I going to ruffle some feather on this one
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 74
I going to ruffle some feather on this one
For the most part I get the thinking behind what most of you are saying. I think that alot of what is said on this site is supportive, wise and helpful. I have to admit it has helped me to re-realize that I don't have any control over anyone else, their actions, decisions, etc.
That being said. I don't agree with everything that is said or recommended. So maybe some of you can explain what I am missing on some of these issues.
For example... I don't understand the thinking behind NOT going to a loved ones trial. Is this supposed to punish them further for her actions? To show them you don't approve of their drug use? I just don't see that as helpful to anyone. DO you think if you go they will get the impression you support them doing drugs? My addicted friend Amie arrested on felony drug charges, spent 2 days in jail and is awaiting trial. If things were better between us I would go to give her moral support, just as I would any other friend. It doesn't mean I support the crime she commited. So why would that be bad to do that?
I don't understand the "letting go" NO CONTACT thing either. I get the concept, it was explained to me rather well in one of my previous posts. But from what I can tell, it doesn't make a bit of difference if they are in your life or not. They will do drugs and possibly even OD. Unless they are abusive or stealing from you isn't it possible to have the most basic of relationships with them and not have it considered to be enabling?
For instance, If I were to go out to lunch with my friend but she pays for her meal and I pay for mine. Or we go out to do something and she pays her own way. We hang out together as long as she is not under the influence. How would this be concidered enabling? I'm not buying her lunch, Im not paying for her or doing something she can't do for herself. I'm just enjoying my friends company. These are only a few examples I can think of that I think should be acceptable and could not be considered enabling. As long as you set and abide by the boundries you set for yourself and your addict. Isn't it better to have even a little of something than nothing at all?
Now this is a mute point for me as my friend Amie and I aren't talking and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. She just doesn't want to talk to me. She will sit there and listen and give short answers but its obvious she doesn't want to talk with me. However if we were still on speaking terms, couldn't it be possible to still maintain some basic relationship with her. To accept who and what she is and act accordingly without validating or enabling their addiction?
Why does it need to be all or nothing?
Don't we all have relationships with non-addicted people that fall into this catagory? Everyone has at least one person in their life where your tolerating their bad behavior because you enjoy their company. Maybe they burp loudly, or make rude comments, but you still like them and like to spend time with them. How is that any different? Your not going to change them, you can't make them stop burping or making rude comments. You accept them for who they are at that point in their life.
Now obviously im not talking about all addicts here. But from I have seen and read not all addicts or stuations are the same. Some are alot more complicated than others. Some addicts are more abusive and apt to steal from you.
For me, Amie, never stole from me, and was not abusive. However she did not show any appreciation for what I was doing to "HELP" her. Even though she did say she appreciated it and thanked me. It would have been nice to have the appreciation showed in some way. But I digress.....
We had fun together, we talked, I encouraged her. And I miss that part of our friendship. Is it too much to think I can accept the bad things in her life and focus on the good things until such time she is ready to fix the bad things herself?
I do it for other friends why not her?
I know the basic addiction to drugs/alcohol is the same for everyone. Your either addicted or your not. But the extent of the addiction, the person addicted, the amount of drugs and alcohol they consume, and how they and you deal with their addiction are all very different.
I'm not trying to undermine anyones beliefs or game plans. Im just suggesting that a slice of pie is better than no pie at all. And everyones situation is different. At this point I don't have the option I am suggesting. I would like to but i don't. So I am forced into the NO Contact, Let go policy everyone is fond of. And to be honest it sucks and I hate it. But I don't have any other choice at this point. But maybe someone else does, maybe its you?
That being said. I don't agree with everything that is said or recommended. So maybe some of you can explain what I am missing on some of these issues.
For example... I don't understand the thinking behind NOT going to a loved ones trial. Is this supposed to punish them further for her actions? To show them you don't approve of their drug use? I just don't see that as helpful to anyone. DO you think if you go they will get the impression you support them doing drugs? My addicted friend Amie arrested on felony drug charges, spent 2 days in jail and is awaiting trial. If things were better between us I would go to give her moral support, just as I would any other friend. It doesn't mean I support the crime she commited. So why would that be bad to do that?
I don't understand the "letting go" NO CONTACT thing either. I get the concept, it was explained to me rather well in one of my previous posts. But from what I can tell, it doesn't make a bit of difference if they are in your life or not. They will do drugs and possibly even OD. Unless they are abusive or stealing from you isn't it possible to have the most basic of relationships with them and not have it considered to be enabling?
For instance, If I were to go out to lunch with my friend but she pays for her meal and I pay for mine. Or we go out to do something and she pays her own way. We hang out together as long as she is not under the influence. How would this be concidered enabling? I'm not buying her lunch, Im not paying for her or doing something she can't do for herself. I'm just enjoying my friends company. These are only a few examples I can think of that I think should be acceptable and could not be considered enabling. As long as you set and abide by the boundries you set for yourself and your addict. Isn't it better to have even a little of something than nothing at all?
Now this is a mute point for me as my friend Amie and I aren't talking and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. She just doesn't want to talk to me. She will sit there and listen and give short answers but its obvious she doesn't want to talk with me. However if we were still on speaking terms, couldn't it be possible to still maintain some basic relationship with her. To accept who and what she is and act accordingly without validating or enabling their addiction?
Why does it need to be all or nothing?
Don't we all have relationships with non-addicted people that fall into this catagory? Everyone has at least one person in their life where your tolerating their bad behavior because you enjoy their company. Maybe they burp loudly, or make rude comments, but you still like them and like to spend time with them. How is that any different? Your not going to change them, you can't make them stop burping or making rude comments. You accept them for who they are at that point in their life.
Now obviously im not talking about all addicts here. But from I have seen and read not all addicts or stuations are the same. Some are alot more complicated than others. Some addicts are more abusive and apt to steal from you.
For me, Amie, never stole from me, and was not abusive. However she did not show any appreciation for what I was doing to "HELP" her. Even though she did say she appreciated it and thanked me. It would have been nice to have the appreciation showed in some way. But I digress.....
We had fun together, we talked, I encouraged her. And I miss that part of our friendship. Is it too much to think I can accept the bad things in her life and focus on the good things until such time she is ready to fix the bad things herself?
I do it for other friends why not her?
I know the basic addiction to drugs/alcohol is the same for everyone. Your either addicted or your not. But the extent of the addiction, the person addicted, the amount of drugs and alcohol they consume, and how they and you deal with their addiction are all very different.
I'm not trying to undermine anyones beliefs or game plans. Im just suggesting that a slice of pie is better than no pie at all. And everyones situation is different. At this point I don't have the option I am suggesting. I would like to but i don't. So I am forced into the NO Contact, Let go policy everyone is fond of. And to be honest it sucks and I hate it. But I don't have any other choice at this point. But maybe someone else does, maybe its you?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
((Ksaun)) - no one says it has to be all or nothing. It is recommended, but I think everyone also tries to make it clear that we do what we're most comfortable with.
FWIW, my dad went to court with me the first time. Not just for support...he had put his house up as bond, and I think he was scared I wouldn't show. The second time I went to court, he didn't go.
Most of the people you see here, have been going through this for years and years. There is a huge difference when you're talking about things happening for the first or second time, versus the 10th or 20th time.
The no-contact thing is also individual. Though I lived 2 hours from my dad, never stole from him and kept him pretty isolated from my using, he would still come down every few months, find me on the streets, and get me lunch and take me to the park. My XABF is in jail, and I still write to him. I DON'T go see him, and I wont if he gets out. I don't send him money, and I don't get suckered in. I just let him know what MY life is like, in recovery, and offer him encouragement in that direction. However, when he was on the streets, I was no-contact with him. In jail, he's clean and "safe" for me...on the streets, it's another story.
I think we all find our own path and what works for us. Just because something is recommended, doesn't mean it's the only way. Just as there are more than one way to recover from addiction, there is more than one way to deal with the addict.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
FWIW, my dad went to court with me the first time. Not just for support...he had put his house up as bond, and I think he was scared I wouldn't show. The second time I went to court, he didn't go.
Most of the people you see here, have been going through this for years and years. There is a huge difference when you're talking about things happening for the first or second time, versus the 10th or 20th time.
The no-contact thing is also individual. Though I lived 2 hours from my dad, never stole from him and kept him pretty isolated from my using, he would still come down every few months, find me on the streets, and get me lunch and take me to the park. My XABF is in jail, and I still write to him. I DON'T go see him, and I wont if he gets out. I don't send him money, and I don't get suckered in. I just let him know what MY life is like, in recovery, and offer him encouragement in that direction. However, when he was on the streets, I was no-contact with him. In jail, he's clean and "safe" for me...on the streets, it's another story.
I think we all find our own path and what works for us. Just because something is recommended, doesn't mean it's the only way. Just as there are more than one way to recover from addiction, there is more than one way to deal with the addict.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Home of the Ravens-MD
Posts: 1,316
Actually, one of the basic principals of Al-Anon & Nar-Anon....is keep what you like and leave the rest. Simply meaning one member might say something that you can't agree with, well it is NOT law, it is NOT a rule...............it is simply one persons opinion.
That is the basis of the program, to be of support to each other, sharing our experiences. What worked or did not work for you. That's is why we try not to give advice. What worked for one person may not be the answer for another.
We believe in "detachment" (with love) that doesn't always mean that you can have NO contact with the addict. What we are learning to do, is to take care of ourselves...in other words if we are being drawn into the drama and chaos of the addiction, then we need to step away.
When my daughter relapsed in November, I felt I had to step away from her, both for her own good and mine. I told her that if she continued to use, that I did not want to see or talk to her, I did not say this as a punishment, I said it because it hurt me so much to see her destroying her life & her kids.
And yes, the last time she went to court, I DID go with her. That was MY choice.
You see the whole program is simply suggested, we work it in our own way and in our own time. We draw on the each others experience & strength.
Hope that addresses some of your confusion.
Chris
That is the basis of the program, to be of support to each other, sharing our experiences. What worked or did not work for you. That's is why we try not to give advice. What worked for one person may not be the answer for another.
We believe in "detachment" (with love) that doesn't always mean that you can have NO contact with the addict. What we are learning to do, is to take care of ourselves...in other words if we are being drawn into the drama and chaos of the addiction, then we need to step away.
When my daughter relapsed in November, I felt I had to step away from her, both for her own good and mine. I told her that if she continued to use, that I did not want to see or talk to her, I did not say this as a punishment, I said it because it hurt me so much to see her destroying her life & her kids.
And yes, the last time she went to court, I DID go with her. That was MY choice.
You see the whole program is simply suggested, we work it in our own way and in our own time. We draw on the each others experience & strength.
Hope that addresses some of your confusion.
Chris
My husband is an addict
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
Ksaun,
My understanding of the whole letting go, no contact concept is if and when your life becomes unmanageable, when you become consumed with trying to help that person and it sucks the life out of you. There are some people who are receptive to help and others that aren't. I haven't read your thread, I pop on and off this forum occasionally so I'm not to informed on you or your friends situation.
Another way to look at it is, why would you want to sit idle by and watch your friend or family member self destruct? What reason do they have to clean up their act if they don't suffer any loss and their life gets to remain the same, friends, family, job. It isn't until the addict starts to lose those things and start reaching their "bottom" that they seek and accept help.
I lost my best of friends at 19 (I'm now 25) we grew up from elementary school, we lived together my senior year. We graduated, she went on to college and worked full time, I just went to work. She was addicted to opiates, I threatened to call the institution one night when she was throwing a fit because her bf wouldn't get her pills. She promised she'd stop if I promised not to call, I didn't make the call. She moved out that weekend and a week later her step dad called me to tell me she over dosed and died. I know it's not my fault, but I could have done something when I recognized she had a problem, instead I was selfish and didn't want her mad at me. Man I wish I knew then what I know now.
All of your points are valid and I can see where you are coming from I've been there, but someones life is always worth giving up a friendship for if it means they will live another day and one day when and if they do accept help and get into recovery, that person will realize just how lucky he or she is to have someone that was willing to sacrifice your friendship to make a point that their life is more important.
Good luck to you and your friend, I hope she comes around.
My understanding of the whole letting go, no contact concept is if and when your life becomes unmanageable, when you become consumed with trying to help that person and it sucks the life out of you. There are some people who are receptive to help and others that aren't. I haven't read your thread, I pop on and off this forum occasionally so I'm not to informed on you or your friends situation.
Another way to look at it is, why would you want to sit idle by and watch your friend or family member self destruct? What reason do they have to clean up their act if they don't suffer any loss and their life gets to remain the same, friends, family, job. It isn't until the addict starts to lose those things and start reaching their "bottom" that they seek and accept help.
I lost my best of friends at 19 (I'm now 25) we grew up from elementary school, we lived together my senior year. We graduated, she went on to college and worked full time, I just went to work. She was addicted to opiates, I threatened to call the institution one night when she was throwing a fit because her bf wouldn't get her pills. She promised she'd stop if I promised not to call, I didn't make the call. She moved out that weekend and a week later her step dad called me to tell me she over dosed and died. I know it's not my fault, but I could have done something when I recognized she had a problem, instead I was selfish and didn't want her mad at me. Man I wish I knew then what I know now.
All of your points are valid and I can see where you are coming from I've been there, but someones life is always worth giving up a friendship for if it means they will live another day and one day when and if they do accept help and get into recovery, that person will realize just how lucky he or she is to have someone that was willing to sacrifice your friendship to make a point that their life is more important.
Good luck to you and your friend, I hope she comes around.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Ksuan,
As someone already mentioned on your other thread “you are obsessed” with this girl. You are in codie overdrive!!!
I think you are twisting things in order to justify your own thoughts and feelings. What you are not understanding with the no contact, not going to a trial, etc. etc. is the part about self protection, emotional protection from people who’s behavior has hurt you. A boundary that is set to protect against further emotional and or physical abuse.
It's not all or nothing, it more of a healthy vs: un-heatlhy.
Codies never understand that because their objective is to fix, repair and control another person. Hiding behind being a nice, caring and giving person. A healthy person does not become this obsessed over someone he has only known for 5 short months and who has a drug history to boot.
As you said it’s a mute point as your friend is not talking to you so then why do you continue to obsessive over this, obsessive over her addiction, her court appearance, etc. etc.
Have you thought about seeking support for yourself via al-anon or codependency meetings?
As someone already mentioned on your other thread “you are obsessed” with this girl. You are in codie overdrive!!!
I think you are twisting things in order to justify your own thoughts and feelings. What you are not understanding with the no contact, not going to a trial, etc. etc. is the part about self protection, emotional protection from people who’s behavior has hurt you. A boundary that is set to protect against further emotional and or physical abuse.
It's not all or nothing, it more of a healthy vs: un-heatlhy.
Codies never understand that because their objective is to fix, repair and control another person. Hiding behind being a nice, caring and giving person. A healthy person does not become this obsessed over someone he has only known for 5 short months and who has a drug history to boot.
As you said it’s a mute point as your friend is not talking to you so then why do you continue to obsessive over this, obsessive over her addiction, her court appearance, etc. etc.
Have you thought about seeking support for yourself via al-anon or codependency meetings?
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Originally Posted by ksaun
Your not going to change them, you can't make them stop burping or making rude comments. You accept them for who they are at that point in their life.
I think when judges see family in court for someone with drug and alcohol related offenses they count the number of suckers the person has on the hook. Judges know all about addiction, and co-dependency believe me....Unless the person on trial is a minor child of yours I see no reason to be "supporting" someone on repeated drug offenses. I think they may likely get a harder sentence when there appears to be too much "support". Cause judges know a codie is going try and take charge of the addict/alcoholic and they want to see them taking responsibility for themselves.
Recovery is a lonely journey it is about learning to be responsible for oneself and actions. An addict who has one person who is willing to "be there" for them is not too likely to take recovery seriously. Believe me offering up prayers for them to find their way is truly the most good someone in your shoes has to offer. Unless you just want to learn the hard way what we who are trying to communicate with you are trying to tell you.
I know how easy an addict can suck someone in and the one who has hold of you seems to being a fine job of doing what addicts do... I truly hope you will take our word for it and get the hell away from the person in question.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I don't understand the thinking behind NOT going to a loved ones trial. Is this supposed to punish them further for her actions? To show them you don't approve of their drug use?
Why does it need to be all or nothing?
But if you have doubts about what you are doing for the addict in your life, then you should listen to those doubts. Trust your instincts.
Nothing we do - no amount of support, no amount of sympathy, no amount of yelling, no amount of acceptance. NOTHING we do will help get addict better. Because the only way an addict will get better is if they have to work hard and do it on their own.
If I choose no contact I do it because I need to distance myself in order to retain sanity in my life. I realized my life was becoming unmanagement because of my addiction to a person. Therefore I had to have no contact with that person in order to make my life manageable again. It's not about the addict. It's about me.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by Chino 
The short answer... if going to a trial or maintaining contact causes me to lose balance in my life, then I have stop doing it for my own well being.
In my recovery it is no longer about what is good for anyone else, or trying to control their life, it's about keeping myself healthy.
I cannot live in my recovery and my son's addiction at the same time. Since I cannot save him, I ask God to take care of him and then focus on living my life in a healthy productive way.
We all have choices, and what works for one may not work for another. But choosing what works for us personally, is always the right thing to do.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
It is not about the addict, it is about you. What you will or will not put up with. If you find having contact with her does not affect you then go ahead and have it. But something that you said about her not appreciating the things that you do for her gives me the impression that you are helping her because you expect something in return-her gratitude. That is something that you need to work on. If you have expectations with an addict, most likely you will end up with disappointment and resentment. They just don't operate that way. Hugs, Marle
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Let me tell you from the other side of the coin
My last trip to the gray bar hotel, no one would accept my collect calls to come bail me out
That, was one sobering eye opener.
This might sound harsh but, I've told my kids the same thing. You find yourself in jail, you figure out how to get out.
I might eventually get them out but, I feel they need to look around their surroundings in jail and decide is this the life I want for me.
I firmly believe for me to have sought help was to hit the worst bottom imaginable
This might not work for every one but, it damn sure worked for me
Everyone has their own bottoms. I've sat at rehabs listening to the residents talk about living in prison, jails, under railroad bridges etc. and several said, they don't know if, they hit their bottoms yet!!
Totally insane what some people will go thru in their lives over drugs and alcohol
A drunk and addict are the only people I know that, can look at someone else while living in an alley and say, they're not as sick as they are
I'll help those helping themselves period no exceptions
I won't be apart of their self destruction
My last trip to the gray bar hotel, no one would accept my collect calls to come bail me out
That, was one sobering eye opener.
This might sound harsh but, I've told my kids the same thing. You find yourself in jail, you figure out how to get out.
I might eventually get them out but, I feel they need to look around their surroundings in jail and decide is this the life I want for me.
I firmly believe for me to have sought help was to hit the worst bottom imaginable
This might not work for every one but, it damn sure worked for me
Everyone has their own bottoms. I've sat at rehabs listening to the residents talk about living in prison, jails, under railroad bridges etc. and several said, they don't know if, they hit their bottoms yet!!
Totally insane what some people will go thru in their lives over drugs and alcohol
A drunk and addict are the only people I know that, can look at someone else while living in an alley and say, they're not as sick as they are
I'll help those helping themselves period no exceptions
I won't be apart of their self destruction
"Taking the risk to blossom"
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: a little piece of heaven! Ontario Canada
Posts: 245
for me, it was simply a case of not wanting to put myself in that situation (sitting and watching my AH go to court for his 4th dui and being hauled to jail because of it AND missing a day of work AND sitting in a court room with people who I WORK WITH -- the crown, the police). Who would support ME through watching that?! It was also about the shame and embarassment of it all. Perhaps he should have got his "dealers" and "those friends" to support him.
I have my own reasons for not having any contact with my addicted loved one. Right now my AH is living downstairs and I'm living up (hopefully he will have an apartment soon) For me, it is simply too difficult to "be in contact with him". This is a man I have loved for 27 years with all my heart. I have tried everything to HELP HIM and have lost myself in the process. For me, it would be easy to be pulled in and go to the place of "look what your losing, look what you've done, how could you do this to us, how can you treat us like that etc etc". Any time we have had a conversation "of the heart", it becomes all about him (I'm really sick, I'm trying, I don't want to lose you, quack quack quack). If I stick to strictly "business at hand" I don't have to feel the sorrow of losing what we have (in front of him). It's just making it easier to fully let him feel what he has done and for me to deal with the reality of it all. Hopefully, he will move on and do what he has to do. I HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO HIS DISEASE by continually being pulled into his disease.
This is just me -- it's not necessarily like that for everyone. I, like my mother who taught me so well, wanted to "just hang on" until the kids where gone. I just about made it but can't take anymore. I have HIT MY BOTTOM.
I agree with Splendra that having a friend who "burps too loud" is no comparison to living with an addict or watching, helplessly, while someone you care about and love slowly self destructs. Especially when they're taking you with them.
that's just me
I have my own reasons for not having any contact with my addicted loved one. Right now my AH is living downstairs and I'm living up (hopefully he will have an apartment soon) For me, it is simply too difficult to "be in contact with him". This is a man I have loved for 27 years with all my heart. I have tried everything to HELP HIM and have lost myself in the process. For me, it would be easy to be pulled in and go to the place of "look what your losing, look what you've done, how could you do this to us, how can you treat us like that etc etc". Any time we have had a conversation "of the heart", it becomes all about him (I'm really sick, I'm trying, I don't want to lose you, quack quack quack). If I stick to strictly "business at hand" I don't have to feel the sorrow of losing what we have (in front of him). It's just making it easier to fully let him feel what he has done and for me to deal with the reality of it all. Hopefully, he will move on and do what he has to do. I HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO HIS DISEASE by continually being pulled into his disease.
This is just me -- it's not necessarily like that for everyone. I, like my mother who taught me so well, wanted to "just hang on" until the kids where gone. I just about made it but can't take anymore. I have HIT MY BOTTOM.
I agree with Splendra that having a friend who "burps too loud" is no comparison to living with an addict or watching, helplessly, while someone you care about and love slowly self destructs. Especially when they're taking you with them.
that's just me
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 692
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, in fact that kind of thinking is part of my problem I think.
Also do realize that we all do NOT think the same way on all things!! hey, I don't even necessary agree with myself on any given day!
I have contact with my AD, but these days its on my terms, not hers. there were several things I was very willing to do for her and with her a year ago that I am no longer willing to do - because doing these things resulted in unmanageabiility for me for the most part. I won't take her to her HIV clinic appointment any more even though I was very happy to do so before - but the last couple of times i wound up leaving in tears, from her verbal abuse and manipulation.
I do like to speak with her on the phone. I love to see her on holidays.
You do what works for you, within your own boundaries, which can not only take time to figure out, but can also change at any time. but just don't let the addict dictate the terms and conditions! It's up to you. what works for you.
Also do realize that we all do NOT think the same way on all things!! hey, I don't even necessary agree with myself on any given day!
I have contact with my AD, but these days its on my terms, not hers. there were several things I was very willing to do for her and with her a year ago that I am no longer willing to do - because doing these things resulted in unmanageabiility for me for the most part. I won't take her to her HIV clinic appointment any more even though I was very happy to do so before - but the last couple of times i wound up leaving in tears, from her verbal abuse and manipulation.
I do like to speak with her on the phone. I love to see her on holidays.
You do what works for you, within your own boundaries, which can not only take time to figure out, but can also change at any time. but just don't let the addict dictate the terms and conditions! It's up to you. what works for you.
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
Now this is a mute point for me as my friend Amie and I aren't talking and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. She just doesn't want to talk to me. She will sit there and listen and give short answers but its obvious she doesn't want to talk with me.
Some addicts are more abusive and apt to steal from you.
For me, Amie, never stole from me, and was not abusive
However she did not show any appreciation for what I was doing to "HELP" her. Even though she did say she appreciated it and thanked me. It would have been nice to have the appreciation showed in some way. But I digress.....
You have to let go of expectations of people... expectations are nothing but disapointments in the making.. the only thing you can expect from an addict is frustration, insanity and chaos..
It doesn't have to be all or nothing... but you do have to come to a point where you have to decide whats more important.. your serenity and peace of mind or insanity behavior with an addict who keeps doing the same things over and over again ...
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Originally Posted by cynical one
Finally, you say This is a personal decision, are you willing to settle for crumbs? Do all your other friendships or relationships require this much work?
that's just me
powerful post you made
friendship is a 50/50 deal should apply to relationships as well
"Then the man said, 'This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called Woman, for out of Man this one was taken'" (2:23).
How much can we read into the fact that Eve was made from Adam's rib? Matthew Henry wrote,
**** "She was not made out of his head to top him, nor out of his feet to be trampled on by him, but out of his side to be equal to him, under his arm to be protected and near his heart to be beloved." She is his missing part; together they can do what man alone couldn't. Their relationship is one of intimacy and vulnerability—they stand naked together and feel no shame.}}
So sad, the love of a drug or a drink stops us from having a healthy marriage
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
As has been said above the 'boundaries' are for you.
Well why do YOU need boundaries? Here is why.
I have been sober and clean almost 28 years now, but I work with many that are still practicing their particular affliction.
Here is the deal from when I was still 'practicing' and I believe Captain and others on here that are double winners will back me up:
The MORE kindness and friendship you (anyone) showed to me, the MORE I MANIPULATED to get whatever it was I NEEDED (money, housing, clothes, food, etc) at the moment, and eventually I SUCKED YOU DRY, and in the process made you think that you were going crazy. WHY? Because that is what 'addicts' do.
Usually boundaries end up being set, because the person setting them cannot take any more.
Some of us, in our codieism realize it sooner than others, and realize that 'boundaries' for our own sanity are very necessary including NO Contact.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Well why do YOU need boundaries? Here is why.
I have been sober and clean almost 28 years now, but I work with many that are still practicing their particular affliction.
Here is the deal from when I was still 'practicing' and I believe Captain and others on here that are double winners will back me up:
The MORE kindness and friendship you (anyone) showed to me, the MORE I MANIPULATED to get whatever it was I NEEDED (money, housing, clothes, food, etc) at the moment, and eventually I SUCKED YOU DRY, and in the process made you think that you were going crazy. WHY? Because that is what 'addicts' do.
Usually boundaries end up being set, because the person setting them cannot take any more.
Some of us, in our codieism realize it sooner than others, and realize that 'boundaries' for our own sanity are very necessary including NO Contact.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 74
Everything that you all said is true. I am in codie overdrive. She doesn't want to talk to me or want me in her life. And I am wasting my time worrying about her day and night.
As much as I hate to admit it I have lost myself in all this. I don't know how I got here, or why she means that much to me. I have alot of friends male and female that I wouldn't put up with behavior like Amie's.
So why did I accept it from her? I don't know really. With everyone else and every other aspect of my life I'm a call em like I see em kinda guy. And if you don't like it tuff noogies. So why was this person and situation sooo different? Maybe one of you can answer that, cause I can't. Sure she was cute and sweet and fun to be with and talk to. But so are my other friends. Why was she soo different?
BTW, the boundries I was speaking of were boundries for me, not for her. I'm going to start folloing the advice I have been getting all along. Just walk away, no looking back, no more excuses. Just go!
Thanks for telling it like it is and helping me to screw my head back on straight.
As much as I hate to admit it I have lost myself in all this. I don't know how I got here, or why she means that much to me. I have alot of friends male and female that I wouldn't put up with behavior like Amie's.
So why did I accept it from her? I don't know really. With everyone else and every other aspect of my life I'm a call em like I see em kinda guy. And if you don't like it tuff noogies. So why was this person and situation sooo different? Maybe one of you can answer that, cause I can't. Sure she was cute and sweet and fun to be with and talk to. But so are my other friends. Why was she soo different?
BTW, the boundries I was speaking of were boundries for me, not for her. I'm going to start folloing the advice I have been getting all along. Just walk away, no looking back, no more excuses. Just go!
Thanks for telling it like it is and helping me to screw my head back on straight.
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
Didn't get to read everything said above but lots of good stuff already said.
I did see Take what you will and leave the rest. Everyone's path is different.
My story is not everyone's story and everyone's story is not mine.
People share what worked for them.
You do what you are comfortable with, if it works you will keep doing it, if
it doesn't work eventually you'll learn and change.
As an ex meth user, I know we won't change until we are made to change.
If we don't lose things, if things don't start hurting us, then why would we
change. When we can have our cake and eat it too, then that is what we will
do.
You can still love someone, be there for them and let them know that, but let them know you won't be a part of their self destruction. If you want to help yourself I am
by your side, if you want to kill yourself I will not help you.
When someone takes themselves down, it is easy to get sucked in for the ride.
That's just how I see it. We all see it in our own way though.
:ghug
I did see Take what you will and leave the rest. Everyone's path is different.
My story is not everyone's story and everyone's story is not mine.
People share what worked for them.
You do what you are comfortable with, if it works you will keep doing it, if
it doesn't work eventually you'll learn and change.
As an ex meth user, I know we won't change until we are made to change.
If we don't lose things, if things don't start hurting us, then why would we
change. When we can have our cake and eat it too, then that is what we will
do.
You can still love someone, be there for them and let them know that, but let them know you won't be a part of their self destruction. If you want to help yourself I am
by your side, if you want to kill yourself I will not help you.
When someone takes themselves down, it is easy to get sucked in for the ride.
That's just how I see it. We all see it in our own way though.
:ghug
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
As much as I hate to admit it I have lost myself in all this.
Stick around, keep reading and posting and if possible, maybe find your way to a live meeting of Al-Anon, Naranon or CoDA. These meetings will help you figure out how and why this happened, and will teach you healthy ways to take care of yourself so that you never get lost again.
Hugs
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