what would be good signs for real recovery?

Old 08-07-2003, 07:38 PM
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what would be good signs for real recovery?

My AH is trying so hard to prove to me he is recovering and capable of being what I need him to be now. He loves me, he so wants to show me. I kept avoiding talking to him about it because I didn't want to be fooled. Then I decided to just talk to him on the phone.
In our conversations I heard genuine remorse for all the mistakes he made and some understanding of why he made them (drinking, selfishness). His admissions are right on target, and honest. Even if they aren't what would please me, he just tells the truth. This is new. This is impressive.
It looks like losing me and my daughter, having the rest of his family turn a cold shoulder, and then finally hearing I was in a new relationship, that was his bottom. He realized he would have no kind of a life if he didn't do something about himself. He was determined to not end up that way.
He worked his plan slowly and carefully. He started working on what he calls his 'mental problems' that caused him the anxiety that he masked by drinking. He met a counselor who lived on his block, and began talking with him. He cut down to only a couple beers every other day for over a month. Then he recognized he was ready to stop completely, and has completed day 4 of consecutive non-drinking.
So he isn't drinking. He isn't depressed or miserable over it. He is actually happy and excited. It is amazing to see. He looks and feels great. I don't see any of the guy who I knew when he would have to go without beer. No 'lost' look. Not sleeping the whole time, or shaking, or edgy. Not blaming anyone or denying his problem. He was always huge with denial.
I am intrigued. I have never seen him like this. He mentions meetings. He has told everyone in his life that he is doing this, and draws strength from their encouragement. Even customers! (He is a landscaper.) He has brought me roses, and is taking my daughter and I to the beach and boardwalk on Saturday. It feels like half the town is cheering him on in his efforts to regain his life and family and he is drawing great strength and encouragement from that.
But I am too aware of the statistics. I am thrilled to see the possibility of this epiphany for him. Yet I can't see beyond one day at a time as far as believing in any of it. I realized, with great dread, that I don't know what signs to look for to help recognize sincere and potentially successful recovery.
Can anyone give me anything to look for?
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Old 08-07-2003, 10:35 PM
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Hello J&M,

Pshew. I read this. I went away and came back. I read it again. I went away and came back. 3rd time's a charm, I hope.

You know realistically, of course, that there are no guarantees. That it doesn't matter if you come across a recovering alcoholic who has 5 clean years, a responsible job and a medal from the governors of 37 states... even some of those kind relapse. And there are some whose recovery looks shakey that manage to hang on. You just can't know for sure. The only recovery you can truly judge is your own.

There is nothing wrong with being one of those people who simply cannot be serene living with a using alcoholic. Part of recovering from codependency is understanding what makes YOU tick, what your limits are and honoring those limits. People who can hang in there with a user are not necessarily working a better alanon program. They aren't "more recovered". They may have different boundaries than you do... or they may not be true to themselves. But you may be certain that IF they are living with a using alcoholic and are maintaining a fairly normal level of serenity and sanity, then they have found a way that those things do not depend on someone else's sobriety.

I know that in your logical mind, you know you can't have guarantees. But I sense that your heart is looking and yearning for them. And if that is true, then I wonder if that is because your serenity and security in this relationship would largely depend on this man remaining sober. Once again... I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But if that's true.... ask yourself if you are one who can remain secure in yourself if he slips up... or if you would be in instant turmoil. And also ask if you want to live life looking over your shoulder... or worse... over his shoulder. That wouldn't be a happy situation for either of you.

All the checklists in the world won't tell you if he's a "for always" or a "for the time being". Analyzing him and his chances won't do you a lot of good. Just try to be as honest as you can about yourself... who you are... what you want... what compromises are okay with you... and what you need to feel satisfied in a relationship.

Hugs,
Smoke
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Old 08-08-2003, 03:51 AM
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I agree with every wise word that Smoke said.

There are very few guarantees in life, and recovery does not come with a money-back warranty. The best of them can fail and the worst of them can make it, it's not how bad they were as A's, it's how willing and diligent they are at maintaining sobriety. And that can change from day to day.

My son is an addict, presently in a long term program. Over the years I have seen him maintain a good amount of time (years) and relapse when everything seemed wonderful for him and when he seemed to be working a program. And I have seen him stay clean through some terrible crisis.

So how they appear, how they handle situations in their life is only part of it. It truly is a one-day-at-a-time process.

My suggestion is to work diligently at your program, which will give you the strength and courage to do what is right for you, at any time.

Sending hugs and prayers for you and your family, that each day of sobriety can be seen a gift to you.

Hugs
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Old 08-08-2003, 05:08 AM
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I have to go with the above. There are no guarantee's...ever. Having your focus on him is what caused you so much pain in the first place. Now would be a good time to put it where it belongs...on you.

The first step...I am powerless over alcohol, my life has become unmanagable, is where to begin. We have no power there...we cannot see into the future and we cannot read minds.

You have all of today to do something nice for yourself and allow him to whatever he chooses. Separate journey's, yet side by side.

Hugs,
JT
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Old 08-08-2003, 06:00 AM
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Hmmm

being a recovered alcoholic of 14+ years...I can tell you what parameters I stick with. He mist have...

1. A daily connection to God

2. A 2 year period of sobriety

Ok...even then its not a sure thing...
however.. it certainly is a vast improvement.
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Old 08-08-2003, 07:21 AM
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keep thinking about yourself & your daugter, not him

Jesse:

Like Smoke, I read your post and went away without responding. I didn't want to sound like some kind of pessimist, so I kept my thoughts to myself.

I still don't want to be a pessimist, so if I sound gloomy, I appologize.

You've made such a good recovery so far... you say your daughter is happy to be away from the stress of his drinking... you've both started to heal and to concentrate on your own lives.

Now he enters the picture again, and you're put in the position of spending mental energy wondering and worrying about what he's doing or not doing. He's sort of become the center of attention again... this time by being a good boy... but he's wanting you to spend time and attention on him.

Be carefull to not take time & energy away from your life and your recovery.

I'm happy for him that he's turning in the right direction, I hope it's permanent.... but....

I worry that he's wanting to put his needs over and above the peace and serenity that you & your daughter fought so hard to achieve.
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Old 08-08-2003, 08:40 AM
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Jesse,

Have you ever read the Just for today bookmark?????

It is a wonderful tool in helping me keep my focus on me and recovery....I'll get back to you with it asap...

Meantime, keep reading and coming back....

Love and prayers from one who cares
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:01 AM
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thank you all for responding

I really needed to be grounded by the words of experience and al anon. You are all right, of course, that the focus needs to be on my recovery and a healthy life for my daughter.
It is easy to get caught up in the excitement of friends and family who want so bad for things to work out. That is what was tugging at my heart strings most, that I seemed to be the only pessimist.
I spent quite a bit of time in the Alcoholics forum last night to get a feel for what things are like for them as well. That provided more reality.
One thing said here has gone straight to my mind and really stuck. It was the notion that it would all be about him again. That is so darn true.
I do not like the situation I am in at all. I would not be OK if he were to become active again. I'd want out again. Yet I cannot see myself saying "No, I won't give you a chance, because there is no guarantee you will make it."
I guess right now I am in One Day at a Time mode right along with him. I need to decide if I want to say 'let's be friends' and just choose someone else.
Thank you all for listening and responding.
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:21 PM
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Smile just another thought..........

For long-term sobriety, he'll want to quit the beer for HIM, not just to get you. Recovered alcoholics don't drink because they don't want the stuff spoiling their lives anymore. I hear them say things like: "no alcohol, never again, under any conditions, for any reason". It's a promise they make to themselves.

If he wants to get beer out of his life, then he'll do it with you or without you.

If he's hurting, confused, wanting his family back, and getting all those emotions rapped up with the new desire to be beer-free, then the future is more unpredictable.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 08-09-2003, 06:01 AM
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What is happening for me as my husband is nearing his 2 year sobriety birthday and it was after his first year clean before I realized I was to have NO EXPECTATIONS from him. I rebelled, I thought what a cop out, then slowly my higher power showed me ways that I could understand. My first was I would not ask someone with a spinal cord injury to climb on top of a counter and get something off a high shelf for me. Sometimes they are not capable of it at first. Like everyone says, one day at a time. This was a slow process for me, and now I am seeing if I am able to live like this. For today, I can.
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Old 08-09-2003, 09:23 AM
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jessieandme,

I'm currently struggling with the same issues. AH and I have been separated for six months. He has been sober and active in his recovery for six months. I'm very proud of his progress, and I am seeing changes in him~~~emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

We have three children who adore him. We've been spending lots of time together as a family~~~beach, boating, swimming etc.

I'm working very hard in my recovery and trying to maintain the boundaries I have established. However, now that I've got to the point where I can enjoy time with him, with the kids, he's beginning to push those boundaries. His toes are "on the chalk line." (For a few months, I was uncomfortable being in the same room with him. I could not talk to him, and while I cared for him, I did not feel any love for him~~so we really have come a long way)

He's wanting more and more from me~~~more time alone, without the kids, more kisses~~hugs that are more sensual than I feel comfortable with.

I really needed to read the replies that everyone wrote to this post. It made me realize that I will be unable to tolerate a slip. Through 20 years of marriage, I have supported him, believed in him, trusted him, forgave him over and over again.

He is trying so hard to win me back. And I'm fearful. I'm working through my pain, including many infidelities that I had just rationalized away and buried deep inside my soul.

I know that he desparately wants to move back into the house and the kids want him here. I'm just now beginning to find who I really am, and I'm fearful that I will cave and let everything go, to make others happy~~~AH, my children, his family. He's sober now~~~and active in a recovery program. Shouldn't that be enough for me? Why am I struggling?

I'm sorry if I've threadjacked your post. I can relate to how you are feeling. My thoughts and prayers are with you, and I know that we will find our way.

Take care of yourself and your daughter. Everyone here has told me to give myself the gift of time, and that's what I've been doing.

Love,

S
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Old 08-10-2003, 09:14 AM
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thank you, sarah, for sharing

He is trying so hard to win me back. And I'm fearful. ...
I know that he desparately wants to move back into the house and the kids want him here. I'm just now beginning to find who I really am, and I'm fearful that I will cave and let everything go, to make others happy~~~AH, my children, his family. He's sober now~~~and active in a recovery program. Shouldn't that be enough for me? Why am I struggling?
Sarah,
It is nice to hear someone else in the same situation. Thank you for sharing that with me. You speak my feelings. I will start a new thread with how higns are today and I hope you will share there too.
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