I need you great people again.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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I need you great people again.
I haven't posted here for quite a while.
Life has been so much better since cutting the ties from XABF in the summer of 2007 and all with your help. I've done all kinds of me work and finally took the plunge back into the dating pool again last summer (2008), met a super guy, it didn't go in the direction I had hoped but, amazingly, we managed to stay friends! I let my experience with him be the "benchmark" for any other new relationships so that every time I met a new suitor I would compare the "super guy" to him.
Well! In early November I met someone online and local. We emailed for some time and got to know each other. It seemed he was pretty fussy too about who he was going to let into his life. Eventually, at the very start of January we finally met up. He was everything he was supposed to be and, apparently, so was I for him. I let him woo me. We had several dates over the course of a week and then he took off for two weeks in the sun. I missed him...I missed the great conversation more than anything and realized that he more than met the "benchmark". As our dates were usually day time dates owing to his work schedule, there was never any alcohol present. I didn't ask him about drinking but I did let him know that I wouldn't be going down the "I need alcohol to get through the day" road ever again and filled him in on why the relationship with XABF ended.
OK...he got back from his trip last weekend and we have seen each other every day but this time at different times of the day including evenings because he's off work for another week.
And he seems to drink a lot.
And sometimes when he's talking after he has had a couple of BIG drinks, I feel like I am back in the company of XABF but I can't put my finger on what it is that reminds me of XABF unless it's the smell of booze on his breath. Or maybe it's the fact that, like XABF, he had a lot and he lost it all and is now rebuilding. That for me isn't a big problem because it happens in life but I can't help but think that when he explains why he lost it all maybe he lost it because of alcohol. I just do not know. He's new to this city......as new as I am. Knows a lot of people in his business but has not really made any friends. OK.....he's a guy and not as extroverted as I am. That said, he certainly was keeping busy on his own until I came along....he'd take himself out for hikes and long drives, exploring the city, going to movies and concerts on his own etc.....and that's very different from XABF who was an extreme introvert.
There is a huge drinking culture in North America. Lots of people drink without being alcoholics. The question, as you know and as I have learned here, is:
DO THEY NEED ALCOHOL?
So, do I ask this man if he needs alcohol or just continue to observe?
You know what the problem is, of course........I like him and I am falling for him fast. BUT!!! I know the only person I can control is myself.
OK, people.......tell it like it is, please. I need to hear it.
ARL
Life has been so much better since cutting the ties from XABF in the summer of 2007 and all with your help. I've done all kinds of me work and finally took the plunge back into the dating pool again last summer (2008), met a super guy, it didn't go in the direction I had hoped but, amazingly, we managed to stay friends! I let my experience with him be the "benchmark" for any other new relationships so that every time I met a new suitor I would compare the "super guy" to him.
Well! In early November I met someone online and local. We emailed for some time and got to know each other. It seemed he was pretty fussy too about who he was going to let into his life. Eventually, at the very start of January we finally met up. He was everything he was supposed to be and, apparently, so was I for him. I let him woo me. We had several dates over the course of a week and then he took off for two weeks in the sun. I missed him...I missed the great conversation more than anything and realized that he more than met the "benchmark". As our dates were usually day time dates owing to his work schedule, there was never any alcohol present. I didn't ask him about drinking but I did let him know that I wouldn't be going down the "I need alcohol to get through the day" road ever again and filled him in on why the relationship with XABF ended.
OK...he got back from his trip last weekend and we have seen each other every day but this time at different times of the day including evenings because he's off work for another week.
And he seems to drink a lot.
And sometimes when he's talking after he has had a couple of BIG drinks, I feel like I am back in the company of XABF but I can't put my finger on what it is that reminds me of XABF unless it's the smell of booze on his breath. Or maybe it's the fact that, like XABF, he had a lot and he lost it all and is now rebuilding. That for me isn't a big problem because it happens in life but I can't help but think that when he explains why he lost it all maybe he lost it because of alcohol. I just do not know. He's new to this city......as new as I am. Knows a lot of people in his business but has not really made any friends. OK.....he's a guy and not as extroverted as I am. That said, he certainly was keeping busy on his own until I came along....he'd take himself out for hikes and long drives, exploring the city, going to movies and concerts on his own etc.....and that's very different from XABF who was an extreme introvert.
There is a huge drinking culture in North America. Lots of people drink without being alcoholics. The question, as you know and as I have learned here, is:
DO THEY NEED ALCOHOL?
So, do I ask this man if he needs alcohol or just continue to observe?
You know what the problem is, of course........I like him and I am falling for him fast. BUT!!! I know the only person I can control is myself.
OK, people.......tell it like it is, please. I need to hear it.
ARL
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
For me, after I left the AH, two big red flags for me in later relationships were "couldn't put my finger on what it is that reminds me of EXAH" and "fell for him fast." 
I chose not to look at those red flags for 12 long years, every single time.
It was very painful for me.
I chose not to look at those red flags for 12 long years, every single time.
It was very painful for me.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello there Lady, good to see you again
Been there, done that. That's pretty much what I did after my divorce.
I can't tell you what it is for you, but I can tell you how it is for _me_. I also went out with a few charming ladies who were _almost_ perfect. I also had my doubts. This is what I was told in my al-anon meets.
It's not about _them_, it's about _me_.
Is that the feeling I want to have for the rest of my life. That I found another woman that reminds of my ex? Why ever am I even thinking of a woman that is remotely similar to my ex?
After all I have been thru, after all the pain I endured, what am I doing even _looking_ at people who drink? Is that what I want for the rest of my life? To live with someone who's drinking I'm not sure of?
Here in Las Vegas we have a lot of Elvis Presley imitators. Every casino has a few. They all have the same hairdo, the same costume, and most of 'em have a pretty good singing voice. They're all different people underneath, but they're still all the same bad imitation of a star.
My sponsor told me that the first few women I dated might have been different people underneath, but they were all the same bad imitation of a partner.
The last few ladies I've dated were _very_ different from my ex. I never felt that funny, nagging feeling at the back of my mind. The charmer I'm dating now doesn't drink at all, and I _love_ that.
Mike
Originally Posted by ARealLady 
... I've done all kinds of me work and finally took the plunge back into the dating pool again ....
Originally Posted by ARealLady
...OK, people.......tell it like it is, please. I need to hear it. ....
It's not about _them_, it's about _me_.
Originally Posted by ARealLady
... I feel like I am back in the company of XABF ....
Originally Posted by ARealLady
... And he seems to drink a lot.....
Here in Las Vegas we have a lot of Elvis Presley imitators. Every casino has a few. They all have the same hairdo, the same costume, and most of 'em have a pretty good singing voice. They're all different people underneath, but they're still all the same bad imitation of a star.
My sponsor told me that the first few women I dated might have been different people underneath, but they were all the same bad imitation of a partner.
The last few ladies I've dated were _very_ different from my ex. I never felt that funny, nagging feeling at the back of my mind. The charmer I'm dating now doesn't drink at all, and I _love_ that.
Mike
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 285
Follow that deep internal gut feeling. If you think it is a problem then it is.
You know it is thats why you posted the question. Hugs to you.
What would happen if you actually asked him about his alcohol use and definition of what is acceptable?
He may speak the truth, WOW how cool would that be. Honest open dialogue.
You may learn his consuption is more than you are prepared to accept and better to find out now than when more deeply involved.
He may get cranky and call it quits. Hmmm that would be painful but better in the long run too.
Or you may discover its not actually an issue and open the door for fronk communication that serves you well in the relationship for years to come.
You know it is thats why you posted the question. Hugs to you.
What would happen if you actually asked him about his alcohol use and definition of what is acceptable?
He may speak the truth, WOW how cool would that be. Honest open dialogue.
You may learn his consuption is more than you are prepared to accept and better to find out now than when more deeply involved.
He may get cranky and call it quits. Hmmm that would be painful but better in the long run too.
Or you may discover its not actually an issue and open the door for fronk communication that serves you well in the relationship for years to come.
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Posts: 477
So what is it in some of us that draws us back to the "imitation" of the ex?
I have read those chapters so many times in Melody Beattie's "Beyond Co-dependency" and how it is not a good idea to gravitate towards the "instant attraction" which is often fatal. I dated a couple of men where there was no instant attraction and gave it the old college try but eventually things fizzled out. There was no instant attraction to the current man but it came along pretty fast and, of course, that's where I'm stuck now because of the realization that alcohol plays a significant role (it seems) in his life.
ARL
I have read those chapters so many times in Melody Beattie's "Beyond Co-dependency" and how it is not a good idea to gravitate towards the "instant attraction" which is often fatal. I dated a couple of men where there was no instant attraction and gave it the old college try but eventually things fizzled out. There was no instant attraction to the current man but it came along pretty fast and, of course, that's where I'm stuck now because of the realization that alcohol plays a significant role (it seems) in his life.
ARL
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
You have received some pretty solid advice already.
My two cents is this, whenever I "fall fast" for whatever reason, there are traits that I am ignoring that I SHOULDN'T. I make exceptions without realizing that I am doing it. Before long (or unfortunately way down the road) the stuff I ignored is still there only later am I aware of it and how much it bothers me.
I am not telling you what to do, but please be careful when falling fast.
My two cents is this, whenever I "fall fast" for whatever reason, there are traits that I am ignoring that I SHOULDN'T. I make exceptions without realizing that I am doing it. Before long (or unfortunately way down the road) the stuff I ignored is still there only later am I aware of it and how much it bothers me.
I am not telling you what to do, but please be careful when falling fast.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I think we keep repeating pattern until we learn the lesson that pattern is offering.
What is it you need to learn here?
I have no ideas but it could be...
1. You dont have to be the rescuer all the time
2. You desrerve love from someone with diiferent values
3. You need to improve your own self esteem and stop choosing these men.
4 Living with someone elses problems in the moment stops you from addressing their own issues.
5 You can choose a sober person and life will still be fun and fullfilling
6 Maybe its time to love yourself more
Only you can answer the question."What is this issue trying to teach me?"
What is it you need to learn here?
I have no ideas but it could be...
1. You dont have to be the rescuer all the time
2. You desrerve love from someone with diiferent values
3. You need to improve your own self esteem and stop choosing these men.
4 Living with someone elses problems in the moment stops you from addressing their own issues.
5 You can choose a sober person and life will still be fun and fullfilling
6 Maybe its time to love yourself more
Only you can answer the question."What is this issue trying to teach me?"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 477
."What is this issue trying to teach me?"
Yup.....that is what I am asking myself.
There is NO WAY I will let myself end up back where I was with XABF. That was me pretending everything was OK. What I realized last night was that I was back counting the drinks the new guy was pouring for himself. And it was the sinking feeling and an "uh oh!" while I nursed my ONE very small drink for three hours.
It's quite clear that I do not like it and I need to address it and soon because I do love myself and like my life too much...WITHOUT these extra complications.
ARL
Yup.....that is what I am asking myself.
There is NO WAY I will let myself end up back where I was with XABF. That was me pretending everything was OK. What I realized last night was that I was back counting the drinks the new guy was pouring for himself. And it was the sinking feeling and an "uh oh!" while I nursed my ONE very small drink for three hours.
It's quite clear that I do not like it and I need to address it and soon because I do love myself and like my life too much...WITHOUT these extra complications.
ARL
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
It is prefectly okay to be with someone with whom you aren't questioning their drinking. This man might be nice, but he isn't the last man on earth.
If you feel comfortable talking with him about your feelings (as you are falling fast and hopefully can communicate with him freely), then maybe you want to talk about it.???
If you feel comfortable talking with him about your feelings (as you are falling fast and hopefully can communicate with him freely), then maybe you want to talk about it.???
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I had a similar experience. I started dating again and found myself being charmed by a man who had many admirable qualities. I found myself minimizing the red flags because he had so much going for him. One day, I was feeling anxious about our upcoming date for the weekend. I took a walk and stopped to contemplate in a local park. After that I cancelled our date and never saw him again.
When I really took time to look at the facts, I discovered there was actually more than just the drinking that bothered me about him. I hadn't seen too much problem drinking while in his presence. Just had a little 'feeling' that it might be there under the surface. But, when I really looked objectively at what I saw, there were other signs. He dismissed my opinions on certain topics as silly. He said things that were mildly insulting to me, and passed them off as a joke. He admitted to having problems in past relationships, but they were always completely the other person's fault. He wanted to move the relationship along quicker than I felt comfortable with. When I considered all these things objectively without letting the 'hot and bothered' part of me have a say, it was clear where it was going.
Just my experience, may not be yours..............
L
P.S. Letting that guy go was the best thing that could have happened because a few weeks later I met the guy I am seeing now, who is respectful, honest, creative, independent, loving, and downright wonderful!
When I really took time to look at the facts, I discovered there was actually more than just the drinking that bothered me about him. I hadn't seen too much problem drinking while in his presence. Just had a little 'feeling' that it might be there under the surface. But, when I really looked objectively at what I saw, there were other signs. He dismissed my opinions on certain topics as silly. He said things that were mildly insulting to me, and passed them off as a joke. He admitted to having problems in past relationships, but they were always completely the other person's fault. He wanted to move the relationship along quicker than I felt comfortable with. When I considered all these things objectively without letting the 'hot and bothered' part of me have a say, it was clear where it was going.
Just my experience, may not be yours..............
L
P.S. Letting that guy go was the best thing that could have happened because a few weeks later I met the guy I am seeing now, who is respectful, honest, creative, independent, loving, and downright wonderful!
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As a disclaimer, this is just my opinion! You sound like a smart lady with a lot of good sense, and I'm sure you'll figure out a solution that works well for your specific situation.
As there isn't a distinct line between "heavy drinking" and alcoholism, but there is a distinct line between healthy and unhealthy alcohol consumption, I choose to use the "healthy" recommendations as a guide for my own comfort.
The FDA dietary guidelines recommends that those who drink alcohol do so only in moderation. They define this moderate drinking as no more than 2 alcoholic beverages per day for men, and no more than 1 alcoholic beverage per day for women.
If I observe, over a period of time, someone drinking more than these guidelines suggest is healthy - I begin to question their long-term ability to moderate their alcohol consumption. That is not to say that they currently HAVE a drinking problem or even that they WILL HAVE a drinking problem. It's just - alcoholism in a close friend or partner is NOT something that I want to experience again - so I've made the decision to draw the line pretty early on.
There are a lot of healthy, truly moderate drinkers out there. There are lots of healthy non-drinkers out there. I don't want to spend any more of my life wondering if someone else has a problem with alcohol.
Best of luck to you!
-TC
As there isn't a distinct line between "heavy drinking" and alcoholism, but there is a distinct line between healthy and unhealthy alcohol consumption, I choose to use the "healthy" recommendations as a guide for my own comfort.
The FDA dietary guidelines recommends that those who drink alcohol do so only in moderation. They define this moderate drinking as no more than 2 alcoholic beverages per day for men, and no more than 1 alcoholic beverage per day for women.
If I observe, over a period of time, someone drinking more than these guidelines suggest is healthy - I begin to question their long-term ability to moderate their alcohol consumption. That is not to say that they currently HAVE a drinking problem or even that they WILL HAVE a drinking problem. It's just - alcoholism in a close friend or partner is NOT something that I want to experience again - so I've made the decision to draw the line pretty early on.
There are a lot of healthy, truly moderate drinkers out there. There are lots of healthy non-drinkers out there. I don't want to spend any more of my life wondering if someone else has a problem with alcohol.
Best of luck to you!
-TC
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Everyone has already given you some pretty insightful advice. But, this just occurred to me and it was posted in another thread a while back.
I am a non-smoker. I would not date/marry a smoker. It doesn't mean that I think smokers are bad or that I do not respect them. I simply don't want to live around smoke. I don't like the smell or taste. I have friends that smoke, but they don't do it around me. There has never been an issue with that. No polarized feelings or sensitivities there. Very matter of fact.
Similarly, knowing what I know now, I would not date/marry a heavy drinker or anyone whose alcohol consumption I was uncomfortable with. It isn't personal or an attack on them. It has to do with MY comfort zone and the life I want to live. Matter of fact. I am friends with people who drink heavily, but not around me. I chose not to engage in those activities any longer. They respect me and I respect them. If things ever got uncomfortbale for me, I would not lecture or debate, I would distance myself.
This is just me and I hope you find it in yourself to choose what makes you happy, HEALTHY and comfortable.
I am a non-smoker. I would not date/marry a smoker. It doesn't mean that I think smokers are bad or that I do not respect them. I simply don't want to live around smoke. I don't like the smell or taste. I have friends that smoke, but they don't do it around me. There has never been an issue with that. No polarized feelings or sensitivities there. Very matter of fact.
Similarly, knowing what I know now, I would not date/marry a heavy drinker or anyone whose alcohol consumption I was uncomfortable with. It isn't personal or an attack on them. It has to do with MY comfort zone and the life I want to live. Matter of fact. I am friends with people who drink heavily, but not around me. I chose not to engage in those activities any longer. They respect me and I respect them. If things ever got uncomfortbale for me, I would not lecture or debate, I would distance myself.
This is just me and I hope you find it in yourself to choose what makes you happy, HEALTHY and comfortable.
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Last night I went over to see my new friend as planned.
And we had a talk. I used a bit of the history re XABF as a preamble to what I wanted to say.
He listened and he did not get defensive or belligerent. We talked about "drinking cultures" and he explained his reasons for drinking. I listened and did not try to prove him "wrong". In his favour, he did not once say that he was "controlling" his drinking.
So, what needed to be said by me has been said.
It isn't healthy but I'm not his mother or his doctor. So far his drinking has not interfered with any plans we have made. He is an older man (62) and, outwardly, in very good physical shape.
I discovered there was actually more than just the drinking that bothered me about him.
I haven't found anything else that bothers me about this man. He is respectful of me at all times. He's had his share of misfortune in life, as have I, but, other than filling me in on the generalities, he doesn't dwell on the past and make himself the "victim" (that's something XABF did all the time). I have never heard "revenge" language from him. He seems, at this point, as grounded as I believe I am.
It's too early to say anything more. My plan for myself is to be vigilant over MYSELF. I needed to have last night's conversation with him and I am glad I spoke up.
ARL
And we had a talk. I used a bit of the history re XABF as a preamble to what I wanted to say.
He listened and he did not get defensive or belligerent. We talked about "drinking cultures" and he explained his reasons for drinking. I listened and did not try to prove him "wrong". In his favour, he did not once say that he was "controlling" his drinking.
So, what needed to be said by me has been said.
It isn't healthy but I'm not his mother or his doctor. So far his drinking has not interfered with any plans we have made. He is an older man (62) and, outwardly, in very good physical shape.
I discovered there was actually more than just the drinking that bothered me about him.
I haven't found anything else that bothers me about this man. He is respectful of me at all times. He's had his share of misfortune in life, as have I, but, other than filling me in on the generalities, he doesn't dwell on the past and make himself the "victim" (that's something XABF did all the time). I have never heard "revenge" language from him. He seems, at this point, as grounded as I believe I am.
It's too early to say anything more. My plan for myself is to be vigilant over MYSELF. I needed to have last night's conversation with him and I am glad I spoke up.
ARL
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Originally Posted by ARealLady
I haven't found anything else that bothers me about this man.
(Not saying you are, just saying keep an eye out for the possibility.)I've also learned that in a relationship, it's much more important to pay attention to my own behaviors than the other person's.
I hope it works out for you ARL.
L
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Hi ARL, nice to hear from you again. I havent dated anyone since leaving my xab, ive had offers but ive declined because im still not ready. When it does happen im sure that i will come across the same dilemas as yourself. I find myself watching my friends drinking and despairing sometimes when I think "wow she's had enough", i have to snap myself out of trying to control the situation and keeping to my side of the street. (easier said than done).
I'd enjoy the relationship, and if it works it works and if it doesnt then it isnt supposed to be. Your a strong lady trust your instincts and take it day by day, falling in love is a nice feeling but for us codies i found that it can happen way to fast, as long as your aware of the situation that's a BIG plus.
Keep us informed, it good to hear from you again, you helped me a lot.
Gill
I'd enjoy the relationship, and if it works it works and if it doesnt then it isnt supposed to be. Your a strong lady trust your instincts and take it day by day, falling in love is a nice feeling but for us codies i found that it can happen way to fast, as long as your aware of the situation that's a BIG plus.
Keep us informed, it good to hear from you again, you helped me a lot.
Gill
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I've also learned that in a relationship, it's much more important to pay attention to my own behaviors than the other person's.
When you posted that remark last week, LTD, I journalled about it and then went back to Melody Beattie in "Beyond Co-dependency" where, lo and behold, in the chapter on Intimacy she discusses what propels us to use distancing behaviours. I could FEEL myself going into classic anti-intimacy behaviours (fight picking, fault finding, withdrawal) and the parallels with XABF were too familiar! I tried to identify the "triggers" coming from the new guy and realized they were almost word-for-word utterances I had heard from XABF. And this past week, his actions have not matched his words at all.
So, I am well out of it earlier rather than later with no regrets.
I like myself too much and as I got into bed last night with my book I felt at peace.
ARL
When you posted that remark last week, LTD, I journalled about it and then went back to Melody Beattie in "Beyond Co-dependency" where, lo and behold, in the chapter on Intimacy she discusses what propels us to use distancing behaviours. I could FEEL myself going into classic anti-intimacy behaviours (fight picking, fault finding, withdrawal) and the parallels with XABF were too familiar! I tried to identify the "triggers" coming from the new guy and realized they were almost word-for-word utterances I had heard from XABF. And this past week, his actions have not matched his words at all.
So, I am well out of it earlier rather than later with no regrets.
I like myself too much and as I got into bed last night with my book I felt at peace.
ARL
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Originally Posted by MissFixit
Hi,
In a nutshell, could explain what anti-intimacy beahviors are?
In a nutshell, could explain what anti-intimacy beahviors are?
I hide my low self-esteem by being over-responsible and super-dependable. As long as I am super-busy taking care of _everything_ there is not time for anybody to see that I'm really not all the confident of what I am doing, that my busy-ness is a "smoke screen" that prevents people from realizing how scared I really am to be found out as the useless, worthless, fool that my parents told me I was.
Mike
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