Finally - some clarity ... but should I share it?
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Finally - some clarity ... but should I share it?
Thanks to GiveLove for directing me to the CLASSIC READING section. It really is classic and I'm so glad that I found Why Do I Need Help? He's the Alcoholic!
Thirteen years ago, I bought a house with the A and we moved in together. He had 3 pre-teen daughters at the time, who went back and forth between us and their mother. We got along famously when they were young, but it became apparent to me that the A wanted me to be the bridge between him and them. I was to carry out his bidding, to make sure they were happy on all the special occasions, etc.. I was to spend the time with them, and be their friend (which I was), while he worked hard during the day and became terribly inebriated every single night.
I was the scapegoat enabler, yet - like the frog in the boiling water - I didn't realize that it was getting hotter. I would spend hours listening to him bashing his kids, his ex-wives, and me as well. When he was sober, he'd know he'd done something wrong but couldn't remember what and would usually try to make it up to me. He'd do great things for all of us, and come across as being such a nice guy, yet he'd ruin it again the next night (at least with me). He'd praise me for being so good with his girls, because he really couldn't communicate with them, except when he was drunk but they got tired of his demands of their attention. He'd tell me how much they loved me.
Fast forward to where the girls became young adults, and understood the dynamic of what was really happening. I WAS THE BAD GUY! I was the enabler who kept their father drinking. Everything was my fault. I had to make the decisions, and I made plenty of mistakes. Like in the article, I wasn't predictable, where the A was. I certainly wasn't their real mother (and expendable), and I started to feel their resentment. They had NO respect for me, because I stayed with their father through the abuse (and I understand that).
They also didn't want me to discuss what his drinking was doing to me (and all of us). They thought that if I didn't like it - then I should leave. They saw it as my bashing their father. I tried to point out that he had no right to be abusive to any of us, but all they heard was that I was blaming him and they needed to defend him. Every time I'd find him a place to live (and try to separate us), they'd think he was doing better without me, but he was drinking just as much or more and womanizing. He was also keeping me very much in the picture. He just lied and covered it up.
I had a blowup with one of his daughters, because she'd started treating me as though I was a loser and even though I understood that I now seemed like one, it felt hurtful. I just felt terrible that I'd put all of my effort into making her childhood as happy as it could be (also making up for her own mother's emotional unavailability), and took the brunt of his alcoholic rages that may have been directed at her, had I not been the scapegoat, and that she was now treating me with such disrespect.
Now - after the blowup - 2 of his 3 daughters don't like me and don't want anything to do with me. They live near their mother now and I've heard she refers to me as a 'bimbo'. IT IS ALL MY FAULT and their father is a wonderful guy - just an alcoholic because he needs to get away from me.
Sorry this is so long but I had an urge to send them that post, so that for once they may be able to understand what I went through to buffer their discomfort. I know it was codependent. I take responsibility for my mistakes. I just wish I could help them understand, from my perspective, since I know they don't. I know they are in denial of the lying, alcoholic cheat their father really is, and it's hard for me to accept that they can deal with it, because they have me to blame.
I don't expect that they should like me again. I really laid into that daughter (with good reason) and I was so angry - I saw red. I lost it, which I'd never done before that, and I know I shocked her. She came back in a message and told me what a loser she thought I'd become.
Would it be stupid to send them that post? It describes exactly how I feel and what I went through. It explains - in words that I couldn't - why I just became so depleted and reacted the way I did in the end.
Thirteen years ago, I bought a house with the A and we moved in together. He had 3 pre-teen daughters at the time, who went back and forth between us and their mother. We got along famously when they were young, but it became apparent to me that the A wanted me to be the bridge between him and them. I was to carry out his bidding, to make sure they were happy on all the special occasions, etc.. I was to spend the time with them, and be their friend (which I was), while he worked hard during the day and became terribly inebriated every single night.
I was the scapegoat enabler, yet - like the frog in the boiling water - I didn't realize that it was getting hotter. I would spend hours listening to him bashing his kids, his ex-wives, and me as well. When he was sober, he'd know he'd done something wrong but couldn't remember what and would usually try to make it up to me. He'd do great things for all of us, and come across as being such a nice guy, yet he'd ruin it again the next night (at least with me). He'd praise me for being so good with his girls, because he really couldn't communicate with them, except when he was drunk but they got tired of his demands of their attention. He'd tell me how much they loved me.
Fast forward to where the girls became young adults, and understood the dynamic of what was really happening. I WAS THE BAD GUY! I was the enabler who kept their father drinking. Everything was my fault. I had to make the decisions, and I made plenty of mistakes. Like in the article, I wasn't predictable, where the A was. I certainly wasn't their real mother (and expendable), and I started to feel their resentment. They had NO respect for me, because I stayed with their father through the abuse (and I understand that).
They also didn't want me to discuss what his drinking was doing to me (and all of us). They thought that if I didn't like it - then I should leave. They saw it as my bashing their father. I tried to point out that he had no right to be abusive to any of us, but all they heard was that I was blaming him and they needed to defend him. Every time I'd find him a place to live (and try to separate us), they'd think he was doing better without me, but he was drinking just as much or more and womanizing. He was also keeping me very much in the picture. He just lied and covered it up.
I had a blowup with one of his daughters, because she'd started treating me as though I was a loser and even though I understood that I now seemed like one, it felt hurtful. I just felt terrible that I'd put all of my effort into making her childhood as happy as it could be (also making up for her own mother's emotional unavailability), and took the brunt of his alcoholic rages that may have been directed at her, had I not been the scapegoat, and that she was now treating me with such disrespect.
Now - after the blowup - 2 of his 3 daughters don't like me and don't want anything to do with me. They live near their mother now and I've heard she refers to me as a 'bimbo'. IT IS ALL MY FAULT and their father is a wonderful guy - just an alcoholic because he needs to get away from me.
Sorry this is so long but I had an urge to send them that post, so that for once they may be able to understand what I went through to buffer their discomfort. I know it was codependent. I take responsibility for my mistakes. I just wish I could help them understand, from my perspective, since I know they don't. I know they are in denial of the lying, alcoholic cheat their father really is, and it's hard for me to accept that they can deal with it, because they have me to blame.
I don't expect that they should like me again. I really laid into that daughter (with good reason) and I was so angry - I saw red. I lost it, which I'd never done before that, and I know I shocked her. She came back in a message and told me what a loser she thought I'd become.
Would it be stupid to send them that post? It describes exactly how I feel and what I went through. It explains - in words that I couldn't - why I just became so depleted and reacted the way I did in the end.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
They have likely learned though the years that words are impotent. The most powerful thing is what actually HAPPENS. If you focus on being transparent, showing that you have learned from your mistakes and have gone forward to heal and become a healthy person, this will become apparent to them in their own time. And they will only "get the message" in THEIR own time. Anything else is you trying to control their reactions, which is codependency at its best.
I have to double and triple check myself all the time for what I'm doing, and what my motives are. It's very hard to focus only on oneself.
CLMI
I have to double and triple check myself all the time for what I'm doing, and what my motives are. It's very hard to focus only on oneself.
CLMI
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Personally I feel that if you 'really laid into "that" daughter' with anger you might not want to try to justify why you acted like that.
Was that appropriate behavior?
Tough situation, alcohol can really screw up a household.
Was that appropriate behavior?
Tough situation, alcohol can really screw up a household.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
My xAHs daughters also have decided I am the evil one, the cause of all their father's problems. During the 4 years we were married and living together I was verbally abused by his daughters anytime I tried to set reasonable rules (the same rules I had for my sons), anytime I tried to deal with their father's drunkenness. I was blamed for his drinking. I was blamed for not stopping his drinking. I was blamed for him not having a job. I was blamed for him not doing anything. I was blamed for not being in control and for trying to take control.
They are not capable at this point in time (ages 16, 18 and 21 now) of facing the dysfunctional nature of their relationship with their father (and mother actually) and feel comfortable using me as a scape goat. That's ok. It doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I hope that someday they will see their family without the filter of the natural love they have for xAH and their mother. I pray they will deal with the many issues they have because they grew up with alcoholic (and in the case of their mother, drug using) parents. It took me a very long time to deal with my issues from my alcoholic parents.
It is unlikely that my or your step daughters would "listen" to anything either of us said. My perspective is not welcome and would only be twisted to fit whatever perspective they want/need to hold right now.
They are not capable at this point in time (ages 16, 18 and 21 now) of facing the dysfunctional nature of their relationship with their father (and mother actually) and feel comfortable using me as a scape goat. That's ok. It doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I hope that someday they will see their family without the filter of the natural love they have for xAH and their mother. I pray they will deal with the many issues they have because they grew up with alcoholic (and in the case of their mother, drug using) parents. It took me a very long time to deal with my issues from my alcoholic parents.
It is unlikely that my or your step daughters would "listen" to anything either of us said. My perspective is not welcome and would only be twisted to fit whatever perspective they want/need to hold right now.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 46
Yes CatLover - words have become impotent - at least MY words, and that is why I feel they might be able to see something, if it came from somewhere else. And I must concede that it is just a perpetuation of the codependent nature I truly want to end. I just don't know how to deal with being the hated one for this whole mess.
No TommyK - I cannot justify my screaming and how I reacted to her shattering her father's whiskey glass into a thousand pieces and putting a huge gouge in my floor, and not caring who would pick up those pieces or pay for that repair. It is much larger than that. It is my seeking of the truth about the underlying reason of what REALLY brought us to this boiling point and wanting to fully understand, myself, and then to share the true dynamics of what was really happening - to all of us.
Initially she WAS mad at her father, but I just went into my scapegoat mode, once again, but this time I blew my lid! Sadly, the lesson that I learned from all of this was that if you're not a blood relative, you never get a second chance, but the alcoholic behind the dissention in all of this will get many, many more.
No TommyK - I cannot justify my screaming and how I reacted to her shattering her father's whiskey glass into a thousand pieces and putting a huge gouge in my floor, and not caring who would pick up those pieces or pay for that repair. It is much larger than that. It is my seeking of the truth about the underlying reason of what REALLY brought us to this boiling point and wanting to fully understand, myself, and then to share the true dynamics of what was really happening - to all of us.
Initially she WAS mad at her father, but I just went into my scapegoat mode, once again, but this time I blew my lid! Sadly, the lesson that I learned from all of this was that if you're not a blood relative, you never get a second chance, but the alcoholic behind the dissention in all of this will get many, many more.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I was raised in a household with an alcoholic father and a codepedent mother. My mother's actions and reactions cause me a lot more damage than my father's drinking. To this day, she can't understand why I don't want to have a relationship with her. She is still the victim. If she were to send me something in an attempt to "justify" her behavior, it would not help the situation in the least. If she were to send me a heartfelt apology in which she acknowledged the damages she inflicted, I would listen. But, it would have to be followed up by action--true change on her part--before I would believe it.
What is your motive? Are you attempting to excuse your behavior by laying blame on the alcoholic? Or are you truly ready to admit the pain you caused by your own behavior and really make amends? The first will likely make the situation worse. The second will require big changes in the form of action on your part. Are you ready to do that?
L
What is your motive? Are you attempting to excuse your behavior by laying blame on the alcoholic? Or are you truly ready to admit the pain you caused by your own behavior and really make amends? The first will likely make the situation worse. The second will require big changes in the form of action on your part. Are you ready to do that?
L
Life is what you make of it
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Finding MY way in Ohio
Posts: 90
dazed,
Blood is ALWAYS thicker than water. I have learned that the hard way. I have a hard time too as I am raising my step son and have for the last 10 years. My AH side all hate me because AH is a GREAT guy who works, doesnt cheat on me, Provides for ALL of our things (I work too mind you), but I'm the BIaTCH that is leaving him for drinking a few beers! Hell, I'm the one that caused HIS DUI!!! CUZ I LET him drive, HA! Well, ya know what- They can think whatever they want. I have come to realize that the entire family will come together to maintain the status quo and you are the one rockin the boat.
As hard as it was for me (codie) I accepted, that I COULDNT change how or what they though of me, just go about getting myself happier and healthier. I never replied to an email that my SIL sent to me blaming me for EVERYTHING, as hard as it was, but I felt so much better for ME for not going there.
Keep moving in the right direction!!!
Blood is ALWAYS thicker than water. I have learned that the hard way. I have a hard time too as I am raising my step son and have for the last 10 years. My AH side all hate me because AH is a GREAT guy who works, doesnt cheat on me, Provides for ALL of our things (I work too mind you), but I'm the BIaTCH that is leaving him for drinking a few beers! Hell, I'm the one that caused HIS DUI!!! CUZ I LET him drive, HA! Well, ya know what- They can think whatever they want. I have come to realize that the entire family will come together to maintain the status quo and you are the one rockin the boat.
As hard as it was for me (codie) I accepted, that I COULDNT change how or what they though of me, just go about getting myself happier and healthier. I never replied to an email that my SIL sent to me blaming me for EVERYTHING, as hard as it was, but I felt so much better for ME for not going there.
Keep moving in the right direction!!!
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
What is your motive? Are you attempting to excuse your behavior by laying blame on the alcoholic? L
I'm not disagreeing that this is how I am perceived but I'm just trying to get this straight. So I set myself up in a lose/lose situation. I became a loser. I deserved what I got because I didn't 'get out of that boiling water' even though by the time I realized it was boiling, I didn't have the strength to. When I finally found my voice, I was resented even more and now I'm supposed to apologize for my behavior? Hmmm ... that's about as humbling as it gets.
Suffice it to say that I'm realizing that 'the road to hell IS paved with good intentions' and that term may have been coined regarding what happens during codependence. Well - I've been there and am working on finding my way back.
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IMHO, apologizing for your behavior can come later, if at all. Learning about and understanding yourself is an important first step. We all do the best we can until we learn something better. Owning the responsibility for my own behavior was not easy. It's taken a long time. Forgiving myself has taken even longer. That's what is meant by "work on yourself." So, I would suggest holding off on broadcasting your insight to others in an attempt to "show" them. Instead, take the time to work through it yourself. When, or if, the time is right to share what you have learned, the opportunity will present itself.
L
L
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Great post! Just what I needed to learn today. Amen.
Dazednconfused, please post your process on this going forward.
It is incredibly helpful to hear the very same questions swirling in my head being discussed this way.
Dazednconfused, please post your process on this going forward.
It is incredibly helpful to hear the very same questions swirling in my head being discussed this way.
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