timetogo

Hi everyone -- I am still living the ongoing saga of relationship ambivalence at the moment!

My AH's pattern has always been to binge and not come home (leaving the kids and I to wonder where he is, full of anxiety, etc.). Usually every six to eight weeks but lately it has been at least every 2 weeks. His newest thing is to binge and come home in all his glory -- which is to say the least, not attractive at all and very disruptive to our household. He then denies it the next morning! It is like a "in your face" type of behaviour. We both agree that our relationship is over, yet he does things like asks the kids if they really want him to leave and accuses me of kicking him out of our home.

He is digging his heals in, saying things like -- it's my house, I'm not leaving -- I will come home when I want and in the condition I want - quack, quack , quack. I just want him to leave -- doesn't have to be forever, I'm not vendictive, I'm not going to try to ruin him -- I just want some peace. If I could leave, I would. I have dogs and nobody in my area will rent anything when you have animals (against the law but they still refuse to rent to you!) and these animals mean EVERYTHING to the kids and I -- they ARE family members and I worry he will not care for them properly. Not to mention, I don't trust that he will pay the mortgage and I can't afford to pay both the mortgage and rental. To top everything off, he has stopped giving me money (he did pay the mortgage -- which he will have to pay in regards to support if he leaves). So he contributes to none of the other expenses in the household, including food. So he is still doing what he wants, coming and going as he pleases and coming home to a nice cushy, warm, full of food house. I don't do these things FOR HIM, I do them for myself and my girls -- he is just helping himself to them.

So my question..............I'm sure others have dealt with this kind of "stubborness". What is your experience, how long did you put up with it, was there a time they were willing to "negotiate". I wish I could just say **** you and leave, but I want to salvage what I have left in my home. He has already "drugged and drank" away most of our savings, and our kids education money. Why can't he see that we deserve, at the least, for him to move on.

ttg

FormerDoormat

It's hard to find a place that will take pets, but it's not impossible. I, too, think of my dogs as family and giving them up or leaving them behind is never an option. It takes extra work to find a place that will allow them, but I once rented an apartment with two large labradors that initially said no pets allowed. I spoke with the apartment manager, explained my situation, and told him my pets were well trained, well behaved, and perfectly housebroken. Eventually he agreed to rent the apartment to me.

You may have more luck renting a condominium from an owner than renting an apartment run by a leasing company. It's worth a shot.

hello-kitty

Tough call - protecting my kids from the extremely negative effects of a disruptive drunk father who chooses drugs and alcohol over his children or my dogs.

My choice would be get the kids to a safe stable environment first and then worry about the dogs.

tommyk

As much as we don't like it... it is his house too right?

You really choose the dogs welfare over a safer environment for you and your kids? Wow.

No offense... but seriously - carefully read over what you wrote, and read it from an objective perspective.

Keep coming back.

drained22

I think current alcoholics are in their own world.. they defend their addiction and can't make any logical decisions..

FormerDoormat's quote is good advice ..""The bare minimum my partner needs to give me is 100%."--Wpgwoman

timetogo

Thank you all for your posts. Sorry this is kind of a long reply.

I really do know how some people don't understand the connection that we can have to animals. I never understood it myself until I got THIS particular dog. For those of you who love your pets like family, you will know what I mean.


"No offense... but seriously - carefully read over what you wrote, and read it from an objective perspective."

I did reread my post and did not mean to sound like I would ever put my dogs above my kids -- they are only one of the factors in the equation. My kids are almost adults (one is), and well adjusted, thriving young women -- I think I have done a good job of raising strong young women given the situation that has become ours (it was not always like this and for the most part, I kept them sheltered from it until about 5 years ago -- and I've talked to them about that). As young adults, they are often not home to witness the goings on. We do have many conversations, they are in counselling, etc etc. and they have good support from friends and family members. I was raised in an alcoholic home myself and I KNOW FOR A FACT that I certainly did not get the same upbringing as my children have. In saying that, I'm sure that somewhere down the road, I will regret not leaving sooner.

As I said, it is not simply about the dogs -- it is about having equity in my home and wanting to buy another (rent where I live is more than a mortgage -- seriously -- but impossible without a down payment). It's about my fear -- I have NEVER lived by myself and my youngest will only be around for another year or so. It is about being judged (I have a fairly high profile job in my community working with courts, crown attorneys and police as well as abused women -- go figure!). It is about being broke (I have never been broke and it scares me). It's about losing my husband's family who are really the only family I have known since I was sixteen (I know they will always be my family and support me but I know it will never be the same). It's about being alone (I know, I'm alone now). It's about the good things in my husband (the bad outweigh the good right now). It's about ever thinking of a new relationships (I haven't been with anybody else since I was about 20 when we broke up for a few months). It's about being able to send my girls to school. It is about embarrassment and shame. It is about not being able to make a decision. It is about being afraid to make a mistake. It is about all the memories that were really good (I know, all of this is codependent behaviour). It is about the extreme pain I am feeling right now(I could make the pain go away by avoiding and denying before but that's not working any more). I'm sure I am forgetting some at the moment.

As it can be in life, it's so complicated. Especially unravelling 20 years. One of the things I want so desperately to work on is not being able to focus on just one thing at a time. When I think about all these things at once, I get so overwhelmed.

So as you can see, it simply isn't "just about the dogs"
ttg

kj3880

You don't have to leave. Go to domestic court and cite his drunken, dangerous behavior as grounds for a temporary ex-parte. The police will serve him with it and escort him from the house. Easy to get in most places. Even easier if he threatens or hits anyone, including pets. But still, the open drunkenness around your kids is enough. List anything dangerous he does before you go to remember, like driving (with or without the kids), leaving on the stove or coffee pot while drunk when you and the kids are sleeping, etc. Cursing and swearing, slamming things around, can be considered threatening to children. I did this, got an ex-parte. Possession is nine tenths of the law. He will have a hard time getting back in there.

KJ

timetogo

Hi KJ -- thanks for your post. I don't want to leave MY home -- why should I have to go when he has destroyed it? I am almost to the point to involve the courts. As I said in my previous post, I work within this system and help women with it all the time. That's what makes it more difficult for me, because I know and work with all the people involved -- it is a small town, etc. It's the embarrassment and shame. We don't have domestic courts here, only family court to deal with these issues and it takes literally months to get through the system -- it's criminal really. But I certainly will begin to look into what I can do legally through a lawyer.

thanks for your experience and thoughts
ttg

hello-kitty

Have you ever read Codependent No More or have you heard of Alanon meetings? Both might be really good resources for you to help you figure out what you are going to do next for you.

You don't have to leave your husband to detach from his problems, if that is what you want. If your not ready to leave, that's ok.

And welcome by the way. You will find lots of wonderful support here on this website. Keep reading and posting.

blessed4x

ttg.........I completely understand where you are coming from. I've got 21 years invested. I went to dinner with several of my high school friends I keep in touch with and 1 is divorced from an alcoholic/addict. She listened to my "update" from our last dinner out a few months ago, and she said to me "You haven't quit hoping that he'll change yet, have you?" Now I'm sure people on this board have said that very thing to me, but it must have been the right time for me to hear it. I'm wondering if you are in the same place?

They were horrified at some of his behaviors, things I have come to believe are "normal". They assured me they are NOT normal, and that even though he has never raised a hand to me or the kids he most definately is abusive. They gave me validation that I'm not crazy, people won't think I'm making this all up, and that they will love me and support me in any way I need. My fear of abandonment has been, at least for tonight, relieved. I'm praying that you can connect face to face with some people who will embrace you and offer you that support you need as well.

timetogo

Hello Hello Kitty

I have read the book a number of years ago and need to reread it again (trying to get a copy from the library but it's out!!)

I did go to alanon four years ago after AH was charged with dui for the 4th time and I had asked him to leave then -- he finally reluctantly did but hated me for it and still does. At the time, he went to rehab and AA and was a "new person" so I let him back in. It only lasted for about six months and then gradually got worse and worse. He also has a very expensive problem with cocaine which has changed him immensly.

I loved my meeting and found great strength there. But then my role with my job changed and all of a sudden, there were clients of our agency at the meetings. It felt very conflicting. To avoid this, I see my only option as travelling 45 minutes to another town and I haven't got there yet. I did start my own counselling last week but don't like her. I will keep going to give her a chance however. I do have a very close knit family at work but haven't felt strong enough to tell them about this yet. You see, four years ago, they supported me and helped me be strong. When I decided to let AH back into my life, they supported that decision but I always felt they knew it was the wrong one (as I did deep down inside).

I want to be rid of this relationship once and for all, I'm simply struggling as to the best way to do it. I'm not used to having to make choices of this magnitude all on my own.
ttg

LaTeeDa

When I stayed with my husband, I told myself all kinds of things. All the reasons I stayed were not real reasons, they were justifications. I wasn't ready to leave until I was ready. But, admitting that my "reasons" were bogus helped me look at reality.

For example, in your last post you cited all kinds of reasons why you can't leave because you don't want to lose the money he contributes. But, in the original post you said:

So, it seems to me that cutting your losses make much more sense than staying longer while he continues to fritter away whatever marital assets you have left. How much better off financially will you be a year from now if things continue to go the way they have been?

Also, it's not impossible to find a place to live that takes pets. It is more difficult, but not impossible. But, by telling yourself it's impossible, you give yourself an excuse not to try.

I could go down your whole list of reasons and point out there is more than one side to each arguement. And, in most cases, there's more than just two sides. One of the things that helped me immensely, was learning how to avoid black/white, all/nothing, right/wrong type thinking. There is a huge world of grey between the black and white. I was missing it before, now it's where I spend most of my life. And things are so much better.

L

timetogo

Thanks so much blessed -- I too have a good friend who has just come out of a 20 year relationship -- not for addiction however. She says she doesn't regret the decision one bit but I find her to be bitter and sad. I think that the hope he will change is now gone and I need to move on, but as you said, it is a very big investment indeed. It didn't happen overnight and my decision won't as well -- it's just painful, so painful. I do know what I'm living is not normal. It's just so horribly unfair.
ttg

GiveLove

Don't take this the wrong way but.....in the interests of moving the legal system to force him to leave....can you call him in to the police when you know he's drunk and driving? If he kills someone, you can kiss any equity in your house goodbye anyway. And if he gets pulled over yet again, you may have grounds to have him evicted from the house while you initiate divorce proceedings. He is a danger to you, to your kids, and to the public at large.

Deal with your fears first, ttg. THEY are what's keeping you there and whispering to you that there's no possible way you can have what you want. THEY are generating all of these incredibly bleak, black-and-white scenarios that you're convinced stand in your way. But I think you know that.

You are not going to get any less broke, any less alone, or any less unhappy by continuing on like this. Please step back and try to see that your imagined fears are NOTHING compared to the nightmare you're living in right now.

timetogo

Thank you LaTeeDah -- you are one of the "posters" that I read often because I know that you are where I hope to be some day. You are exactly right that financially, his addiction is ruining us. And as I wrote and reread my post, I know that some of these "reasons" are fear based and, you nailed it, black and white thinking.

I have so much work to do
ttg

timetogo

Hi GL -- my AH doesn't have a license to date and cannot drive and has not access to our vehicles so hopefully, that scenario will not materialize.

"Deal with your fears first, ttg. THEY are what's keeping you there and whispering to you that there's no possible way you can have what you want. THEY are generating all of these incredibly bleak, black-and-white scenarios that you're convinced stand in your way. But I think you know that.

You are not going to get any less broke, any less alone, or any less unhappy by continuing on like this. Please step back and try to see that your imagined fears are NOTHING compared to the nightmare you're living in right now."

You are so right -- I so need to hear these types of things right now -- gives me motivations (yet are such simple insights!). I tell clients this type of thing all the time but have a hard time applying it to my own life. Is this part of the "waiting for the next shoe to drop" type of thinking?

freya

OK, timetogo, you are talking about reasoning and then you ask if there is any way to reason with "the unreasonable." Just look at the sentence and think about what the words in the sentence mean! The answer is "NO!".......I'm sorry, but, really, this is like asking if there's any way to fit a square peg into a round hole....You are talking here about reason -- which means rationality -- and an active A is not rational, at least not insofar as anything related to the protection or furtherance of his addiction goes. People who are not rational are not susceptible to reason. The equation just doesn't work -- no way, no how -- and the fact that you are trying to make it work, means that you "have caught" his insanity.

Furthermore, as long as you continue to attempt to reason with him, he's got you, and he's got your number, and he'll play it for everything it's worth...and you can bet that, on some level, he (or, at least his disease) knows this very, very well.

I know this for an absolute fact because this was my insanity -- trapped in the unending attempt to reason with an irrational person. Now, of course, I didn't know at the time that she was irrational. I figured, I met her when she was going back to school; she was smart; she could write great papers and formulate great arguments; h*ll, she was a 4.0 Phi Theta Kappa! How could she be irrational????? Here's how:

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

Please, please, please, do yourself a huge favor and stop your part of the insanity now!

freya

steve11694

sorry to sound like a lawyer but DOCUMENT his addiction(s) and behaviors as much as you can. eg;many cell phones can shoot video. video him drunk coming home and acting the way you describe.
the court does have the power to mandate treatment, especially if there is any DUI

embraced2000

is there any reasoning with the unreasonable?........nope.