" quite badly in "year five", there are definate cycles in recovery, they aren't "hard and fast" "rules" but they are common enough to be pretty noticeable.
OK, anyway, there is the information about dealing with a "sober" alcoholic. It helps for me to know what I am dealing with.
Now, about you:
Alanon meetings are GOOD. Good for you for going.
What are you getting from this relationship?
Are you happy?
What steps can you take for yourself to make you happy? (alanon is a GREAT start)
Can you accept him for who and what he is?
Can you learn to "not attach" to his constant "roller coaster" emotional life?
Anyhow, attending Alanon is a terrific start, that coupled with some therapy for yourself will work wonders, for me, it helped me learn about where I end and they begin (boundaries) and the tools I need to learn to take care of myself.
I mean it's great if/when the alcoholic in our life gets sober, but sobriety alone is not enough for me to stay with someone, sometimes when we spend so much time saying to ourself, "If only this then that", like, "If only he would only get sober, we'd be OK" then "he" gets sober, and we're still unhappy.
This means two things to me:
Either:
I climbed up the ladder to find out it was propped against the wrong wall (The truth is I really don't belong in a relationship with this person drunk or sober)
or
It's my "grasping mind" such as they talk about in Buddhism, some of the saddest, most disappointing days in my entire life is when my dreams came true. Because I KNEW if only my dream would come true, I'd be OK, then when it did, and the way I felt didn't change, I learned that "my problem" was something different, that "my problem" had to do with me, that no amount of "if only this then that" would fix it, that I had to find solution elsewhere, that I find solution in the here and now, which I did by working the twelve steps.
Either way, the problem was mine, it was then helpful to me to find out what the actual "problem" was, was I hoping this person would "complete me'? was I hoping this person would "fix me"? How could I become whole enough to find out what was REALLY going on with me, and stop listening to "the stories" my mind was telling me, and find out "the truth, my truth" about the situation.
Good Luck, and know you are not alone, keep going to meetings and reaching out, the help is there if you ask for it.
It takes years before many of the "core" changes really begin to take place, and in the meantime, the alcoholic is like a ping pong ball in a tornado, come closer, get away, I love you, I hate you, go away, come back, I hate you, wait, I love you I didn't mean it etc ad nauseum.
There is a "suggestion" around the rooms about "no new relationships" for a year, it's been my experience on both sides of the ball that this is more important to the person HAVING the relationship with the alcoholic, then the alcoholic, if he's actually "recovering" he's changing so much, so fast, he's not the same person he was thirty days ago every thirty days, and if he's NOT "recovering" he's a bigger pain in the a$$ then he ever was drinking, I just wish some of these people would go have a drink they are so asinine.
In my experience, Male alcoholics settle down for a few years after "year two" but then "go through it" quite badly in "year five", there are definate cycles in recovery, they aren't "hard and fast" "rules" but they are common enough to be pretty noticeable.
OK, anyway, there is the information about dealing with a "sober" alcoholic. It helps for me to know what I am dealing with.
Now, about you:
Alanon meetings are GOOD. Good for you for going.
What are you getting from this relationship?
Are you happy?
What steps can you take for yourself to make you happy? (alanon is a GREAT start)
Can you accept him for who and what he is?
Can you learn to "not attach" to his constant "roller coaster" emotional life?
Anyhow, attending Alanon is a terrific start, that coupled with some therapy for yourself will work wonders, for me, it helped me learn about where I end and they begin (boundaries) and the tools I need to learn to take care of myself.
I mean it's great if/when the alcoholic in our life gets sober, but sobriety alone is not enough for me to stay with someone, sometimes when we spend so much time saying to ourself, "If only this then that", like, "If only he would only get sober, we'd be OK" then "he" gets sober, and we're still unhappy.
This means two things to me:
Either:
I climbed up the ladder to find out it was propped against the wrong wall (The truth is I really don't belong in a relationship with this person drunk or sober)
or
It's my "grasping mind" such as they talk about in Buddhism, some of the saddest, most disappointing days in my entire life is when my dreams came true. Because I KNEW if only my dream would come true, I'd be OK, then when it did, and the way I felt didn't change, I learned that "my problem" was something different, that "my problem" had to do with me, that no amount of "if only this then that" would fix it, that I had to find solution elsewhere, that I find solution in the here and now, which I did by working the twelve steps.
Either way, the problem was mine, it was then helpful to me to find out what the actual "problem" was, was I hoping this person would "complete me'? was I hoping this person would "fix me"? How could I become whole enough to find out what was REALLY going on with me, and stop listening to "the stories" my mind was telling me, and find out "the truth, my truth" about the situation.
Good Luck, and know you are not alone, keep going to meetings and reaching out, the help is there if you ask for it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
Thank you for your reply. I didn't think anyone would.
The same moodiness and everything else that were around when I saw him drunk are still there when he doesn’t drink. I have supported him to the best of my ability. I put little (or any) demands on him for anything. I am and continue to be the grounded one in our relationship. Or at least I was but slowly I feel like I’ve lost that. I feel a heaviness that is also a very empty feeling.
I am not sure about detachment. It was easier when we didn’t live together. I just stopped taking his calls and his BS and got on with me. Eventually he would calm down and the cracker factory in his head would stop and we would just be together. It was always push me/pull me and continues to be. It’s just when he pushes now, I shut down and work around him but I’m still there in proximity and that seems enough for him not to try and work it out.
What am I getting from this relationship? I’ve asked myself that recently and can only come up with not a lot apart from some semblance of companionship.
Am I happy? No.
What will make me happy? Making me happy, I have realised, is getting ME back and if the fates allow having that me in a happy, loving relationship. The woman who would ignore these behaviours and carry on smiling, not be churned up inside. The woman who was smiling inside instead of crying, feeling inadequate and wrong.
Can I accept him for who and what he is? I have truly tried to accept him for who and what he is. Maybe I haven’t succeeded, I don’t know. The problem feels like he doesn’t accept me for who and what I am.
I’m beginning to wonder if the root of the problem is not his drinking per se. I have done a little reading and I think maybe the adage ‘You can take the rum out of a fruitcake but it’s still a fruitcake’ applies. He hasn’t addressed why he drinks and/or any underlying issues.
Al-Anon was a bit of a relief to be honest. I didn’t realise until recently just how much being with this person has invaded ‘me’. I just felt better doing something positive for me. I walked home from the meeting feeling calmer and a little more positive.
I do have some sort of a "vision" of what I want out of my life, and since I am the only one that is responsible for the quality of my life I am considering leaving once and for all and end our relationship. Maybe my ladder is propped on the wrong wall. That is the problem… I don’t know. I just know I'm so tired and now so full of tears.
The same moodiness and everything else that were around when I saw him drunk are still there when he doesn’t drink. I have supported him to the best of my ability. I put little (or any) demands on him for anything. I am and continue to be the grounded one in our relationship. Or at least I was but slowly I feel like I’ve lost that. I feel a heaviness that is also a very empty feeling.
I am not sure about detachment. It was easier when we didn’t live together. I just stopped taking his calls and his BS and got on with me. Eventually he would calm down and the cracker factory in his head would stop and we would just be together. It was always push me/pull me and continues to be. It’s just when he pushes now, I shut down and work around him but I’m still there in proximity and that seems enough for him not to try and work it out.
What am I getting from this relationship? I’ve asked myself that recently and can only come up with not a lot apart from some semblance of companionship.
Am I happy? No.
What will make me happy? Making me happy, I have realised, is getting ME back and if the fates allow having that me in a happy, loving relationship. The woman who would ignore these behaviours and carry on smiling, not be churned up inside. The woman who was smiling inside instead of crying, feeling inadequate and wrong.
Can I accept him for who and what he is? I have truly tried to accept him for who and what he is. Maybe I haven’t succeeded, I don’t know. The problem feels like he doesn’t accept me for who and what I am.
I’m beginning to wonder if the root of the problem is not his drinking per se. I have done a little reading and I think maybe the adage ‘You can take the rum out of a fruitcake but it’s still a fruitcake’ applies. He hasn’t addressed why he drinks and/or any underlying issues.
Al-Anon was a bit of a relief to be honest. I didn’t realise until recently just how much being with this person has invaded ‘me’. I just felt better doing something positive for me. I walked home from the meeting feeling calmer and a little more positive.
I do have some sort of a "vision" of what I want out of my life, and since I am the only one that is responsible for the quality of my life I am considering leaving once and for all and end our relationship. Maybe my ladder is propped on the wrong wall. That is the problem… I don’t know. I just know I'm so tired and now so full of tears.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
WELCOME to SR. You have found a great place with lots of really good Experience, Strength and Hope (ES&H) from others who have been or are where you are now.
I'm sorry, but I M H O he is JUST DRY. He certainly isn't 'in' any program. Maybe goes in hopes of getting 'it' by osmosis, lol.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. His ACTIONS are telling you he is not working on recovery. Watch the ACTIONS.
A relationship is about being at least 50/50. I'm sorry but this doesn't sound like a 'relationship' to me.
Please go to some more AlAnon meetings for YOU. Learn how to set BOUNDARIES. I can guarantee he won't like it, but this is not about him this is about YOU. Even, should you decide to leave him, AlAnon is an excellent source to learn about one's self, to learn what we do and do not find acceptable, and how to stand by our boundaries.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care so much.
Love and hugs,
If Im honest, I feel like he is dry but the unproductive attitudes and behaviour patterns are still there and in fact worse now. I also feel that whilst he is in the program, attends regularly and is almost evangelical about his AA membership he isnt doing recovery. Like simply being dry is all.
The same moodiness and everything else that were around when I saw him drunk are still there when he doesn’t drink.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. His ACTIONS are telling you he is not working on recovery. Watch the ACTIONS.
I put little (or any) demands on him for anything. I am and continue to be the grounded one in our relationship. Or at least I was but slowly I feel like I’ve lost that. I feel a heaviness that is also a very empty feeling.
Please go to some more AlAnon meetings for YOU. Learn how to set BOUNDARIES. I can guarantee he won't like it, but this is not about him this is about YOU. Even, should you decide to leave him, AlAnon is an excellent source to learn about one's self, to learn what we do and do not find acceptable, and how to stand by our boundaries.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care so much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
tallulah,
Congrats to you -- though I know it can't feel good -- for facing these incredibly tough thoughts.
In the transitional places in my life, the places where I am not sure what I should do next, I feel very soft and tearful. It is a difficult place to be, standing on that balance point between accepting reality and living in denial of What Is.
I don't know that we can help you decide what you should do or not do (and you're not asking that, I realize). But a good benchmark might be this: Look at him today, how he is today and here and now. Imagine then living for the next few decades of your life in this exact situation, how it is, not how it should be.
Is that okay with you? Is that a good use of your time on this planet? Or would a different relationship free the things inside you that will help you get to the end of your life and say, "Yep. I did it right, and I'm glad I came."
I don't know why this keeps popping into my mind, but I keep feeling like you might benefit from reading parts of Kahlil Gibran's book The Prophet right now, as you work through this time (like this part): The Prophet
For some reason, that always centers me and helps lessen my pain. Not sure if it will be the same for you, but at the very least it's some very lovely prose.
Wishing you the absolute best, and the strength to do what's right for you
Congrats to you -- though I know it can't feel good -- for facing these incredibly tough thoughts.
In the transitional places in my life, the places where I am not sure what I should do next, I feel very soft and tearful. It is a difficult place to be, standing on that balance point between accepting reality and living in denial of What Is.
I don't know that we can help you decide what you should do or not do (and you're not asking that, I realize). But a good benchmark might be this: Look at him today, how he is today and here and now. Imagine then living for the next few decades of your life in this exact situation, how it is, not how it should be.
Is that okay with you? Is that a good use of your time on this planet? Or would a different relationship free the things inside you that will help you get to the end of your life and say, "Yep. I did it right, and I'm glad I came."
I don't know why this keeps popping into my mind, but I keep feeling like you might benefit from reading parts of Kahlil Gibran's book The Prophet right now, as you work through this time (like this part): The Prophet
For some reason, that always centers me and helps lessen my pain. Not sure if it will be the same for you, but at the very least it's some very lovely prose.
Wishing you the absolute best, and the strength to do what's right for you
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
Thank you for your reply Laurie.. x And also for yours GiveLove.. x They came just at the right time.
I know what you mean about being just dry and not being ‘in’ any program. To be honest, I’m not sure how his meetings are going or what he is getting out of them. He goes three times a week. For the last two years he has had a ‘commitment’ at one of those meetings and has done a chair whenever asked. He has a sponsor. On paper he is doing a lot. But then he has before and still relapsed (this was before I met him).
When he comes back from a meeting, I ask him how his meeting went and I am met with ‘ok’. Not a lot else really but then I don’t expect him to share the details with me. I do know that it took him around a year and a half to complete his step one and that he procrastinated over what his sponsor asked him to provide. I know it is difficult and I have no position from which to cast judgement, but it seemed he dragged his feet to me. Now, I wonder how much going to meetings are like before: he admitted that previously they were almost a social gathering and that he never really ‘did’ AA. I suppose what I can get from all that is I just don’t know.
I had typed the first two paragraphs of this reply in tears and he asked me what is wrong so I closed up my laptop and just poured at least one year of pain out. His response? Well essentially.. He loves me but he doesn’t think he is right for me or I am right for him. He thinks he keeps getting in relationships with the wrong people. He knows how we are isn’t right and he sees me more as a housemate. I suppose at least he’s finally said it out loud.
I’ve heard all this before though. We’ve been here before several times. One thing he did say which struck me is that it is a sign of madness if people keep repeating the same patterns expecting a different outcome. He finished with he thought we shouldn’t continue the relationship.
I agreed. I told him that I have been to Al-anon (to which he said, ‘I told you to go there 2 years ago’ !!!) and I recounted a part of GiveLove’s post about looking at him (and us) now and imagining then living for the next few decades of my life in this exact situation, how it is, not how it should be. Getting to the end of my life and being able to say ‘I’m glad I came’.
And then it and he got sad and he started to pull me toward him again. Offering cuddles, looking at me with cheerless eyes, crying and saying he missed me. He asked what are our options what do I want to do. I told him that in all honesty I don’t know but what I do know is that I can’t carry on like we are. I hugged him but didn’t waiver. Then when I said we would need to talk about our shared stuff and how we were going to divide it and we’d need to set aside some time to talk about it he got snappy.
I’ve been here before. I recognise the pattern. He even got hurt when I said that when I leave I want no further contact (for MY recovery).
I’m not sure what is going on with him. He has said that all he needs is to go to AA, that he needs no further self-examination or help. I disagree. But that is not my problem. I need to be a little selfish now and look after me.
GiveLove.. thank you for the link. It was that that made me cry and started the whole conversation off.. I want my heart to stand in the sun.
I know what you mean about being just dry and not being ‘in’ any program. To be honest, I’m not sure how his meetings are going or what he is getting out of them. He goes three times a week. For the last two years he has had a ‘commitment’ at one of those meetings and has done a chair whenever asked. He has a sponsor. On paper he is doing a lot. But then he has before and still relapsed (this was before I met him).
When he comes back from a meeting, I ask him how his meeting went and I am met with ‘ok’. Not a lot else really but then I don’t expect him to share the details with me. I do know that it took him around a year and a half to complete his step one and that he procrastinated over what his sponsor asked him to provide. I know it is difficult and I have no position from which to cast judgement, but it seemed he dragged his feet to me. Now, I wonder how much going to meetings are like before: he admitted that previously they were almost a social gathering and that he never really ‘did’ AA. I suppose what I can get from all that is I just don’t know.
I had typed the first two paragraphs of this reply in tears and he asked me what is wrong so I closed up my laptop and just poured at least one year of pain out. His response? Well essentially.. He loves me but he doesn’t think he is right for me or I am right for him. He thinks he keeps getting in relationships with the wrong people. He knows how we are isn’t right and he sees me more as a housemate. I suppose at least he’s finally said it out loud.
I’ve heard all this before though. We’ve been here before several times. One thing he did say which struck me is that it is a sign of madness if people keep repeating the same patterns expecting a different outcome. He finished with he thought we shouldn’t continue the relationship.
I agreed. I told him that I have been to Al-anon (to which he said, ‘I told you to go there 2 years ago’ !!!) and I recounted a part of GiveLove’s post about looking at him (and us) now and imagining then living for the next few decades of my life in this exact situation, how it is, not how it should be. Getting to the end of my life and being able to say ‘I’m glad I came’.
And then it and he got sad and he started to pull me toward him again. Offering cuddles, looking at me with cheerless eyes, crying and saying he missed me. He asked what are our options what do I want to do. I told him that in all honesty I don’t know but what I do know is that I can’t carry on like we are. I hugged him but didn’t waiver. Then when I said we would need to talk about our shared stuff and how we were going to divide it and we’d need to set aside some time to talk about it he got snappy.
I’ve been here before. I recognise the pattern. He even got hurt when I said that when I leave I want no further contact (for MY recovery).
I’m not sure what is going on with him. He has said that all he needs is to go to AA, that he needs no further self-examination or help. I disagree. But that is not my problem. I need to be a little selfish now and look after me.
GiveLove.. thank you for the link. It was that that made me cry and started the whole conversation off.. I want my heart to stand in the sun.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
Tallulah, I know how you feel, I'm in a similar boat. My AH stopped drinking just over a month ago, and first week or 2 he went to 2/3 meetings per week, now it's down to 1. I don't think he has a sponsor yet. He bought a few books on being an adult child of an alcoholic but since we're in separate bedrooms I don't even know if he's reading them, or the AA big book (at our own house he'd read them in the living room - we moved in with my parents as we're relocating cities so he doesn't read any of that stuff in plain view). He's not really exhibiting dry drunk tendencies per se, but I haven't seen very much change in him either. He did say that the meetings 'seem' to help but he still has a hard time swallowing the HP stuff.
We also have felt like housemates, add onto that a 15 month old baby so this past year has been a great divide between us. I also wonder if I can see my life with him as anything better than what it is today. Best to you.
We also have felt like housemates, add onto that a 15 month old baby so this past year has been a great divide between us. I also wonder if I can see my life with him as anything better than what it is today. Best to you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
silkspin.. thank you for your reply.. I'm sorry to hear that..x
It is so hard when you are right next to someone but you can't get beyond the wall. It's like you are sitting right next to them but would need an airplane to get to them.
I'm not even sure what 'dry drunk' really means if I am honest. I'm new to this and trying to understand if I can. All I know is it hurts.
Best to you.
It is so hard when you are right next to someone but you can't get beyond the wall. It's like you are sitting right next to them but would need an airplane to get to them.
I'm not even sure what 'dry drunk' really means if I am honest. I'm new to this and trying to understand if I can. All I know is it hurts.
Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by tallulah 
silkspin.. thank you for your reply.. I'm sorry to hear that..x
It is so hard when you are right next to someone but you can't get beyond the wall. It's like you are sitting right next to them but would need an airplane to get to them.
I'm not even sure what 'dry drunk' really means if I am honest. I'm new to this and trying to understand if I can. All I know is it hurts.
Best to you.
It is so hard when you are right next to someone but you can't get beyond the wall. It's like you are sitting right next to them but would need an airplane to get to them.
I'm not even sure what 'dry drunk' really means if I am honest. I'm new to this and trying to understand if I can. All I know is it hurts.
Best to you.
IMO it gets tossed around too loosely and reveals more about the people who use it then it does about the person in question, we are all human, and whether in recovery or not, we are all doing the best we can, IMO it's the "N" word of recovery, especially in Alanon, because it implies this person is "less then" and not even trying, I feel anyone who is attempting recovery is worthy of my respect, whether they be Alcoholic or codependent.
That being said, I have gone through "dry drunk" periods and certainly slandered others with the label, I just think it's an easy way out once again to keep from looking at myself and a dirty derogatory thing to say about someone. If they are a "dry drunk" or a "practicing alcoholic" all of the sudden they are "in the wrong" and I not only don't have to look at "my part" I don't have a part, because they are automatically "wrong" and "bad" if they are a "dry drunk".
This doesn't mean I necessarily want to hang out with someone who is displaying those character defects, nor do they get a "get out jail free" card from me, it's just that I prefer not to use the term too loosely because in my opinion, it's judgmental and not helpful to anyone concerned.
P.S. It means someone who is "dry" at the moment, but not working a program of recovery.
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Originally Posted by Ago
This is just for me, but I try not to bandy the term "dry drunk" about too loosely for a few reasons, one, it means I am taking their inventory, judging them, and that puts me on equal footing with God, and Implies I know better then God, and Two: it was explained to me if I was actually "working my own program" I would be so busy trying to tackle my own character defects that I wouldn't even have time to look up and "take their inventory" and Judge them.
IMO it gets tossed around too loosely and reveals more about the people who use it then it does about the person in question, we are all human, and whether in recovery or not, we are all doing the best we can, IMO it's the "N" word of recovery, especially in Alanon, because it implies this person is "less then", i feel it's bigotry.
That being said, I have gone through "dry drunk" periods and certainly slandered others with the label, I just think it's an easy way out once again to keep from looking at oneself and a dirty derogatory thing to say about someone.
P.S. It means someone who is "dry" at the moment, but not working a program of recovery.
IMO it gets tossed around too loosely and reveals more about the people who use it then it does about the person in question, we are all human, and whether in recovery or not, we are all doing the best we can, IMO it's the "N" word of recovery, especially in Alanon, because it implies this person is "less then", i feel it's bigotry.
That being said, I have gone through "dry drunk" periods and certainly slandered others with the label, I just think it's an easy way out once again to keep from looking at oneself and a dirty derogatory thing to say about someone.
P.S. It means someone who is "dry" at the moment, but not working a program of recovery.
It was a term and an idea that was mooted yesterday in my first Al-anon meeting. It was brought up in the context of my ABF (or should that be AXBF) not drinking but displaying the same behaviours.
Again. Sorry..x
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I am absolutely no expert in alcoholism and have never heard the term dry drunk, but in reading your post, I can't help but wonder if your ABF has additional problems beyond alcoholism...I just don't know. But regardless, I think that you deserve so much more than to be told that you are loved and then that you are not loved. It's just not fair. Life should not have to be like that.
If you turn the serenity prayer around and ask the questions to yourself:
Can I accept these things I cannot change?
Do I have the courage to change the things I can?
Do I know the difference between what I can and cannot change?
Ultimately, I believe that answering these questions will guide you where you need to go...
In the words of my 5th grade teacher: You have so much to offer the world.
Please know that you are in my prayers.....
If you turn the serenity prayer around and ask the questions to yourself:
Can I accept these things I cannot change?
Do I have the courage to change the things I can?
Do I know the difference between what I can and cannot change?
Ultimately, I believe that answering these questions will guide you where you need to go...
In the words of my 5th grade teacher: You have so much to offer the world.
Please know that you are in my prayers.....
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Originally Posted by tallulah
Thank you for explaining Ago and please believe I meant no offence.
It was a term and an idea that was mooted yesterday in my first Al-anon meeting. It was brought up in the context of my ABF (or should that be AXBF) not drinking but displaying the same behaviours.
Again. Sorry..x
It was a term and an idea that was mooted yesterday in my first Al-anon meeting. It was brought up in the context of my ABF (or should that be AXBF) not drinking but displaying the same behaviours.
Again. Sorry..x
It's an important term to know and used correctly, it's important.
I just think it's "bandied about" too often as an easy judgment call.
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Originally Posted by newdawnnewday
I am absolutely no expert in alcoholism and have never heard the term dry drunk, but in reading your post, I can't help but wonder if your ABF has additional problems beyond alcoholism...I just don't know. But regardless, I think that you deserve so much more than to be told that you are loved and then that you are not loved. It's just not fair. Life should not have to be like that.
If you turn the serenity prayer around and ask the questions to yourself:
Can I accept these things I cannot change?
Do I have the courage to change the things I can?
Do I know the difference between what I can and cannot change?
Ultimately, I believe that answering these questions will guide you where you need to go...
In the words of my 5th grade teacher: You have so much to offer the world.
Please know that you are in my prayers.....
If you turn the serenity prayer around and ask the questions to yourself:
Can I accept these things I cannot change?
Do I have the courage to change the things I can?
Do I know the difference between what I can and cannot change?
Ultimately, I believe that answering these questions will guide you where you need to go...
In the words of my 5th grade teacher: You have so much to offer the world.
Please know that you are in my prayers.....
I'm not even sure how to refer to him anymore so maybe I'll just call him my A.
I'm not expert in alcoholism. I have never had a romantic relationship with an alcoholic and so I am in this blind and perhaps doing the 'research' I should have done before I committed myself to him.
I'm probably wrong but his drinking may have been a symptom of something else (?). I saw the quote 'you can take the rum out of the fruitcake and you still have a fruitcake' ... seems to sum it up.
It is my belief that there are other issues he maybe needs to work through. Last summer he attended a couple of counselling sessions but he didn't last long and kind of dismissed them as useless. He said this evening that he only needs to go to AA. There is nothing I can do about that. I can't change that and I accept it.
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Originally Posted by Ago
No No I'm not offended in the slightest, I apologize if I came off that way.
It's an important term to know and used correctly, it's important.
I just think it's "bandied about" too often as an easy judgment call.
It's an important term to know and used correctly, it's important.
I just think it's "bandied about" too often as an easy judgment call.
Thanks for letting me know.
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I am amazed by your bravery - sharing your pain, your love. I am honored by it as well. Also, the loving responses by this F&F community are life-giving, soul-repairing.
I am just emerging from a nearly identical emotional journey (This is a positive spin - because it's more like the ride to hell and then no gas to get back home). But I didn't have your courage to post. I was embarassed to admit that I "stayed" (ie slept with and suffered over )with my now XRAH during our 2 yr separation, through the mediation and divorce, believing his promises that we needed to divorce to get back together. Five days after the divorce, he told me it was over and that it wouldn't bother him if I was to be with another man. I was devastated. But he still loved me. I was elated. I still stayed. Then, he professsed a desire to be really honest - that the promises of reconciliation after divorce were lies, an "illusion" to appease me and soften me for an easier divorce. I was destroyed. But he "still loved me." A chance for us again!!! Joy! Then, he got really nasty. He said: "Yes, I lied about reconciliation. I lied about wanting to heal and get my life back with you. I was scared. I am not in love with you." ...I happened to have just read a post by ToughChoices (the email) and Bernadette's post on the Toll. I had had enough. I saw myself being humiliated and needing the strength of this board. I cried and went into no contact. Still, I would never admit to this - not even my SR family.
Then, Tallulah, your post and the responses gave me the strength to tell myself the truth of my problem. I want to thank you. I want to thank all of you. I am finally free of my cancerous fantasy. I am ready to see what life has in store. (Big ups to my HP too!)
I am just emerging from a nearly identical emotional journey (This is a positive spin - because it's more like the ride to hell and then no gas to get back home). But I didn't have your courage to post. I was embarassed to admit that I "stayed" (ie slept with and suffered over )with my now XRAH during our 2 yr separation, through the mediation and divorce, believing his promises that we needed to divorce to get back together. Five days after the divorce, he told me it was over and that it wouldn't bother him if I was to be with another man. I was devastated. But he still loved me. I was elated. I still stayed. Then, he professsed a desire to be really honest - that the promises of reconciliation after divorce were lies, an "illusion" to appease me and soften me for an easier divorce. I was destroyed. But he "still loved me." A chance for us again!!! Joy! Then, he got really nasty. He said: "Yes, I lied about reconciliation. I lied about wanting to heal and get my life back with you. I was scared. I am not in love with you." ...I happened to have just read a post by ToughChoices (the email) and Bernadette's post on the Toll. I had had enough. I saw myself being humiliated and needing the strength of this board. I cried and went into no contact. Still, I would never admit to this - not even my SR family.
Then, Tallulah, your post and the responses gave me the strength to tell myself the truth of my problem. I want to thank you. I want to thank all of you. I am finally free of my cancerous fantasy. I am ready to see what life has in store. (Big ups to my HP too!)
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felicidade... Thank you for posting and sharing...x
I'm not brave. I feel far from brave in fact I feel scared. It was probably fear and sadness that got me here.
Everything we have been through has brought us to this moment. I kept it all in because I was ashamed and didn't know who to turn to. I have told no-one of the (I suppose) emotional abuse. But it was slowly killing me inside.
I can see the pattern starting again. I sent a message to him in light of Ago's post about the phrase 'dry drunk'. I think I used it in our conversation without truly knowing the connotations and so simply said sorry to him. This morning, after he had gone to work, I received a message from him in reply. He said it was ok and that he is glad I went to an Al-anon meeting. I replied thank you. He then messaged me asking me if I was ok. I replied 'Not sure. You?'. He replied 'Not sure either'. And so the invitation to the dance was there again. I've been here so many times before, but I can't dance anymore.
I have no idea what will happen. I have put it out to the universe and hope that it will provide me with what I need.
I'm not brave. I feel far from brave in fact I feel scared. It was probably fear and sadness that got me here.
Everything we have been through has brought us to this moment. I kept it all in because I was ashamed and didn't know who to turn to. I have told no-one of the (I suppose) emotional abuse. But it was slowly killing me inside.
I can see the pattern starting again. I sent a message to him in light of Ago's post about the phrase 'dry drunk'. I think I used it in our conversation without truly knowing the connotations and so simply said sorry to him. This morning, after he had gone to work, I received a message from him in reply. He said it was ok and that he is glad I went to an Al-anon meeting. I replied thank you. He then messaged me asking me if I was ok. I replied 'Not sure. You?'. He replied 'Not sure either'. And so the invitation to the dance was there again. I've been here so many times before, but I can't dance anymore.
I have no idea what will happen. I have put it out to the universe and hope that it will provide me with what I need.
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T -When I first posted here, I was in the same straits as when I arrived at my first al-anon meeting: I didn't know where else to go or what to do. In hindsight,for me, the drivers of sadness and fear that consumed me were transformed, in these moments, as my first steps towards the first step (although I didn't recognize it at the time).
The firm knowledge that the universe will provide the right answers - not my answers - has been painful - all that letting go. Over and over.
Before I wrote you, XRAH was in my home (his dinner night with the kids) putting them to bed. I was out - no contact. ( I have a mother's helper who was home, as I work many evenings) I called the house to see that they'd arrived home safely, and he answered. I was stunned and should have hung up. But I accepted the invitation to dance...but without the expectations and without giving myself away. We spoke about payment issues and then emotional ones. I saw him differently - as he was and not as I needed him to be for me. And I saw that sober or drunk, he was not someone with whom I wanted to share my life. I pitied him, really.
But I still had this lingering, painful hope...until your post.
Trusted my universe, my HP. It's a new day (and quite a glorious 70 degrees here!!)
Good luck, T You are in my prayers and thoughts.
The firm knowledge that the universe will provide the right answers - not my answers - has been painful - all that letting go. Over and over.
Before I wrote you, XRAH was in my home (his dinner night with the kids) putting them to bed. I was out - no contact. ( I have a mother's helper who was home, as I work many evenings) I called the house to see that they'd arrived home safely, and he answered. I was stunned and should have hung up. But I accepted the invitation to dance...but without the expectations and without giving myself away. We spoke about payment issues and then emotional ones. I saw him differently - as he was and not as I needed him to be for me. And I saw that sober or drunk, he was not someone with whom I wanted to share my life. I pitied him, really.
But I still had this lingering, painful hope...until your post.
Trusted my universe, my HP. It's a new day (and quite a glorious 70 degrees here!!)
Good luck, T You are in my prayers and thoughts.
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Originally Posted by felicidade
T -When I first posted here, I was in the same straits as when I arrived at my first al-anon meeting: I didn't know where else to go or what to do. In hindsight,for me, the drivers of sadness and fear that consumed me were transformed, in these moments, as my first steps towards the first step (although I didn't recognize it at the time).
The firm knowledge that the universe will provide the right answers - not my answers - has been painful - all that letting go. Over and over.
Before I wrote you, XRAH was in my home (his dinner night with the kids) putting them to bed. I was out - no contact. ( I have a mother's helper who was home, as I work many evenings) I called the house to see that they'd arrived home safely, and he answered. I was stunned and should have hung up. But I accepted the invitation to dance...but without the expectations and without giving myself away. We spoke about payment issues and then emotional ones. I saw him differently - as he was and not as I needed him to be for me. And I saw that sober or drunk, he was not someone with whom I wanted to share my life. I pitied him, really.
But I still had this lingering, painful hope...until your post.
Trusted my universe, my HP. It's a new day (and quite a glorious 70 degrees here!!)
Good luck, T You are in my prayers and thoughts.
The firm knowledge that the universe will provide the right answers - not my answers - has been painful - all that letting go. Over and over.
Before I wrote you, XRAH was in my home (his dinner night with the kids) putting them to bed. I was out - no contact. ( I have a mother's helper who was home, as I work many evenings) I called the house to see that they'd arrived home safely, and he answered. I was stunned and should have hung up. But I accepted the invitation to dance...but without the expectations and without giving myself away. We spoke about payment issues and then emotional ones. I saw him differently - as he was and not as I needed him to be for me. And I saw that sober or drunk, he was not someone with whom I wanted to share my life. I pitied him, really.
But I still had this lingering, painful hope...until your post.
Trusted my universe, my HP. It's a new day (and quite a glorious 70 degrees here!!)
Good luck, T You are in my prayers and thoughts.
If I’m honest it is not a conversation I want. I want to be talking about positives not negatives: but without laying it all out on the table, owning all our ‘stuff’, getting the right help and tools to work through it and putting in the work to make it good, that will never be.
I read something that struck me today on the ‘How can his life be so great?’ thread and posted by ItsmeAlice. It was about the idea that some cast a rather shiny, self aware, and sensitive dangly thingy in the waters to see if they can nab another soon-to-be codependent little fishy. I look back on what he has told me about his previous relationships and the patterns they have formed and wonder if that happened to me… I was fished. But when I think of it, I feel sorry for him. He said last night he thinks he gets in relationships with the wrong people. He doesn’t really want to look at himself. He might never stop casting.
Thank you for your kind words. You are also in my thoughts. Good luck to you felicidade..x
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Originally Posted by Ago
it doesn't do me any good to be "judgmental", I have proven to myself pretty thoroughly that if I am being judgmental it comes back to harm me, not only that, if I am being judgmental I am actually not working a program myself right then, and Two: it was explained to me if I was actually "working my own program" I would be so busy trying to tackle my own character defects that I wouldn't even have time to look up and "take their inventory" and Judge them.
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The terms are new to me. This is new to me. Even though I have been in a relationship with my A for nearly three years I haven't had a clue what being an alcoholic actually means. I've also be naive to the effects it has had on me. I don't yet understand the terms: the 'world' of the alcoholic has been an esoteric one for me and I don't know what co-dependency means let alone whether I am a co-dependent.
I have spoken to a woman I met at Al-anon today. She was kind enough to give me her number. She said no-one is expecting you to know. That gave me some comfort.
I have spoken to a woman I met at Al-anon today. She was kind enough to give me her number. She said no-one is expecting you to know. That gave me some comfort.
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